Hey, since you like amalgums so much, why don't you try the Al\Hg nitromethane reduction. It is quicker and more reliable than the lueckart, plus yeilds are around 81% return from MD-P2P. And the product will be pretty clean. Plus you don't need methylamine. In the reduction nitromethane gets changed to methylamine, then reacts with the MD-P2P. So it is like producing methylamine and MDMA all in the same reaction! I think this is the way I will use for me from now on! Screw the Lueckart.

[This message has been edited by madchemist (edited 10-07-2000).]

Whatsup, brotha. Thanks for the tip. Do you have a link for that? Thanx man, as always your help is greatly appreciated.

It's not that I like any certain method, I am so brand new to this it isn't funny. I have just been reading the PHIKAL synth #109 & #110. But I just got Total Sythesis II by Strike and that has alot of methods in there, but I have not finished it yet. I mean, I just spent a few months reading books such as PHIKAL, Organic Chem Lab Survival Man, and all of Uncle Fester's and then I went out and spent about $4000.00 plus on supplies, equip. and chems. I didn't mean to brag, but I am just searching for the best method available that will give me the best quality and the best quanity, so I don't want anyone to think that I have some chincy setup and shit! Even if it's a pain in the ass, I don't mind, I have a little ambition & determination. Ya know! All I am waiting for is my vacuum pump. This baby supposedly cranks up .1 torr. I think thats good? But, yea...send me the link for that synth...I have been printing all the synth's that I get online trying to analize the for the best method, but the shit does make my head spin out of f**kin control. I mean, all of the different methods and which one to choose is driving me crazy. That's why I haven't been on the forums lately...had to take a little brain break!!! Been staying up til like 3 or 5 am just reading (bein' a madchemist)...burning cells. Had to take a break...I dunno how you guys do it...but then again most of you are fairly experienced. This shit is so new to me.

Hopefully when the pump comes in I should have figured out what route to take. Anyway, thanx for the tip man. Oh, how about eleusis' method's? They seem to fair very well...what do you think?

Riddle: (hey, not everyone can figure it out)

If an electric train is traveling south, but the wind is blowing north, which way is the smoke blowing?

PS. Did anyone hear that the FDA or the DEA is starting to put a ban on Sassafrass Oil? My friend, who owns a little head/wicca shop went to order some for me and her distributor said that she didn't carry it anymore because the DEA or some shit said she couldn't. Said people where calling her all the way from mexico for the stuff????
She found someone else, but....it'd really suck if this was true!!!

PSS. Is there any way to post pic's on this forum????

Quote: "Nine-Tenths of wisdom consists in being wise in time," --> Theodore Roosevelt.

My Secret / High Expectations

My eye's are always awake,
Observing the oddities of the human race.
But those nervous eye's turn blank as I
Plunge into a realm of my immagination,
I and the sea become one...riding the earth...
Into the sky...to the laugh in the face of the supuercilous, supercilous, supercilous sun. I smile secretively knowing that another world lies within me.

kpjr

NY Hardcore!! (DFL)

Sorry guys I know I got a little out of control with the quotes and shit, but I went to a show tonight and I'm a little pumped.


[This message has been edited by kpjr (edited 10-07-2000).]

[This message has been edited by kpjr (edited 10-07-2000).]

[This message has been edited by kpjr (edited 10-07-2000).]

[This message has been edited by kpjr (edited 10-07-2000).]

I haven't tried this synthesis yet, but I am working on it (I have to re-up a few things first). Here is the link: http://rhodium.lycaeum.org/clandestine/gonzo/index.html
I am writing up the specifics for this, but that link should pretty much tell it all.

Oh yeah, and electric trains don't have any smoke. So the smoke isn't blowing anywhere.

Hey, you shouldn't have answered that. It would've been funny to see what some said. Butt head. (laughs) thanx for the link.

Here's another: (follow the steps)

1) Pick a number one through ten.
2) Add 23 to that number.
3) Now add 8 to that number.
4) Subtract 2 from that number.
5) Now add 13 to that number.
6) Finally subtract your original number...

Is the final product 42 ???!!!

^ (try this on some people...most can't get it)

You can look into a mirror and learn about yourself, or you can look through a window and learn about the world!

Carpi Diem

kpjr

Dear Madchemist:

Also, what would you consider the best way to make safrole into isosafrole? (for reference)I have eleusis' method!

"If we take science as our soul guide, if we accept and hold fast that alone which is verifiable, the old theology must go." --> John Burroughs.



[This message has been edited by kpjr (edited 10-08-2000).]

Wow...that really is a nice link. Okay...I see the ease of making it with the AL/Hg method. PHIKAL you need 53 grams MDP-2-P to make 42 grams MDMA and with the Al/Hg Nitromethane method you need 25 grams MDP-2-P to make 19.6 grams (approx) of MDMA. Both are about equal, but the latter of the two methods is so much easier and less time consuming. Furthermore the use of Methylamine is not needed. Okay...I think I see. Am I right?

thanx again.

[This message has been edited by kpjr (edited 10-08-2000).]

[This message has been edited by kpjr (edited 10-08-2000).]

Would it be feesible to convert safrole to MDP-2-P (from your earlier post) and then use the Nitromethane Al/Hg synth? The only reason why I ask is when you posted me that synth (safrole to MDP-2-P), at the end you said that the oily layer is a "pretty pure form of MDP-2-P???? Does that mean that there are some impurities that will effect any further processes? What is the percentage yield of safrole to MDP-2-P?

Also, concerning Zwitterion's improved way to make MDMA...apparently, this guy uses Dr. Shulgin's #109 Al/Hg method half way through, up to where Dr. Shulgin strips off all the alchol and amine under vacuum, and right before he suspends the residue in 2400ml of H2O. At this point, instead of suspending the residue in 2400ml H2O, Zwitterion washes the two-phase mixture with an equal volume of water to rid the oil of salt. He back extracts the wash water with methylene chloride to get any carried over MDMA oil, then combines the back extract with the washed freebase oil. Strips off the methylene under vacuum, then adds the crude oil to twice it's volume of 91% (or anhydrous) isopropyl alcohol. Then he adds anough HCI until pH is less than 2. Pours the solution out in a thin pool on glass or ceramic plates and heats on a steam bath for about 10 minutes for each plate. Sets the plates aside to cool and once at room tempature (some crystallization should be occurring by now) he starts scraping around the plate, with some healthy chopping motions here and there (called "triturating" I guess). Crystals supposedly come to life, scrape all the crystals into a suitable container and then cover with twice the volume of acetone. Stir, swirl and chop well., then decant off the acetone. He repeats on more wash then sets the crystals out on a plate to dry.

At this point Zwitterion states, "I have found that one normally gets an amount of MDMA*HCI in grams equal to or slightly higher than the amount of MDP-2-P used in the first place." Does this sound correct to anyone????

Zwitterion also says earlier in this synth that he combined Pihkal #109 and the HCI Bubbling way, so to avoid the awful step in Shulgin's method where he adds the freebase oil/salt mix into 2 liters of water. This, he states, "is an OBVIOUS killer on yield, and there are such better ways to get rid of the major impurities."

If this is the case, then doesn't it seem feesible to systhesis safrole to MDP-2-P from the method that you posted to me weeks ago...then start with PIHKAL's #109 method...step that half way through and finish with Zwitterions method?

I need help here...anyone?


Thanx in advance!!!

[This message has been edited by kpjr (edited 10-08-2000).]

1-I saw a riddle like that one before, except it used words also. It works out mathematically so that no matter what number you picked it all works out.

2-I think converting the safrole to propyl and then oxidising it to piperonylacetone is best for me. Because it is easy. But you have to be careful because the propyl can easily turn into MD-P1Pol, which is useless. I understand that you have all this money to screw around with, but I don't. So I go the way that is the cheapest and easiest (you should see my lab, pratically evrything in it is homemade, I never thought I saw so many applesuace jars in my life). Go whatever way floats your boat.

3-Okay, lets break this down. I know the yeilds are supposed to be expressed in terms of moles, but I do not know the molecular weight (nor took the time to find it) of MDMA. So I am going to express this in terms of grams.
First, lets draw a proprtion. If 53 grams is 100%, then what is 42? 42x100=4200. Then, 4200/53=79.25% (rounded to the nearest 100th).
Then we figure out the nitromethane yeild.
25g=100% and 19.6g=x so 19.6x100=1960 1960/25=78.4%.
So in conlusion we find that the yeilds are even higher with shulgins method. But you gotta remember, the yeild percentage in grams is only 0.84% percent higher with Shulgins method, so who cares? Plus you don't have to make methylamine.
Also, we take into account that the link is just somebody elses method for the nitromethane reduction, so with enough tinkering, the yeild can be increased. So basically you were right!

4-I sent an e-mail about this.

5-First off, have you know idea that Eluesis and Zwitterion are the same people? Read this link about how he got busted: http://users.lycaeum.org/~chemist/
Anyways I am still confused as to why you won't think it won't work. MD-P2P is MD-P2P.

I hope all that helps, and your welcome. Here is another link for you to check out: http://rhodium.lycaeum.org/chemistry/ritter-alhg.txt

[This message has been edited by madchemist (edited 10-10-2000).]

Can I ask you guys a question? After youve gone as far as you can with your synths- when and how do you test your product? Have any of you made anything that really made you sick after ingesting it?

I have gotten sick once but it was because I took too much (I stuck my tongue in a good sized pile). I make sure I wash and recrystallize, and if it comes out looking even a little odd, I usually discard. I have had a couple of strange looking batches (both times ended in a strange looking goo).

1-Pictures, pictures, pictures. Look at every picture you can find on pure powder MDMA. You could almost mistake it for a pile of coke. Find a picture from every angle and every kind of light.

2-Physical properties. This is very important. Properties such as melting point, solubility, reactivity to certain chemicals etc.

[This message has been edited by madchemist (edited 10-10-2000).]

Dear Madman(Madchemist):

Again...Thanx. Yea, I knew they where the same, but I was just referencing from whichever name he was using as a heading. Man, your gonna hate me....I was reading Strike's Total Synthsis II and there is a method of making safrole into MDP-2-P through a Wacker (oxidation). I am knew to this so bare with me. The only reason why I like this method is becasue it is upscaled to produce 368 grams of MDP-2-P from 500 grams of safrole (79.6% yield).

I do have a few questions if you could answer them, though:

1) Where can I get DMF (Dimethylformamyde? And is it legal? Or can you make it? How?

2) In the synth. he calls for "3N HCI". What does the 3N stand for?

3) This is kind of an opinion question. I think there was a type-o in the book, but I certainly would like to know what the correct amount is. Here is the paragraph I am confused about:

"The solution is ready for extraction. In her first dream she used DCM and broke it into 4 extractions of about 1500 mLs each (she had a 2-liter separatory funnel). Since DCM goes to the bottom, a separtory funnel is a must. Buy or make one. The extraction should go without any problems, as there isn't any emulsions to contend with. She used 100 mLs of DCM for each extraction. The extracts are pooled....."

See here Strike says she used 1500mLs for each extraction (In her first dream), then Strike goes and says that she used 100 mLs for each extraction...which do you think is the correct amount?

Note: I just had a revalation...Does Strike mean that 100 mLs of DCM is used together with 1500 mLs of solution for an extraction?

Hey, this book is great. You should pick it up. Alot of real in depth procedures...step by step. Much better than any other I have read. If you are interested in this method, let me know and I will post it for you word for word.

Here is just a small list of what is needed to make the 368 g of MDP-2-P. Also out of the final rxn, you get 60 grams of isosafrole.

safrole
Palladium Chloride
cuprous Chloride
DMF
Cylinder of O2
3N HCI (whatever 3N means I have no idea)
Methylene Chloride (DCM)
Sodium Bicarbonate (for wash)
Sodium Chlordie (for wash)

Sounds nice doesn't it?

Thanx bro, your always a friend!!!




[This message has been edited by kpjr (edited 10-10-2000).]

Madchemist:
Regarding the last link in your post, I saw that synth in Strike's book (Total Sythesis II) and it seems well, but I have to devulged myself into it yet!!!

Kpjr

1-See your other post.
2-I am not sure about the "N". I saw in another synthesis that it stands for "normal", but I am not sure. My first guest would be newtons.
3-I have no clue.

Which book is that?

Madchemist:

Total Sythesis II by Strike. Just came out from Mind Books. Great book..step by step methods. Very nice. Most informative I have read yet.

kpjr

I'll have to look in to that. Do you have a url or something to make my life a litte easier?

can that book by strike be purchased on line? does anyone Not recomend buying such books online or do books like that not fall under that catagory of "watched"?

here is a url for the book for whoever asked... http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/096582912X/o/qid=971385416/sr=8-1/ref=aps_sr_b_1_3/104-7184455-7004766

NO! you cant get in any trouble for buying books.. yet... no one sends the information on the books you buy to the dea.

Clean.

not yet - But it sure wouldnt be too hard to get ahold of amazons customer list. And for a company thats never made a profit Im sure those guys in the tower are thinking of ways to make some revenue....

Cool thanks clean.

Dear Madchemist:

Check out this site. It's called mind books and they have a wide variety of books "focused on the "mind-expanding" plants
and compounds, also called psychedelics, entheogens, or hallucinogens." This site is great as they give you a little summary and rating for each book. Total Synthesis II is brand new, and comes highly recommended by Mind Books. Soon as I saw it, I bought it and was certainly not disapointed. Anyhow, here's the address...good luck.
http://www.promind.com/

There is a method in there on how to make MDP-2-P from safrole that is so easy and takes so little time it is unbielevably. Only prob is you need Palladium Chloride or Palladium Acetate which is so freakin expensive....I can't find any for less than $30.00 a gram. Although, if you use the Palladium Acetate method, just as easy, you only need one gram per 200 ml of safrole. Yield is said to be 80%++. It also has so many other methods, its great.

As for ordering books, I just never order them in my name or, certainly, not to my address. Hey it's better to be safe than to get busted!!

Anyhow, nice chatting with you guys again (Madchemist and Clean). Time to go to sleep and do some more dreaming.

Hey, as usual, here is another riddle:

This is like an optical illusion....with numbers! This riddle MUST be done
in your head and NOT using pen and paper.

> > > > Try it...it's weird

> > > > Take 1000 and add 40 to it.
> > > > Now add another 1000.
> > > > Now add another 30. Another 1000.
> > > > Now add 20. Now add another 1000. Now add 10. What is the total?
> > > > Did you get 5000?
> > > > *
> > > > *
> > > > *
> > > > *
> > > > *
> > > > *
> > > > *
> > > > *CONTINUE SCROLLING DOWN
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Seems most people do.

> > > > The answer actually is 4100. Don't believe it?? Try it w/your
calculator.

Man is but a god in ruins. ---> Ralph Waldo Emerson.


If a man hasn't discovered something that he will die for, he isn't fit to live. ---> Martin Luther King Jr.

Goodnight!

its cheaper at amazon

That was dumb I got 4100? I'll have to look at the wacker methods posted on Rhodium.

[This message has been edited by madchemist (edited 10-14-2000).]

Hey kpjr, have you considered making MD-P2P from beta-nitroisosafrole. It can be made from piperonal, which could be made from black pepper, defeating that possible watch you mentioned on sassafras oil.