Hey, pal...thanx for answering my questions. I really appreciate it. But, of course, I have a few more.

First, the recipe from PHIKAL asks to put a mixture on a steam bath for 3 hrs. I do not have a steam bath, so I was wondering what other means I could use?

Secondly, what is the difference between the following grades of chemicals: ACS grade, Reagent grade, Technical grade. And which is the best to use?

Also, in PHIKAL, at one point the chemist is asked to use concentrated Hydrochloric Acid. The most concentrated form that I can find is 38%. Is this okay? And if it is, then what would be considered a weak solution of the Acid?

Thanx again, Clean.

If you wanna see the rainbow, you have to be prepared to put up with the rain.

"Books are the quietest and most constant of friends...and the most patient of teachers", Charles Eliot.

quote:

---

First, the recipe from PHIKAL asks to put a mixture on a steam bath for 3 hrs. I do not have a steam bath, so I was wondering what other means I could use?

---

I am guessing you could use a pressure cooker cause they use steam.... but i aint tu sure...

quote:

---

Secondly, what is the difference between the following grades of chemicals: ACS grade, Reagent grade, Technical grade. And which is the best to use?

---

ACS grade = Lab Grade = The Best Shit

Reagent Grade = Regular shit= Shit

Techinal Grade = I dont know = Use Lab Grade

quote:

---

Also, in PHIKAL, at one point the chemist is asked to use concentrated Hydrochloric Acid. The most concentrated form that I can find is 38%. Is this okay? And if it is, then what would be considered a weak solution of the Acid?

---

Hmm now this is something you will have to try to findout if it will work or not. If the synth dosent say how conc. it needs to be than any conc should work.. again that is in theory..

sorry i couldnt bee of more help..

Clean..

for a steam bath you could(if you have a bath tub) put it in the tub, turn the thermometer on the water heater up(again, if possible), then turn the hot water on full blast. that would make quite a bit of steam. yet i'm not sure how sufficiant that would be.

theres an excellent book that describes a great set up using your pressure release valve from your pressure cooker. The books called Recreational Drugs by Proff. Buzz. Its got great details on how to set up a small lab and is a great resource for the weekend chemist. happy cooking

i dont believe the pressure cooker would work because the pressure cooker is designed to keep water pressurized so that it dont boil(turn to steam). kinda like the radiator cap on your car, its purpose is to keep about 15 pounds of pressure through your cooling system so the coolent wont vaporize...pressure cooker is the same thing. however, when you take the lid of the pressure cooker pressure is lost...resulting in steam.

goto your local head shop and look at the picture in the book that I discribed up above. It works but it might not be what your looking for. My little pressure cooker and I have been thru alot and they can be used for amazing things.....discribe exactly what you need to do with the steam bath and that might help us -,help you..

Heating on a steam bath means the vessel (the one that contains the reaction) is submerged in boiling water to heat its contents.

There are other ways to make ecstacy.
try this: http://totse.com/files/FA049/mdmasynt.htm

yea there are lots of different ways... here is a page http://rhodium.lycaeum.org/chemistry/index.html
has lots and lots of drug synths... look for MDMA.. shit load of info...

Clean..

In regards to Madchemist and your response: Isn't that link the PHIKAL Synthesis? (except for the final few steps)

Also, regarding Diethyl Ether...Is this the same as Ether Ethyl <-- this I can find, but I can't for the life of me find Diethyl Ether. Any comments? Please!

As far as PHIKAL is concerned, I seem to be drawn to the method, and I have found everything that is needed in that recipe (except the steam bath) including all apparatus (even a vacuum to .1 Torr). So, I think I will try my damn hardest to make it work. It really doesn't seem to difficult when you break it down. So, cooking will commense in a few more weeks.

Does anyone here no where to find Diethyl Ether?

Oh, and guys, I appreciate all the response and I apologize that I do not have the experience to help any of you out, but I will continue to post my results here, as you all have been extremely helpful. I do, however, have many years experience in cultivating the green leaf, so if any of you need help in that dept, I would be glad to lend a hand. Just pm me, as this is a chemistry thread. Thanx again, guys.

Hey, another comment:

I can get this chemical called Methyl Ethyl Ketone right? It sounds like something that I shouldn't be able to get. So, my question is, what could this be used for?

Also in some sythesis they ask to use a heating mantle...well I bought a hot plate/magnetic stirrer in one. Range is: 60-2500 rpm and heats to 371C. Is this just as well, or should I be getting myself one of those heating mantles? For backup purposes, maybe?

Thanx again guys....

Hey, just for hell of getting of the topic for a few, here's a riddle for ya:

Three guys goto a hotel. They ask the clerk how much for a single room and the clerk replies $30.00. So, each throws in $10.00 and they go up to their room. A few minutes later, the clerk realized that she over-charged them. The rate was only $25.00. So, she gives $5.00 to the bell boy and tells him to go divide it between the three men. The boy, knowing that he cannot divde $5.00 by three men evenly, pockets $2.00 and gives each man back only $1.00. So, the equation looks like this:

Orignally each man paid $10.00.
Each man got back $1.00
So, now each man has paid only $9.00
$9.00 times three men is $27.00
Plus the $2.00 the bell boy pocketed is only $29.00

Where the hell did the extra dollar go?

PS. Please help me with my original questions before you brainstorm on this riddle. Thanx again guys.

No, that is not phikal. Phikal I believe has the cyanoborohydride and aluminum amalgum. This is the lueckart reaction. I don't know if you have read my post on making LSD, but I also have a step by step method for the lueckart reaction (as well as the amalgum, but I think lueckart is easier). The lueckart does not require n-methyl-formamide, but a 40% methylamine solution can be replaced.
Also, instead of making isosafrole, then converting it to MDP2P, why don't you try converting the safrole to MDP2Pol, then converting the MDP2Pol to MDP2P, then purifying through the keytone's NaI complex. It is much easier than any peracid methods, and it doesn't require isosafrole. If you want, I can post the specifics on these operations. Also, in the lueckart reaction, if MDP2P is replaced by P2P, methamphetamine is the result.

[This message has been edited by madchemist (edited 10-01-2000).]

You were probably just confused because that link starts out with the same peracid method of making MDP2P from isosafrole.

Dear MadChemist:

I sincerely appreciate the help. Anything you have would be great. Please, anything you have. I am very new to the world of chemistry but have bought and read books such as PHIKAL, TIKAL, Secrets of Meth Man (Uncle Fester), Advanced Techniques (Uncle Fester), Psychedelic Chemistry, and The Organic Chem Lab Survival Manual. I only tell you this to let you know that this is as far as I have gotten. I have a really good supply of most anything I want and toward the end of next week, I will have everything I need as far as glassware, stirrers, heating elements, ect. As well as chemicals. I have, so far, been ordering everthing I need acording to the PHIKAL Synthesis #109. If you have other methods that will work with the same appartus and chemicals and they are easier and/or more product can be produced by your methods, by all means, send me the info cause I would like to start commencing very soon.Thanx again, brotha.

You seem to know what your talking about so I have a few questions which were posted earlier that no one has answered.

1) Should I purchase a heating mantle? I already have a Hot Plate and stirrer in one.

2) I cannot find Diethyl Ether. But I can find Ether Ethyl. Is this the same thing?

3) In your post I saw that you mentioned something about 40% methylamine. I have the lab grade, but it is not the aqueous solution. Would I still be able to use this in the sythesis you are recommending?

4) I stated that I can get Methyl Ethyl Ketone. Is this something that I could use? Sounds Like it huh.....
Thanx again.

KPJR


[This message has been edited by kpjr (edited 10-02-2000).]

Dear Madchemsit:

I wasn't sure if I asked you clearly, but I would appreciate if you would post the specifics to that operation. Take it easy on the explanation though...I am a newbie.

Oh, concerning the steam bath I noticed your reply. So, let me make sure I have it right, I know it's pretty simple and I figured I had it right but lets make sure: a steam bath could be constructed by simply puting some water in a glass beaker or what not, heating it on a hot plate and then submerging the mixture (which is probably in a flask) into the water. Question: Should the flask be touching the bottom of the container holding the water or should the flask be suspended in the water?

Note: What is the purpose of a steam bath? Why not just use a heating mantle?

If ya wanna see the rainbow, you have to be prepared to put up with the rain!

Also, one more note: I have read a little bit on the Leuckardt reaction, but not much. What kind apparatus does it involve?

[This message has been edited by kpjr (edited 10-02-2000).]

[This message has been edited by kpjr (edited 10-02-2000).]

All right here we go:
Safrole -> MDP2P
1. Take safrole, cool it to 0 degrees celcius.
2. In another vessel, add an equal amount (in weight not volume) of concentrated sulfuric acid.
3. Dilute the H2SO4 with water (distilled, always use distilled) until it is 90% acid. Chill to 0 degrees.
4. Take a third vessel, and put it in an ice bath (to keep 0).
5. Add the safrole to third vessel.
6. Add the sulfuric acid to safrole slowly.
7. Stir till it's all one color.
8. Add enough water to make the concentration of the acid 20%.
9. Heat gently for 10 minutes. An oily layer should form.
10. Seperate the layers, keep oily layer.
11. Add an equal volume of a saturated sodium carbonate solution and shake.
12. Once two layers form, seperate, keep oily layer.
13. Take the oily stuff, and add 1/10th weight of ammonium nitrate (you know, the fertilizer). Stir.
14. Add a pinch of cupric acetate (this can be formed by reacting copper with glacial acetic acid). Stir.
15. Heat until solution bubbles vigourosly.
16. At this point, remove from heat, and wait until reaction subsides.
17. When reaction does subside, dilute with a little bit of ether, then evaporate.
Conclusion:What is left is keytone and some impurities.
Purification of the keytone:
1. To 60g keytone, add 10g sodium iodide (this is a little more than required, but it will be ok, remember, 1 molecule NaI connects to 3 molecules keytone). Stir.
2. Make an ice bath with acetone\salt to get the temp around -8 degrees celcius. Put a thick pyrex bowl (or something that can take heat to extreme cold without cracking) in it.
3. Bring keytone/iodide to a reflux.
4. As soon as it refluxes, immediatly pour solution into the bowl. Crystals should begin to form.
5. After you are sure that no more crystals form, filter them out. Keep refluxing and cooling until no more crystals come out of the solution. Combine all filtered crystals.
6. Wash crystals with some ether.
7. Allow crystals to air dry.
8. Dissolve crystals in a minimum amount of water, and heat gently.
9. The iodide should then begin to release the keytone. It will float to the top.
10. Seperate layers, and you should keep the oily layer.
Conclusion:The oily layer is a pretty pure form of MDP2P.

Lueckart reaction.
First, you have to make a 40% methylamine solution:
1. To a vessel, add 80mL water.
2. Add 68.5g sodium hydroxide. Submerge in ice bath.
3. Add slowly, 116g methylamine HCl, stir. Keep this solution cool.
MAIN REACTION
1. In a vessel, add 133g of above solution.
2. Slowly add 88g 90% formic acid. Stir.
3. Distill off all water, then raise temp to 160 degrees celcius.
4. Add 59.4g MDP2P. Stir.
5. Keep at 160 to 170 degrees for 7 hours. Anything that distills over is periodically returned to main vessel.
6. When this is complete, let cool.
7. Add 145mL 31.5% HCl acid (muriatic acid). Stir.
8. Heat the mixture to a reflux. Allow to reflux for 8 hours. When finished, allow to cool.
9. Add 200mL of water. Stir.
10. Add half of the solutions volume in ether, and shake. Allow layers to seperate, discard ether. Do this twice.
11. Add some activated charcoal, stir around, then filter out.
12. In a seperate vessel make a solution of 25% sodium hydroxide and 75% water.
13. Basify main reaction with this until pH reaches 10.
14. Add half of the volume of reaction in ether. Shake. Seperate, and keep ether. Do this 3 times.
15. Combine ether extractions, and evaporate all traces.
16. Redisolve residue left in a minimal amount of ether.
17. Bubble HCl gas through it until crystals stop forming.
18. Filter out crystals, and wash them like you would at the end of the aluminum amalgum.
19. Allow to air dry.
Conclusion:Crystals are MDMA-HCl.
note:it would probably be best to dry the ether over some epsom salts before evaporation


[This message has been edited by madchemist (edited 10-02-2000).]

OK, as for your other questions:

1) Should I purchase a heating mantle? I already have a Hot Plate and stirrer in one.

Depends, how high does the temp go, if it goes to the temps specified, then it should be ok.

2) I cannot find Diethyl Ether. But I can find Ether Ethyl. Is this the same thing?

Diethyl Ether can either be extracted from automotive car starter, or it can be synthesized from ethanol and sulfuric acid. I can post the specifics on this if needed.


3) In your post I saw that you mentioned something about 40% methylamine. I have the lab grade, but it is not the aqueous solution. Would I still be able to use this in the sythesis you are recommending?

Read above posted synthesis. What do you mean lab grade, you actually PURCHASED this chem? It is watched big time here in the U.S.

4) I stated that I can get Methyl Ethyl Ketone. Is this something that I could use? Sounds Like it huh.....
Thanx again.

I am not sure. I don't want to mislead you.

As for the steam bath, I mean get some water up to it's boiling point, then submerge the flask or whatever about 1/4 of the way up the flask in the water. I am not sure the purpose for this, I just know if that is what it calls for, then DO IT.

Apparatus for the Lueckart reaction shouldn't be more than some flasks, simple distillation and reflux apparatuses, a seperatory funnel, and something to bubble HCl gas through the solution (you can get the HCl form another way, but I like that way because NO EVAPORATION). That should be about it.

Dear Madchemist:

I figure your online right now, since I got notification of your reply. Is there anyway that I can talk to you privately? I noticed that the are no private messages within this forum?

Please respond soon, thanx.

TIME IS NOW: 10:29 PM On Sunday

Okay Madchemist:

A few comments first: I did purchase the Lab Grade Methylamine Hydrochloride...from a good friend. Oh, and I could definately use the sythesis of making Diethyl Ether. Although, I asked around and the 2 responses I got was that Diethyl Ether is the same as Ether Ethyl. Is this something you would agree on? Anyone?

You seem to have changed my mind about which way I would like to go since it seems in this method I can use any amounts that I want to. Basically I can work toward more product, is what I meant to say. But I do have a few questions so I will read through your post and ask away if ya don't mind. Sorry, man, I hate to be such a pain in the ass. And I know there are alot of begginer questions, so please bare with me:

1)I have been reading alot about making a chemical that is say 80% of itself to say 20% of itself. What is the formula to make these adjustments. For example in your synthesis you stated: "Dilute the H2SO4 with water until it is 90% acid." Obviously, if I had 9 liters of 100% Sulfuric Acid, I would add 1 liter to make 10 liters of a 90% solution, right. But in another quote you stated "Add enough water to make the concentration of the acid 20%." At this point you would have added the 90% Sulfuric Acid to the Safrole. How would this formula work to make a 20% Sufuric Acid Solution?

2) Concerning Step 7, "Stir until it's all one color." If I am in an ice bath what shall I use to stir the mixture with? What can I use is my question, beside a magnetic stirrer?

3)Concerning step 9 "Gently heat for 10 minutes") Is the apparatus sealed or is the top of the vessel open?

4)Concerning Step 11 "Add an equal volume of saturated sodium carbonate solution and shake.": The only sodium carbonate that I can get is in a solid form. How would I make it a saturated solution? (Here's a guess: Disolve the sodium carbonte in as little Water as possible. Since the next step is to seperate the oily layer the water is not an issue. I hope???)

5) Concerning Step 14 "Add a pinch of cupric acetate.": I have no idea about this chemical so please post the reaction procedure.

6) Concerning step 17 "When reaction does subside, dilute with a little bit of ether, then evaporate.": Is this the infamous Diethyl Ether? And how much?

Note: Purification of Ketone - When you say to wash crystals with some ether, do you mean that while the crystals are in the funnel, to pour some ether over them??? Or, do you mean to wash as in a sep funnel??? Stupid question, but I don't know the correct answer...sorry, man.

7) Concerning the Purification of Ketone: Can this synthesis be scaled up?

8) Concerning Step 1 in Purification of Ketone: Is sodium iodide something that can be purchased easily or is it a reaction I have to complete?

9) Concerning Step 2 in Purification of Ketone,"Make an ice bath with acetone/salt to get the temp around -8 degrees celcius.": How much acetone? Sorry, I know this sounds stupid, but I have to ask. I know that salt is used to make the temp cooler is that the same reason for using the Acetone?

10) Concerning Step 3 in Purification,"Bring Ketone/iodide to a reflux." How long does this take and at what tempature?

11) Concerning Step 9 in Purification, "The iodide should then begin to realease the keytone. It will float to the top.": At what point will this happen? And at what temp should I be at? How will I know when it is finished?

12) Concerning Step 3 in the making of the 40% methylamine,"Add slowly, 116g methylamine HCI, stir. Keep solution cool." Can this solution be stored? Does it always have to be kept cool or just until the methylamine HCI is finished reacting and stabilizes?

13) Concerning Step 7 in Lueckart Reaction,"Add 145ml 31.5% HCI acid (muriatic acid). Stir.": Isn't HCI Hydrochloric Acid? Why the muriatic acid in paraenthesis?

14) Concerning Step 8 in Lueckart Reaction,"Heat mixture to a reflux. Allow to reflux for 8 hours. When finished allow to cool.": At what tempature shall I allow the mixture to reflux?

15) Concerning Step 11 in Lueckart reaction,"Add some activated charcoal, stir around, then filter out": How much activated charcoal? Remember, I am a begginner so I really need a step by step...sorry, man. Also, where do I get activated charcoal?

16) Concerning Step 13 in Luechart Reaction,"Basify main reaction with this until pH reaches 10." What the hell does basify mean? (I'll try and guess - Add dropwise a 25% sodium hydroxide and 75% water solution until the pH reaches 10)

17) Concerning Step 17 in Luechart Reaction,"Bubble HCI gas through until crystals stop forming." How do I bubble this gas through? What does the setup look like? What type of apparatus do use? And does the apparatus have to be pressurized or can I just bubble it into the mixture?

18) Concerning "Note" at the end of procedure,"It would probably be best to dry the ether over some epson salts before evaporation." How would I accomplish this? (Let me try this one too: Just add some epsom salts to the mixture (how much, though) and filter. This (I think) is absorbing any H2O in the solution. Am I correct?)

19) Finally, how much MDMA-HCI does this produce?

Comment: So this is not pure MDMA, correct? It is MDMA-HCI....Is there a big difference? Is a bigger dosage needed?

Okay, sorry for all the questions, but you must understand, I gotta make sure I know what I am doing. Thanx for all the help.

Alright, time to quit.

Thanx again.

[This message has been edited by kpjr (edited 10-02-2000).]

[This message has been edited by kpjr (edited 10-02-2000).]

[This message has been edited by kpjr (edited 10-02-2000).]

[This message has been edited by kpjr (edited 10-02-2000).]

I can answer 2 questions really fast befe i go to bed.. 1 HCL Gas setup http://www.totse.com/bbs/Forum5/HTML/000434.html
There is a easy to build easy to use setup.. well it was easy for me to build and use.

and the MDMA HCL or MDMA HydroChloride
you just convert mdma into its salts.. Basically this will make your product (MDMA) last longer. Freebase MDMA will turn into shit over time while MDMA HCL will last much longer. doses are the same and effect is the same.

Clean.

Thanx for the tips Clean.

Damn, what is this, 20 questions?
All right:
1-An equal weight of sulfuric acid in safrole is not the same amount volume wise, so you would just finish diluting the acid further to 20%. And you got it, 80% solution would mean 80% solute and 20% solvent. So that would mean, for example:
80mL vinegar in 20mL water. Got it?

2-Glass rod. Or something of the like.

3-Vessel open.

4-You can use sodium bicarbonate, which is baking soda. Just keep adding the bicarb to some water until it won't dissolve anymore. Then it is saturated. In this synthesis, it is used to neutralise the acid in the solution.

5-Hint: try to polish some pennies with some acetic acid. I think you can buy cupric acetate to.

6-Anytime I say ether, I mean diethyl. Pour ether over crystals in funnel.

7-YES! Like I said, convert the gram weight of the keytone to moles, then divide by three, take that number and convert it back to grams. This is how much NaI you need (cause 1 molecule of NaI bonds with three keytone).

8-NaI can be purchased.

9-I am not sure about how much acetone, just make an ice bath, stck in a thermometer, and add acetone slowly until temp reaches -8 (acetone is extremely endothermic when it evaporates).

10-Around the boiling point of the keytone, may be a little higher do to impurities and the NaI.

11-Just warm the water. Like, tap water hot. You'll know when it is finished when the volume of the oil is about the same as what you had before (a little less due to impurities).

12-I don't really know, if you do store it, keep it in the freezer.

13-You can use concentrated HCl, but the more common form is 31.5% sold commonly as muriatic acid. Same thing.

14-Just turn up the temp (slowly) until it starts refluxing away. If it slows or stops, adjust the temp accordingly.

15-Add about 1/4 solution (volume) in charcoal. This stuff can be found in a pet store.

16-You guessed it!

17-See mister_clean's post.

18-You are correct, drying means to absorb water. You know, like a dry martini? Probably add about 1/4 volume, mayb 1/8, depending on how much you have to workwith.

19-Yeild should be around 50% from MDP2P. So if you added 40 grams MDP2P, then you'll get around 20g MDMA.

20-It probably isn't totally pure, but MDMA-HCl just means that it is in it's hydrochloride salt form, so like mister_clean said, it stores better. Plus I think it is easily metabolised by the body. Pretty much all MDMA you get is MDMA-HCl.

I hope that helps. Check out this link for extra info: http://rhodium.lycaeum.org/chemistry/tcboe/index.html
The yeilds you get from the aluminum amalgum are better, but this is easier and perfect for clandestine chemists.

[This message has been edited by madchemist (edited 10-02-2000).]

I hope that good friend isn't a narc. Cause methylamine is highly watched. You should try making some yourself, it isn't hard. As far as diethyl ether and ether ethyl being the same thing, I have no idea. I have never heard of ether ethyl.
Here is the synthesis:
1-Place 100g of ethanol in a flask. Submerge in an ice bath.
2-Slowly add 180g concentrated sulfuric acid. Stir.
3-Allow to come to room temp.
4-Set up a distillation apparatus. Except set it up to where more ethanol can be added.
5-Heat mixture to 140-145 degrees celcius.
6-Start adding more ethanol at the same rate the product distills over.
7-After 150 grams additional ethanol has been added, stop distilling.
8-Make a 10% sodium hydroxide solution.
9-Add 50cc of hydroxide solution to product and shake. Allow layers to seperate. Discard hydroxide layer. Do this twice.
10-Do the same thing as the hydroxide with salt water. Discard salt water.
11-Redistill at boiling point of ether.
Conclusion:Yeild around 100g of diethyl ether.

P.S. Check your post at the hive.

[This message has been edited by madchemist (edited 10-02-2000).]

Dear Madchemist:

I apologize for saying that you were trying to persuade me...I really didn't mean it like it came out. You have CERTAINLY been the best form of information I have had. I think I was just up late and aggravated by that punk Unobtainium. You have been more than generous with your answers and very responsive to my novice questions. Thanx so much for your time and efforts, man. I really really appreciate it. And I did not mean any disrespect. Again my apologies.

Anyway, what the hell is with that forum (HIVE)?...def out of my league, but I needed to find the answer, ya know. Well, back home I go...have fun and thanx for all the info....I will be commencing soon and will keep ya updated. Thanx, thanx, and thanx again!

Well kpjr... I have surfed over to my second home "the hive" and read your post.. well ya know 1 thing i can gaurentee you from being there for a long ass time. if you cross post expect to get bitched out. Trust me its is annoying. I see cross posts here and it really pisses me off. No offense man i aint tryin to piss ya off or anything but they do have a point there. No matter how angry the people make you there it is an excellent learning resource. infact i think its one of the best if you are looking for info on meth and drugs of that nature. Again sorry if this seems like i am bitching you out but cross posting is annoying. Imagine posting an answer that took you 20 minuets to type then 5 mins later you see the same question with a new topic.. Wouldnt that upset you a bit? Well i will leave ya alone... for now ....

Clean.

[This message has been edited by Mister_Clean (edited 10-03-2000).]

The Hive is the place I go to when I need to get answers that I can't find anywhere else. It is also a good place to just browse through when your bored. Easy to get flamed there though! I also like Overgrow, found a lot of info on growing MJ there (thats what I started with). I like to have a few plants here and there.

hmm ever try the cannabis.com message boards for growing tips?? at http://www.cannabinoid.com

Dear Madchemist: Hey, I can see your point about cross postin, but really all I was trying to do is take the 'Diethyl Ether' question, which was buried in a post on MDMA, and bring it out in the open a little bit more so it would be showing in the main index. But I do understand about cross posting...it's just that the question was in parenthesis and I didn't think anyone would answer it because it was buried in a paragraph about MDMA. And that asshole just totally shit on me which I didn't appreciate at all, he could've just been polite, ya know? But o-well...I got back on anyway and called myself 'DiethylEtherMan'. Do you think he'll know who it is???? Ummmm...hmmm...!

The fact that you mention cultavating is kind of funny since that is actually what I do! Have been doing it for 10 years or so now. Got an awesome setup that produces up to 3 lbs every 12 days. (Yeah, I'd figure I'd brag a bit). If I could or if I knew how I'd post ya a few pictures. Been producing some mad grean leaf!!!! NL, BerryBerry, GUNK, AK47, Kali, Orange Blossom, and the list goes on. If ya ever have any questions, ask away man. Did soil for a few years, but my main is Hydroponics of course. Got a real neat scietific like setup. Probably cost me upwards of about 15K, at least. But its just cause I am anal about my grow room. I like everything to be clean and everything to be automatically run with plenty of alarms if shit goes wrong. But I am very familiar in a million different ways on a million types of systems. God knows I tried most of them. I just read Psychedelic Chemistry and was thinking that when I am little more experienced in all the procedures I would like to try and extract some THC...that sounds fun!! Oh, and Overgrow.com is great place to learn about growing. Awesome site...And so is cannibis.com Good tip Clean. Approx 6 months ago I picked up on a cool little procedure of make hash out of the crappy leaves. I went to Canada to visit some friends, and got my hand on the silk bags to make the hash. Got home, got a half of pound of dry leaves (fan leaves, bud leaves) and whoa....made me some of the best unadulterated hash I ever smoked. I mean this shit comes out very powerful. And all it takes is a 5 gal pal, a mixer, 2 silk screen bag, and some ice water (yes, no heating involved - totally, a cold extraction process)...oh, and a half pound of leaf. Matter a fact, they just published the procedure in last month's issue of High Times...they make it a little more complicated though. It's very easy and, hey, do more worrying about where to dump the leaf. Also found a way to run 24 400watt bulbs and olny have a $40.00 electric bill. No way to get caught either..absolutely no way...unless they come into your basement. Now that was a project. But... Just for a laugh, let me tell ya about this, when I 1st started, right, (growing that it) I stockpiled all my leaves and one day decided to build a small pit and burn all my leaves. Now, I live out in hickville (purposely) but houses are still fairly close...so here I am, I throw a bit of gasoline on the crap to get it started and poof....the smokes a rising now...I'm standing there, smile on my face just chillin enjoying the aroma of the smoking leaves, and my old lady comes screaming down the stairs, ranting and raving...(She was on the third floor) telling me to put it out. You could smell that smoke for miles. Shit, I was just enjoying. The whole neighborhood got high that day!!! Thank god it was a weekday. Oh, madchemist, about purchasing that methlamine HCI, my buddy (a very close friend) owns an analytical lab....so it's very convenient, ya know. Anyway, time to go to bed...no late night tonight for me...Peace guys...thanx for the conversation.

kpjr

Those who speak...do not know...those who know do not speak. - Sun Tza (The Art of War)

PS. I know it is not typical to ask this but what part of the country are you guys from? Ya don't have to be totally specific...and don't get nervous...

PSS. Hey, did either of you guys figure out the solution to the riddle I posted earlier in this thread....ya know...three guys goto a hotel? It took me a week to figure it out...try it, it's freakin hard...spins you head in circles. Have fun!

[This message has been edited by kpjr (edited 10-03-2000).]

HEY i posted the shit about cross posting... gotta give credit where credit is due....

Also the hive has its own attitude much like this place... The people who know a lot are smartasses because they can be.. they took the time to learn what they know and now they are boasting.. Just something ya have to learn to get used to.. and one day you can be the same.. so dont worry about it.. plus unobtainium can be a dick but he can also help out a lot too..

Clean.

Unfortunately I can only grow outdoors. But I do know all about nutes and ferts and active and passive hydro systems etc. I haven't been there in a while though. I post there under the name budman. Been there for a while.

You talkin about cannabis.com??? i never actually registered a name there..
Damn i wish i could grow outdoors.. i got a real nice indoor setup though so i guess it will have to do for now,,,


Clean.

Hey Clean...I here where ya commin' from brotha...and I used to be a punk with an attitude cause a though I knew it all...but then I learned that when you nice and cool and calm about problems or issues, better results seem to be the end product. This guys just a plain jerk. I would rather give up chemisty than listen to that asshole preach. I am debating whether to hassel him a bit more, since I am back on the hive again, (Sneaky me...all ya got to do is remove their cookie from your cookie directory in your windows folder...and register again) or just discuss the fact that he was an asshole...I mean I admit about the cross posting...no problem..won't do it again...but he needs to relax and take a chill pill. Ya know. Just like I said, alot of people think they have to be dickheads to get things done...and they actually think it's a new idea. Ya know who said that ? Robin Williams. He's an awesome actor. Anyway, Clean, I am off to bed for a second time. Have a good night, pal.

Peace.

Well man if u plan to go nuts on the hive let me know so i can watch.. its entertaining.. I say go for it.. Untill they block your IP its all good. Rock on

Clean.

Oh Clean...I just wanted to say that I will never be like Unobtanium and be a hot head cause I know it all...No way....been there, done that. Life sucks when your an asshole. Period.

But again, guys, have good night. (3 times now)

Oh, and one more thanx out to Madchemist for all the info. And to Mr. Clean for the HCI Gas setup. Thanx guys.

hehe seems like we are keepin ya up... well anytime i am here to help (i think) so i try to do my best without goin overboard..

Clean

Hey, Clean...stop posting...I want to goto bed...(laughs)...What happens when the block my IP? I have a few computers...will this help if they block my IP???

Maybe I'd better stay calm, huh? (laughs again)

Actually, I have an aol account, compuserve and a no name through my old lady's mother's school. That was a mouthful...

Ahh..screw it...we'll see if it happens.

Okay this time...it's really a good night...A nice joint of skunky Gunk and I am off to bed. Sweet dreams guys.

Hello

lemme clarify ethyl ether for you...

H3C-H2C-O-CH2-CH3

Ethyl-Oxygen-Ethyl

Two ethyl molecules joined by an oxygen, thus di-ethyl ether. It is impossible to have a mono-ethyl ether because an ether is joined by the oxygen.. The only thing I can think of that comes remotely close to being mono-ethyl ether is ethylene oxide and that is an epoxide not an ether.

Just for future reference ether, ethyl ether, diethyl ether, sulfuric ether, ethyl oxide, diethyl oxide are all synonymous.

Hey clean so you became a moderator? congrats..!

Ok, dude I thought we established that fact a while ago. Hey clean, why would you want to grow outdoors? Sure the yeilds are good, but if you do it right indoors, in the long run it is better. Plus there is that year round factor.

hey idjiat!!!!!!!!!! i was wondering where you have been... Yes thanks!!

Also yes but he seemed to point out several things that we already established. Including giving even harder methods out than the ones i posted.. Ahh ignorance is bliss!

Clean.



[This message has been edited by Mister_Clean (edited 10-04-2000).]

That question about the three guys in the hotel was a good one. It took me about an hour to figure it out. Im surprised no one else has bothered to answer.. maybe theyre still working on it. P.s. oh yeah way to go Clean- I kept seeing the title under your name and kept saying "didnt he want to be something else"- well I guess you got it sooner than you thought. Whats it all mean though? Member, regular,moderator- ? Does this mean you have access to info the others cant see or is it something else and Im just not getting it?

yes i havent been here in a while due to some fucked up chemicals I ingested and the events which occured not long after ...tip: never get stoned around cops, and then realize it when its too late...

Sorry to hear that idjiat... Glad to see you are back though...


Clean.

what's the fucking riddle ANSWER!

Kpjr i hope you read this... How did you wire the lights to get a 40.00 bill i am assuming you are talkin HPS or MH .. but how were they wired... e-mail me and fill me in


Clean.

Psst face it, you're just learning knowledge that you'll never need..

now tell me what the answer is to the riddle, please.. if someone wants to take a look at it.. I've been thinking now for a couple hours.

Three guys goto a hotel. They ask the clerk how much for a single room and the clerk replies $30.00. So, each throws in $10.00 and they go up to their room. A few minutes later, the clerk realized that she over-charged them. The rate was only $25.00. So, she gives $5.00 to the bell boy and tells him to go divide it between the three men. The boy, knowing that he cannot divde $5.00 by three men evenly, pockets $2.00 and gives each man back only $1.00. So, the equation looks like this:

Orignally each man paid $10.00.
Each man got back $1.00
So, now each man has paid only $9.00
$9.00 times three men is $27.00
Plus the $2.00 the bell boy pocketed is only $29.00

Where the hell did the extra dollar go?

the bell boy slipped the other dollar down his underwear?

SIMPLE because they wernt supposed to get 3 dollars back they were supposed to get 5 dollars back. soo i will attempt to make this easy to understand.

ok 30.00 - 5.00 = 25.00 total of room
5.00 can be divided between 3 people equally but 1 person can have less so for example
person 1 = 2.00
person 2 = 2.00
person 3 = 1.00
Now two people have paid 8.00 and 1 person 9.00

8.00 + 8.00 = 16.00
16.00 + 9.00 = 25.00 the total of the room

The dollar never dissapeared the question makes it look that way by doing that silly
9.00 x 3 people equation...


Clean.