Listen up. Abortion is not wrong. IN fact, Killing things that would one day be baies happens all the time!
You get mad becuz your taking out a baby that was almost born. Some people even get made when right when the person finds out they're pregnant, they remove the thing (dont know exactly what it's called) to stop the process from even beginning. Well let me tell you something then
If your a guy and against abortion, here are things you might do that makes you a hipocrit
1. Jacking off: jacking off makes you ejaculate. What's in the male ejaculate fluid? Many little sperm, that could one day become babies
2. Condoms - Once again, your blocking the little sperm form pregnating the girl, and what happens then after a whle to the sperm that are floating around in the condom? they die

For the girls
3. Birth Control - Any kind of birth control, if its the pill to a diaphram (pardon my french). You stopping the sperm from getting inside your egg, which will later [b]die inside your body.[b]

Now I know this is prob stupid, but still. If you think technicly, most abortionist are hipocrits unless they have abstinence and only fuck to have babies.

That would have been a valid argument. Too bad it's a waste. No one here is againsed abortions.

-rick

Technically this proves that you didn't bother thinking this out before posting it. This is stupid. Masterbation, condoms, and birth control are very different from abortion. It takes both the egg and the sperm together to make a baby. One or the other by itself isn't a child, and is a living creature about as much as the eggs were that you ate for breakfast this morning. By your logic, a woman's period is an abortion, or at least a miscarriage.

There's a very clear problem with abortion. Who decides when it's still OK to kill a living creature? I mean, the Buddhists maintained that it took 30 days for the spirit to enter the body, so is it OK to kill a baby 29.9 days after birth? I think abortion is fucking murder, and most people who say otherwise are on some hip leftest drone trip. Support adoption programs, and planned parenthood programs.

Why should a pregnant woman who knows she does not want a baby go through the trouble of being pregnant for nine months, and the unpleasurable experience of childbirth only give up her child to some other couple she doesn't even know? Personally, if I impregnanted a girl and she wanted to put the child for adoption I would feel very uncomfortable knowing that MY child would be raised by strangers.

Fuck adoption
thats all i gotta say

Fuck adoption? I have to ask, what's wrong with adoption? If a pregnant girl/woman wants to go through the birth process and give the child to a family in better position to care for it than she is, how is that a bad thing?

quote:

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Originally posted by Spiffy McBang:
Fuck adoption? I have to ask, what's wrong with adoption? If a pregnant girl/woman wants to go through the birth process and give the child to a family in better position to care for it than she is, how is that a bad thing?

---

Well she wouldnt have to go through the embarrasment and hassle and money of having it born when she could just abort it

quote:

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Originally posted by brainuser:
Why should a pregnant woman who knows she does not want a baby go through the trouble of being pregnant for nine months, and the unpleasurable experience of childbirth only give up her child to some other couple she doesn't even know? Personally, if I impregnanted a girl and she wanted to put the child for adoption I would feel very uncomfortable knowing that MY child would be raised by strangers.

---

So, it's "trouble" and "unpleasurable" versus a death sentence? Sucks to be on that scale. If your mom had an abortion to skip all that trouble, where would you be?

What really spaces me is that you find the feeling of strangers raising your child uncomfortable vs. killing a child?

Hassle and money against murder?

I'll say it again: leftist drones. I like to think of myself as a liberal, but drones like you make it embarassing as hell.

quote:

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Originally posted by NAAGAL:
Fuck adoption
thats all i gotta say

---

I think that this brilliant statement qualifies you for MENSA. This is the worst debate I've ever seen. Some kids picked up their local underground paper and read some shit about abortion. So, they thought they'd come on totse and spout it off so they can look cool. Sucks when the person opposing you has a strong reason behind his beliefs.

ok, its not nessacerly murder becuz the baby isnt born yet. sure its alive in the fetus but i htink its the mothers own decision so me and you should stop trying to convince people what to do

The way I see it, it all depends on how developed it is. If the centeral nervous system is less developed than say a bug, it is hardly human anyway. Sure it has potental, but so does every load you blow.

After that it gets to be a thornier issue, but my rule of thumb states that as long as the nervous system is undeveloped, it ain't alive enough.

Abortion should be an option, but there should be no arguments against adoption, period. There are downsides to carrying a child to term- physical changes, emotional alterations, social stigma in the case of a teenage girl- but those apply whether keeping the baby or giving it to willing parents. Money isn't an issue- all hospital bills related to childbirth are paid for by the adoptive parents. Whether or not it's a "hassle" is up to the would-be mother- it's not for you to blast adoption just because you think it could be a pain for a pregnant girl.

Switching gears... asking "what if your mother aborted you" is a flawed argument. My mother was 29 when she had me. Her and my dad were poised and ready to be parents. The same holds for the majority of the people here, I'm betting. Even the ones who were unexpectedly conceived probably had parents who were in a position to take care of a child, even if it was a bit of a struggle and they hadn't planned on it happening just yet.

A 15 or 16-year-old kid is in a completely different situation. Yes, I think adoption is a better option than abortion. There won't be a child to take care of in either case, but bringing the pregnancy to term will definitely teach that girl some lessons. More than anything physical, conscience is most likely to affect someone who has an abortion; an adoption will leave that conscience more or less free.

That girl, however, will have to deal with a lot of shit due to pregnancy. Social stigma is one thing; as preferable as it might seem to those a little older to be unashamed when you make a mistake and carry your burdens openly, this is major shit to a teenage girl. Pregnancy-related illness is another thing. School- taking classes may not be as difficult as holding a job, but you can expect a girl will be taking a significant amount of time off in order to take care of the birth. If she's smart and/or a hard worker, she can most likely get through her classes ok, but that takes a level of maturity many high school students don't have. That could easily result in her falling a semester or full year behind in her classes.

These are just the things that will affect the majority of those high school students who find themselves in the situation of an unplanned pregnancy. There may be other issues specific to certain situations that would make seeing the pregnancy through, even in order to give the baby up for adoption, a less-welcome possibility. This also assumes adoption is acceptable to the mother; some would not be able to bear giving up their child to anyone else. It's either abortion or keep it to them, and it would wind up fucking up at least two lives- the mother and the father- to try and raise the child.

I'm sure someone will come around and question my logic. How can I dare say that abortion is acceptable simply to make life easier for the girl? After all, social problems and having to catch up in school are not things which are nearly impossible to overcome, and it could be argued graduating high school later will give a girl a wiser outlook on life coming out.

The downsides of bringing a child to term are the major ones a girl will face- I say them as observations, nothing more. As I said, I believe adoption to be the better option in theory. Theory doesn't always play out so well practically, though. Abortion might not be preferable from a big-picture perspective, but it's her own small piece of the big picture that a girl has to consider first and foremost when making this decision. I have no problems with saying adoption should be upheld as positive, but to say someone is dead wrong for getting an abortion is overly moralistic and short-sighted. Unless you know the specifics of a situation, you are not qualified to determine what the "right" choice is.

No 'MEANS NO'. OK Well I believe abortion is wrong but I know what it is like to be a guy and freak out that your girlfriend is pregnant and u just want to get out of their or just get rid of it so you don't get in trouble or nothing. But if the mistake in some casses is made then we've got to face up to it and not abort the so called "problem" but to deal with it. Anyway if everyone in the world got married before they do it then there would be NO SUCH THING AS AIDS. Well thats me!

quote:

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Originally posted by NAAGAL:
ok, its not nessacerly murder becuz the baby isnt born yet. sure its alive in the fetus but i htink its the mothers own decision so me and you should stop trying to convince people what to do

---

Two years ago I took an AP bio class. In it, we did a lab where we would open a fertilized egg two or three times a week to look at the progression of the development process. You'd be amazed at how quickly the fetus adopts the traits of it's future. I don't condone abortion, but I won't stop them. You'll never see me standing outside of a clinic, because it's not my decision as to whether a woman should chose abortion or not. I am simply stating my opinion regarding the topic, and I think someone should stand up for the people who can't defend themselves. As Martin Luther is supposed to have said: Hier steh' Ich; Ich kann nicht anders. Here I stand; I can do no differently. There are always other options, and your first argument about hypocrisy is horribly flawed.

I don't know if I could ever go through with an abortion.. but am I going to stop someone else from having that option?..

Have you ever seen a child that's raised by people who don't want it? Who don't know what they're doing? Who treat the child as if it were it's choice to be born and ruin the parent's lives?..

In the same way as believing euthanasia is a moral option in certain cases, I think abortion is too.. And it's not up to anyone except the prospective parents to decide the morality of it.. Would you rather see a child suffer?.. And become an adult that suffers?.. With so many children without homes, carrying an unwanted baby to term is.. nonsensical...

As for the argument some people make that "this child could have been the next einstein".. it's illogical and improbable.. Intelligence, for example, is not solely a genetic trait, and for intelligence to be properly utilised, a child must be raised in such a way that their potential is maximised.. the likelyhood of this happening, say in the case of a 14 year old mother, is minimal..

On the other hand, those who view abortion as a form of contraception are disgusting, immoral, and basically wrong in every sense of the word..

Kids are getting lost in foster homes. The kid sometimes dissapear or do horrible acts: become druggies, prostitutes, strippers, etc. All of these kids were kids givin up for adoption. This does not mean it happens all the time, but it happens too often.

Kids that are given up for adoption are, nearly always, given to parents on a waiting list for such a child. The wait time is measured in years- they'd have no problem finding a willing couple. Children in foster homes are there due to parents dying without kin to act as guardians, domestic problems where the kids are taken away, or other circumstances where the children can no longer be taken care of by the family. They can be very young in some cases, but few go there as babies, and I don't believe a single one is "adopted" by a foster home.

i have a question for everyone who claims its the girls choice and that its not your place to stop it.

if you saw me with a gun to the head of some random bloke and i said its my choice and option to pull the trigger would you stop me?

if you say no then your perfectly justified in your abortion logic, however if you have a problem with me killing that fool then i think its time to take a good hard look at what exactly you believe and why you make a distinction.

and its no different just because hes a man and not a baby. life is life, if you value it then there is no difference between new life and older life.

I was going to answer that, syph, but I have to ask you something first. In a situation where something has caused the fetus to become warped, where there would be severe birth defects (both physical and mental) in the child, where it would never be able to live anything remotely resembling a normal life and would cause great hardship to those who must take care of it, would you say a woman has the right to get an abortion then?

Yes, there are differences between this example and the average case of an abortion being performed due to an unplanned pregnancy. If there weren't, I wouldn't be asking the question.

tough call on that one. i dont think a woman has a RIGHT to get an abortion ever, no one has a right to kill another person. however that sort of thing would have to be handled on a case to case basis with alot of thought on the parrents abilities. i think it would be kinda sick to say its ok to kill the very weakest in our society and still try to claim we are civilized. also the question comes into play of where do you stop? what if the kids geneticly determined to be gay? what if he is going to have heart problems and die withing ten years? its hard to make the distinction because if you condone killing the severly deformed baby then you have to condone killing every baby with something wrong with it. i can understand where someone would want to do something like that and label it a "mercy killing" but its really not thier choice whether another innocent human lives or dies. in my opinion the child should be allowed to live and if worse comes to worse put into a center that can care for him.

quote:

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Originally posted by syphon detonator:
i think it would be kinda sick to say its ok to kill the very weakest in our society and still try to claim we are civilized. also the question comes into play of where do you stop? what if the kids geneticly determined to be gay? what if he is going to have heart problems and die withing ten years? its hard to make the distinction because if you condone killing the severly deformed baby then you have to condone killing every baby with something wrong with it. i can understand where someone would want to do something like that and label it a "mercy killing" but its really not thier choice whether another innocent human lives or dies.

---

Gattaca!

Kinda what I thought.. which is fine, just means we're not gonna see eye to eye... well, more like we won't even be on the same floor, but whatever. I do see your point, very clearly. I just disagree with it.

I would say only, ask yourself this- if abortions were to be allowed on a case-by-case basis, who would make the determination? And if, to keep things fair and equitable, no abortions were allowed, where would these "centers" come from? That smacks of the old 60's-style mentality where seriously handicapped children where institutionalized, often for life, but maybe you have a better idea.

to each his\her own right?

The argument is where the baby fits in there.

the parrents of course would have to make the decision if the severly retarded child could not decide for himself. and when i say center i mean a place that specializes in caring for the retarded and severly physically handicapped. this of course would be a last resort if the parrents could not handle the child for one reason or another. there are already places around that can care for severly retarded children so what there is no need to determine where the center would come from. i would image that there will have to be govt funded centers as well if abortion was illegal.

its a shitty situation either way but i think the worst possible decision is just killing the kid.

EDIT: typo, added content

[This message has been edited by syphon detonator (edited 11-28-2002).]

quote:

---

Originally posted by NAAGAL:
Listen up. Abortion is not wrong. IN fact, Killing things that would one day be baies happens all the time!
You get mad becuz your taking out a baby that was almost born. Some people even get made when right when the person finds out they're pregnant, they remove the thing (dont know exactly what it's called) to stop the process from even beginning. Well let me tell you something then
If your a guy and against abortion, here are things you might do that makes you a hipocrit
1. Jacking off: jacking off makes you ejaculate. What's in the male ejaculate fluid? Many little sperm, that could [b]one day become babies
2. Condoms - Once again, your blocking the little sperm form pregnating the girl, and what happens then after a whle to the sperm that are floating around in the condom? they die

For the girls
3. Birth Control - Any kind of birth control, if its the pill to a diaphram (pardon my french). You stopping the sperm from getting inside your egg, which will later die inside your body.[b]

Now I know this is prob stupid, but still. If you think technicly, most abortionist are hipocrits unless they have abstinence and only fuck to have babies.

---

i thinks it pretty obvious to everyone how retarded this is but in case you havent figured out why let me make it very clear.

a sperm is just that a sperm. a sperm and an egg is the begining of life. together they grow into a baby. sperm alone will not grow into a baby. when you wack off, use a condom, or birth controll there is NO joining of a sperm and egg. alone they are nothing more than a single cell.

okay look it is wronge i have been trying to have a child for a little over a year now and the way i look at it is all these people out here mostly young girls are haveing sex at younger ages now and they are not on birthcontrol or anything and the get preg. right then fast fix get it termanaited the way i look at it is they were givin a gift and they threw it away like trash. when there are people out here that want to have kids yet can not. any way you look at it abortion is wronge.

patently not, there are plenty of ways of looking at abortion that don't lead to the conclusion that it is wrong.

Abortion is a unique issue in the sense that it's based wholly on opinion. Whether it's right or wrong is a 100% morality-based decision that each person has to make on their own. You (generic) say that the instant the sperm and the egg say hello, it's a person, I say it's not. No matter what reasons I say a woman might be best off with an abortion, you could say no, that's fucked up, that's murder, etc..

And, no matter how much we might say "you're wrong", it's a personal decision as to whether or not it really is right or wrong. That decision is, for many people, based on the circumstances of the moment- several of us who aren't against abortions would say they're not cool in some situations (like Suz said, using it as birth control is pretty fucked up... not to mention ungodly expensive). That alone makes it more or less a waste of time to argue (discuss peacefully, maybe, but not argue). It's also the main reason, to me, why they should stay legal.

quote:

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Originally posted by Wintermute:
patently not, there are plenty of ways of looking at abortion that don't lead to the conclusion that it is wrong.

---

yet none of them hold up unless you have no problem with murder. im not saying that there arent people who condone murder but trying to differentiate is just bull. there has to be a "consistent ethic of life" as the catholics say. even if a person tries to argue that the fetus is not a human being (which in my opinion is just flat out wrong) they still agree that whatever the fetus is, it is being murdered.

Who here eats eggs.

Its all about circumstances. Even the strongest person who knows what they believe in will question where they stand when they are in a certain situation like unemployed, late on rent, with no money.

Thats just what I think tho.

quote:

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Originally posted by CallMeBob:
Who here eats eggs. .

---

Eggs are unfertilized, and are therefore not a living creature. Don't be stupid.

Not fertilized you say. Hmmmm. Hens, a rooster, and yet unfertilized. Something seems wrong with that.

Most eggs are unfertilized. The farmers get 'em before the roosters do. There are people, however, who specifically go and buy fertilized eggs. Don't ask me where they get 'em, though.. eggs have gotta be the nastiest shit around, food-wise, either way.

There are all these people who are pro-life and everything and are like "its murder" and then they go out and stick a pipe bomb in some doctor's car or office and kill and maim a bunch of innocent people. I saw this show on abortion and they were interviewing this guy who was prolife and was laughing at these doctors who got killed or hurt. thats kinda sick. and yes i do realize this is a small fraction but this also shows that they esist and it happens and what are you going to say? "he killed so other future babies can live" that there is selective murder as well. and actaully it qualifies as terrorism because its using fear and violence to get ur way or make people share ur views. and then what about if some girl gets raped and she becomes pregnant but is so badly injured from the rape that giving birth to the baby would kill her? these are just my opinions but no one has been able to answer me at school over this.

quote:

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Originally posted by Prometheus:
Not fertilized you say. Hmmmm. Hens, a rooster, and yet unfertilized. Something seems wrong with that.

---

How many times have you noticed a germinal spot in the egg you cracked for breakfast?

That's what I thought.

So you were thinking 'several'. It's not that rare of an occourance.

Well, I've eaten plenny eggs in my life and I've seen it... twice.

In decades past, it was common for the
birth control pill to be thought of as
immoral or inhumane. Today it is much more
accepted. Society and humanity evolved.
Someday the abortion argument will also be
a non-issue. We just haven't evolved there
yet. People don't like to change; it takes
time.

With RU 486 almost certainly becoming more
prevalent in the US in the near future, I
expect first trimester abortion will
become MUCH more common. In fact,
hopefully, second trimester and even late
first trimester abortions will decrease.
There will be less women waiting to have
abortions til later in their pregnancies
because they will not have the frightning
procedure to deter them.

Everyone (including the lawmakers -- at
least in this country) seems to agree that
after a certain point (third trimester) in
the pregnancy, abortion amounts to murder.
So, the sooner the abortion can take place,
the better. Once the facility to end the
pregnancy early and "painlessly" is widely
available, the surgical abortion rate will
fall sharply, and in time (long, long time)
will probably be miniscule. The advent of
better and more effective and safe drugs
that accomplish the same task will help as
well.

Its a matter of time, people. Pro-lifers
are a slowly dying breed.

Gah in my opinion its the same as removing a cancer or a tumor.... getting rid of a pain in the ass !

GO ABORTIONS

Wether or not abotion is wrong is a murky subject, mainly dictated by religous opinions. As the conflict comes from religous opinions the government has no right regulating it, except for general medical purposes.

If a person doesn't beleive in abortion then it is their right to try to convince people that it is wrong, but not to stop it.

if you have an abortion up untill the fetus has a beating heart and most of the major organs are formed then it should not be considered a bad thing

quote:

---

Originally posted by Prometheus:
Wether or not abotion is wrong is a murky subject, mainly dictated by religous opinions.

---

Religion isn't necessary for having moral standards.

I can't honestly find a problem with abortion, because I don't think a person is alive until they've experienced life (not the intangible thing many in this thread have referred to, but to the tangible form of life; being able to reach out and touch something kind of life). Also, many people who have abortions are those that *need* them to some extent... the number of financially secure adults that have abortions is drastically lower than the number of kids who don't need the responsibility of another life on their head.

As for making the person carry the child to term to 'teach them a lesson', why should you say that they must be punished with a pregnancy.

And for anybody that uses the argument of the death penalty (which I'm very much against) and abortion being on similar levels, they're not. This has to do with the circumstances... for example: A person that has an abortion is not condemning a person that has experienced life in the tangible way; they're ending the existence of a bundle of dependent cells. A person that is condemned to death by the state, however is a person with a life, family, friends, etc.

[tyrade]
And any-fucking-way, you militant pro-lifers, what right do you have to force that off on other people... if they want an abortion, let them have the fucking abortion... geez...
[/tyrade]

I'd like to introduce a special, rarely thought of situation where many would find abortion to be the right choice. Let us assume that I impregnate thirty girls in one week. Five months later I go up to each one and give them a gut-punch worthy of killing the fetus. After all thirty fetuses fall out and I collect them in a 25-gallon bucket, I used them to fertilize my new garden of potatoes. If I donated these potatoes to 30 more children in order to sustain their life, would it not be moral? Huh?

I know the following points have been made before, but I thought I'd just try to make them clearer, keeping in mind that this is just my opinion, nothing more.

Do you think it's fair on a child to be brought up in a bad neighbourhood by his/her 16 year old drug-addicted mother? I think it is much fairer to prevent this situation from happening, seeing as how a foetus isn't exactly self-conscious untill after it is born.
Statistics show that the majority of unwanted pregencies are concieved either at a party where the girl is too drunk or high to give consent or control the muff-hungry male/s, or by junkies on the street selling themselves to get a hit.
Needless to say these are horrible circumstances, and who has the right to say that the woman/teenager has to suffer the consequences of being too drunk, or needing a hit. Also, do you think it's fair on a child, to be brought up by strangers, this small event may completely destroy the child's whole life, depending mainly on emotional stability. Personally, I would hate myself if I was brought up by people who aren't my real parents. I would blame myself and question why every day, and I imagine most of you would too.

Also, those of you who say abortion is equal to murder, you had better be a complete vegan. If not, you are the biggest posers ever. What do you think happens to the cow/chicken/fish/pig/"insert animal here" before it gets to you. It is obviously murdered, brutally.

Now for another argument. Stem cell research. We have already learned HEAPS from the small research that we have already carried out on aborted foetus'. According to this research, we could possibly find cures to the worst kinds of diseases, hence saving many more lives than we are supposedly destroying.

This is already getting too long and I have heaps more to say, but hopefully this has fed your feministic minds.

Basically, I believe that abortions should definitly be an option and in some cases, the only option. What I don't believe in however, and can't stand, is people who think that abortions are always there for them which therefore means that they don't need to take precautions in sex, but thats a different story altogether.

quote:

---

Originally posted by logical-not:
As for making the person carry the child to term to 'teach them a lesson', why should you say that they must be punished with a pregnancy.

---

Eh.. this may be directed at someone besides me, but I don't remember anyone else saying something like that, so to clarify- I never said someone should be forced to carry out a pregnancy to teach them a lesson. I only said that, if they were to do so, it would teach them something valuable, namely what it's like to go through that entire process (and how much it can fucking suck).

personally, i dont get why people have to keep arguing about this in a free country. there is no way that abortion will ever be outlawed. let the people who dont support watch their kids get pregnant at 16, and to impress all their christian friends, not let her get an abortion, even though she really wants one, and then we can all watch her go through the horrible life shattering (young-mother) childbirth. let people believe what they want to believe, why do we all have to care so much?

SenorJesucristo

I have seen the error of my ways! If I ignore the fact that adoption is a viable alternative, I too, can be a leftist drone!

quote:

---

Originally posted by NAAGAL:
Listen up....

---

Just a personal thought, but opening a thread with those two words makes you sound like a wanker.

Abortion is only wrong in concraception. I'm sure the 2 billion excess people in this world would GLADLY admit that they would have liked to never have been born. Everyone needs to realize that Earth can't hold 6.5 billion people and keep them all fed. We need to decrease to perhaps 4 billion and then stay there. Just look at India. HALF the size of America and yet around 3 times as many people squeezed into it! "Untouchables" in India are outcasts, feared because they are diseased and forgotten. Their life is to CLEAN SHIT OUT OF PUBLIC BATHROOMS WITH CRUDE TOOLS AND/OR HANDS! Theres too many people.

They won't know until after they've been born. Consider it a cosmic jest.

Until the baby has capacity to live without support of the mothers body, it is part of the mother and, therefore, she can do whatever she feels fit. Since we already have laws banning abortion after a period of time that should be sufficient to ensure this circumstance, it should be non-issue.

Can't people just mind their own fucking business?

You Have The Ability To Give Life.
You Have The Ability To Take Life.

Its A Legal Way To Murder Something, Shit Why Are We Whining.

-Drax

quote:

---

Originally posted by syphon detonator:
i have a question for everyone who claims its the girls choice and that its not your place to stop it.

if you saw me with a gun to the head of some random bloke and i said its my choice and option to pull the trigger would you stop me?

if you say no then your perfectly justified in your abortion logic, however if you have a problem with me killing that fool then i think its time to take a good hard look at what exactly you believe and why you make a distinction.

---

It's your choice, you deal with the consequences. It is nothing to do with me.

I profess to not digesting all of the replies........

However, I got the gist.

Firstly, I must say Famicommie, I've always found your comments interesting, if not relevant. This time, I am fairly shocked. At all of you!

Not ONE of you has a right to talk on this subject unless you have been pregnant.
It's exceedingly insulting that so many of you sit in judgement on something that you never have, and possibly, never will, experience.
How dare you attempt to dictate to the women, when she should or shouldn't bear children. How about the raped women of Rwanda? Eh?
Ok - that's an extreme example, but frankly, you all obviously have both so little understanding, and so little compassion of the woman's journey of pregnancy, that you can all shut the fuck up as far as I'm concerned.
Not Impressed!!

FRO-mage..............

Top stuff :-)

ok, seriously. If you got raped and became pregnant at like 16-17 and had no money or any means to care for the child. Would you still have it?

If yes, then thats just selfish and you aren't even considering how the child would be affected.

If not, then that just proves that (most) of the people posting on this thread know what they're talking about. You shouldn't assume that just because people are guys, that they have no compassion or feeling towards others. In fact, it could even be argued that (some) guys could handle an abortion situation better because they wouldn't even have half of the emotions rushing through they're bodies as they try to decide what to do. (I don't necessarily agree with that BTW)

Tooth Fairy, I like to consider myself both compassionate and a leftist. But, there's more to abortion than going through pregnancy. The debate isn't about what the 19 year old who went to some guys house after dropping e has to go through, it's the ethical argument over whether that baby/fetus has a life. Yes, as I said earlier, I will never be outside of a clinic, because even though I have strong feelings against abortion, it isn't my choice. I believe I stated that on the second page towards the beginning of it. I support educating women who ask for abortions.

Why do pro-abortionists always bring up cases of rape and drug addiction, when there's a general consensus that it's acceptable in those cases? What about the rich 22 year old who simply doesn't want a child yet? Or the 21 year old who was so busy sleeping around instead of working she can't afford the child? When did abortions become a door to escape bad decisions?

And as for the stupid comments about the not having money to support the child: Adoption. If you honestly think adoption is worse than abortion, you need to look at the facts a little harder.

Oh, and by the way Tooth Fairy, if I shocked you it at least had to be interesting But now I take it that you'd rather see my ridiculous tangents referencing gay relationships with riot_kid.

Would you like it if you were adopted?

I don't see why not.

Would you like it if you were aborted?

It'd be better then living a lie

How is adoption a lie? There's no evidence supporting that adoption isn't a good alternative to abortion. The families who adopt children are thoroughly screened, and are put on ridiculously long waiting lists.

So, you really think that a crack addict in a slummy neighborhood who forgets her child exists all of the time is a superior mother to one that feeds and loves a child? The biggest part of being a family lies well outside of bloodlines.

Pro-abortion and Pro-adoption. Who cares if you kill some baby, would you rather it starve to death or get beaten its whole life and become some freak? Well, I don't really care what happens as long as the unwanted thing dies. We are to many people already.

As for adoption, I'm sure the adopted kid would rather be with some loving parents than in a home with hundreds of others and no special attention.

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Originally posted by The_Famicommie:
So, you really think that a crack addict in a slummy neighborhood who forgets her child exists all of the time is a superior mother to one that feeds and loves a child? The biggest part of being a family lies well outside of bloodlines.

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Haven't I just been saying that that particular crack addict should get an abortion to prevent the child being forgotten and uncared for?

If the baby was adopted it would be remembered and cared for.

Anybody who would feel uncomfortable being adopted merely has an uncomfortable personality. They'll find something uncomfortable about any life situation. I know several people who were adopted as babies. They currently love their families dearly, and the only one who had searched out his birth records only wanted to know if his biological parents carried any diseases like AIDS, cancer, or diabetes.

There's nothing wrong with adoption. Shit, my dad was adopted. There are people out there who can't have kids, but would make good, loving parents (no doubt in part due to that fact)- why would anyone say abortion is a better choice? The option should always exist, but if those involved can handle the lengthy process (wait times for parents, pregnancy for the birth mother), adoption is overall preferable.

BTW, it's pro-choice, not pro-abortion. Extraordinarily few people could be called pro-abortion.

{Yes, I think adoption is a better option than abortion. There won't be a child to take care of in either case, but bringing the pregnancy to term will definitely teach that girl some lessons.}


A child should never be brought into the world to teach someone a lesson! Shame on you Spiffy you usually have much better arguments than that.
I for one am pro-choice. This however doesn't mean I'm Pro-abortion. Never had one and never would because I believe it's wrong and over used as an acceptable form of birth control when it shouldn't be.
There are truly pregnancies that occur through rape and honest mistakes but that is such a small percentage. Everyone else is just lazy and careless and takes it for granted that abortion can always be a way out. Legal murder is what it is. I personally know of people who have had 3 and 4 abortions because they kept slipping up. That type of person should be permanently sterilized and I direct that towards women AND men.
It should still always be a choice though because there could be situations where health risks are involved and bottom line, you can't tell people what to do and make up their minds for them. If you force them to have a child they don't want it will be abandoned or grow up in a fucked up environment and what kind of life is that to give to a child you were so concerned about existing in the first place?
I think the person who posted "screw adoption" or something to that effect really meant "screw giving a child up for adoption". Being shuffled through the foster care system living with PPPP"s (people playing parents for pay) can't be nice. Neither can growing up mysteriously looking like neither one of your parents and searching the faces of strangers who bear some resemblance to you wondering if maybe...? However loving couples that can't have children or those that just choose to care when they don't have to are people I would label as Godsends(if I believed in God).
Adoption is beautiful but in a kinder world wouldn't exist. Abortion is heinous but in this reality very needed.

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Originally posted by Twilighteyes:
A child should never be brought into the world to teach someone a lesson! Shame on you Spiffy you usually have much better arguments than that.

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Goddamn it, I explained this already. One more time.

I am not saying that a girl should HAVE to carry the pregnancy out in order to learn a lesson. That's absurd. What I AM saying is that if she does choose adoption over abortion, there are lessons to be learned from that experience. It isn't a reason in and of itself to choose adoption, but it's still something that will happen if the girl goes that route.

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Originally posted by Spiffy McBang:
BTW, it's pro-choice, not pro-abortion. Extraordinarily few people could be called pro-abortion.

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I concur. And I'm not anti-abortion, I'm pro-life.

sdf