I have this project to do for school and I need some help from you nice people from totse here goes:

I have to give arguments for and/or against legalisation of homosexual couples that wanna adopt kids. So post freely thank you and have a nice day
I'll give arguments of my own after posts

The welfare of the child is more important that the personal gratification of the parents...

And a child has a right to a mother figure as well as a father figure...

That was on the ananda lewis show about 3 days ago, in australia that is

i my eyes a child should have a mother and a father. you have to look at it in the long term aspect as well. what is going to happen to the kid once it goes to school. the other kids that have mothers and fathers may not look at the family like a real family and pick on that child. and i really do not want to put any gay males down by saying this yet we all know that tw weman are more exsepted than two males. so the gay comunity really needs to put aside their wants of a child and need to look at what their wants wil do to a child.

methangel

I dunno. I guess I might adopt a homosexual. It would depend on the child, really.

Would u like to have two daddys? EH?

HELLO!!!! Single Mothers and Fathers!!!!

Anyway as u can tell from that lol, i don't see a problem with a homosexual couple adopting a child, i mean there are heterosexual couples who don't deserve a child with the way they treat them.

As long as the couple love each other dearly and can love the child just as well as a hetereosexual couple then i see nothing wrong with it.

There has been no proof that have a same sex parents does anything to the child in life which will fuck her/him up and so on, so they might get bullied at school, but hey thats life, people get bullied for all sorts of different reasons!!!!

I wouldn't mind if i had two moms or two dads.

Don't think there is anything wrong with not having a father figure or a mother figure since there are children who grow up in single mom or single dad household, and nothing bad happens to them in life.

i am tired.
Hope some of that helped, but i just rambled on.

quote:

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Originally posted by Phonix Shock:
HELLO!!!! Single Mothers and Fathers!!!!

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It's not just the biological parents...
Children with both male and female role models generally turn out more mentally stable, etc...

quote:

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i mean there are heterosexual couples who don't deserve a child with the way they treat them.

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There are people on our roads who hold drivers licences yet they still drive like maniacs, endangering the lives of everybody, and so shouldn't be allowed within 100m of a motorised vehicle...
Does that mean we should give licences to blind people?

quote:

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As long as the couple love each other dearly and can love the child just as well as a hetereosexual couple then i see nothing wrong with it.

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So long as the child gets everything he/she needs... ie food, clothing, shelter, sufficient psychological and emotional support... yeap, I'm all for homosexuals, heterosexuals, bisexuals, eunuchs, or wolves bringin up kids...

quote:

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Don't think there is anything wrong with not having a father figure or a mother figure since there are children who grow up in single mom or single dad household, and nothing bad happens to them in life.

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Maybe, but I feel sorry for those kids...
I was privileged enough to be brought up by both a father and a mother.
It may be true that this wasn't strictly necessary, but I'm damn grateful for it and will do everything I can to ensure my kids get it.
You can't argue with the fact that a good father or mother is better than none at all...

So I suppose it's just a matter of where u draw the line between 'essential' and 'desirable'

For my kids, I'll try and draw that line as high as I can, but for society, and everyone else, I guess that's a different matter.
Please note that all my rebuttals refer to the environment in which the kid is brought up, and not to the sexual orientation of the parents...

And LoL@Z3m

suppose i am a child molestor. i love the child, provide for him, and i am there for him emotionally. should i be allowed to adopt the child? its really not societies business what values i teach MY child such as the idea that its fine to fuck little boys just as a gay couple teaching their children that homosexuality is fine.

you see what im getting at. not all groups are fit to raise a child. if your going to let fags adopt then you should also let convicted child molestors, rapists, and murderers adopt kids becuase its their values for their kids.

anyone who is in favor of letting fags adopt kids is a complete and total asshole.

A same-sex relationship is just not normal in the natural world(Bonobos are just as warped in humans in that reguard:)

So, I would think that any child brought up in that invironment would have a greater chance of developing issues (to put it mildly).


I should note that I believe that girl-on-girl is quality entertainment...




[This message has been edited by Who's Your Daddy? (edited 10-07-2002).]

Sadly it will always be a problem as long as people have problems with homosexuals.

racists, gay-haters and all the rest of you prejudice losers wether your upper, middle, lower class. black, white, blue or green.

Your stupid pathetic views cause so much trouble for the rest of us.

How can you compare a kiddie fidler with a homosexual. WTF does it matter if gay parents told there kids homosexuality was right, if they brought him up right the kid would make its own choices.

I would be traumatized,
But i wouldnt know cuz i wasnt raised by Homosexual parents, Rigth Killer?

Parents who are open-minded and respectful of each other and their children (which includes being involved with their kids and not letting them run amok) will have the best chance at having a solid family. Sexual orientation has very little, if anything, to do with any of that.

I do agree that having homosexual parents could leave a child more likely to get picked on, but that's a problem with society, not the parents. Not allowing homosexual parents to adopt for that reason wouldn't fix anything.

syphon detonator what a load of bollocks.

agree with Adihash and Spiffy mcbang (in a way.).

Not all homosexual couples teach their child its right to be a homosexual, i know a couple who have a teenager and they don't talk to him about it like that, they just tell him that if he met other gay people he shouldn't judge them because they are gay.

Anyway there is nothing wrong with been a homosexual, if u are then thats cool, it doesn't harm anyone, just harms idiotic peoples minds who fear it for some reason.

I don't see why a kid can't have 2 dads, as long as he doesn't get the shit beaten out him in school everyday, just every other day.

I say that a loving gay couple should have as much of a right as anyone else. The only qualification should be that they are in a long term relationship with some history behind it, at least until gay marriges are legalized everywhere. No adoption agency should (I'm not saying they don't) allow a child to be adopted by a potentaly unstable couple, such as just living together. Basicly I see no reason why gay people should be denied any of the rights given to the rest of us. Adoption included.

[This message has been edited by Prometheus (edited 10-08-2002).]

I'm from San Francisco, so a lot of people may think that my opinion doesn't matter because it's skewd from growing up in Mad Area.

But, personally, I think it's more important whether or not their good people and less important what and who they're fucking when their bedroom door is locked.

This is the 21st Century. May be homosexuality is immoral. May be it isn't. I don't want to turn this into a religious debate, but whether or not homosexuality is morally wrong, it exists and it will continue to exist as it has existed for thousands of years.

Just because you have a mommy and a daddy doesn't mean it's going to be a happy family. Therefore, if your parents were homos there are a lot worse things they could be. They could be physically and/or psychologically abusive. They could be drug addicts or alcoholics, etc...

Cheers,
Lost

quote:

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Originally posted by just.landed:
I don't see why a kid can't have 2 dads, as long as he doesn't get the shit beaten out him in school everyday, just every other day.

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Well Of course he will get beat up and get dissed every day but some say that u may get used to it or ignore that kind of stuff but I think that it can touch u morally and u get 2 school seeing everyone has a dad and a mom...Wouldn't u start asking your gay parents questions and to yourself 2? I say it would probably feel Weird...

It might, but again, that's something each separate set of parents would have to deal with in their own way. It's a delicate topic to talk to a kid about, sure, but so are a lot of things.

I think that every person on the fucking planet has the right to have children- whether its by hetrosexual reproduction or by adoption. The problem as you say is with sociaty. Anyone who is different is going to be teased at school and jeered at but thats life. I have one father and one mother- they are in a loving marriage together and have been since before i was born. I was really fucking bullied in school though- because i was fat and my parents are fat. I was different and for that i was kicked and punched and beaten by older kids for nearly a year (plus the near constant name calling)- that really fucking affected me, but i accepted the past and moved on (i have more than accepted it now though in my adult life- i am intirely comfortable with who i am- hence my tag). My point is my parents were fat and they were allowed a kid- although it was near certain that i would be fat due to genetics (nearly every member of my family on both sides is at least overweight). For your arguments about "they will be bullied because of their parents" and "what if they go gay because their parents are" are just plain ridiculas. If fat people are allowed to have fat kids then why can't gay people have "normal" or even gay kids.

It doesn't make sense.

Chunkmiester
Two words- Double Standards

do any of you know anything about psychological development of children at all? Freud was right, you are your dad. gay parrents will most likely raise gay kids. and there are some very wrong things with homosexuality such as its defiance of human nature and its anti-evolutional effects. you can throw out all the politically correct bullshit you want but when your kids go over johnnys house and you find out his dads a fag will you feel comfortable? theres no need to respond to this question with bullshit because every person on this board knows in his or her heart that they would be uncomfortable.

im not even going to further respond to this post since i can see everyone here is too concerned with apearing enlightened to whats popular to be honest.

"when your kids go over johnnys house and you find out his dads a fag will you feel comfortable?"

Yeah. Don't assume everyone feels the same way you do.

Hey Syphon- Normally i agree with what you say and generally you are a decent respectable poster here, but in this topic you are way of the mark. Children will only take the piss of feal uncomfortable if the parents bring them up this way. Doesn't anyone recall the tests that they did on babies and toddlers in Cambridge a few years ago?

They got 10 babies and split them into 2 groups. In each group there was:
1 baby with only a mother
1 baby with only a father
1 baby with an adopted mother and father and
2 babies with a mother and a father.
They sperated each group into seperate rooms (5 babies in one, 5 in the other) All babies were accompanied by their parent/s. A large- yet harmless- snake was placed on the floor with group 1- the parents were told not to react to the snake. The babies were quite happy for the snake to slither around them because their parents showed no fear or anxiety. In the other group the snake was placed and the parents were told to act scared and afraid- every baby in that group cried. This proves that children are shaped by what there parents say and do. If you have a homophobic father and mother who invest their homophobic enmity into you then you are surely going to go and not like homosexuals. If your parents are understanding about homosexuals and do not poisen you against them then you won't be bothered about them and you will treat them like any other person.

Syphon- do you have children? I know that some totse members do. You know the joys that come from parenthood, you know how happy your children can make you, you know how prowd you can be of them. Are you seriously telling me that you will happily deny hundreds of thousands of people this joy simply because of their sexuality?

Chunkmiester
Syphon- I respect your opinion but how can you be so close minded?

I'm starting to lose track of how many times syphon has said he'll no longer post in a thread because, he accuses, one or more people are guilty of willful ignorance to the "truth". Seems that when twenty people disagree, they're all following society's lead, while he's the truly enlightened one.

i love how people like spiffy support homosexuality when the only gay man they have ever seen is a an interior decorator on day time television. i deal with these people daily.

this is the same as rich kids telling someone about racism when the only black man they have ever come into contact with was the guy who pumps their gas for them.

correction syphon, 4 people ...

quote:

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Originally posted by syphon detonator:
i love how people like spiffy support homosexuality when the only gay man they have ever seen is a an interior decorator on day time television. i deal with these people daily.

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I've been told I understand a lot of things, but one thing I fail miserably at getting is the enjoyment, desire, or other motivations which provoke someone to purposely try to piss off others on internet message board. It certainly can't be the challenge.

Claiming to know what someone you've never met has seen in their life? That's a new low, and I think (or, at least, hope) you're perceptive enough to realize that few people, if any, actually pay attention to anything you say save to shake their heads at it. Maybe you're content to fill the role of ignorant-guy-who-can-write-in-sentences? They're fairly rare. I don't know.

I'm really curious, though, about what you do that apparently puts you around homosexuals on a daily basis, especially since you've said you're 17, which would leave you outside the hiring age of most jobs I can think of which might do that. School? Oh wow, how many gay people could you know there? Five? Ten? Even twenty is a tiny, tiny, miniscule fraction of the number in.. probably your state, much less the country or the world. In any case, how many different ones are there? I find it doubtful that each day brings a new homosexual to your doorstep.

Come on, syph, share. Tell us where you've obtained this vast quantity of experience and knowledge on the ways of gays. But, if you don't mind, try to do a better job than you did explaining why women can't support a family themselves, or shouldn't be out working, or whatever the point was you were trying to make in that other thread. I'm sure you remember it.

This topic never fails to bring out the most fearful and prejudicial people on any discussion board. So many people are predisposed to passing judgment on others. That's to say, if someone else doesn't think or act or believe in a way that conforms to MY values, then that person is wrong or immoral or without "appropriate" values. To pass judgment on someone else is to pass judgment on yourself.
YOUR values or point of view is just that...YOURS. What you believe to be true does NOT make it true for anyone else but YOU!
To make a generalized statement that a gay or lesbian couple can not raise a well adjusted and happy child is a judgment based on ignorance and fear. There is no reason that a same sex couple can't raise children. While such an arrangement might have it's own set of inherent challenges and idiosyncrasies, there is no reason that a committed couple can not overcome those difficulties. But then, I suppose that statement can be true of ALL attempts at raising a child, whether it is by straight or gay parents.
Frankly, I know of several (at least 10 couples) gay or lesbian couples raising children. Some of the children are from divorced parents and some have been adopted. However, in ALL cases the children are very well adjusted and easy going. Those children are certainly less fearful and more accepting of others than is demonstrated by their contemporaries. And, in spite of what I've read here about children being "beaten up" or accosted by their classmates...sorry! It just hasn't happened. That isn't to say that there haven't been ignorant things said to those children, there have been. But it's made little or no impact on them...It just didn't matter what others said to them. Bear in mind that to be persecuted in school is not anything that is particular to the children of same sex parents! Kids can be cruel little bastards if they feel they can get someone elses goat for ANY reason! Of the children of those couples there hasn't been any issues regarding the sexual orientation of their parents ... AND...none of the children...and there are 25 of them, are confused about their own sexual orientation. Of those children, not one of them feel pressured into going either gay or straight...Children aren't stupid! A person isn't "persuaded" to be gay. As a matter of fact, for most children raised in that environment, there is probably more openness and understanding regarding sexual orientation than there might otherwise be. There is certainly none of the ignorance and fear associated with the stereotyping that I've read here on this board!
I've often read about the "Christian" objection to homosexuals...about how homosexuals are immoral, perverse deviants, un-Godly, and in how they are so very wrong in "choosing" to be gay. But ya know, there is VERY convincing evidence that at least one of Jesus's diciples was homosexual. Imagine that! But then, I guess that Jesus wasn't really into the "judgment" thing too much... like so many good "Christians" are today...Eh? Oh well..."What you sow, so shall you reap." Judge not...




[This message has been edited by Ursus (edited 10-13-2002).]

In short, who wouldn't want to have two sexy mums adopt you?

In short, it is to the child's benefit to be adopted by loving, caring and involved parents...regardless of whether or not the parents are straight or gay.

quote:

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Originally posted by Spiffy McBang:

Come on, syph, share. Tell us where you've obtained this vast quantity of experience and knowledge on the ways of gays. But, if you don't mind, try to do a better job than you did explaining why women can't support a family themselves, or shouldn't be out working, or whatever the point was you were trying to make in that other thread. I'm sure you remember it.

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i think the point that you will support suzie or any other supposed new age equal minded person is apparent. i feel bad for people like you who devote so much time and effort into protecting a group that doesnt even give a fuck about you. no matter what i say your going to respond with that incredibly annoying equality bullshit (which IS bullshit since we dont all believe, act and feel thinkgs equally). you really are more sad than anything else, im going to laugh when one of these people you love and trust so much rapes your kid. maybe then you will realize not all groups are fit to be around children.

Didn't answer my question.. cool. Someone owes me ten bucks.

And, last thing before I more or less disavow knowledge of your existence here until you wiggle your head out of your ass.. it's far, far, far, far, far, more likely that I would have a daughter get raped by a straight man than have a son get raped by a gay one. I think it's safe to say I wouldn't hate all straight people if I had a daughter get raped.. I'd just castrate the motherfucker who did it.

more likely you would sit down and talk to him about his feelings. and statisticly a gay man is more likely to be a sex offender than a straight man. however there are far more straight men so in reality your correct about that. and no i wont be quoting anything since you like suzie ignore it anyway if it doesnt suite your views.

and your wrong about my job experience and contact with them, i have been working for four years and have encountered a great deal of homosexuals with the great majority of them being anal retentive assholes who try to use their sexual preference to gain special interest benefits. you have no idea who i am or where i come from, nor do you have the slightest idea of who i have know.

im not even going to respond to this mindless stupidity anymore

oh syph, is this another joke? Or are you still seing this world with the eyes of a kid? Still trying to blame it on Suze? Is everyone just attacking you, without seeing what you want to say?

"statisticly a gay man is more likely to be a sex offender than a straight man"

I thought we learned our lesson on that from south park. go watch the episode "cripple fight"

Where in the hell did you come up with statistical data that would support THAT sort of ridiculous conclusion? Please share your source! It's been said that it's possible to make ANY statistics prove whatever you want them to prove...if that is your objective.

Why, just the other day my wife and I were sitting around the dining room table perusing all of the world's crime statistics when, there right in front of me I found exactly what I was looking for! Indeed, statistics CLEARLY indicate that the greatest sexual offenders are hererosexual Mongolian men over the age of 70 who are left handed, drive donkey carts, 20/80 vision, speak with a lisp, and pick their noses... Yep! By golly! There it all was right there in black and white! Hell! I read it! It MUST be true!!! So much for YOUR statistics that say that GAY men are the most likely to offend!

[This message has been edited by Ursus (edited 10-16-2002).]

Get the whole gay "marriage" thing sorted out before moving on to the adoption item of the militant homosexual movement's agenda. Society is a good 10 - 20 years off even considering a homosexual relationship as normal, stable or fit to raise children.
Good luck on getting gay marriage legalized: I hear the Supreme Court doesn't give a shit.

Syphon. Haha. You talk about everyone else just playing to a fad. And yet, all you've done is adopted an orthodox realist view from ridiculous right wingers. Are you ignoring every point made against you?

What I really love is how you thought you would bring Freud in, without citing one source of imformation from him. Nice work. Since you seem to be so trusting in Freud, are you admitting that you wanted to kill your father and take his place next to your mother?

Before you quote dead people, make sure you know what you're talking about.
http://www.cyberpsych.org/homophobia/freud.htm

Yeah, so apparently Freud doesn't agree with you. I guess he was a blind PC facist too. He called for "Humanity, justice and reason" , sure sounds like a realist to me.

Until you have something worth saying, fuck off.

quote:

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Sigmund Freud: Letter to a Mother of a Homosexual

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Dear Mrs. X


I gather from your letter that your son is a homosexual. I am most impressed by the fact that you do not mention this term yourself in your information about him. May I question you, why do you avoid it? Homosexuality is assuredly no advantage, but it is nothing to be ashamed of, no vice, no degradation, it cannot be classified as an illness; we consider it to be a variation of the sexual function produced by certain arrest of sexual development. Many highly respectable individuals of ancient and modern times have been homosexuals, several of the greatest among them (Plato, Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci, etc.). It is a great injustice to persecute homosexuality as a crime, and cruelty too. If you do not believe me, read the books of Havelock Ellis.


By asking me if I a help, you mean, I suppose, if I can abolish homosexuality and make normal heterosexuality take its place. The answer is, in a general way, we cannot promise to achieve it. In a certain number of cases we succeed in developing the blighted germs of heterosexual tendencies which are present in every homosexual, in the majority of cases it is no more possible. It is a question of the quality and the age of the individual. The result of the treatment cannot be predicted.


What analysis can do for your son runs in a different line. If he is unhappy, neurotic, torn by conflicts, inhibited in his social life, analysis may bring him harmony, peace of mind, full efficiency, whether he remains a homosexual or gets changed. If you make up your mind that he should have analysis with me (I don't expect you will!!) he has to come over to Vienna. I have no intention of leaving here. However, don't neglect to give me your answer.


Sincerely yours with kind wishes,


Freud


P.S. I did not find it difficult to read your handwriting. Hope you will not find my writing and my English with a harder task.

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Freud, Sigmund, "Letter to an American mother", American Journal of Psychiatry, 107 (1951): p. 787.

The best part of all of this is that you'll read it, and yet, you won't respond because you said you wouldn't, so you can ignore the deconstrucion of your petty "ideas".

What was the point of that? Being an asshole isnt a mental illness either, assholes make bad parents...


If homos really wanted kids, they wouldnt be gay...

quote:

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Originally posted by Mike Dogg:
Get the whole gay "marriage" thing sorted out before moving on to the adoption item of the militant homosexual movement's agenda. Society is a good 10 - 20 years off even considering a homosexual relationship as normal, stable or fit to raise children.
Good luck on getting gay marriage legalized: I hear the Supreme Court doesn't give a shit.

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Ah, but you're so very wrong on this. A number of states have considered laws legalizing gay marriages, with all rights and privileges. Hawaii, at least, has such a law in place. Depending on how long the current rave of paranoia lasts- and it affects everyone who falls in the category of "different" to some extent- you may or may not be right about how long society will take to adopt the idea.

quote:

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Originally posted by Spirit of '22:
If homos really wanted kids, they wouldnt be gay...

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If being homosexual was a conscious choice, there wouldn't be any.

Then what, in your opinion, makes a good parent?

Is it not possible for homosexuals to have these qualities?

>>>>If being homosexual was a conscious choice, there wouldn't be any.<<<<

An alarmingly high number of normally straight girls try and act seductive or trendy by doling out lesbian experiences, I think you are a liar.

Those girls are still straight. Experiences do not make them homosexual.

But it does make my day a lot more entertaining. I mean, if a lesbian is sexy, but we know we can't have her, then a strait girl who pretends to be a lesbian should be double sexy because not only does she give tongue to other chicks behind the coke machine, but she's availible.

Um, what were we supposed to be talking about again.... ? Oh ya, gay adoption, sure what do I care. Now, about them lesbians but not lesbians....

I really could babble about this for hours.

quote:

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Originally posted by Spirit of '22:
>>>>If being homosexual was a conscious choice, there wouldn't be any.<<<<

An alarmingly high number of normally straight girls try and act seductive or trendy by doling out lesbian experiences, I think you are a liar.

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You're right. I know some girls who do that. Know what? None of them are lesbians. They're all bisexual. And if they ever have kids, they're probably going to do it the old-fashioned way.

I was referring to those people who are 100% homosexual, with no desire for or attraction towards members of the opposite sex. Some girls may wind up disliking guys to such an extent that they actively choose to be involved with women only, this is true. I believe it's a small percentage of all the lesbians in the world, but that doesn't make a difference- lesbians don't need adoption to have children. Some may wish to do so, for whatever reason, but they don't have to.

The issue of adoption by homosexual couples is, by and large, one reserved for men. You'd have to be smoking three rocks a day to think that more than a tiny, tiny, tiny fraction of gay males in America consciously choose to be that way. Thus, the argument that "if they wanted to have kids, they wouldn't be gay" holds no weight.

Kids who have gay parents are going to get the shit kicked out of them at school.

But being in a stable home with good parents is probably better than being in a home even if you do get beaten up a lot

once again, to mention the welfare of the child being the number one priority...

famacommie if you knew anything about freud you would realize his profesional psychological theories often conflicted with his personal views which is one of the reasons he was such a contraversial figure. and do you realize his condoning homosexuality as morally accaptable and suggesting homosexuals raise homexuals are two entirely different things.

Who says that they would raise homosexuals? How did the parents become homosexuals if their parents weren't gay?

Wouldn't teenage rebellion lead to a rampant heterosexual lifestyle?