i was surprised when i found out a lot of my friends get chicks drunk to bang them. we joke about it all the time but i didnt think they would go to that level. i personaly think if the girl cant think strait its rape. do you have any thoughts on this or have you done this. girls what do you think.

Yep, didn't you know, it's standard Male practice, it's not a joke and yep again your right to some degree it is rape or at lease can be if handled wrong, and believe me most guys are going all out to handle it wrong. Now there is a world of difference between that can a good drunken fuck, but if your not sure of your self then the line between these two things could be come blured. To be honest I can't see the point in having sex with a girl if there was no feed back, that's what makes for good sex.

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~Kameron
Carpe Aptenodytes!

Well, if the woman decides to drink enough to get drunk... then it was her decision. Now putting something in her drink to cause her to pass out is different. She wouldn't know about it. If she voluntarily got drunk then I don't see it as rape. The person should know that if they got drunk, they may do something they normally wouldn't do.

It's rape if she's not concious. Just because you get drunk and do something stupid doesn't mean you did it against your will. Still that's shady.

There's quite a common understand among women that if you go to a party to get drunk, you'll probably end up fucking someone. At least I would think there is, it happens often enough and no cow is that ignorant.

People who slip shit into the drinks are sick. Wtf, what thrill is there if the girl is unconcious?

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Common Sense Is What Tells You The Earth Is Flat

thats a good point but i still dont agree with it nor would i ever do that. allthough some girls get drunk on purpose just so they can not feel guilty about fucking you(i dont know why they would feel guilty but they do, damn religion). either way it is shady and they do not have the power to make their decisions fully. its not really a legal or even moral thing for me but rather a matter of respect. i just think thats disrespectfull to take atvantage of their distorted state of mind unless you have fucked before they were drunk (long time couple for example). maybe im just too nice but i always considered myself an asshole.

Even if the girl got drunk on purpose, if she's unconscious or barely conscious (in other words, if you have to pull her clothes off and are getting NO help because she doesn't have much clue what's going on), it's rape.

Getting a girl drunk to lower her inhibitions, while shady (as an understatement), is different than getting her drunk to the point where she can no longer think at all.

true, true

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Common Sense Is What Tells You The Earth Is Flat

Couple of years ago I lost my virginity to a bloke I hardly knew, and I remember very little because I was so drunk, just remember being in a woods.. I dont really know his face now.
I heard a while after that he was crying because he had raped me, and I hadnt thought about it like this.
I didnt remember making a decision to shag him, it just happened and suddenly it was the next day and I regretted it.
I dont know if I have repressed my memories or if it was alcohol, but does that count as rape? If he had asked me and I said yes when I was pissed, is this me saying it is ok? I really cant remember.
He did not get me drunk either, it was at a party, so its all my fault.
I think my inhibitions fucked off that day.

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bollocks

It was spring break of "84" when a lad woke up with a steaming pile of dump on his head. The last words he re-called hearing from the night prior to were..."I don't want to!"

quote:

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Originally posted by PUnKinpiE:
I didnt remember making a decision to shag him, it just happened and suddenly it was the next day and I regretted it.
I dont know if I have repressed my memories or if it was alcohol, but does that count as rape? If he had asked me and I said yes when I was pissed, is this me saying it is ok?

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If you can pull it together enough to say yes, regardless of if you remember it or not, then, at least in the legal sense, it's not rape (unless you were coerced into it.. but that's a whole other issue). In reality, it's such an incredibly gray area that if a fight starts over it, it's usually the word of one person who can't remember shit against that of another person who can't remember shit, possibly with a witness or two who can barely remember anything themselves.

if you're only avenue for getting chicks is slamming them full of liquor,

you have more problems than dr. mcgillicutty handle.

i agree with fred if you get into a situation where you are responsible for your impared judgement then its not rape its technically your own desicion and if you know your going to be promiscuous when you drink then maybe you should decide not to drink in excess if you dotn want to get laid that night but tehn again if someone drugged you then you didnt make teh decision at all and i consider it rape if you have no decision then its rape if you decided to then its not no matter what state you are in

rape is too fucking common.. i know a friend who had something put in her drink before being gang raped by five guys. she was "bought" for these guys from a friend.. its nasty as hell, basically if you ever have to question if its rape, then yes sir it is.
Janny

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They say I'm beat and rambling trying to put me down, but i take it and embrace it, and make it my own.

rape is too fucking sick. It happens to be one of the things that I detest most. I hope every rapist in the world has the most humiliating rape happen to him/her. Any homophobic male rapists should immediately get raped in the ass by a 500 pound trucker.

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Common Sense Is What Tells You The Earth Is Flat

even if you have to try not to remember it every day

Rape is a major cause of HIV transmission on both the side of the victim and the rapist.

The thing that sucks about real life is that everything you do sticks with you...

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Common Sense Is What Tells You The Earth Is Flat

Rape....hm...

I suppose my gender doesn't really come into question, but speaking as a male, I think that if you perform any act upon a person who is unwilling, you're raped. It's not just fucking, though... Grabbing a girl's breast at a party, forcing a kiss on someone who doesn't want it, groping someone when you know it's not welcome...these are all forms of rape... Granted, it's a fantsy for some, a fetish for others (I love rape games myself), but that's not an excuse to force your fantasy on unwilling victims... Considering how deeply our society has deled into kinks and quirks, I find it ridiulous that a person who could go through the risks and planning (if there is any) to actually rape a person wouldn't try to find a willing partner who is into roleplay...
And one other thing- I'm sick and tired of rape being a female issue- anyone who thinks men (or boys) can't be victims just doesn't think enough.

And now, I relinquish the soapbox to....

the soapbox is mine

but seriously you have to make the discretion between rape and sexual harasment. i dont think grabing a girls ass if she is against it is rape. its rude and your an asshole but your not a rapist for that. its not just if she unwilling perhaps she is ignorant and doesnt know any better at the moment because of alcohol? it takes two people for a rape to occur. a girl simply not being responsible does not justify a man to rape her. its wrong either wayi think. allthough the girl may be more accountable if she chooses to get drunk, high, etc.

Its not rape if shes drunk and is consenting. Of course it that was my sister Id still beat the guys ass.

you cant wish rape on anyone its like saying your going to kill the killers and thats just childish i can see how jericho sees that as reape because it is technically taking something from someone that they didnt want to give whether it be a kiss or sex i think it doesnt count if that person is drunk they did consent in a way and if they regret it tehn they have to live with it like we all have to live with our own regrets we all consented to our regrets and thats whay makes tehm so and a rape victum cannot regret rape for they did not make the choice you only regret if you made the joice

How can you be consenting if you're not of sound mind? If you're so drunk that you agree to sleep with someone you would never if sober?

quote:

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Originally posted by Suziegirl:
How can you be consenting if you're not of sound mind? If you're so drunk that you agree to sleep with someone you would never if sober?

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Perfectly valid point, but sex normally takes at least two people, the last I checked.. unless it's glaringly obvious that you've crossed the line from lowered inhibitions to blasted off your rocker, if you say yes, that's a huge green light to him.

Yes, a lot of guys will take it as a huge green light even if you ARE completely fucked up and babbled what might be a yes in German, but that's not the point I'm getting at..

its not just if they are unconsious. its if they are unable to resist and or in an altered mental state. those are two different things. (i.e. screwing a retard, unless you are married to them, is rape. instantly. they have neither the choice, nor the mental capacaty to 1 resist, and 2. know what the hell is going on. the same goes for having sex with a person who is drunk or drugged. they are not fully aware of what is going on. hence they cannot resist)

quote:

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Originally posted by literate:
"...SOUND LIKE A WHINING LITTLE KID WHO HAS A PROBLEM WITH THE OLDER GENERATION."

You're right, we should blindy bow down to the older generations for all that they have done: genocides, massive poverty, weapons of mass destruction, etc. HURRAH! HURRAH! I have no respect for some little ass (fascist) who carries a myth of some glorious past.

Nobody suggested you bow down. However, you have "no respect," as you say. The things you decry are things I myself have been fighting all my life. Do you really believe you can stand up to this dirty old world the way I have? Son, everyone I know bowed down in their twenties. I did not. And I have led a very difficult life as a result. All I get for it is disrespect from the very children of those who not only bowed down, but sold out big time. Thanks alot. Think you can handle it? I doubt it. I am not little or a fascist, and that you could talk to me with such a snotty mouth says more about you and your problems than about anything you believe for now.

"WHY DON'T YOU LEARN SOME SIMPLE MANNERS?"

Like keeping your fingers away from the fucking Shift key...?


This is a good example of what I have been attempting to illustrate about your internet society, which you would have me believe is superior to things that came before. Who decided that using caps is bad manners, is "shouting," or is anything other than using caps? It is a convention you young people have agreed upon, but you didn't ask anyone else if it is stupid, which it is. I have been in the writing game for longer than you have been alive, and yet you think it is your right to suddenly change all the rules and call me a fool. The only fool, son, is you.


"YOU CAN'T BE SERIOUS THAT SOMEONE WHO HAS VOTED ONCE OR TWICE HAS AN OPINION ABOUT ANYTHING POLITICAL THAT IS ON A PAR WITH SOMEONE WHO HAS BEEN VOTING FOR THE LAST THIRTY YEARS."

Most of the people who've been voting for 30 years are burnouts. The rookie voters actually have some hope and belief that they can change the world.

They will get over that naive sentiment as soon as they grow up and see the first thing about the world they want to change. The world is what it is. None of us invented it and none of us have been able to do a thing about changing it. Every time we try, it just gets worse, because our attempts at reform are manipulated to become tomorrow's tyranny. You have to live awhile longer to know what that means.


"ON SECOND THOUGHT, MY SON WOULD NEVER SOUND LIKE YOU DO."

Yeah, your son would either be some mindless fuck who turns to suicide if his favorite football team loses a game or a kid who's every thought is your sudden and extremely painful death so he could live a life where his drunken, close-minded, bigoted father doesn't beat him for thinking for himself.

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How sad that you speak of your own father that way. I do not drink, I do not follow football, and I do not have a son. I am neither drunken nor bigoted and I encourage anyone and everyone to think for themselves. You, my boy, are thinking the way your peers are telling you to. When you begin to do otherwise, if ever, you will see who your real oppressors are. Life did not start when you were born. Get over it. Your greatest allies lived and died years ago, generations ago, and when you spit on everything that came before you, you spit on them. One day, you will realize this and feel shame for what you do and say about them today.

super nova's first misconception:
Unless you don't know what the word patriarchy means, I'll have to say that you never gave wimmin the right to vote. Rather, you're old schooled ancestors succumbed to the pressures of their wives, daughters and mothers. When has the group in power ever willfully given up their dominance?

super nova's second misconception:
My age. I fail to see why it matters to you. So you can use a computer, ol' timer? If you're age is actually in relation to mine the way you claim, I'm guessing that you already collect social security.

super nova's third misconception:
The importance of age. The real reason Keyensian economics was allowed to take over the old way of thinking was due to the deaths of the old hardliners. Something that I learned in Eco 261. I remember those days, the teacher was old enough to collect social security, and remembered the economic revolution. He told us flat out that Keynes theories were only accepted after the old men who dominated the school had all died out.

super nova's fourth misconception:
I'd read better books in the first 17 years of my life than you have in your whole life. I read Hamlet, Joyce's Ulysses, Dante's Inferno, The Illuminatus Trilogy, 1984, A Brave New World, The Tao Teh Ching, Shogun, The Rime of the Ancyent Mariner, Kafka's Metamorphosis, and a variety of others. And no, none of these were for school.

super nova's fifth misconception:
I can't hack it at google? I mastered the quote system my first month here. Why would I even try to hack it at google? No, I'd rather frequent somewhere that features a few more intelligent minds, obviously not much more, though.

super nova's sixth misconception:
The number of times I've voted? What, you couldn't attack anything else so you surmised that you would go against my age on several fronts? That's pretty sad. I fail to see how voter participation is a decent indicator of intelligence in any way.

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Common Sense Is What Tells You The Earth Is Flat

quote:

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Originally posted by ACER:
It was spring break of "84" when a lad woke up with a steaming pile of dump on his head. The last words he re-called hearing from the night prior to were..."I don't want to!"

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thats some god damn funny shit

i have been gone for afew days so i wasnt simply avioding this. with that said where do i begin?

age is irrelevent when speaking about whether or not a person is intelligent or has valid opinions.

pointing out spelling errors does not make you look more intelligent than others.

asumptions are foolish. im not a "gen-x er". im 16 and once again that makes no difference. so what if i was and the computer comment was just petty.

please grow up or asociate with people of the same mentality as you. i dont like elitest assholes and i can do with out your condecension.

If you insist on people associating with others of the same mental strengths and weaknesses, but dont like elites, how low do you define yourself?

Must you continue missing the point?

An elitist is someone who thinks as if they're are superior to others, and acts as if others are inferior. Sometimes even friends. It's about avoiding people of a certain mindset, not lowering self-definition.

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Common Sense Is What Tells You The Earth Is Flat

But you believe in sticking with your own mental kind, and continue to hate elites. That would mean you associate with people like yourself, who are not in any way elite. So, how much lower than elite do you define yourself?

Personally, I hate the elitist attitude. It has less to do with seeing your self value, but more how you look upon others. I always regarded humility as a virtue. I think the only thing we're arguing over here is the definition of elitism. <sigh> Must we always argue of isms...

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Common Sense Is What Tells You The Earth Is Flat

I always regarded humility as a cop-out.

all im saying is that if a person is not mentaly on par with those he interacts with then there is not usualy a lot gained. as it was said above, elitists are egotistical but more over, look down upon others rather than putting themselves up on a pedastool (sp).
why is it when there is a good topic some one has to start a flame war and ruin the topic. ill tell you, its becasue we are not all on the same level mentaly.