Ok The Real, here is your response carried

into another forumn , possibly not the only

one that could've encompassed it , but out

of rock-n-roll in any event. Maybe there

should be a ???Moral Dilema?? forum.

Firstly let me say that I come here lazy and

unprepared. For the moment all I will say is

that should you wish to debate on a factual

point by point basis, fine- #1 revision w/

regard to the gayness topic is definitions.

I was not implying that my cat was a Lesbian,

as you say she was doing what came instinct-

ually to her to do. She was helping out in

any and all matters of the colony and with

a pioneering effort I'd not seen before or

since. She was also very very taken with her

own poop, she was very proud of it and when

I would scoop it out of the litter box she

would observe proudly as if to say "yes! do

please focus on that wonderful creation of

mine, lift it up appreciate it! I felt bad

flushing it down the toliet in front of her

so great was her pride in the stuff. That is

neither here nor there, just to validate your

assertion of past that I seemed a bit overly

attentive to my pets, mea culpa, so?

Now I will go back and look over what it is

you are requesting corroburation or the like

of on that I have stated, I don't recall at the moment, perhaps it will come back to me.

I whole heartedly beleive that the" hate

the sin not the sinner" concept is far and

away, imho, the most appropriate for anyone

who is not themselves gay to embrace, however

I think hate is far too narrow minded a con-
cept, and best left for lower life forms to dabble in given their overall inability to be 100% effective on any level.

Sans the impetus along with formal

plans currently in existence and in emminent

course of being embarked upon in the imme-

diate future. I think that ones overall being

is detracted from by investing in such a

wholly negative activity as hating. You say

that you respect the bible, well then, out

of respect, leave the evolutionary viability

of His creations up to HIm and the infinitely

wise biological happenstances that will serve

to move our species along are obviously out of your hands as well. I beleive that you are a person capable of 100% efficiency should you aspire toward it and I do not know if you do and if so in what areas. but anything less than that willingness serves to disqualify you, or it should, and I do not mean a disQ
by anyone other than you either!, any factual
exception to your adamant opinions begging
challengers worthy hear ye hear ye that you
yourself present along with the opinion must
be considered as a part to the whole and that you seem to have missed that point boggles my mind.
Do you suppose all women who have sexual relations are Lesbians ?or does the term also require some sort of individual adherence to the concept on a person by person level? I should think so!!You yourself have spoken against labeling, how then can you presume to
direct hatred toward a label that the adherence to is such a purely person by person matter? Can you define Gay? Homo? Queer? definitively? or can you offer your inherently tainted opinions re. such and then
put on your lab coat and tap your figurative pencil waiting for viable input? C'mon now
Given your rather lofty , idealistic, correct asfar as you are concerned(and why should any

other flawed member of this society,as you

have included yourself as one of and bemoaned
at the same time{therefore detracting from your credibility as a given)- why should you be concerned with the factual appropriateness
of anothers opinion, when yours is held with conviction and a conviction borne of one who
admits subscribing to the journal of faultable personas?

When I said that you detracted from yourself
I meant that in my opinion(quite possibly ill-begotten, but mine all the same) When it
comes to matters of factw/ regard to those bodies of knowledge that you are educated in,
words of the Real are as good as gold, and since you've shown no propensity to be deceitful, to the contrary, you have been
successful in showing yourself as very credible, mature and not of a flaky, temperamental or otherwise unsavory person. I only spoke in disappointment because I had been comfortable that your nature would never
serve to diminish your knowledge, and then saw that it very well could detract from the overall appeal of considering you in general.Not that I expected you to care about my opinion, just because I felt reasonable sure that you respected me enough to be open to it.

The info re cat poop etc. provides you with a convenient and factually notable piece
of information on which to, should you chose,
invalidate me overall, this is the concept that I was referring to in the other post.
I could as you say keep 9/10 of myself
hidden however I take much greater satisfaction in keeping as little hidden as possible in an ongoing effort to validate to
me for me, my overall credibility.

How's that?

ps- when my son was growing up , little that is, when he did something wholly unacceptable
I did not say BAD Boy! I said, Oh now that is a pretty bad thing for such a smart observant little boy like you to do. I never said Bad Boy, I think that was a good thing- as always you may draw your own conclusions.

MY primary reason for any comments construed as negative isto point out that
which is obviously of a lesser degree of overall credibleness, not in facts but considering the source- and then only because I would like to feel thatthose to whom I've
afforded(in my own mind) any special degree
of appeal above and beyond basic respect, that they genuinely possess and exude that which I've noted lest I be dissapointed in my
judgement as I drive down the street.

I am aware that this conncept calls for a rousing fuck you bitch, or not, just keeping
in touch.
You detract from yourself when you fail to define the specific properties of your opinions at the outset of any given discussion. If only for the reason of uniformity in character, which I assume would be a positive quality in your view as a chemist you must have some fondness for that which is stable and not prone to random, unforseeable, potentially damaging elements,yes?



[This message has been edited by winki (edited 08-24-2000).]

No winki, no "fuck you bitch" here. But I will say this. You misunderstand the way I think. I ask people to factually back things up to see if there is any data perhaps I don't know and I might even change my mind about the way I think. If I don't get it I try to drive people for it. It may be rude at times and simple, "Why do think that?" may do. However if you get someone pissed at you the usually try harder to defend their stance and may dig up more data than they would have if you ask nicely. It doesn't work on some people, but it does work on some people, skbch for example.

What do I say a homosexual is? Well someone that partakes in sexual activities with a person of another sex as a habit. A person that has tried it and wants no part of it isn't homosexual, they just tried something taboo, which I can understand I've done things people may call taboo, but nothing homosexual.

Now you may ask what I consider sexual, this is where it can get complicated. In the rawest form I must say I define sexual is:activities in a relationship that give sexual pleasure via interaction with sexual areas as the genitals, breast, anus. Also any activities that may lead to such things when done that are meant to lead to such things eg. kissing, necking, foreplay, etc.

This does include a simple kiss as a greeting, a peck on the lips or cheek, a handshake, a hug. So this means I would have to accept to see two guys kiss on the lips as a greeting if it's just a peck. Because I do two women as mother and child, girls that are friends. Though I can accept men giving a peck on the cheek as in Europe, it's hard to stomach two men kissing on the lips. To me it's the difference between the sexes. But I cannot say it's gay unless it is meant to lead to what I call sexual activities. I just myself could never kiss another man on the mouth nor do I care to see it. Again father and child are different. But guys don't kiss their buddies as a greeting or for any matter. A handshake, a beer, a bloody steak, or a "Hey how's it going?" does perfectly fine. Buddies do hug sometimes too, but usually when things are dramatic. Like a wedding, leaving for while, a greeting after a long time away, a family death, etc. It's not sexual at all.

We can see this in the world of mother nature as well. Grooming, bumping, standing close, submissiveness, all ways to greet and let the other animals in the group know you remember and still think they are pretty cool.

That's what I can think of for the moment. I don't consider what I say a label, calling people what they are is different. If a person murdered somebody, they are a murderer, it's not so much a label, because it isn't stereotypical. If someone is a homosexual, they are a homosexual. They are all still people, sure, but with either something isn't right upstairs.

Marijuana in your brain,
takes more time to ejaculate,

Roll up a spliff and trow away 'dee day, with mari'juana in ur brain.....

winki, as much as i respect you, including your reverence for cat shit and your reluctance to flush it severely weakened your arguement. whatever this is about. im just an innocent bystander

i have a t-shirt that says "innocent bystander" it is awesome

Idjiat, thats a fucken sexy song.

Hey! that makes you an

Evil-Innocent-Mastermind -Bystander!!!!!

I'm not sure what it was about... I think

it was trying to point out to The Real that

as much as I respect him, sometimes the stuff

he says detracts from the brilliant genius

image I like to foster of him. call it spun -

out shit for brains if you want

My friends act gay all the time (sometimes I play along too) and it totally throws the people of our small town off. Totally shocking to them as if a four headed girraffe had just strolled down main street. Funny stuff usually though.

winki,

you are awesome. your posts are always interesting to read. you come up with VERY good points. and you are the single most wordy person i have ever been in contact with in my entire life... you rule.

Bar Room/Winki,

I feel the same way. I am amazed, bewildered, awed, and sometimes confused by Winki's writing. To say the least I am very intrigued. I've never communicated with someone that could come close to using the english language as you do. I must know how you gained that skill and what you do for a living.