The topic pretty much says it all. It seems that everywhere I go on the internet, and even some of my pals at school (I live in NY, by the way) are waltzing around saying "I hate america!" "I want to move!".

Everyone is welcome to their own opinion, of course, but I think if these naysayers do some research on how people in America live and how people in other countries (besides canada and western european ones) live, they'll choose America any day.

Now I'm not denying that America is a bully when it comes to international politics and economy, but I think we've earned it. It's the same argument I used for MSFT's antitrust case. They earned everything they have. So what's the problem?

While our government isn't as well run as possible, it's a lot more well run than many other governments in this world. To use one person as the icon for the country (generally Bush) is unfair and unjust. What foreigners don't seem to realize is that anyone can run for president on paper (provided they're American and fit the age). You just need to EARN the capacity to run. Which brings me to my next point.

America is home to a CAPITALIST economy. Which means that the more work you do, the more money you get. There's no real limit.

So just because America is prosperous doesn't mean other countries and people can't be just as prosperous. You just have to try. So quit your complaining and do something about it, god damn it! Run for mayor, start a business, move to America, move out of America, do anything to make YOU happy! That's what America is about. Anyone can be happy if they put forth enough effort.

If you don't like America, be my guest and live (or keep living) in another country. But just because you're jealous of our prosperity, don't blame America.


**Wow that was a little rambling, but a good job on the whole, I think. Feel free to flame or respond with insightful comments (preferrably the latter)

Well Stated.

Moved to bitch and moan.

I agree though. America is great, other countries are late(behind).

though i am not an american and therefore i have not experianced what you are talking about first hand i feel that it is similar for britain. you made one very good point and that is that other countries CAN prosper. it is just taht England, north america and the likes were the first to GET THEMSELVES of of the dealock. around the 1800's britain woke up to the dreadful sate that it was in. through a seris of evoloutions and uprisings the system gradually changed. this was without the help of other countries. this is a REALLY cut down version of events but nonetheless my point is this, britain had no external aid in conquering poverty our country got ourselves out of this. THis is why it infurites me to see other countires getting millions and billions in aid. we had nothing. i am considering writing a detailed paper on this. any suggestions please. sorry about swayin (or attempting to) the topic.

That makes some sense, but only in the case of those who live in America and only have a problem with how they're treated as a citizen.

I agree that if you don't like America simply because you think tis a shitty place the live, then don't live there.

However, I think one of the biggest issues with people hating America, is the fact that they use the power they have to influence, and pish around other countries. But then again, you feel as if they have 'earned' the right to do so.

Now, why don't you tell me, how a country goes about earning the right to tell other countries what to do? How do they earn the right to kill people, for thigns that benefit them in no way, other than showing how much power they have? [Use your power to kill. Kill to prove you have power]

Tell me why the US had to kill people in Afganistan after the shit that happened on Sept. 11? Did the innocent people of the country hurt you? NO! Kill those who did, by all means, but innocent people are exactly that innocent.

But wait, many people say that those in Afganistan support the killing of Americans. And that is true. But tell me, did you even care when you heard Afgans where being killed by Americans? I doubt it.

They where taught that Americans where evil, and for good reasons. Now American chil;dren are being taught that Afgans, and Iraqies are evil, only for worse reasons.

The American government is nothign more then a group of well organized terrorists. Take a good look at how much your government contradicts itself through its actions.

Unfortunatly, you seem to think that people don't like America because they think the quality of living is bad. Nobody is gonna contest that the quality of living in the states is great. But that is far from the issue.....

u make a good point but the fact remains, u can't "earn" the right to be a bully. if u want everyone to stop whining and bitching about the US than maybe the US should stop whining when they get bombarded by planes. and! if america stop interfering with other cultures then maybe they'll leave US alone, i mean cmon, US has military bases in coutries that dont want them there! ur basically invading their countries, bet US wouldn't let russia or say china put a base in US would they? i dont live in america.

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America is home to a CAPITALIST economy. Which means that the more work you do, the more money you get. There's no real limit.
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not true, capitalism doesn't really help out the people on the bottum of the social ladder, i read a article on the main page and here's a extract

""Why are we hated in this day and age?". Well my unenlightened friends, I will tell you why you are hated. The U.S Government says it stands for EQUALITY. Now here is a fact - over 30 million Americans are homeless and live in poverty. That is nearly double the entire population of Australia. Over 35 million have no health care. Hundreds of children are born into poverty every day. Yet, the richest 10% of America control approximately 80% of the country's wealth. Is this your definition of equality? Article 3 of the Declaration of Human Rights is "Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of person". Do these homeless people have a "right to life" or "security of person"? Article 25 (i) says "Everyone has the right to a standard of living adequate for the health and well-being of himself and of his family, including food, clothing, housing and medical care and necessary social services, and the right to security in the event of unemployment, sickness, disability, widowhood, old age or other lack of livelihood in circumstances beyond his control". Well I'm sorry, but to the American Government this is bullshit. They continue to spend billions of dollars on weapons of MASS DESTRUCTION and NUCLEAR WEAPONS. Spending money on things that are used to kill people. It has been said that America has a "civil responsibility" to take action and take care of the problems faced by people worldwide (a popular reason to "liberate" Iraq). Well the truth is that over 2 billion people in this world are living on less than 1 dollar a day. Obviously the U.S doesn't give a flying fuck about these people, although it owns over 25% of the world's wealth. In fact America promotes this global inequality with the help of the World Bank and World Trade Organisation, along with other "agreements" and "acts". The North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA) with Mexico supposedly would bring prosperity for both countries, that the flow of cheap goods into America would increase living standards, and the flow of capital into Mexico would benefit it's economy. The opposite happened. The introduction of U.S agribusiness into Mexico meant that peasant farmers could not compete on the local market and were forced off their farms into the cities. In the cities, wages went down because of the large number of people unemployed seeking work. The agreement definitely benefitted the U.S but left Mexico in extremely poor condition. Article 27 of the Mexican constitution decrees that peasant farmers will always be entitled to collective land on which to grow crops. NAFTA abolished Article 27. It abolished the very rights of the people. The situation eventually culminated in the "Zapatista" or EZLN rebellion against the U.S backed Mexican PRI DICTATORSHIP. "

Everyone stop hateing on America. America is a fantastic country.

It's the government that fucks everything up. Hate them insted.

I hate the anarchist posers at school who just run around saying "Fuck America! I hate this country!" And if you ask them why, they just say "Because it sucks! america is gay!"

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Now, why don't you tell me, how a country goes about earning the right to tell other countries what to do?

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Tell me why the US had to kill people in Afganistan after the shit that happened on Sept. 11?

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I never said that America had that right. I completely agree with you on both counts. America is NOT perfect (nor is any country, for that matter) and we DO have our faults; one of which is bullying other countries. I'd like to say that I'm completely against war and conflict of any kind.

But, thanks to the old white men running our country, decisions get made that DO NOT reflect the opinions of the people. Our political system has its flaws, and unequal representation is one of them, most definitely. Every civilization in and before history has dealt with this problem in one way or another, and it's never been perfect.

The point I was trying to prove is that instead of running around spouting anti-American propoganda, the kids (mostly kids, I think) should focus on their own countries faults.

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But tell me, did you even care when you heard Afgans where being killed by Americans? I doubt it.

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I take that to personal offense. You're proving my point with that kind of talk. For your information, I did care. I think it's wrong that our military kills innocents, and it is highly irresponsible. But, again, it's the same situation I spoke of above. The actions of the few determine what everyone thinks of a country. Because some radical religious leaders bombed a building in the United States, some ignorant people (many in the US) think that all Afghans are evil. Ignorance has been around forever. It's unfortunate.

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The American government is nothign more then a group of well organized terrorists. Take a good look at how much your government contradicts itself through its actions.

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Again, I'd just like to state that the actions of the few should NOT, and I repeat should NOT influence your view of an entire country. Some people in our government are bad people, some are idiots, but most are well-meaning people who want to change our country for the better. Every country has its share of idiots and crackpots in office, it's a fact of life.

TheHurricane:

Maybe the US should stop whining when they get bombarded by planes? How would you feel if an Australian landmark of success was bombed by terrorists? Would you want someone to tell you to stop whining? I completely agree that the publicity 9/11 continues to generate over a year after the event is overblown and insensitive to the people who just want to forget, but it was a tragedy, and I don't think anyone is going to deny that.

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So just because America is prosperous doesn't mean other countries and people can't be just as prosperous. You just have to try. So quit your complaining and do something about it, god damn it! Run for mayor, start a business, move to America, move out of America, do anything to make YOU happy! That's what America is about. Anyone can be happy if they put forth enough effort.

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Wow, now I'm motivated to go out and get a job where I'll be locked into wage slavery. And as far as effort, it's very near inane. There is a thing called 'ascribed status', which is the socio-economic status you're born with. With a vast number of people born into poverty, or conditions near that of poverty you can't say "Well, if you work hard, you'll make it!". With c. 20% of Americans controlling c. 80% of the wealth in the country, you can't tell me that the remaining 80% of the population (all of them) will be successful when competing for the remaining 20%, now can you? Ahh, the wonders of the human predatory phase...

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Everyone stop hateing on America. America is a fantastic country.

It's the government that fucks everything up. Hate them insted.

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What makes a country? Hrm, how about a government. Hating the government is the same as hating the country. Think about it.

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I hate the anarchist posers at school who just run around saying "Fuck America! I hate this country!" And if you ask them why, they just say "Because it sucks! america is gay!"

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I agree, mainly because I have a strong aversion to stupidity.

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The American government is nothign more then a group of well organized terrorists. Take a good look at how much your government contradicts itself through its actions.

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Damned good point... where were the rest of you when the U.S. killed obscene numbers of Panamanians, Afghans, South Americans, or the people of Indo China?

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Maybe the US should stop whining when they get bombarded by planes? How would you feel if an Australian landmark of success was bombed by terrorists? Would you want someone to tell you to stop whining? I completely agree that the publicity 9/ 11 continues to generate over a year after the event is overblown and insensitive to the people who just want to forget, but it was a tragedy, and I don't think anyone is going to deny that.

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While this is not directed at me, I'll comment. Do you really think I give a fuck whether a couple of towers in New York are there or not? No, I don't. The United States reaction to the incident was very much overblown; c. 2800 innocent people died in New York, but how many innocent people has the U.S. killed? Lets see... c. 1 million INNOCENT people in Iraq, several million INNOCENT people in Indo China, thousands of INNOCENT people in Cuba, c. 40 thousand INNOCENT Panamanians, etc. Are you really that supportive of The Code of Hammurabi? What the fuck good does an eye for an eye do? Let us add it up... a whole fucking lot of none.

If you ask why I do not like the U.S. I would say the following: The United States is a socio-economically segregated society. The United States is rapidly descending into totalitarianism. The United States is one of the world's leaders in human rights violations. The United States government system is an oligarchy. Do I REALLY need to continue?

******
EDIT: A few minor grammatical errors...

[This message has been edited by logical-not (edited 12-17-2002).]

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Everyone stop hateing on America. America is a fantastic country.
It's the government that fucks everything up. Hate them insted.

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Originally Posted by logical-not::

What makes a country? Hrm, how about a government. Hating the government is the same as hating the country. Think about it.

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I Pretty sure the top comment meant "Don't hate the people, hate the government".

Question: If I critize the Government am I critizing myself? If I hate the government am I hating myself?

hahahahhaa i live in america . and i own all of u. so go shove it up your ass u stupid ass bitching countries.

Never in the history of the world has a country with so much power (America), been so kind to its adversaries, and the world, which is not the case most of the time (Romans, Holy Roman Empire, France under Napoleon, Islamic society, Chinese,) The only one I can think of is Britain, in the 1700s that was not quite so ruthless. America does not attempt to conquer the world with violence, but when our interests are at stake, we will fight for them. American policy is unique in that we do only a fraction of what we could do. We could have a vast empire, but instead give these countries a fair chance.

P.S. EVERY FUCKING CANADIAN I KNOW HATES AMERICA!!! WHY IS THIS??
Is it b/c u got the shitty part of the continent?

I was born on Sunset Boulevard in Los Angeles, do you hate me?

'if the anarchist gets into power, does he dissolve his own government?'

2likestuff: Why would you waste (expensive) trained troops against a country in a war for dominance, when you can simply utalise the wonderfull world of economics? This is simply the case of 'ease of domination'.

deptstoremook: Im trying to think of the 'landmark of sucess' as a terroist that I would try to destroy, and the best I can come up sith is Parliment House. Just one of the advantages of a lack of history (the other being not having to to learn about it).

And from what TheHurricane said, how many foreign bases of military power are in that vast land of yours?

This thread started off with a truism, in so far as the "hate America" line of thought is getting to be damned annoying.

However, maybe it's annoying because it is projected in an inarticulate fashion, generally by people who, whilst they may feel very strongly about the subject, have some pretty woolly ideas and or are completely on the ceiling.

The US should realise that irrespective of what the causes are, it is intensely disliked in just about every country on the planet. Whilst this is ironic considering that the very people who dislike the place revel in its culture and products, it is none the less true. The serious question that the US has to ask itself, is why are you so hated and what does that imply for the future maintenance of your present lifestyle?

Pandoras box is opened, the world now has access to the much discussed weapons of mass destruction. Yet apart from Israel and possibly the UK, no one seriously considers themselves to be in danger of being clobbered by these weapons. It is only the US that has such a screaming urge (and need) to deploy the National Missile Defence System; It is only the US and Israel that are panicking about small pox and anthrax; it is only the US that is balatantly stirring up a war in defiance of public opinion worldwide.

Try some of these for size as possible reasons for your being hated:

- Kyoto
- World Summit on sustainable development
- International Criminal Court
- The Iraq dossier on weapons

On all of these things you have managed to stuff up and annoy everyone;

Then ask the people of Okinawa, as just one example, why they dislike you so intensely -or rather, ask their young daughters.

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Originally posted by mzilikatzi:
Then ask the people of Okinawa, as just one example, why they dislike you so intensely -or rather, ask their young daughters.

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I don't get it :S

ok ok ok, im gonna take back or straighten a few of my past comments, and here they are

-american people are just like everyone else, i dont hate them
-american gov is just....... cant find a word low enuff
-american gov in power coz of american people..... hmmmmm
-i just think most (not all) americans are misinformed or dont really care.
-others countries are similar like australia, the prime minister has got to stop licking bush's ass. and i reckon the bali bombin was a warning to say "fuck off" from "terrorist" groups.
- so lets sum it up shall we? america is to at fault, dont compare or contrast to past just admit america is at fault, but that doesn't mean american people are bad people just that the people at power are stupid, arrogant and are gonna get killed sooner or later, i think a MAJOR reform is needed. umm anarchist wannabe's - gotta hate em.

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Originally posted by ComradeAsh:
I don't get it :S

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I was referring to the several rapes on the island committed by US servicemen

M

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Originally posted by g0alpost1:
hahahahhaa i live in america . and i own all of u. so go shove it up your ass u stupid ass bitching countries.

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the ravings of an idiot.........

American people = people = good
American government = megalomaniacal = bad

people ---> government.
But do the choices that the people make have that much (if any) impact on the decisions and actions of the people in power?

Representative democracy has a lot to answer for.

first of all, i can tell people have put thought into this, that i truly sincerly respect. the reason my comments seem harsh, is because i am very passionate about this particular subject and, i too, have put a lot of thought into this.

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Originally posted by deptstoremook:
Now I'm not denying that America is a bully when it comes to international politics and economy, but I think we've earned it.

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how can one say that we've earned the right to over-power a people who do not share the same insight as americans? if person A works really hard at diplomacy w/ a foreign nation, does that mean that person B earns the right to set forth their own laws and culture, even if B was a very simple minded fool?

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Originally posted by deptstoremook:
America is home to a CAPITALIST economy. Which means that the more work you do, the more money you get. There's no real limit.

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yes, its called greed. it's called overindulgence, it's called selfishness. it's called 8 to the gallon fucking SUV's (and we all have a right to bitch about this, since it's depleting the earth and destroying the atmosphere which we all share.) americans are SO rich that we arent even living it up, we are actually wasting our lives, ie video games, tv.

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Originally posted by deptstoremook:
So just because America is prosperous doesn't mean other countries [b]and people can't be just as prosperous. You just have to try.[/B]

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has it ever occured to you that their are people in this world with a different perspective than americans? maybe everyone doesnt want to live the greedy american lifestyle, maybe they can enjoy what they have, and learn to be happy w/ just raising a family. america is an evil nation because family is second to money. please dont believe me. just look at your neighbors, your friends and your own family and tell me how emotionally sound they are, they arent! parents think theyre doing a good job by purchasing the latest capitalist plot for their kid. parenting is understanding and communicating w/ your children, not buying them the newest video game to sedate them. it makes me sick to hear people say "the only reason why other nations hate america is cuz they're jealous" you must understand that people have different minds then americans.

everyone is bitching at the american government saying its their fault, but how many hours a day do you spend watching tv? how good of gas mileage does your vehicle get? how many of you are divorced at your children's expense because you and your spouse werent perfectly content? how many of you pay taxes that go to the isreali military? how many of you are doped up on prescription anti-depressents (but a doctor prescribed them to me, so they must be okay, right?)

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Originally posted by logical-not:
If you ask why I do not like the U.S. I would say the following: The United States is a socio-economically segregated society.

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right on the money. this is also why i laugh in the face when someone says that running for office is open to all citizens. now, whos going to win an election? that guy who's family is rich enough to put ads on tv, billboards, and can hire excellent pr agents. or say, the bricklayer, whos ideas are well thought out and correct but requires one to use their head (which is radically out of the political norm, ). the former, no contest. why? people are ghastly afraid of change, especially when that change requires people to let go of their selfish lifestyle.

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Originally posted by 2likestuff:
We could have a vast empire, but instead give these countries a fair chance.

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just like palistine huh?

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Originally posted by mzilikatzi:
... generally by people who, whilst they may feel very strongly about the subject, have some pretty woolly ideas and or are completely on the ceiling.

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you can spot a simple mind. its that of one who plainly accepts the environment they are given, not understanding where these things come from and why. im not saying you have a simple mind, mzi, i read your post and i feel you are very smart, which is why i scratch my head when i read this statement.

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Originally posted by TigerJK:
American people = people = good
American government = megalomaniacal = bad

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american people=ignorant and self indulgence

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Originally posted by TigerJK:
But do the choices that the people make have that much (if any) impact on the decisions and actions of the people in power?

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absolutely! for starters, protesting franchises that support isreal and refusing to purchase products there, or, swing to the right wing, and theres domestic terrorism. both of these will impact the government and course citizens into action. one thing i hate is one who says "o well, everyone else is doing it. it would be pointless if i didnt". its called integrity people.

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Originally posted by mzilikatzi:
This thread started off with a truism, in so far as the "hate America" line of thought is getting to be damned annoying.

However, maybe it's annoying because it is projected in an inarticulate fashion, generally by people who, whilst they may feel very strongly about the subject, have some pretty woolly ideas and or are completely on the ceiling.

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I think he means that the people who speak loudest on either side of the argument are those who also have the least understanding of either position.

NYK, I agree, I dont know if that was what the other person was trying to say but I agree with the point you made anyway. I dont want to be rated by Bushes accomplishment cause then I'd be nothing! I love America its been good to me! Given the chance I'd probably go a round with Bush. I dont want to be judged with the rest of the Idiots in our contry everyone look at your own country and honestly tell us you dont have idiots over running your contry. The idiots are everywhere.