i take cheap shots at the government all the time. see my post in BLTC about canada takin a step forward towards marijuana legalization. i dont get into politics at all, dont really care. i have a felony, im not allowed to vote, so theres not much i can do. i admitted to my error before you even posted.

before i stated my politics and 'piece of shit' remark i did say

quote:

---

i would love to think that this could improve the bleak situation that addicts face when theyre busted

---

that should tell you that my initial train of thought was exactly what i said my point was. maybe letting my personal feelings get in the way deminished my point and lessened its effect on other readers who may disagree with my politics.

i dont agree with the state of how addicts are treated, you can read numerous posts about it in my forum. i do hope to move to canada one day, or maybe switzerland, although they have very high taxes there. i do think that pres. bush is a piece of shit, and i have even less respect for his brother, being that the whole election was won in his state on some silly bull shit. obviously as a drug user i dont have a problem with people using drugs, but i did say that ive never smoked crack, nor even seen crack. me smokin pot and taking acid when i was young isnt comparable to smoking crack. you dont see people on the street robbing people for lsd; and crackheads dont have any connection to spiritual enlightenment or self discovery; that im aware of. and when i did get caught for drugs, i got the charge, not a rehab stint. the police came to where she was, but left with nothing. would that have happened to me? you? any other person caught red handed with crack while in a rehab facility?

the whole thread was a cheap shot, could you not tell by the thumbs up i gave it? my family history is personal because im not an elected official in charge of running the country. my family doesnt choose to be in the public eye, and the public wouldnt give a shit about my family. the public didnt entrust my family to run one of the largest states and the country as a whole. i didnt make the arena public, they chose to be where they are, probably more than we did with the nonsense that went on in that election.

You go boy!

quote:

---

Originally posted by junglist:
my family history is personal because im not an elected official in charge of running the country. my family doesnt choose to be in the public eye, and the public wouldnt give a shit about my family. the public didnt entrust my family to run one of the largest states and the country as a whole. i didnt make the arena public, they chose to be where they are, probably more than we did with the nonsense that went on in that election.

---

True.

And when Billy Bubba took office, he was adamant about keeping his kid out of the public eye. I guess you feel that's a one way door.

The Florida election? Come to Politics and we'll talk about that one.

Nox

I think it was a worthy post.

Anyone ever read or read about Fortunate Son?

This dude wrote it, a biography on GW Bush, which among other things talked about how Bush snorted cocaine when he was younger.

Bush never denied snorting the coke... but he harrassed and demonized the author, made sure he would never work again, and basically ruined his life. Just for telling a story that was true, needed to be told, but one he didn't want released.

I think it is a little insane that anyone who snorts coke, if they get caught, will have their right to vote taken away, never be able to get student financial aid, probably do some jail time, and have a hard time finding a decent job, yet our own president has done coke and nobody gives a shit because he's so fuckin cute.

Seriously, unless he thinks that his actions as a young man would warrant him going to jail and never becoming president, it would be THE RIGHT thing to do to change the law. But the I mean since when has a Bush ever done anything right.

I think Bush's presidency is changing everything. The entire world now, even our "allies," look at us as bullies because that monkey-faced piece of shit said "you are either with us or against us" before we even had proof Osama did it. Brits think Tony Blair is a little pussy for supporting Bush after he made that threat to the world.

Arabs hate us more than ever, and rightfully so. His actions, if anything, made it more likely that more arabs will come to our country looking for revenge on us.

The media seems to have become even less impartial under GW's reign also. Remember how they criticized Clinton? Nobody dares take on Bush, probably with good reason. Nobody would have any fucking clue WHY Osama hit us in the first place unless it had been posted on the internet on independant news sites.

I'd say maybe 5% of Americans or less know why he did it. Isn't that newsworthy though?

I case anyone in here hasn't heard, it was because of our military and financial support of Israel. We give Israel weapons and money for weapons, Israel kills arabs, arabs hate us. That is logical. I believe Bush stated on TV the reason Osama attacked us was because "arabs view themselves as the losers of the world."

If that doesn't sound like something a kindergarden teacher would say to help her students understand I don't know what would.

I need to end this post before the Secret Service shows up at my door. If anyone is interested in checking out Fortunate Son, it is published by Soft Skull Press:

http://www.softskull.com/

quote:

---

Originally posted by www escapetwice com:
I think it was a worthy post.

---

I don't. Your politics are one thing. Demeaning family over which you have no control is another...and that is the point I made to junglist.

quote:

---

Originally posted by www escapetwice com:
I think Bush's presidency is changing everything.

---

And the Clinton Presidency didn't?

And the First Bush Presidency didn't?

And the Regan Presidency didn't?

Every Presidency changes everything. That's why the job is so important.

quote:

---

Originally posted by www escapetwice com:
The entire world now, even our "allies," look at us as bullies

Arabs hate us more than ever, and rightfully so.

---

Our "allies" don't like us because President Bush firmly asserted that US foriegn policy would be what was in the best interest of the United States. The Europeans couldn't handle that since the President's predecessor had kowtowed to the Europeans.

I don't see how the Arabs could hate us more. Remember the embassy bombings, the USS Cole, the first WTC attack, et al. And your bit about "justifiably so"...you can put that where the sun doesn't shine.

quote:

---

Originally posted by www escapetwice com:
I need to end this post before the Secret Service shows up at my door.

---

Total drivel.

Nox

I don't it has anything to do with "demeaning" family, it mearly points out politicians who are hypocrits.

Jeb Bush's daughter has a terrible disease, and I feel sorry for her. Addiction is a terrible thing.

The story only illustrates how the powerful get "treatment" and the poor get jail. It's not a new story or anything, but at least the next time Jeb Bush opens his mouth about the "War on Drugs" we can tell him to shut the fuck up.

J.C. Stanton

Clinton didn't "Kowtow" to Europe, he worked with them, whereas Bush seems to think that he has the European countries on strings and he can bully them into doing what he wants them to.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Cokeboy:
Clinton didn't "Kowtow" to Europe, he worked with them

---

Spoken like a true European.

Nox

quote:

---

Originally posted by J.C. Stanton:
I don't it has anything to do with "demeaning" familyJ.C. Stanton

---

Yes it does. I repeat this post for your information. Now tell me how this relates to the treatment of Jeb's daughter.

quote:

---

Originally posted by junglist:
i cant wait till they get that piece of shit out of office.

---

I stand by my point.

Nox

[This message has been edited by Nox (edited 09-11-2002).]

did you totally miss the sentance before that, again? can i not include my opinion of the president after making my initial point?

once again:

quote:

---

i would love to think that this could improve the bleak situation that addicts face when theyre busted

---

that was the very first sentence that i wrote in my post after the story.

after that:

quote:

---

maybe letting my personal feelings get in the way deminished my point and lessened its effect on other readers who may disagree with my politics.

---

appearantly you were one of the ones that this pertains to.



[This message has been edited by junglist (edited 09-11-2002).]

No, I did not miss that.

You may find this difficult to believe, but I totally agree with the gist of your post. I have an extreme abhorrance of the different justice standands between the different socio-economic/fame-nonfamous groups. Unfortunately for us, the roots of this problem go into prehistory and I like it not.

My many reposts center around the theme that families should be separated from politics. This is one of the exceedingly few things I agree with William Jefferson Clinton on. I wish (and only wish) I had the control of my own children such that they will never do that of which I am ashamed. Unfortunately, my children will do unto me as I did unto my parents and shall shamelessly embarass me even though I know I have done my best to keep it from happening.

Another point that I agree with some posters about is the danger of cocaine and crack cocaine. Jeb Bush's daughter is an example of "what's wrong with the cocaine picture". Unfortunately for the world, she is the daughter of a high visibility politico who some people hate.

Let's move on to the treatment (special?) of a certain Mr. Daryl Strawberry. There are myriad other names we could mention but that would only serve to beat the point to death.

Do I wish we had a perfect world were all those needing drug treatment actually got it? No only YES, but .... Yes.

Nox

i have crack in my pocket right now
and im about to go smkoke a rock

hence your nickname.

Nox,

If families should be kept out of politics, then why should your family be used to help you get elected? Candidates have been using the "Log Cabin" and "family oriented" ideas as backdrops for their campaigns since there were elections to run in.

If I wanted to keep my family out of the spotlight, I certainly would not wave them around like an American flag up on stage trying to charm the votes out of people.

The fact that your personal life is no longer personal is one of the double-edged swords of being a public persona. It all goes back to High Society, and the desire for the lower classes to hob-knob with the big guys.

Families cannot be kept from politics as long as we have politicians creating and enforcing laws about our personal lives, which they are completely unwilling and unfortunately are not required to adhere to.

This chick in Florida, she disgraced and insulted herself and her family. She knows all too well how she is in the public eye, addiction is a powerful thing, but she should not be pitied for her course. SHE is responsible, not Junglist for having a harsh opinion from being on the other side of the spectrum.

Junglist, by the way....
President Bush's two daughters have already been busted for trying to use a fake ID to get drinks at a Texas restaurant. Another incident involved one of them being caught with weed. I think that all cases were brought to court, and they faced community service or something. I hate GWB's politickin' too, but at least he let his daughters go to court for their crimes.

nuttin better then some cookie

this is still making me want to puke, so i brought it back. below are some articles that i find relevant, even if they were written before the latest incident with his daughter. its not the first incident. she was also arrested in january of this year for trying to purchase xanax with a forged script. even after this incident, he has tried to strenghthen drug laws for non-violent offenders, and tried to cut funding for rehabilitation.
__________________________________________

Bush attacks drug treatment ballot initiative

Friday, August 24, 2001

By MIKE BRANOM, Associated Press

ORLANDO � A proposed ballot initiative that would require courts to offer
treatment to certain drug offenders came under attack by Gov. Jeb Bush on
Thursday.

The initiative, called "Right to Treatment and Rehabilitation for Nonviolent
Drug Offenders," would force judges to grant treatment or rehabilitation to
anyone charged with simple possession of drugs or drug paraphernalia.

"To suggest there should be no penalties for continued drug use is to stick our
heads in the sand," Bush said.

Only first and second-time drug offenders would be eligible for treatment.
Also, those accused of selling drugs and offenders facing accompanying
charges of theft or violent crimes, drunken driving or other serious crimes
would be barred from the treatment alternative.

A California group supported by billionaire financier George Soros is trying
get the constitutional amendment on Florida's 2002 ballot.

The idea is modeled after California's Proposition 36, approved by voters last
year.

Sydney P. Smith, chairman for the Florida Campaign for New Drug Policies,
said Bush's criticism is a typical misrepresentation of the proposed
amendment.

"People keep misstating what the law is because they don't have a prayer (of
stopping its approval)," Smith said.

The initiative needs petition signatures of 488,722 Florida voters to make it on
the ballot.

The petition effort recently surpassed the 48,869 signatures needed to trigger
a review by the state attorney general and then the Florida Supreme Court to
ensure the measure complies with ballot laws.

Among the requirements are that the measure be only about one subject and
that the wording be clear.

Bush made his remarks at a luncheon in Orlando honoring the 30th
anniversary of the Center for Drug Free Living.

The center is one of 78 community and law-enforcement programs helping
people fight substance abuse that will receive $4 million in grants from the
state, Bush said.

"Prevention is the key to reducing drug abuse in our state," Bush said.
"Preventing the illegal use of drugs, alcohol, and tobacco among our young
people now will save us a myriad of costs later � social, economic and, of
course, human.

"These grants will go a long way in aiding our prevention efforts."

_____________________________________________

Fla. Cuts Prison Drug-Treatment Programs
1/30/2002



Budget cuts approved by the Florida Department of Corrections mean that many drug-treatment programs for inmates will be eliminated, the Associated Press reported Jan. 28.

Sterling Ivey, a spokesman for the corrections department, said the $13 million in budget cuts will result in the elimination of in-house treatment programs at all but four of Florida's 55 prisons. Those four prisons have federal matching grants to partially fund the programs.

The budget cuts also will reduce by 34 percent the number of beds available to treat individuals with addictions at 20 residential treatment programs throughout the state.

Ivey said that prison authorities are concerned about the impact of the budget cuts. They have asked Gov. Jeb Bush to restore a portion of the funding for next year's budget. The budget cuts take effect Nov. 1.

_________________________________________

quote:

---

By Jeb Bush"I know being involved in this as a dad how pervasive this is," Bush said. "And how when you love somebody and they're going through tough times, how it just sucks the life out of a family."

---

yup, nothin like prison to reinstill that life.

___________________________________________

Sponsors of Florida's Right To Treatment and Rehabilitation for Nonviolent Drug Offenses ballot initiative were forced to withdraw the measure because of delays by the Florida Supreme Court, Alcoholism & Drug Abuse Weekly reported April 22.

"It has been eight months since we submitted signatures to trigger Supreme Court review, but the court still has not ruled," said Dave Fratello, political director of the Campaign for New Drug Policies, which is sponsoring the Florida ballot initiative. "With barely more than two months left to collect signatures, it would be far too expensive and uncertain to try to make this November's ballot."

The measure called for treatment instead of incarceration for first- and second-time nonviolent drug offenses.

Drug-court professionals, state officials, and some state lawmakers were pleased that the initiative has been withdrawn. John Daigle, executive director of the Florida Alcohol and Drug Abuse Association, said the initiative was seriously flawed.

He and others opposed to the measure said the state should focus on implementing the governor's drug strategy, which addresses closing the treatment gap.

Fratello said the campaign would work towards placing the initiative on the November 2004 ballot.
_____________________________________________-

he certainly isnt trying to push that one through either. maybe by 2004 his daughter will be better.

this lady says everything i want to say, and more eloquently, and without vulgarity and profanity. since that seems to have gotten in the way of my point last time i have decided to use her words instead of mine.
_____________________________________________-

quote:

---

Sept. 16, 2002 | I feel nothing but sympathy and concern for Noelle Bush. Her latest stumble on the rocky road to recovery -- being caught with crack cocaine at a drug rehab center -- shows that she is in desperate need of help. As a parent, I can also easily empathize with the anguish Noelle's father, Florida Gov. Jeb Bush, must be experiencing. And I'm in total agreement with his insistence that his daughter's substance-abuse problem is "a private issue."

But when I think about the heartless stance the governor has taken toward the drug problems of those less fortunate and well connected than his daughter, my empathy turns to outrage.


While Noelle has been given every break in the book -- and then some -- her father has made it harder for others in her position to get the help they need by cutting the budgets of drug treatment and drug court programs in his state. He has also actively opposed a proposed ballot initiative that would send an estimated 10,000 nonviolent drug offenders into treatment instead of jail. I guess what's good for the goose gets the gander locked away.

Of course, Jeb's wildly inconsistent attitude on the issue -- treatment and privacy for his daughter, incarceration and public humiliation for everyone else -- is part and parcel of the galling hypocrisy that infects America's insane drug war on every level.


The latest example of this madness is last week's early morning DEA raid on a medical marijuana club in Santa Cruz, Calif., that caters to terminally ill patients. Although the hospice-style operation has been lauded by local law enforcement officials for its caring and ethical approach, federal agents stormed the place with guns drawn and chainsaws whirring -- leveling its pot garden, handcuffing ailing patients (including a paraplegic) and carting off its founder and director, Valerie Corral, a woman who has been called the Florence Nightingale of the medical marijuana movement.

So much for the president's compassionate conservatism, and its conservative consistency. Back when he was running for president, candidate George W. Bush declared that medical marijuana is a states' rights issue. "I believe," he said, "each state can choose that decision as they so choose." Although the mangled syntax makes it a little hard to tell exactly what the president was getting at, is it consistent with allowing John Ashcroft to order a holy-roller war against cannabis clubs in California, even though it is one of 12 states that have decriminalized the use of pot for medical purposes?

Surely there has got to be a better use of our limited law enforcement resources than busting grievously ill cancer and AIDS patients searching for relief from their suffering. How about unearthing a terrorist cell or two?

And the White House continues to bombard us with those offensive -- and expensive -- TV spots implying that youthful drug users like Noelle Bush are the moral equivalent of Mohammed Atta. Maybe her Uncle George can get her an audition for the next round of taxpayer-funded ads. Show her pulling some crack out of her shoe while saying, "I helped blow up buildings."

Or does that kind of overheated and stigmatizing rhetoric only apply to those other, non-Bush-family youthful drug users? After all, a glaring double standard has been a hallmark of our nation's drug policy for decades. It's why African-Americans make up only 13 percent of the country's drug users but 55 percent of those convicted of drug possession and 74 percent of those sent to jail on possession charges. And why the youthful indiscretions of the rich are routinely treated with a slap on the wrist and a ticket to rehab while poor kids are shipped off to prison.

If America's drug laws were applied consistently, Jeb Bush and his family would be evicted from their publicly funded digs, just as people living in public housing can be thrown out of their homes if any household member or guest is found using drugs -- even if the drug use happened someplace other than in the housing project. And Noelle could find herself joining the tens of thousands of young people unable to get a college education because of a provision in the Higher Education Act that denies financial aid to students convicted of possessing illegal drugs.

But the rich and powerful are judged by a very different set of rules. That's why the staff at Noelle's rehab center tore up a sworn statement incriminating Noelle even though the facility's standard policy is to turn all such matters over to the police.

If, through her pain, Noelle Bush can help open her family's minds as well as their hearts and force them to rethink their disastrous drug policy, the nation -- and millions of young Americans in particular -- will owe her a tremendous debt of gratitude.

I wish her much luck.

---

by Arianna Huffington
http://www.ariannaonline.com/

________________________________________

in response to the raid on the santa cruz co-op last week the mayor of santa cruz was handing out free pot to people who use it as medicine today. story link below.
http://www.nbc5.com/health/1671343/detail.html

i saw that shit on CNN, it was sweet! i was like cheering! my roomy was pissed!

junglist,

I repeat what I said before.

Pretty please with sugar, summarize the articles, then we can talk about your opinions of same. This is also on the marquis for the politics forum.

I asked this question before and you never answered...Did you read about Al Gore's kid?

Now I will expand the question...Do you feel safe with another drunk on the road?

Your politics are showing through. You claimed that your original post was about how politicians get "special treatment". The fact that Al has been able to keep this story under wraps should outrage you but obviously it doesn't. Rather than show objectivity and attack Al, you refurbish this story and ignore the other.

So much for your claim of objectivity.

Nox

this isnt about my politics, Nox. How can he keep cutting funding for rehab programs and strengthening laws against non-violent drug offenders after these incidents and expect people like me to not feel outraged? al gore isnt doing that, hes not even in the position to do that. jeb bush is still trying to make penalties harsher for non-violent offenders, and trying to keep addicts in prison without the chance of rehabilitation, while his daughter gets rehab for forging a script for a controlled substance, a felony, and also gets caught with crack cocaine, another felony. in my opinion, jeb bush should pardon all non-violent drug offenders in florida prisons, and those in federal prisons who were convicted on charges from his state. or the feds should step in and take over his daughters case.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Nox:
Did you read about Al Gore's kid?

---

Does Al Gore even have a job right now? Is he in a position to try and affect the current drug laws? I'm pretty sure the answers to these questions are no. If I'm wrong then this next part is irrelevant, but...

This would make your point invalid against junglist's argument that Jeb Bush is bashing bills that would offer treatment to nonviolent offenders, but refusing to accept the same for his own daughter, in the state he runs no less.

Al Gore is a public figure, but what are his views on crime and punishment? Don't let your politics ruin your argument Nox, they're starting to shine through.

I will try this one more time. Junglist stated initially that he was opposed to "special treatment". It appears that rather than brooch that subject, the attempt is to now change it.

What say you about special treatment? Al Gore is as much in the middle as Jeb Bush.

Nox

Basically I desire something I can never have, equal rights. If I were strung out on pills and trying to get a fake scrip filled, treatment would not be my first option. More than likely I would do some probation or community service and pay some fines with some light jail time. I would have tarnishes on my permanent record that Jeb's and apparently Al's daughter will not have.

When the addict is someone they don't know, it is a matter of punishment, but for a close friend or relative it's suddenly a "private matter". This is where i agree totally with junglist. His politics (to me) do not render his opinion invalid. After all, his quote was:

quote:

---

i cant wait till they get that piece of shit out of office.

---

not:

quote:

---

i cant wait till they get that republican piece of shit out of office.

---

Either way it seems that you may have assigned this political bent to his argument by assuming he's against Jeb because of party politics, and not because of the fact that he's a hypocrite like most of the rest of our government.

I don't disagree with you Nox, except that I think you must realize that you are using your political opinion to accuse someone else of letting politics rule their opinion, which is a lot like the pot calling the kettle black.