I was in the Torah chat room on yahoo.com

Muslims and Jews fighting and a few Christians in between.

Its madness. Im not saying our religions are madness but Christianty is taking the Jewish faith a step father while Islam comes from the other child of Abraham or ibrihim as they call him.

Muslim put up a good fight to some degree. I meant not to get into a religious debate because i dont have a bible on hand to quote verses from. But he challenged me so I did the best I could. He told me "Why should jews occupy this land, they were only here for 55 years" My response was they returned from exile when the Romans casted them out around 300 AD.

He told me that "Jews in the years of occupation had only occupied that land for around 100 years" during the time of david or something. I told him thats not true.

His next argument was that the Jews today in israel are Russian and Polish jews" and that it was arab jews who occupied the land. I somewhat agreed with him but pointed out that from Iraq to south africa and Northern most parts of europe all have jews with the same DNA bloodlines. Scientist proved this some years back. A Jew is a Jew and a promise is a promise.

I told him that God promised this land to Moses and Arron, how could he argue this. he never reponded. this has happened several times before with me in this pointless debate. 3 times I believe and everytime the argument stops there. Why cant muslims answer this. I did not read the koran but have had the koran read to me during a muslim prayer shared with my paki neighbors. I recall them speaking of moses and speaking of ishmael who was the son casted out by Arbaham (If my memory serves me right) and yet they claim they are the children of Ishmael.

this war will never end because both sides are on oposite sides of the table and as someone who practices christiany i feel am taught to believe in the Jewish God, the God who promised moses and arron the land of Israel as well as Abraham. For this I am condemed. For Americas involvment the USA is condemed. and we will never see an end to this bloodshed until a Buffer zone is accepted or until Christ returns himself.

Seperation of Church and State.

As long as they see the USA as a Judeo-Christian nation, they will have problems with us. I am not Christian, and I don't want to be a mediator for their childish whining.

Why is it that the majority of Christians are converts from around the middle ages? If we just stuck with our own roots, there would only be Jews and Muslims.

Well, whatever.

Actually, if we stuck to our roots we'd be sacrificing animals and praying to 14 different gods while doing a rain dance and painting on cave walls while eating flowers.

This may come as a shock to you, but Zionism is a fairly recent philosophy that the majority of the world's jewry oppossed as heretical and blasphemous until after WWII. The belief was that God gave them the land conditionally as long as they followed some rules, and that God allowed the Romans to exile them as punishment for their sins, and that they are only to claim the holy land in the time of the Messiah, and that to try and take control of the holy land by force will bring disaster. That was very standard belief until very recently in history. There are still tens of thousands of Orthodox Jews today that hold that belief, and justify keeping it with the observation that the stated purpose of Zionism was to make a land that was "safe" for jews, but that Israel today is one of the least safe places for Jews to live in, and has fanned the flames of anti-semitism worldwide. They can be seen holding hands with Muslims in non violent protests. Actually, before Zionists came to claim Palestine as exclusively theirs, the minority of Jews and Muslims lived there pretty much in peace. Jews were treated a lot better under the Muslims in the Ottoman Empire than in Western Christian nations. The native Jews living in Palestine weren't interested in Zionism. The ones who were, were the immigrating Jews from Western nations that held colonial views.

Throughout history, Judaism and Christianity have far more against each other than Judaism and Islam. Remember? The ol' "You jews killed jesus" thing? Until Zionism and colonialism of Palestine, Jews were safer in Muslim nations than in Europe.. ironically considering the standard dogma of today.

quote:

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He told me that "Jews in the years of occupation had only occupied that land for around 100 years" during the time of david or something. I told him thats not true.

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Actually, he was mostly correct. Jewish rule of Palestine was a dot in history compared to the centuries of Muslime rule. Even before Hebrew rule, they took it over from the Canaanites.

Timelines are here..

http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/static/in_depth/world/2001/israel_and_palestinians/timeline/


[This message has been edited by TheMouse (edited 06-06-2002).]