For those of you who have an attention span of over 10 seconds, read this: http://www.zondervan.com/desk/green.asp

quote:

---

If you agree that the true right of free speech is accurately carried out when self-restraint is responsibly exercised, please display the Green Ribbon for Responsibility in Free Speech on your web site.

---

Does anyone else see what's wrong with this? I have free speech but I'm not allowed to use it. If I wanted to tell them that they're wrong, it's okay but if I want to tell them that they're fucking morons, it's not okay because I'm not using my free speech responsibly. Fucking hell, "restraint".
It's like they claim to support free speech but they'd tell Galileo to shut up because he's offending people.

I feel like stressing my right to free speech, this site has inspired me.

There's a black person in my family tree.
He's still hanging there.

I have sex with retarded people because they don't worry about diseases.

White people are nature's clowns.

I hate eating vegetables...
The wheelchair hurts my teeth.

Oh yeah, women are nature's punching bags.

Those "ribbons" are for people who can't take alittle criticism and are on the edge about "vulgar" terms, take it easy.

"this same freedom is being abused and used irresponsibly as a smoke screen to communicate in a vulgar, profane, violent, and insulting manner."

THESE are the people hiding behind a "smoke screen" AKA. their little compain of ribbons! you can't keep trying to make the world so perfect, its always going to be harsh. and this is on the INTERNET there talking about? the internet is oh so much different than than real life.. if someone bothers you on the internet, you can just put a block on your email or stop responding to their IM's simple as that.. ENUF SAID

[This message has been edited by badFix (edited 06-03-2002).]

actaully that was the intent of the fist amendment. just because you can do something doesnt mean that you should. and no you shouldnt offend people just for the hell of it. galileo inadvertently offended people in the pursuit of truth, your remarks are just to be an asshole.

the basic idea of the constitution is that you can do whatever you lke so long as it doesnt harm another person. now this has long been perversed by politicians and we no longer have that luxury but it was the intent. i support responsible free speech on the internet and i think if you consider yourself an educated person you should too

i dont agree with that particular campaign with the christian values incorperated but i do strongly support the responsible use of free speech

Deviant, please try and think of ONE instance in which restraint in free speech could HARM someone, and then I'll take your aguement seriously. Like it or not, you will be and are held responsible for your speech. A good example is this post, in my mind, and in the minds of most others who will read this post, you have lost your crediblility and your ability to be persuasive for a pretty good period of time.

In plain English: Fine, be an idiot, but the result is that no one takes you seriously.

I'm with Syphon, I support responsible free speech, but I won't do it in affiliation or apparent connection with a group that has defined ethical agenda.

so spock do you or don't you think that he should have the right to be an idiot and the right to lose the respect of others as a result of his own actions?

he has a choice whether he wants to stir up trouble for no reason or whether he wants to be respected by an internet community.

and he can say whatever the freak he wants its the internet if you can't handle words typed from someone who you will probably never see the face of in real life then dont read them don't be a retard and whine about it

"mommy they hurt my feelings"

Self-restrain in free speech is OK, but when other people want to do it for you, that's not free speech.

Dr. Spock, you called me an idiot. I think you better restrain yourself before I stop taking you seriously.
I understand that having restraint in free speech won't do any harm, but I don't want my freedom "to communicate in a vulgar, profane, violent, and insulting manner" taken away from me. I like having the choice.
The people who wrote that don't understand that unusual people like me don't always want to have tons of friends and want people to like them. All they care about is being part of the religion they were born into and doing "right." Damn Christian sexless freaks. I don't believe in right or wrong. As in the words of William Shakespeare: "Nothing is good nor bad but thinking makes it so."
Syphon detonator, I didn't like that way you said: "I support responsible free speech on the internet and I think if you consider yourself an educated person you should too." In other words, in your mind, anyone who doesn't agree with you is uneducated. Well I don't agree with you and I'm able to press the "Caps Lock" key.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Dr Spock:
you have lost your crediblility and your ability to be persuasive for a pretty good period of time.

---

I never had credibility or an ability to be persuasive in the first place.

That's easy, Dr. Spock. When you restrain your speech and hold back your critiscisms of our leaders, you are harming your society, making it weaker and less tolerant of others.

You dont expand the freedom of speech by restraining it. You expand it by exercising it.

These Christian right-wing nazi bastards are trying to convince you to voluntarily give up your right to speak freely, in the name of "restraint".

Many times lately we have heard Ashcroft or some other Fascist go on television and tell us not to question in this time of war. If we are really at war, go to Congress and ask for a declaration of war. Otherwise, they can just shut the fuck up.

I am sad that so many people died in the WTC bombings. But if you think that anyone anywhere can prevent terrorism, think again. No matter how much money you spend or agents you have, it will never go away. And it's the low-tech that will get you everytime. Ask the Palestinians(sp). With the weapons you can make in the basement and a few very committed volunteers, you can cause extreme terror with little hope of effective reprisal.

The government will spend Billions of dollars on the new Transportation Security Administration. If you were a terrorist, would you pick an airline to go after? No, you would pick something easier, like a movie theater or a library or something like that. Is there going to be a Movie Theater Security Agency? It's all nonsense.

The whole point is to make people afraid. To make them fear the outside world so that the government can scare us into getting more and more power. That's how governments work, and always have.

So dont let them tell you that "restraint" is the choice of the intelligent, sensible person.

J.C.

I've just e-mailed the Green Ribbon Campaign and told them to read this thread. I want to hear what they have to say.

Very true, J.C.

JC,

quote:

---

Originally posted by J.C. Stanton:

I am sad that so many people died in the WTC bombings. But if you think that anyone anywhere can prevent terrorism, think again. No matter how much money you spend or agents you have, it will never go away. And it's the low-tech that will get you everytime. Ask the Palestinians(sp). With the weapons you can make in the basement and a few very committed volunteers, you can cause extreme terror with little hope of effective reprisal.

---

You cannot make something "go away". What you can do is give enough "negative reinforcement" so you can try to modify behavior. The groups we are dealing with understand force. They also understand that they were able to get away with the embassy bombings and the USS Cole with barely a scolding. Why shouldn't they keep on doing what they were doing?

Force is required. I agree that those refugee camps reek with potential martyrs, however, let us not forget that we have a recent example where the one female figured out that suicide wasn't necessarily what Allah wanted.

The proposition that we can totally stop/prevent anything is absurd. However, we must try.

Nox

quote:

---

Originally posted by Deviant:
Syphon detonator, I didn't like that way you said: "I support responsible free speech on the internet and I think if you consider yourself an educated person you should too." In other words, in your mind, anyone who doesn't agree with you is uneducated. Well I don't agree with you and I'm able to press the "Caps Lock" key.

I never had credibility or an ability to be persuasive in the first place.

---

i think you are confused. the shift key is used to type capitol letter in sentances whereas the caps lock key is used to type entire phrases in caps. next time you decide to make a petty insult at least get your facts straight.

at no point did i say that leaders should not be criticised but you don not have to do it in a way that is so vulgar that it offends the majority of your audiance. as i said above your free to say and do what you wish so long as it doesnt hurt anyone else. thats what real free speech is, and real free speech involves restraint. freedom and license are two entirely different things. this is a concept you have not yet grasped.

furthermore at what point did i say i support that group? or that leaders should not be criticised? all im saying is that if your speech hurts others then its no longer free speech, did they choose to be hurt? i think not. by you abusing your right to speech you take away others right to life liberty and happieness.

take for example the supreem court case in which a group of young boys screamed fire in a crowed movie theater. in the confusion a person got trampled. the boys claimed it was ok to do since they have a right to free speech. the supreem court ruled that their right only extended to the point that it didnt hurt others. so there you have straight from the supreem court.

its constitutional zealots like you that give real strict constitutionalists a bad name. before you try to critisize a concept please try thinging first

quote:

---

you can try to modify behavior

---

LOL.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Nox:
However, we must try.

---

Nox

quote:

---

Originally posted by syphon detonator:

i think you are confused. the shift key is used to type capitol letter in sentances whereas the caps lock key is used to type entire phrases in caps. next time you decide to make a petty insult at least get your facts straight.

at no point did i say that leaders should not be criticised but you don not have to do it in a way that is so vulgar that it offends the majority of your audiance. as i said above your free to say and do what you wish so long as it doesnt hurt anyone else. thats what real free speech is, and real free speech involves restraint. freedom and license are two entirely different things. this is a concept you have not yet grasped.

---

I must be really confused because I thought that the caps lock key could do both.
My racist jokes didn't hurt anyone, there's a difference between physically hurting someone and mentally hurting them. The government would be mentally hurt by people criticising their actions. Little children would be mentally hurt when they're told they can�t have ice-cream. If you urged people to kill somebody and they did, you wouldn't have the right because they were physically hurt. In the example you said, if the boys shouted "the cinema is for faggots" it would be okay because they didn't physically hurt anyone and if a member of staff asked them to leave, it would still be okay because the boys would be only mentally hurt.

quote:

---

furthermore at what point did i say i support that group? or that leaders should not be criticised? all im saying is that if your speech hurts others then its no longer free speech, did they choose to be hurt? i think not. by you abusing your right to speech you take away others right to life liberty and happieness.

---

Nobody accused you of supporting the Green Ribbon Campaign. Nobody said that you think our leaders shouldn't be criticised either but it was implied because you would be mentally hurting them and taking away their right to happiness.

Thanks for the advice; next time I will try "thinging" first.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Deviant:
For those of you who have an attention span of over 10 seconds, read this: http://www.zondervan.com/desk/green.asp

[QUOTE]If you agree that the true right of free speech is accurately carried out when self-restraint is responsibly exercised, please display the Green Ribbon for Responsibility in Free Speech on your web site.

---

Does anyone else see what's wrong with this? I have free speech but I'm not allowed to use it. If I wanted to tell them that they're wrong, it's okay but if I want to tell them that they're fucking morons, it's not okay because I'm not using my free speech responsibly. Fucking hell, "restraint".
It's like they claim to support free speech but they'd tell Galileo to shut up because he's offending people.

I feel like stressing my right to free speech, this site has inspired me.

There's a black person in my family tree.
He's still hanging there.

I have sex with retarded people because they don't worry about diseases.

White people are nature's clowns.

I hate eating vegetables...
The wheelchair hurts my teeth.[/QUOTE]

Let me ask you something. Should Television be able to use any language or show any kind of graphics they want. Nudity, Hard Porn, Snuff films? You know children will get accesss to this. I support free speech but at the same time someone shouldnt have to feel abused by this. What is free speech anyways. Is it a bit generalized when our forefathers wrote the constitution. did they have in mind people yelling profanity and perhaps taking a big shit in public as their form of expression. Its an issue that has to be hammered out.

remember nude man in berkeley? The college student who wanted to excersize free speech by walking around buck ass naked? everyone at first was all for it. The police stop bothering him, the school allowed him to go to class nakie and then one day a fellow Student (Female) complained that her chair smelled like ass. The Man didnt have enough respect for his fellow students to lay down a towell and so this was a health now a health issue.

Expressing your thoughts is a form of freedom of speech. but what if your "Freedom of Speech" starts to effect other peoples mental health? You now violate their health as this naked student had perhaps endangered the health of fellow students. perhaps someone could have breathed in his ass bacteria and got hepititis or phnemonia. Laugh if you want. The mind is a physical part of the body. And by expressing these vulgar thoughts can endanger the younger encouragable children to do things they normally wouldnt.

I didnt feel like opening dictionary.com so dont give me shit about spelling errors.

exactly. you can offend people but the second you hurt them your taking away thier right to life liberty and happieness. criticising a ploitician may offend him but it doesnt hurt him. there is a huge difference. and even if that criticism hurts him by taking him out of office then it is acceptable because his actions were hurting the people he was supposed to represent, therefor it was necesary.