well exuuuuuuuse me but dont ever ask me why i am a fucking terroist agian read the fuck on.

President Bush recently announced that the United States Government will not
honour its commitments under the 1997 Kyoto Protocol to reduce greenhouse
gases. The United States produce 25% of the world's carbon dioxide, a gas
that is believed to be the main contributor to global warming.
Rising global temperatures are known to raise sea levels, and change precipitation and other climate conditions. Changing climates alter forests, crop yields, and water supplies. It could also threaten human health, and harm birds, fish, and many types of ecosystems. An increase in weather-related disasters will occur, deserts may expand into existing range lands, densely populated coastal areas will flood and large numbers of people will have to move.

Show you disagree with the Bush Administration's decision to withdraw from
the 1997 Kyoto Protocol on Global Warming. Urge President Bush to review his
policy in this matter and devise a comprehensive plan to reduce US emissions
of so-called greenhouse gases.
Sign your name, town and country of residence at the bottom of this e-mail, copy the entire text of this e-mail (do NOT use the forward button), into a new message and send it to as many people as possible. If you see 100 people have signed this message before you, send this e-mail to the White House at president@whitehouse.gov to show Mr. Bush the world is watching. Then start a fresh copy of this message with your name as the first signer. Thank you.

1-Tom Gehrels, Toronto, Canada
2-Ren� Pottkamp, Amsterdam, the Netherlands

3-Beppechien Bruins Slot, Haarlem, the Netherlands
4-Marloes Kraan, Amsterdam, the Netherlands

5-Kim Knibbe, Amsterdam, the Netherlands
6-Jose Lima, Portugal

7- Rui Pereira, Lisboa, Portugal
8-Jo�o Alves, Lisboa, Portugal

9-Tiago J�natas,Lisboa,Portugal
10-Nuno Encarna��o, Lisboa, Portugal

11-Filipe Fernandes, Lisboa, Portugal
12-David Manuel Dias Neto, Lisboas, Portugal

13-Domingos Alfredo Alves Neto . Lisboa. Portugal
14-Ana Escoval - Lisboa - Portugal

15- �lvaro de Carvalho - Lisboa - Portugal
16- Anabela Paix�o - Lisboa , Portugal

17- �scar Ortet - Lisboa, Portugal
18-Leonard Duhl - United States of America

19-Rebecca Rosen - USA
20-Erin Conlisk - USA

21-Jonathan Hedstrom - USA
22- Lisa Oglesby, USA

23- Neill Kyle,Inverness - United Kingdom
24-Gordon Morrison-Inverness - United Kingdom

25-Aaron Turner, USA

26- Stephen O'Malley, New York, USA

27- Hegedus Mark, Vienna, Austria

28- Eric Charles Harrison, United States of America
------------------------
totally ready for the kaos

Did you know that sense the industrial revolution man kind has not produced the amount of CO2 or other noxious gases that one single large volcanic eruption has?

I think Bush is right, for the fact that none of this has been proven. Also it is a fact that the earth goes through cycles of rising and falling average temperatures. There is proof in ice and soil cores.

Saying that man has caused global warming is just dumb.

From what I understand about the Kyoto Protocol is that it also gave power to the UN to inspect any car it wanted to, and park them as it see's fit. Anything treaty that gives away any amount of a nations sovereignty is a bad treaty to get into.

I'm sure industry would also use better pollution control systems as an excuse to raise prices. Frankly I think I pay too much for stuff as it is.

When it's found to be fact that our impact has caused Global Warming, perhaps I'll change my pov. But as of now there is nothing abnormal about it.

To quote George Bush at the FTAA meetings:"I will answer that question neither in english, french or mexican."

okay real, fact one, based on a perponderance(more so than not) of the evidence....

1)you are right!! the earth has gone through 'NATURAL GLOBAL WARMING CHANGERS"
and will continure to as the planet cycles through its sessional spiral.

2) fact two- the earth through all those changes/phases, was in a particular time spane, meaning it was gradual, so it happened in so many thousands of years-UNDERSTAND, so naturally the temperature rises and drops(check out david suzuki)over a long period of time, meaning that the recorded changes happen along time apart from each other, at an average rate.from records averaged out!!

3) here we are sports fans FACT FUCKING THREEEEEE

THE DISTANCE BETWEEN THE LAST TEMPERATURE AVERAGES AND RISES, of the last major climate change, is less than half, meaning in the short amount of time the 70's industrial age growing, from the 70's till now, the temperature has risen drastically, above and out side of normal temperature cycles that the earth does 'NATURALLY FUCKING HAPPENING'

so real, dude, man, come the fuck on, the temperature has risen to quick in the short amount of time the earth naturally in the past has experienced its changes, what fucking more evidnce do you need man.

look at the abnorm,al weather that will get worse, i cant wait untill your all snow the fuck out man, then dehidrated that much that la nina and elnino has got you by your balls and say hey man, how are you doing, please to meet, you i will now fucking destroy you as i need to blalance out all the rising and low temperatures because me the earth hasent had time to adjust to the temperature change naturally, over a period of years,

so real, what the weather like at your house man.

for fuck sake man, open your eyes.

-----------------------
totally fucking nihilistic

You data is wrong nihilistic.

Ice cores have shown average temperatures rising as much a 5�F over a period of 10yrs.
I don't know where you heard the thousands of years thing, it's just not general and is not "the" pattern as to which the earth's climate follows. The earths magnetic poles can relatively quickly flip allowing more radiation to enter the atmospher temporarily. This has happened in the past and we are in the cycle of which things are building up to flip now, perhaps w/in the next 200yrs.

We as humans have released 1/2 the amount of green house gases that Helens (the volcano) did. Add that up to all the other eruptions that take place, and what we've released is probably barely significant.

Where is your proof that proves beyond a doubt we have made some great impact?

Hell the Arctic ice melting thing was a freakin mistake. No one accounted for the natural flow of ice. Furthermore the global warming-polar ice thing does not fit any computer model that includes all natural climatic, geologic, oceanic, atmospheric, industrial, and solar activity. Only if one compares average temperatures 20yrs ago till now to industry does it show that we cause global warming. But that's incomplete and very biased data, in turn it proves nothing.

On the other side, add all other things in and compare that to Earth's past, not much has changed. The whole thing started as an idea and now the media and government has blown it out of proportion without sound evidence being there.

And frankly anyone who thinks they ought to tell me what I can or cannot drive can kiss my ass.

Today it's about 65� and sunny. Like it should be, like it was yesterday, the day before that, and it is forecasted to be like this tomorrow too, but Sunday we should expect rain. Spring, ain't it great?

Ya know fucked up weather conditions also follow beginning and endings to natural cycles?

Man did not cause El Nino nor el nina, those have been occurring in cycles as well for a long time.

You can't prove anything.

Ozone Layer...

yankee? why, i haven't yanked it since earlier this afternoon!

Look, the world will end soon anyway, so I think we all have much much BIGGER things to worry about than 'pollution' and 'ozone layer depletion'. Like maybe you should worry about 'alien dissection procedures' and 'horrible mutant centipedes devouring your leg'

I was wondering who was gonna bring that up Templeton. Yes the only thing that can be said with much faith is caused by man is the depletion of Ozone. Ozone concentrations do fluctuate with solar and geologic activity. Volcano's release gases that do damage to the ozone layer, low spots in solar activity slows the production of Ozone. Increased lightning though produces it. However we aren't seeing an icrease in lightning. What do see is a minute rate change is world wide ozone layer. It's not being produced as fast as it as used up, lightning has been the same. Ozone concentrations are down as a whole, but we it could be on the rise again. Because the depletion rates are coming closer to equal the production rate.

For those of you that don't know the biggest producer of ozone is lightning. If you ever playe around tesla coils, plamsa balls, etc you can smell it.
3 O2 + High Voltage ---> 2 O3

2 O3 + UV radiation---> 3 O2

If it weren't for lightning we'd all be dead nor have ever existed.

The concentrations do fluctuate however, not as much till recent years. But will it stabilize out? We don't know.

It is a good idea to take precaution, I don't disagree. But I don't like anything involving the UN, as if it has any power to enforce anyways. It would also be interesting to see if the rates change in 5yrs w/out doing anything, I think that would be a great deciding factor in the debate. If it's stable, we should still be careful, but not extreme, if not, then stop using fossil fuels.

One thing that really gets me, I'm going to add, is the push for electric cars. In reality they don't do much good, we still burn fossil fuels to charge them up. Until we stop using fossil fuels, what't the use? Sure you get cars that pollute less, but you end up with power plants that pollute more. Furthermore you gasoline burning car is less polluting (with modern emmissions controls) than a power plant producing the same amount of power.

it isnt my data, it hundreds of scientists and daivd suzuki's data, and there is more evidence than not, for the ozone and temperature averages, so shit man, the evidence says differently in my mode of understanding,

---------------------------
totally nihilistic

I'm not saying you are intrepeting their evidence wrong nor that I'm saying their data is incorrect. What I'm saying is that it's biased and does not consider other events.

If we have a chart that compares rates of gross production and average temperatures, it would show that with increased production we do get increased temps. However production is not the only factor dealing with increased temps and is not totally responsible for it. If we put everything on a chart and then remove production the difference is not really that much. With or without industry, the temps are rising, and so are the level of green house gases.

Furthermore chaos theory comes into play, but again, it's theory. As we take material from earth and put them into space we cause little changes. The earth not having as much mass, loses gravity. With water leaving the water cycle is messed up. Perhaps 100gal of water was all that was needed for the ocean to have the required heat capacity to stop el nino. But we put that 100gal of water into space. I'm not saying that's what happened, it's just a theory that takes a place beyond the back seat, more like being drug from a 20ft rope tied to the bumper. The point is though, they are all theories, so we don't know what really is happening.

Here is an idea maybe because of a really big ass hole in the ozone layer lots and lots of fuckin uv shit has trapped its self in the atmostshpere. Call me crazy but that seems pretty fuckin sound.

if we all take all this observation of yours into account for a moment,

by all the theories we may interpret so alot of other events in view also effect the cycle,

but what we do know is that the gases and the pollution either earth or man really do ,do the things to the biosphere right!! that is what you are saying??

so why the ##%# produce some thing,by choice when there are alternatives (btw no profit) when it is accountable , let the earth determind the amount of gas etc that it needs and produces NATU FUCKING ALLY

the earth produces the gases naturally,

we do it becasue we stupid,

fucking dumb,

like money to much,

and did i mention dont have a brain.

ow yes also and dont have a brain.

real, enjoy the weather man, beacuse i feel a storm brewing hahahar.

-------------------------
totally nihilisitc

Very well then, what do you suggest we do nihilistic. No matter what we are always going to release gases. Should we stop breathing and eating too? Should we stop manufacture of everything that requires electricity or adds any amount of abnormality to the biosphere?

Ya know at one time this hole atmosphere was mainly carbon dioxide, nitrogen, and methane. It never left, it just changed form. In fact much of it has ended up in peat and fossil fuels. Everything is in a cycle, humans speed it up.

I don't know why you keep bringing up the weather, it's quite nice here, it has been sense you first mentioned it. What should it be like?

read "The Quickening" by Art Bell then you will just how much faster humans are speeding up the process.

i dont need any book or more evidence to know that the planet is slowerly phasing the humans off!!

like the fleas that they are,

and real the weather should be,

unsuspecting

as it is now.

totally nihilistic

Global warming is a GOOD thing, statisically, we were about due for an ice age(not real good), so quit whinin'. If ya think carbon dioxide is real bad stuff, then just quit breathin', or plant some weed.

lol, yeah i would plant some weed, but then cunts like you and bong man would just smoke it.

*cough*

>m1066ad, how long have you lived in the northwest arkansas area? If it has been more than 5 years then you are one blind individual. Your comment on global warming being good... hmm... You are a fucking idiot for saying that. Let me paint you a picture that you can understand. World heats up... ice melts .. ocean rises (expected to rise greater than 30 feet BTW) ..land is swallowed up by water.. bye bye new orleans.. bye bye coastal cities..hello water.. you reproduce.. your whole family reproduces(god help us).. 6 billion reproduce..have fun finding a parking spot ASSHOLE! Seems if you were around this area for long you would have noticed the hordes of people in the past 10 years that have migrated here in your local area. Perhaps you are one of those idiots. Global warming is NOT good and dont you forget it badbrains.
Oh and BTW everyone.. there is an alternative to fossil fuels.. Its called HYDROGEN! That shit burns so clean mother earth would be orgasmic! But guess what is holding that back... the billions of dollars spent on the oil industry. Imagine filling your gas tank with your water hose! Hell no! They stand to lose Billions from that. Fuel cells my friends. Cease all road work for 1 year and convert all the vehicles with the money spent otherwise to hydrogen burning cars. As a people arent we supposed to be able to change like that? In one action, the world strives to make this a better place. Fuck no! Money ........ got some?

You know what happens if global warming melts the ice caps, rubble? The oceans rise, the water level goes up, there's less land available and human ADAPT. They develop better submersible technology, they learn to live on or under the water, they learn how to cultivate edible sea-weed. Global warming is good because it changes things and makes us strive for survival. Look at the renaissance, it began because of the trade routes towards the orient was cut by the arabs. We then had one of the most glorious centuries of our existance.

Oh, and by the way, you won't be able to fill up your tank with a garden hose because water isn't hydrogen, its burnt up hydrogen. You need electricity, energy, to transform water into hydrogen and oxygen. And even if you developped a hydrogen engine, do you know how easy it is to explode hydrogen? To have a gas tank full of it on you would be suicide.

I don't want to live on Waterworld..

too late, unless you and every one else plays their part NOW.

and there are alternatives,

and obvious ones at that to the fossils besides hydrogen,

sure

what red is saying,

the planet will adapt,

but still be out of its NATURAL EQUILIBRIUM, and core balance, and that will have negative effects on you, no matter, what scales or gilles or underwater craft your ass will have .

--------------------------
totally nihilistc

Natural equilibrum? Natural equilibrum was destroyed when human beings were created. We are the masters of earth and no other creature scares us anymore. Nature has created food chains and ecosystems so that not one creature can compleatly dominate over the others to keep the natural equilibrum. When man eveolved from the ape, we compleatly brought that natural equilibrum out of whack. So because we have existed for a good 10000 years and we haven't felt any effects yet, maybe nature's equilibrum isn't that important.

redness, mate nature has given you the gift to choose.

i dont wanna argue about man being above nature becasue you compared to nature are an ant,

again you are free to choose, but not free not to chooose.

how much intergral and dignity to you have in your existance, and have you ever felt the warmth and strength from nature, any feelings unique to you that you have ever embraced,by your self around nature? concrete has enslaved your life.

AND NOW YOUR INSTINCT.


muuuuhhaaaaaaar-sorry.

------------------------
totally nihilistic

Ok redretard..your response is one of very limited crainial capacity. First of all, your stereotypical comment of the hydrogen being highly flamable.. well no shit pal! So is gasoline. I think you might be still dwelling on the accident of the Hindenburg in 1937 eh'? A little out of date don't you think?! We have the technology now to do this. Here's a site for you to feed on <a href="http://www.advancedceramics.org/nha/advocate/ad23can.htm">Site</a>. Now then as far as adapting to the abundance of water..sure we will adapt. At what cost would it be sufficient for you be able to breath your carbon monoxide? Or develop your skin cancer? Or swim in toxic water? You must like it for you dare not try to change it in the representations of yourself. Scared to take a stand? Or just too ignorate to do so in any intelligable manner.
The obvious solution is only one. Raise the price of gasoline so high that we will be driven to change to a more economical mode of transportation. Perhaps that is the objective behind the recent increasses of gasoline. But no.. one would raise it very high in a short amount of time to cause this type of reaction. No, I think their objectives exist elsewhere. Could it be... THE MONEY?!
Go buy yourself a boat and adapt red. Better start now because evolution can take quite a long time...

BON VOYAGE!!

Dern link! Try this again without the HTML. http://www.advancedceramics.org/nha/advocate/ad23can.htm

Hmm... what makes you think that the human race will even survive long enough to see this sort of thing happening.
There are so many fucked up things that can happen to this world its better just to live life how ever you can.. just like the world will sink, so will every one of us.

interesting rubble, i kinda like this maniacs attitude, of the fed up sense, and ready to change, thanx for the link man.

the rest SOCIETY BEING OF ANTI-INDIVIDUALISTIC IN THE NORMATIVE SUFFERS IN THE GRIPS OF THEIR OWN INADEQUACY IN THE JUDGEMENTAL VISION OF WHAT THEY HAVE BEEN TAUGHT AND CONDITIONED IN FROM BIRTH,AND RESULTS IN SUBJUGATION LIES AND UNSUSTAINABLE LIVING FOR EARTH

THE WILDERNESS IS REALLY THE ONLY PURE AND UNCORRUPTED ESSENCE LEFT-TOALLY NIHILISTIC

IF THIS CONTINUES FOR MUCH LONGER OUR EARTH WILL BE DESTROYED BY WEAKNESS WE TAKE PRIDE AGAINST, OUR POPULATIONS ENSLAVED FROM YEARS OF BREEDING FOR DOCILITITY THE TIME IN CONFORMATY SPENT SUPPORTING A SOCIETY THAT EXISTS AS OUR COLLECTIVE PARASITE,AND DAMAGES THE INDIVIDUAL WILL THAT BURNS SO FERVENTLY IN OUR EXISTANCE BY CONFORMIST DEMANGES AND NEGATIVE SOCIAL CONSEQUENCES CONTROLLING ECONOMIC FUTURES THAT HAVE THE EARTH AND HEALTH OF US AT THE LAST PRORITY.

SO LAMBS, THINK ABOUT IT-and WAKE THE FUCK up

-NIHIL

Hey, friends, try searching on the web for some actual information regarding your opinions. The beauty of life today is that we don't have to get off of our lazy butts and go to a libary to learn something.

For, example, here is the EPA's comments on global warming at: http://www.epa.gov/globalwarming/climate/index.html

Our Changing Atmosphere
Energy from the sun drives the earth�s weather and climate, and heats the earth�s surface; in turn, the earth radiates energy back into space. Atmospheric greenhouse gases (water vapor, carbon dioxide, and other gases) trap some of the outgoing energy, retaining heat somewhat like the glass panels of a greenhouse.
Without this natural �greenhouse effect,� temperatures would be much lower than they are now, and life as known today would not be possible. Instead, thanks to greenhouse gases, the earth�s average temperature is a more hospitable 60�F. However, problems may arise when the atmospheric concentration of greenhouse gases increases.
Since the beginning of the industrial revolution, atmospheric concentrations of carbon dioxide have increased nearly 30%, methane concentrations have more than doubled, and nitrous oxide concentrations have risen by about 15%. These increases have enhanced the heat-trapping capability of the earth�s atmosphere. Sulfate aerosols, a common air pollutant, cool the atmosphere by reflecting light back into space; however, sulfates are short-lived in the atmosphere and vary regionally.
Why are greenhouse gas concentrations increasing? Scientists generally believe that the combustion of fossil fuels and other human activities are the primary reason for the increased concentration of carbon dioxide. Plant respiration and the decomposition of organic matter release more than 10 times the CO2 released by human activities; but these releases have generally been in balance during the centuries leading up to the industrial revolution with carbon dioxide absorbed by terrestrial vegetation and the oceans.
What has changed in the last few hundred years is the additional release of carbon dioxide by human activities. Fossil fuels burned to run cars and trucks, heat homes and businesses, and power factories are responsible for about 98% of U.S. carbon dioxide emissions, 24% of methane emissions, and 18% of nitrous oxide emissions. Increased agriculture, deforestation, landfills, industrial production, and mining also contribute a significant share of emissions. In 1997, the United States emitted about one-fifth of total global greenhouse gases.
Estimating future emissions is difficult, because it depends on demographic, economic, technological, policy, and institutional developments. Several emissions scenarios have been developed based on differing projections of these underlying factors. For example, by 2100, in the absence of emissions control policies, carbon dioxide concentrations are projected to be 30-150% higher than today�s levels.

Changing Climate
Global mean surface temperatures have increased 0.5-1.0�F since the late 19th century. The 20th century's 10 warmest years all occurred in the last 15 years of the century. Of these, 1998 was the warmest year on record. The snow cover in the Northern Hemisphere and floating ice in the Arctic Ocean have decreased. Globally, sea level has risen 4-8 inches over the past century. Worldwide precipitation over land has increased by about one percent. The frequency of extreme rainfall events has increased throughout much of the United States.


****************
In short, I agree with a lot of what nihilistic is saying....

Peace,




------------------

ok..my 2 cents now.

Nob Hill in San Francisco becomes bay front property, All of Jack London Square and most of downtown oakland and the entire island of Alameda will be an underwater ghosttown (Unless they build a riser which i doubt they would.

much of LA would be under water too. there would be rivers flowing into the inland like orange county and the sacramento delta region would widen and flood all of the crop lands in Orange County and Northern California. California grows like 1/10th of the worlds crops. We are the Agricultural Capital of the world. Not to mention Florida who grows most of the worlds citris fruits will be many islands. seperated by miles of ocean waters. Yah, Global Warming is much better then an ice age for guys like me who love warm weather but think off all the coolest places on earth getting wiped out in just a matter of 5 or 6 decades. I think an Ice Age would be better cause it would be survival of the fittest and all the stupid people would die out in the cold. OK i dont really mean harm on them but it has its plus side.

hailz to anomie, the rebellious heart that like most of us, knows this from the EVIDENCE,

alot of hard core greenies have known this similar data/idea to a degree since the late 70's when the industrial revolution peaked.

we have know this way for years, yet choose to ignore it, why, becasue we are waiting for a company or group/movement, to have the ballz to take on the matrix.

that is us, not myself and my horde, but you reading this now,

the SEARCH FOR FREE ENERGY DISPENCING

i will raise a much needed thread with hopfully the same amount of interest in the EARTH FRIENDLY company we are working on=company names, materials to sell etc.

TO CRIPPLE THE MULTI NATIONalS,

, --------------------------------
totally nihilistic

start stock piling nihil.

huh?

i already live off the land, whatcha mean by that?

quote:

---

Originally posted by Redrover:
To quote George Bush at the FTAA meetings:"I will answer that question neither in english, french or mexican."

---

Evidently, you are a practioner of republicanism. Every reputable scientist on earth has stated that industrialism, as far back as the mid nineteenth century has produced huge quantities of greenhouse gases. The destruction of rainforests, common forrests destroy the earth's ability to clean it's atmosphere. Oxygen has only been prevalent for a short period in our planet's history. Only with the presence of plants, specifically TREES, the major "cleaners" of the atmosphere, has breathable air been available. The production of greenhouse gases, CO2 the most prevalent, has increased by exponential numbers since man first began to use fossil fuels.
It might be better for you to go to school before shooting your mouth off without basis. the george is famous for this as is the dick.

But then any science fiction reader will realize that in 50 years, trees will be obselete. We will be able to replenish our earths oxygen throught chemical reactions or develop genetically modified plants that will better resist pollution.

And P.S., I am not a republican. Personally, they sicken me. They have no compassion for their fellow man and they worship money too much.

Where redrover.. on Mars?
what kind of thinking is that?

lets keep the thinking realistic lambs, the next bambi that opens it incoherent mouth like this on MY THREAD, will end up like sch bch as an example.

new stats and evience has surfaced and has appeared on this doco i saw on 60 minutes lately.(global warming)

did any one happen to catch that, it was the australian 60 minutes.

--------------------------
totally nihilistic

Hey Real, Why don't you go turn on your car and go around to the tail pipe, and lay down on the ground in front of it. Be sure to tell me what happens.
Or even better yet, seal yourself inside the back of a duece and a 1/2 with a hose running from your car exhaust to the back of the the truck. You can have a potted geranium to keep you company. I'll start the clock.
My point is that vehicles produce polution. Alot of it. I don't care how you want to sugar-coat it or how many paid for scientists you have on your side saying it doesn't matter. It happens.
And the more it happens, the more the earths naturale balance is effected. Sooner or later the way things are will be shifted to the way things should be, much in the same way our bodies fight a disease. Because lets face it, the human race has become a type of disease. We no longer live in harmony with our enviroment as we used to long ago. A way that was learned from the animals we now domesticate, exploit, or just flat out drive into extinction.
This shift,I predict, will take one of two forms. Either The Mother will slap the insolate hand of her misbehaving children. Or her children will grow up and learn to take credit for their mistakes and take a part in correcting them. I too see a storm coming.....