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| Science of the Damned Paranoia, ghostly delusions and the science of the damned. |
# 1
2009-01-05, 19:35
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Moderator
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Wasilla, Alaska
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the secret of the alchemists
I really liked the way Kurt Vonnegut, Jr., put it, not that it is news to all of us. I brought the book in to the library but lost the place--as well as I can recall, the quote goes like this:
"The alchemists knew they could not change base metals to gold, but pretended to try, in order to get wealthy patrons. What they really wanted to do was change themselves."
Something important to bear in mind when one is tempted to eschew spiritual growth in favor of flashy shit.
__________________
"Love is infallible; it has no errors, for all errors are the want of love." -- William Law
"The astrolabe of the mysteries of God is Love." -- Rumi
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# 2
2009-01-05, 20:16
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Re: the secret of the alchemists
Yeah, but I still wish sometimes alchemy could lead to gold, then I wouldn't%20have%20to%20go%20to%20school%20and%20work%20anymore%20and%20focus%20on%20the%20more%20important%20stuff.%20^.^
But anyways, who is Kurt Vonnegut, Jr? And what book is this?
And in another thread, you said another book to Rizzo: Malleus Maleficarum?
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# 3
2009-01-05, 21:12
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Moderator
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Wasilla, Alaska
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Re: the secret of the alchemists
^I suggest you learn about this wonderful thing known as google. (The computer thing, not the number.)
Right now, I have four minutes left on the comp I'm using.
__________________
"Love is infallible; it has no errors, for all errors are the want of love." -- William Law
"The astrolabe of the mysteries of God is Love." -- Rumi
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# 4
2009-01-05, 21:45
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Re: the secret of the alchemists
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArmsMerchant
^I suggest you learn about this wonderful thing known as google. (The computer thing, not the number.)
Right now, I have four minutes left on the comp I'm using.
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Rather than being sarcastic, sometimes people would rather get the information to their questions first hand from another person rather than just "googling" something. And some are too lazy to google and would rather just read responses too. 
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# 5
2009-01-05, 22:02
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Re: the secret of the alchemists
I believe he was the author who wrote Slaughterhouse 5.
Most of the old alchemical texts were written in a code to confuse the uninitiated. For example something that looked like a a process for physical transmutation was actually a code for a sex magic practice.
I believe a physical transmutation can be possible, but a real method for it won't appear until scientists can turn energy into matter.
Anyways, great quote.
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# 6
2009-01-05, 23:07
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Moderator
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Wasilla, Alaska
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Re: the secret of the alchemists
Quote:
Originally Posted by countdown2chaos
Rather than being sarcastic, sometimes people would rather get the information to their questions first hand from another person rather than just "googling" something. And some are too lazy to google and would rather just read responses too. |
As I implied, I don't have time to spoon-feed people. Or the inclination to pander to the lazy.
I just drove another 20+ miles in zero weather to get another hour of computer time--two minutes of which I just wasted.
__________________
"Love is infallible; it has no errors, for all errors are the want of love." -- William Law
"The astrolabe of the mysteries of God is Love." -- Rumi
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# 7
2009-01-06, 05:23
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Regular
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American Southwest
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Re: the secret of the alchemists
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArmsMerchant
^I suggest you learn about this wonderful thing known as google. (The computer thing, not the number.)
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The number is spelled GOOGOL, anyway.
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# 8
2009-01-06, 11:15
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Re: the secret of the alchemists
It's not really a secret anymore...The true alchemy is Internal, although if you believe some there was also an External alchemy through which some very advanced initiates could in fact turn different metals into gold.
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# 9
2009-01-06, 11:20
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Re: the secret of the alchemists
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rory
The number is spelled GOOGOL, anyway.
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Sounds like a good name for a demon.
I hereby declare GOOGOL, Flayer of the Flame and Bringer of Mind Born of Cunt to be ruler of the Sixth Hell.
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# 10
2009-01-06, 12:34
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Regular
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Perth, Western Australia
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Re: the secret of the alchemists
Quote:
Originally Posted by countdown2chaos
Yeah, but I still wish sometimes alchemy could lead to gold, then I wouldn't%20have%20to%20go%20to%20school%20and%20work%20anymore%20and%20focus%20on%20the%20more%20important%20stuff.%20^.^
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I bet that would help our economy
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# 11
2009-01-06, 20:01
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Re: the secret of the alchemists
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoPcOrN PeOpLe
I bet that would help our economy |
Or just cause inflation...
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# 12
2009-01-08, 02:15
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Re: the secret of the alchemists
Quote:
Originally Posted by countdown2chaos
then I wouldn't%20have%20to%20go%20to%20school%20and%20work%20anymore%20and%20focus%20on%20the%20more%20important%20stuff.%20^.^
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Spiritual growth doesn't end once you get up from the meditation
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# 13
2009-01-08, 03:26
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Re: the secret of the alchemists
Quote:
Originally Posted by kurdt318
Spiritual growth doesn't end once you get up from the meditation |
Who says meditation ever stops?
Although brain waves may raise and fall during certain activities, the thought process never stops.
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# 14
2009-01-08, 03:47
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Re: the secret of the alchemists
Quote:
Originally Posted by countdown2chaos
Who says meditation ever stops?
Although brain waves may raise and fall during certain activities, the thought process never stops. |
Oh God I hate it when you get a shitty thought in your mind... and the mind doesn't shut off.
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#15
2009-01-08, 04:20 |
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Re: the secret of the alchemists
Oh God I hate it when you get a shitty thought in your mind... and the mind doesn't shut off.
Eh?
I never said the mind shuts off.
Kurdt said "Spiritual growth doesn't end once you get up from the meditation" because I said I wish I could make gold from lead to do other more important stuff (saving me time from work/school,etc). And in return I said essentially said why should meditation ever stop? Or the thought process you go through during meditation. For example, my thoughts are always focused on spiritual advancement, everything I do, advancement and enlightenment are on my mind, I never just stop and think "normally," I look at everything in a spiritual context. I think you took that out of context just a bit. ;)
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#16
2009-01-09, 07:59 |
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Re: the secret of the alchemists
In meditation you shouldn't even *have* a thought process.
Thoughts may arise, but they shouldn't be continuous.
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#17
2009-01-13, 15:27 |
dhalgren's haze 
Regular
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Re: the secret of the alchemists
Khem was an ancient name for the land of Egypt; and both the words alchemy and chemistry are a perpetual reminder of the priority of Egypt's scientific knowledge. According to the fragmentary writings of those early peoples, alchemy was to them no speculative art. They implicitly believed in the multiplication of metals; and in the face of their reiterations both the scholar and the materialist should be more kindly in their consideration of alchemical theorems.
"Nothing from nothing comes," is an extremely ancient adage. Alchemy is not the process of making something from nothing; it is the process of increasing and improving that which already exists.
Here are some of the things alchemists tried to achieve:
1. The preparation of a compound named elixir, magisterium medicine, or philosopher's stone, which possessed the property of transmuting the baser metals into gold and silver, and of performing many other marvelous operations.
"2. The creation of homunculi, or living beings, of which many wonderful but incredible tales are told. (full metal alchemist, anyone?)
"3. The preparation of the alcahest or universal solvent, which dissolved every substance which was immersed in it.
"4. Palingenesis, or the restoration of a plant from its ashes. Had they succeeded in this, they would have hoped to be able to raise the dead.
"5. The preparation of spiritus mundi, a mystic substance possessing many powers, the principal of which was its capacity of dissolving gold.
"6. The extraction of the quintessence or active principle of all substances.
"7. The preparation of aurum potabile, liquid gold, a sovereign remedy, because gold being itself perfect could produce perfection in the human frame."
Alchemical texts and hermetic symbols along with info on Hermes, Paracelsus and the Philosopher's Stone here:
http://www.sacred-texts.com/eso/sta/sta37.htm
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#18
2009-01-14, 05:23 |
Xerxes89
Regular
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Re: the secret of the alchemists
I've stumbled upon a blog post about alchemy. This is a huge amount of material... The author says Alchemy was passed on by higher beings in Ancient Egyptian mythos and its ideas spread around spiritual groups in the ancient world. He links secret societies and the knowledge of alchemy influenced the paths of the Abrahamic religions, which I am not so sure about. And alchemy is conposed of three processes - internal, external, and time (?). People were only interested in the external results of alchemy and tried to transmute metals, not realizing the whole.
Unfortunately I am unable to comment on the legitimacy of this author's work because the material is too immense to process in one night.
(http://vincentbridges.com/2006/03/29/the-gnostic-science-of-alchemy/)
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#19
2009-01-14, 08:56 |
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Re: the secret of the alchemists
Khem was an ancient name for the land of Egypt; and both the words alchemy and chemistry are a perpetual reminder of the priority of Egypt's scientific knowledge. According to the fragmentary writings of those early peoples, alchemy was to them no speculative art. They implicitly believed in the multiplication of metals; and in the face of their reiterations both the scholar and the materialist should be more kindly in their consideration of alchemical theorems.
...
other stuff
Thank you! Finally information in this thread that looks reliable.
Alchemists did have their spiritual side, as they mixed religion and their esoteric study of chemistry, but I doubt it was their major focus. The idea that they didn't really believe in the physical processes is nonsense. Modern so-called alchemists, yes. The real alchemists, no.
Yeah, but I still wish sometimes alchemy could lead to gold, then I wouldn't have to go to school and work anymore and focus on the more important stuff. ^.^
One thing I remember said by an alchemist was that the point of finding the philosopher's stone wasn't so much so that they could get rich from gold, but so that gold would no longer be valued so much.
Probably that wasn't the real reason, but he brought up an important point -- being able to transmute other metals into gold would cause the price of gold to plummet (also possibly destroying their economy!). Unless you kept it a secret, it wouldn't be as valuable as it appears on the surface.
There were other things that they sought from the philosopher's stone, as mentioned in a previous post.
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