The title says it all--I am looking for opinions from those with any experience with the piece.

The 1911 or the Tokarev clone? I've heard good things about both, but I'd thouroughly test them before trusting my life to them.

I'm going from memory here--I keep seeing the thing at gun shows so I can't test-fire it--and it looks like a 1911, only, I dunno, clunkier.

I'll probably see it again at the gun show next month, and was toying with the thought of getting it.

Norinco's newer stuff, particularly the 1911's, are supposed to be pretty decent at least as the basis for building up custom guns.

I can't comment on the Tokarevs other than they are similar to the 1911's in design and I personally don't enjoy the particular weapon all that much.

I remember that documentry where the guy gos to pakistan to show the arms market. They take him to a place where they make guns and the paki guys were making 9mm pistols. And they were bootleg norincos and they said "made of china by norinco"

I'm wondering if thats the same documentary I watched a couple years back where its in a village and you had kids making bullets, literally by melting then shaping and packing the cases.

I'm wondering if thats the same documentary I watched a couple years back where its in a village and you had kids making bullets, literally by melting then shaping and packing the cases.

it may be that one. I remember they goto the ammo makers and there were a few kids there and there was a bunch of steel cases in piles on the ground and the people were working on the ground and i think they were using the little handheld bulllet seater. ?it shows how they test the guns and the people just shoot them up into the air in the middle of the city and the host guy points out some shredded bullet jackets on the ground.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TT_pistol

Does it look something like that?

In any case, Norinco quality control is good enough that it shouldn't explode on you and it may even be a decent pistol. I'd only rely on the former though.

it may be that one. I remember they goto the ammo makers and there were a few kids there and there was a bunch of steel cases in piles on the ground and the people were working on the ground and i think they were using the little handheld bulllet seater. ?it shows how they test the guns and the people just shoot them up into the air in the middle of the city and the host guy points out some shredded bullet jackets on the ground.



Yup that would be the exact same show I watched then. Gave me a whole new perspective on the arab culture mainly pakistan.

Nearly all the black market 'Glocks' yet get over here are Norinco.

They go bang.

If they were really that bad, you wouldn't be able to buy them, as there would be no market for shit that won't work.

Tolerances are less tight, so reliability is up.

This?
http://www.vbs.tv/video.php?id=494769783

This?
http://www.vbs.tv/video.php?id=494769783

Yep thats it.
correction: it said "made as china by norinco"

when they go into the gunshop it shows a "muzzlelite" which is actually a mini14 with cheapo muzzlelite stock.

They are ugly and sometimes need some gunsmithing to work out the kinks but the steel frames are the strongest availible.

^Thanks ,all, for the advice.

If my son still wants a 9mm (I gave him my .44 mag Ruger Super Blackhawk a few years ago, after he shot a moose with it), I might get the Norinco for him. The thing is too big for me, and I just a got a .38 special I like, but Doug has much bigger hands than I do.

If they were really that bad, you wouldn't be able to buy them, as there would be no market for shit that won't work.

People go gaga over AR-15s and their no-gas-piston-having-asses...

/trawlin' trawlin' trawlin'

People go gaga over AR-15s and their no-gas-piston-having-asses...

/trawlin' trawlin' trawlin'

Watch that video I linked in the SVD thread if you wanna see why the match shooters like direct impingement... :D

Watch that video I linked in the SVD thread if you wanna see why the match shooters like direct impingement... :D

I believe that has more to do with the fact that Stoner designed it so that the recoil force went straight down the receiver and stock and wasn't offset, and that the receiver isn't stamped steel. I'd be curious to see what a milled receiver AK would look like under high-speed camera testing.

Basically, I am more convinced that the actual design of the rifle and how and what the receiver is made of is more important than how the action is cycled. Design trumps manufacturing efficiency. The recycling has nothing to do with it, as I can point to gunblast's range report on the AR-15 and AR-180b, where the latter was found to be more accurate.