I really really would like to get a pistol but thanks to my piece of shit job im barley paying the bills so saving $500-600 is going to take a LONG time. I can probably save up $350 within the next few months plus there's a gun show coming next month id like to check out. So is there any recommendations for a pistol within this range that is preferably 9mm or .40? I want a pistol that I can be confident that its going to function, easy safety features and id prefer a +12rd magazine, plus feels good. Obviously my main concern over EVERYTHING is reliability, if I can't get a super reliable pistol for $350 id much rather wait as long as it takes and get the pistol I really want.

Ok so as far as guns ive checked out and really like the XD series, Beretta 92s, and 1911. Those are the three pistols that ive really liked, but most are over $500. So that should give you an idea of what kind of gun styles have a good feel. I really need help because i've always been more of a rifle man but id like to get into pistols since they are more practical for self defense then Ak47 or .308 SMLE

What kind of action are you most interested? DA, or do you like the DA/SA? I ask because a lot of the time people who shoot DA/SA at the range forget to test out the longer DA pull because racking the slide puts it in single action and there's no reason to use the decocker.

Actually could you explain the differnce between double action and single action? Like I said I've always been more of a rifle man. My experience with pistols is very limited.

Single Action is where the hammer is in the cocked position and the trigger pull only fires the weapon. Double action actually cocks and fires the weapon with the same trigger pull. DAO is double action only, which is what most striker fired pistols use a variation of. The reason I ask is that a lot of people really get annoyed by the DA/SA transition because the trigger pulls are not uniform.

Check out the colt 1903 or the ruger p-series. They are both extremely severely affordable and have a unique feel to them.

Well which would you fine guys recommend as far as DA/SA or Both? I have no preference, my main concern is reliability. Ill definitely check those out thank you.

The only thing I can suggest is the P-series Ruger. They make them in DAO as well. They're just overall pretty damn good and affordable as well.

The Ruger P-series is pretty neat, and I had a source for some P-89's at a great price, but they feel different from Beretta's, 1911's, or XD's. I recommend you try one to see if you like it. They can be very affordable, reliable, and a friend of mine is a great shot with his.

You might want to hold a Smith and Wesson M&P. I really like the compacts, and they are a little less expensive than XD's. You might be able to pick one up for 400 or a little less. I know Buds Guns sells them for 439, plus there is a rebate going on where you can get two mags or $30 back, plus you might be able to get a .mil discount. Damn- just checked, they have them for $507. They have some pop up for $400, but those are frequently LE deals. If you just shop around a little, you might get it for a great price with a little patience. Or you might hold one and hate it. I checked online and didn't find much else with a slimmer, straight grip profile and higher capacity for your desired price.

Ill check out the ruger p series. I think when I first started looking for a pistol months back I was looking at those. Thanks a lot for the help.

I'll never buy a Ruger. "I dont understand why any honest man needs more than 10 rounds" my ass. And, anything short of a 10/22 or Sp101 has never had a reputation for being super reliable or a joy to shoot.

You have some good options in your price range. Used Glock, Used Springfield XD, Used Sig Pro, S&W M&P etc.. All with the exception of the Sig give you the same trigger pull every time. Maybe you could even find a new gun at a good price, more and more people are selling guns cause of the crappy times we're in. If you are stapped for cash shooting 9mm would be far better than .40

And no decent 1911 is going to be $500, unless you find someone that is selling a nice one and needs the money quick.

You might wanna go to the range and rent a few guns to see what trigger and frame fits you.

Rifles are an extremely practical means of self defense. Concealed carry =obviously not.

And if MLK says its feels good and its affordable, it must be the bomb! Even if he himself has never shot a firearm.

Definitely go to the range. Normally, I love Sig handguns, but I have never fired a Sig Pro. Also, if you dislike Ruger (I've only recently picked up one of their firearms and had been considering other brands instead due to the magazine issue), then I also have to bring to your attention that Smith and Wesson had tried to capitulate to the Clinton era demands, but that both companies have been bought and sold and have new CEOs and boards of directors, so they are essentially completely new companies.

Get this. (http://www.jgsales.com/product_info.php/p/arcus-98dac-9mm-compact-size-new/products_id/2377) It's worth every penny.

He finally says something constructive, and you criticize him. You are not helping.

he's just butthurt, leave him be.

No mention of the Hi-Point yet?
http://www.ableammo.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=83296

It fits my hands very well and is SAO. It is fairly heavy and the magazines are unfortunately single-stack only, but I have never met a failure to feed, fire, or eject when using FMJ rounds.

Maybeyou could try looking for used versions of the ones you like? i would yell XD!!!! but I am biased now. I hate to say it but the S&W sigma is in your price range *cringes* you could get that and get some work done on the trigger. Someone suggested that ruger semis are in your price range. What about revolvers? Is you mind set on a semi auto?

^Hi point c9 has recieved good reviews for the price range*cringes even more* and they have a great replacment plan/waranty if it ever breaks. if this is a defensive handgun I wouldn't bet my life on a C9, if it is a plinker it would be a good choice. They re ugly but functional. Also I do not like the whole you can't field strip it and thoroughly clean it thing.

I'll never buy a Ruger. "I dont understand why any honest man needs more than 10 rounds" my ass. And, anything short of a 10/22 or Sp101 has never had a reputation for being super reliable or a joy to shoot.

.


You know after all the complaints they have received I think they are starting to change their attitude because they are offering mini14 models on their site that have 20 rd mags INCLUDED!!! The also have a heavy barrel mini now. I wish they would of had that 2 years ago when I bought mine.

Also I do not like the whole you can't field strip it and thoroughly clean it thing.

http://www.wikihow.com/Take-a-Hipoint-Pistol-Apart

They aren't designed to be field stripped anyway. At 500 rounds you are supposed to clean the barrel and at 1500 you need to spray gun lube into the action. Currently I've got 300 rounds through mine without cleaning and I am not going to clean it until it jams.

Lock the slide back, punch out the pin at the back of the frame, and push the slide forward and over the barrel.

I thought you confirmed that you couldn't field strip it? Maybe i was mistaken then. Or is it just a hassel to strip? Like alot of little springs and parts? Sounds pretty simple. On my xd you just pull slide back, flip switch, release slide forward, pull trigger asyou pull slide forward, pull out recoil spring, pull out barrel and repeat for reassembly.

http://www.wikihow.com/Take-a-Hipoint-Pistol-Apart

They aren't designed to be field stripped anyway. At 500 rounds you are supposed to clean the barrel and at 1500 you need to spray gun lube into the action. Currently I've got 300 rounds through mine without cleaning and I am not going to clean it until it jams.

see that is pretty darn amazing. I mean its low maintenence also. That is a plinkers DREAM!

I thought you confirmed that you couldn't field strip it? Maybe i was mistaken then. Or is it just a hassel to strip? Like alot of little springs and parts? Sounds pretty simple. One my xd you just pull slide back, flip switch, release slide forward, pull trigger asyou pull slide forward, pull out recoil spring, pull out barrel and repeat for reassembly.

The pin itself is somewhat difficult to take out without a punch, but parts flying everywhere isn't a problem. The only thing I know of that will come out is the slide pin, firing pin and it's spring, and some buffer. Then again, it's quite intuitive as to how they go back into the slide, and it's unlikely they will come out anyway because the tunnel and slide retaining pin are a tight fit when out of alignment that you would see when you are taking the slide off.

As you can see, it's all really obvious as to how it goes together:
http://www.wikihow.com/images/thumb/6/67/C9frameandslide_40.JPG/420px-C9frameandslide_40.JPG

The grips keep the trigger linkage, sear, safety, and magazine release stuff together.

Oh and the frame seems like kind of cheapy plastic and the sights are weird. But for the money it is not bad. if it was all i had, I suppose i would use it for defense, but ig I have a choice I would get something a little nicer.

Oh and the frame seems like kind of cheapy plastic and the sights are weird. But for the money it is not bad.

It is plastic, but it's the same plastic as a Glock, so whatever. :p

It comes with standard peep sights with orange paint and with ghost ring sights. The front post sight it nonadjustable and has bright yellow paint.

It is plastic, but it's the same plastic as a Glock, so whatever. :p

It comes with standard peep sights with orange paint and with ghost ring sights. The front post sight it nonadjustable and has bright yellow paint.

Are you sure about the plastic being the same as the glock? It seems different. Arn't the grips plastic? maybe I am thinking of those being a cheap feeling plastic.

Are you sure about the plastic being the same as the glock? It seems different. Arn't the grips plastic? maybe I am thinking of those being a cheap feeling plastic.

Yes, the grips are indeed plastic. The frame isn't all plastic, as high-stress places have a steel skeleton to add support. It's a straight blowback design so it's got to stand up to alot of recoil force. Of course, I would have much rather had the reliability of the plastic frame but with the strength of being completely formed out of metal, hell even Zamak.

Yes, the grips are indeed plastic. The frame isn't all plastic, as high-stress places have a steel skeleton to add support. It's a straight blowback design so it's got to stand up to alot of recoil force. Of course, I would have much rather had the reliability of the plastic frame but with the strength of being completely formed out of metal, hell even Zamak.

Yeah I was thinking of the grips. i havn't held in a year. Me and my friend were in his neighborhood and he spotted out a redneck garage sale that said "guns,knives, ammo,tools,and hunting/fishing equip and they had a high point carbine there for 75$. i would have bought it if i had the money but I had just spent my 200$ the day before on ammo.

that sounds like a decent deal though. i recall the hp carbine going for$ 200.

http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t153/demik_2007/IMG00031.jpg

http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t153/demik_2007/IMG00031.jpg



This would have been more impressive:

http://www.impactguns.com/store/media/smith_163501.jpg

This would have been more impressive:

http://www.impactguns.com/store/media/smith_163501.jpg

Thats not what is imprtant KEEP THAT FINGER OFF THE TRIGGER:


http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w148/rp1111_2007/IMG_0010.jpg

Thats not what is imprtant KEEP THAT FINGER OFF THE TRIGGER:


http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w148/rp1111_2007/IMG_0010.jpg



Yeah its one thing I hate about non-military or non-weapon trained folks, they have no idea what muzzle awareness or trigger safety means. That's how that stupid NY NFL player shot himself. With the XD's is very easy to blow a hole through your wall given the lack of thumb safety.

Yeah its one thing I hate about non-military or non-weapon trained folks, they have no idea what muzzle awareness or trigger safety means. That's how that stupid NY NFL player shot himself. With the XD's is very easy to blow a hole through your wall given the lack of thumb safety.

The M&P doesn't have one either. Doesn't really make sense.

Yeah its one thing I hate about non-military or non-weapon trained folks, they have no idea what muzzle awareness or trigger safety means. That's how that stupid NY NFL player shot himself. With the XD's is very easy to blow a hole through your wall given the lack of thumb safety.

You mean the guy in the club that had it tucked in his sweat pants? Fucking monkey... :D

Plaxico Burress.

His name is almost as silly as the act of him shooting himself.

Yeah its one thing I hate about non-military or non-weapon trained folks, they have no idea what muzzle awareness or trigger safety means. That's how that stupid NY NFL player shot himself. With the XD's is very easy to blow a hole through your wall given the lack of thumb safety.

its not hard if you just keep ones damn finger off the trigger. The XD has a chamber indicator at the top of the slide which protrudes so if you are in the dark you can feel that there is a round in the chamber. There is also a indicator on the rear of the slide that will tell you the weapon is charged/cocked that also protrudes so you can feel it in the dark if you cannot see it. Once you KNOW the weapon is clear it is not really an issue to dry fire the weapon if you think it is necessary but I always double check the chamber and i do not rely on the chamber indicator.

The M&P doesn't have one either. Doesn't really make sense.

In general, military people are just as bad if not worse than the rest in reguards to firearms safety.

Glocks have 3 safety mecs, the M&P has at least 2. If you shoot yourself, it isnt because you didnt have a manual safety and/or a device that automatically tells you the gun is loaded. Its because you fucked up.

The wheelgun generation was fine, with the exceptions of the put your finger inside the trigger to draw type LE holsters that used to be popular.

You dont need a mechanical safety, you need common sense. I like the 1911 style manual safety because it gives my thumb a place to ride on and it can come off naturally during the draw. If it was anywhere else, I wouldnt want it on a gun.

Battle rifles need a safety because they are flying around the sling on your body and all sorts of stuff can get stuck in the trigger. Your pistol would be in a holster that fully protects the trigger guard, or your brain would keep your finger and other things away from the trigger while you are moving.

RL, point taken on the S&W and Ruger ownership. If it soothes you, I have never bought an S&W either ;)

Plaxico .

Sound like it could be a name of a company that makes bullet resistant plexiglasses.

He finally says something constructive, and you criticize him. You are not helping.

I know right? Its all good. These days, I save my epic essays for Glocktalk and ar15. On here everything is taken with a grain of salt.

And by grain I mean handful.

The M&P doesn't have one either. Doesn't really make sense.

Some do.


RL, point taken on the S&W and Ruger ownership. If it soothes you, I have never bought an S&W either ;)

I don't fault you there either. I used to never consider the two, and now I own examples of both. It's only because they have no real solid ties to the people or leadership that made what I consider atrociously disgusting decisions, and they're American made and manufactured.

Thanks for all the help. Hopefully I can find a good used pistol at the gun show and get what I really want but if not then ill at least have other options available. As far as the hi point this is a self defense weapon and personally I wouldn't trust a $100 gun to work every time.

Also yea I'm strictly looking for a semi-auto, I personally don't like the looks/feel of revolvers.

Suit yourself. I'll just keep my little black hoogan killer. :)

Hello!?! I just met all your requirements with the Arcus 98 DA (double action browning hi-power). It will shoot anything, +p included. It's $300 new, and expandable and upgradeable since it uses hi-power parts.

Hello!?! I just met all your requirements with the Arcus 98 DA (double action browning hi-power). It will shoot anything, +p included. It's $300 new, and expandable and upgradeable since it uses hi-power parts.

Ok so what is it a contest or something? Im not buying any of these guns until i've held one in my hand and all. Ill probably be going to the gun store either tomorrow or sometime next week to start getting a better idea. Im just looking for suggestions to make it a little quicker and easier since between all the stores I normally go to I know that there's at least 60 different pistols that fall into the category im looking at so id rather narrow it down instead of checking each and every one. I really appreciate all the help though guys

Ok so what is it a contest or something? Im not buying any of these guns until i've held one in my hand and all. Ill probably be going to the gun store either tomorrow or sometime next week to start getting a better idea. Im just looking for suggestions to make it a little quicker and easier since between all the stores I normally go to I know that there's at least 60 different pistols that fall into the category im looking at so id rather narrow it down instead of checking each and every one. I really appreciate all the help though guys

I didn't get to hold my XD because it was a gift and I didn't pick it out. Luckily it fits in my hand like a glove would fit on it.

that sounds like a decent gun for the money though man. I would definetly look into it because it does cover what you want in a hand gun pretty well. It looks alot better than a freaking sigma( cringes).

I didn't get to hold my XD because it was a gift and I didn't pick it out. Luckily it fits in my hand like a glove would fit on it.

that sounds like a decent gun for the money though man. I would definetly look into it because it does cover what you want in a hand gun pretty well. It looks alot better than a freaking sigma( cringes).

In mother Russia, the gun fit's it's hand to you. :p

CDNN might still have some used Beretta 96s (.40s) for $299 and used Beretta 92s for $319.

Also...

Summitgunbroker.com has police trade in Smith 5906s for $270 as well as other police trade in guns.

It would be likely that the barrels would be quite warn on a old police gun. I bet they are not in the best shape though. If it had a new barrel then it would be a good deal.

I'm not sure.

I've always been under the impression that the finishes would be worn but the internals would be practically new due to the firearms being shot close to only 100 rounds a year for qualification.

well i was assuming they put quite a bit of range time on them? i may be mistaken though.

If you can find one, a Makarov would fit your description well. They will not jam unless you feed it ammo too weak to cycle the slide. It's small and very accurate to boot.

The magazine capacity doesn't fit his preference. The caliber might make him a little leery, too. The closest thing to a Makarov that would fit his needs would be a CZ-82/83 or similar model.

Ok well thank you all for your help, I finally decided and put $200 down on a gun, ill get it the day I turn 21 the 14th next month. Its a taurus PT 24, its .40, 15rd magazine, awesome feel to it, and the guy that had it before put new sights on it and has 2 magazines. As long as its reliable as the guy said they are then its fucking perfect. Its only $350 after taxes. Anyone got any bad things to say about this gun? I hope not because I already put the money down, it was one of those as soon as the gun touched my hand I knew it was meant to be mine things.

This is what the sights look kinda like.
http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/product/standard-item.jsp?_DARGS=/cabelas/en/common/catalog/item-link.jsp_A&_DAV=perf&id=0037520227889a&navCount=0&podId=0037520&parentId=cat20795&masterpathid=&navAction=push&catalogCode=IJ&rid=0180101070502&parentType=index&indexId=cat601233

This is a preview of the gun to come.

http://www.davesguns.com/serverpics/FirearmsPage/Taurus-24-7-40.jpg

So I ended up getting my Taurus 24/7 pro and I am damn glad I did. It is fucking amazing, not to bad of a recoil, the feel is awesome, and I love the safety switch its easy as fuck for me because its kind of like the M16 safety or it feels like it to me. Also the sights work great so heres a little gun porn you guys probably not impressed but im damn happy for my first little baby.

Also for those of you that don't have a pistol or never carried one on your belt like the cop said in super bad "Its fucking amazing!! its like having two cocks......... if one could kill someone" Haha god bless the second ammendment and open carry states.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v230/Pyrogangsta/0114091153.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v230/Pyrogangsta/0114091413.jpg


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v230/Pyrogangsta/0114091416.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v230/Pyrogangsta/0114091416a.jpg

Yeah i like the safety on the taurus guns. I like how you don;t have to flip the safety up to turn it off like other thumb safety guns. instead you flip it down.

Nice.

Taurus makes pretty good guns, except for their 1911.

The 24/7 should serve you well.

well i was assuming they put quite a bit of range time on them? i may be mistaken though.

Generally police trade ins are carried a lot, shot a little. You'll see lots of holster wear, and sometimes thats about it. I have seen internals covered in corrosion/ fouling though. Most cops are lazy as hell about cleaning their guns, and they dont shoot unless they have to. Same goes with the military.

Of course some guys are smarter than that though.

Ive bought Sig and Glock trade ins at gun shows and was quite happy, but I wouldnt order one offline without a good return policy that allows you to thouroughly inspect it inside and out.

Taurus makes pretty good guns, except for their 1911.

The 24/7 should serve you well.



Generally police trade ins are carried a lot, shot a little. You'll see lots of holster wear, and sometimes thats about it. I have seen internals covered in corrosion/ fouling though. Most cops are lazy as hell about cleaning their guns, and they dont shoot unless they have to. Same goes with the military.

Of course some guys are smarter than that though..

I think thats just gun people in general. Some are smart enough to take care of their guns and some are not. I've seen some real fucking dirt bags as far as weapons maintenance in the military. Fuck when they issued me my saw the guy that had it before me must have never ever fucking cleaned it because where you could get carbon build up there was I fucking shit you not 1/8in of carbon at minimum sucked ass i had to clean it all to.

Can anyone recommend which ammo would probably be best for self defense load? The main thing is reliability I don't care about knocking dude down in one shot I just want to know that its going to fire every time, but of course more damage the better.

I was thinking about getting some ammo from here haha ;-) http://www.extremeshockusa.com/

Good point Apprentice, not to mention that machine guns suck to clean. And the people who carry them are Joe that will try to slide by with doing nothing but what they are told, if that.

Here is where everyone on the forum will jump in and say this does well in ballistics gell or Massod Dickyoub says use this.

Use what you can afford. Ive never personally used extreme shock ammo, nor have I heard of it being used in a self defense situation. Im not saying it dosent work, but I dont have the money to buy 100 rounds for a function test then enough to fill up 3 mags for carry.

For years Ive carried Speer Gold Dots, due to them having an excellent track record of putting down bad guys and still working fairly well through automobile glass, drywall, and thick clothing.

I recently switched over to Hornady TAP, its very accurate, very low muzzle flash, and very low recoil, even in +P rounds. I want to find out what kind of propellant they are using so I can start loading them.

Its important to make sure you test fire at least a few mags of carry ammo through your gun to be sure that it works well. Im sure you could do a search on your gun to see if anyone has done accuracy testing, reliability testing etc. with the load you are interested in.

In the end you are better off buying a couple boxes of decent JHPs and a ton of cheap FMJs for practice, then spending a crapload on some kind of wonder rounds with fancy advertising that havent been used in real life.

Yea no matter how many bad ass reviews or people say a spefic ammo is good theres no way im actual carrying it until i've put a few mags through my gun. I was just curious about recommendations that way I don't spend $300 on testing ammo to see which one is best. Right now i've just got basic FMJ blazer ammo because I don't have any money to purchase ammo for testing. I'll definatly try out some of the ones you suggested though and as far as wonder rounds yea fuck all that shit, I saw the box of truth on the EXTREME SHOCK!!!!!!!!!11!!!! and its about the same damage as normal rounds just way more expensive and mall ninja style that link was meant as a joke.

I think thats just gun people in general. Some are smart enough to take care of their guns and some are not. I've seen some real fucking dirt bags as far as weapons maintenance in the military. Fuck when they issued me my saw the guy that had it before me must have never ever fucking cleaned it because where you could get carbon build up there was I fucking shit you not 1/8in of carbon at minimum sucked ass i had to clean it all to.

Can anyone recommend which ammo would probably be best for self defense load? The main thing is reliability I don't care about knocking dude down in one shot I just want to know that its going to fire every time, but of course more damage the better.

I was thinking about getting some ammo from here haha ;-) http://www.extremeshockusa.com/

Mate if some cunt did that with our equivalent of the SAW (Australian Army, google what we rock and roll with if you're that interested) then they would be charged and loose three days pay, get a heap of shit from the section, and never fucking do it again.

If your weapon is not servicable, then you are ineffective. Every digger knows that, and we stick to it. (This goes for infantry, I can't speak for poags as I don't associate with them)

Taurus makes pretty good guns, except for their 1911.

Do tell. From all I've read their PT1911 is a great gun, and it was going to be my next purchase after my C-15.

Then again, lots of people like to talk shit about Hi-Point and I ended up loving their guns after I bought one. Just saing! ;)

Here is where everyone on the forum will jump in and say this does well in ballistics gell or Massod Dickyoub says use this.

Use what you can afford. Ive never personally used extreme shock ammo, nor have I heard of it being used in a self defense situation. Im not saying it dosent work, but I dont have the money to buy 100 rounds for a function test then enough to fill up 3 mags for carry.

For years Ive carried Speer Gold Dots, due to them having an excellent track record of putting down bad guys and still working fairly well through automobile glass, drywall, and thick clothing.

I recently switched over to Hornady TAP, its very accurate, very low muzzle flash, and very low recoil, even in +P rounds. I want to find out what kind of propellant they are using so I can start loading them.

Its important to make sure you test fire at least a few mags of carry ammo through your gun to be sure that it works well. Im sure you could do a search on your gun to see if anyone has done accuracy testing, reliability testing etc. with the load you are interested in.

In the end you are better off buying a couple boxes of decent JHPs and a ton of cheap FMJs for practice, then spending a crapload on some kind of wonder rounds with fancy advertising that havent been used in real life.

This is exactly what I do with personal weapons. I used to use Speer Gold Dots (and still do, but and trying to switch to Federal HST's), but I really only fired a few mags of HP every couple months and bought large quantities of FMJ for practice.

What about a MkII/III? Personally, I felt the same way about Ruger, but I ended up with one after the company switched board of trustees and Bill Ruger died.

Also, I like my Taurus PT1911. I bought it because I found a real nice deal on it (under $500), and didn't mind if it needed work (which it didn't). As a base gun in particular for a new build, I think it's a great option.

Do tell. From all I've read their PT1911 is a great gun, and it was going to be my next purchase after my C-15.

Then again, lots of people like to talk shit about Hi-Point and I ended up loving their guns after I bought one. Just saing! ;)

Tons of untuned MIM parts. Yes, MIM isnt really a bad technology, but it becomes bad with poor quality control and lack of hand fitting parts. Even if a gun has "good" MIM parts, I dont want them in an area that could cause failure if they break (slide stop, grip safety, barrel link etc.)

To build a semi - production 1911 takes hand fitting, period. Check out the 1911 forums, not just Taurus forums, or reviews from gun magazines. You cant just slap parts together and get a good 1911. Ever see those Taurus ads where they add us their "custom" features? Its called something like a Sarco parts kit. Shoddy quality to begin with, and simply slapped together to make a gun that will fire a few test rounds in the factory before being sent out.

If you want a 600 dollar 1911, get yourself an STI Spartan. Then try to find a better gun for less than $1200. Yea, its a reworked Armscorp slide and frame, but STI puts a lot of time into them, and there are only 3 MIM parts in the gun.

It took me about $600 to completely de- MIM my Desert Warrior.

Performance aside, you can pick up a PT 1911 at a gun show and see tool marks, lots of slide frame play, and plenty of hidden marks inside the gun.

I suppose the PT 1911 is a decent entry level gun, but there are better options out there for the price. No use in spending your cash on something that will more than likely give you a headache later on.