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| Backyard Ballistics This forum is dedicated to the safe teaching and responsible handling of high and low explosives. You will not find any information on how to make "bombs" or any such device(s) . Backyard ballistics will teach you the science and the art of pyrotechnics and how to manufacture and use explosives/pyrotechnics safely and responsibly. Backyard ballistics is also a haven for rocketry and pneumatic cannons. All information contained within this forum is for educational purposes ONLY. Totse does not accept responsiblity for any incident involving the use of the information contained within this forum. |
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#1
 2008-12-18, 04:47 |
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 erythritol (tetra?)nitrate
so i have a few ounces of erythritol laying around, and would like to nitrate it. I have a nitrate salt and can distill nitric acid, but have no sulfuric acid. Do you guys buy from chem suppliers or hardware stores? I've looked hard at hardware stored...
Also, would this mix well with petroleum jelies and such, making a decent plastic explosite?
Lastly, could someone explain why hydrochloric acid (gas even) cannot catalyze nitrations of hydrocarbons?
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#2
2008-12-18, 16:43 |
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Moderator
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I live in Heresy
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Re: erythritol (tetra?)nitrate
Nitration occurs because H2SO4's strong dehydrating capacity, generation NO2+ ions (nitronium IIRC).
There are plenty of other ways though, Urbanski wrote a full chapter on various alternative and even highly exotic nitration methods.
Also, isn't it penta erytriol nitrate? ... not saying you won't get an odd mix of nitrates, but you can get up to five.
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#3
2008-12-18, 22:54 |
iceshrike 
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Re: erythritol (tetra?)nitrate
ETN- erythritol tetranitrate is what HeaT is talking about.
PETN-pentaerythritol tetranitrate is what your thinking of moko, and it is more well known due to commercial and military usage.
Four OH moieties on the sugar and thus only 4 places that can be
Sulfuric acid protonates the nitric acid and the nucleophilic oxygen on the alcohol then attacks it making the nitro ester.
Could you tell me why HCL would play a catalyst role in the first place? Or is that just some spurious thing you thought might work?
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#4
2008-12-18, 23:56 |
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Re: erythritol (tetra?)nitrate
Quote:
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Originally Posted by iceshrike
ETN- erythritol tetranitrate is what HeaT is talking about.
PETN-pentaerythritol tetranitrate is what your thinking of moko, and it is more well known due to commercial and military usage.
Four OH moieties on the sugar and thus only 4 places that can be
Sulfuric acid protonates the nitric acid and the nucleophilic oxygen on the alcohol then attacks it making the nitro ester.
Could you tell me why HCL would play a catalyst role in the first place? Or is that just some spurious thing you thought might work?
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No reason, I had just thought another strong acid may be able to protonate the nitric acid. Any specific it wont? simply sulfuric's dehydration capabilities, as mentioned earlier? I'm decent with chemistry... but moreso in other areas... |
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#5
2008-12-19, 11:51 |
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Moderator
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I live in Heresy
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Re: erythritol (tetra?)nitrate
ETN- erythritol tetranitrate is what HeaT is talking about.
PETN-pentaerythritol tetranitrate is what your thinking of moko, and it is more well known due to commercial and military usage.
Ah yes, thanks for reminding me.
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#6
2008-12-25, 18:01 |
iceshrike
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Re: erythritol (tetra?)nitrate
You can't nitrate Alkanes in the first place hoping for any sort of yield as the Alkane mix will be heavily oxidised, maybe even all the way to carbon dioxide.
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#7
2008-12-25, 21:40 |
asilentbob
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Re: erythritol (tetra?)nitrate
You can... BUT don't generally attempt such using H2SO4/HNO3...
In industry some of the lighter alkanes were made in vapor phase nitration voodoo. With cheap feedstock like methane, ethane, propane, and butane losses can be acceptable. Don't know how they are made now...
Theres also other workable methods like reacting an alkyl halide with silver nitrite...
And more that I can't remember.
BUT what confuses me... is how are you able to distill nitric acid from a nitrate salt without sulfuric acid, HeaT?
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