http://www.kmart.com/shc/s/p_10151_10104_1880000000001331P

Wouldn't that work nicely on dried shrooms (in conjunction with cold temperatures and protection from light)?

I actually thought of buying one of these myself, just was never sure if they worked or not. Ziploc came out with one with a hand pump thats dirt fucking cheap, again not sure how well it works. I guess the only way to know is to try it out yourself....

http://www.shroomery.org/6247/The-Puerto-Method-Of-Preservation

Learn Know Do

http://www.shroomery.org/6247/The-Puerto-Method-Of-Preservation

Learn Know Do
That's actually BS. It would displace the oxygen in the bag, but would do nothing to prevent oxygen from diffusing in and out of it, through the plastic. Oxygen can diffuse through plastic, but not through glass or metal. Thus, containers made out of glass or metal are best. I use pickle jars. Of course, if you wanted to slow oxidation, you could blow this canned air stuff into your jars before sealing them.

Another thing you could do is pack your mushrooms in a pickle jar, then open up one of those disposable chemical hand warmers and toss that in. It'll react with any oxygen inside and produce a nice anoxic environment for storing your shrooms.

That's actually BS. It would displace the oxygen in the bag, but would do nothing to prevent oxygen from diffusing in and out of it, through the plastic. Oxygen can diffuse through plastic, but not through glass or metal. Thus, containers made out of glass or metal are best. I use pickle jars. Of course, if you wanted to slow oxidation, you could blow this canned air stuff into your jars before sealing them.

Another thing you could do is pack your mushrooms in a pickle jar, then open up one of those disposable chemical hand warmers and toss that in. It'll react with any oxygen inside and produce a nice anoxic environment for storing your shrooms.


the idea was that the air would be displaced with freon, therefore not allowing oxygen in (assuming the bag was completely filled) as the max. volume of the bag would be reached, not allowing for more oxygen.

also they had the whole 'triple-seal' thing going.

Yeah, I've read about the freon method. I think air would still get in, even if the bag was filled with freon. A helium balloon leaks helium over the period of a few days, but I'm not sure if that's a valid example. I figured there would be less oxygen transfer with the vacuum bags since there's not really any room for oxygen to transfer into. Also, they're proven to work somewhat, as I've known people who've kept steaks or whatnot in them for long periods of time without any freezer burn.

Yeah, I've read about the freon method. I think air would still get in, even if the bag was filled with freon. A helium balloon leaks helium over the period of a few days, but I'm not sure if that's a valid example.
Not really, helium forms a very small diatomic molecule while freon is quite a large one, it can 'slip through' the plastic because of it's small size while freon with it's large size can't ..

Not really, helium forms a very small diatomic molecule while freon is quite a large one, it can 'slip through' the plastic because of it's small size while freon with it's large size can't ..

Right.... but how big is an oxygen molecule? It's definitely been established that oxygen can slip through plastic.

the idea was that the air would be displaced with freon, therefore not allowing oxygen in (assuming the bag was completely filled) as the max. volume of the bag would be reached, not allowing for more oxygen.

also they had the whole 'triple-seal' thing going.
The bag would have to be pressurized for that to be applicable, and bags usually aren't. It would slow down oxidation for sure, but it wouldn't be able to keep the oxygen out.

Yeah, I've read about the freon method. I think air would still get in, even if the bag was filled with freon. A helium balloon leaks helium over the period of a few days, but I'm not sure if that's a valid example. I figured there would be less oxygen transfer with the vacuum bags since there's not really any room for oxygen to transfer into. Also, they're proven to work somewhat, as I've known people who've kept steaks or whatnot in them for long periods of time without any freezer burn.
Vacuum bags are made of much thicker plastic that is resistant, though not immune to, gas transfer. It works great for stuff like weed, because the pressure gradient prevents smelly weed vapors from diffusing out. The only concern I'd have with the bags is they would probably crush mushrooms.

Not really, helium forms a very small diatomic molecule while freon is quite a large one, it can 'slip through' the plastic because of it's small size while freon with it's large size can't ..
Helium is a noble gas and forms monoatomic molecules. ;)

Helium is a noble gas and forms monoatomic molecules. ;)

Yeah, I realised that RIGHT after posting it but couldn't be bothered changing it

TThe only concern I'd have with the bags is they would probably crush mushrooms.

Yeah, thats what I was thinking. They're not tough enough for the bag to form around them like other foods.

What about the dry ice method (I read about it on shroomery)? If you don't know what it is, you put a chunk of dry ice in the bottom of a mason jar and wait for it sublimate. Essentially, since C02 is heavier than air, you should be able to fill the jar up with a gas that won't oxidize the little guys. The article I read expressed concerns over impurities in the dry ice - apparently some ice has acetone in it. Does anyone have any information about the safety of consuming something bathed in dry ice (that possibly has some acetone in it).

the idea was that the air would be displaced with freon, therefore not allowing oxygen in (assuming the bag was completely filled) as the max. volume of the bag would be reached, not allowing for more oxygen.

also they had the whole 'triple-seal' thing going.

If anything that would draw more oxygen into the bag, a la osmosis. :p

The bag would have to be pressurized for that to be applicable, and bags usually aren't. It would slow down oxidation for sure, but it wouldn't be able to keep the oxygen out.




well, it work then, in a very theoretical world, if you did manage to completely fill the bag.

What about the dry ice method (I read about it on shroomery)? If you don't know what it is, you put a chunk of dry ice in the bottom of a mason jar and wait for it sublimate. Essentially, since C02 is heavier than air, you should be able to fill the jar up with a gas that won't oxidize the little guys. The article I read expressed concerns over impurities in the dry ice - apparently some ice has acetone in it. Does anyone have any information about the safety of consuming something bathed in dry ice (that possibly has some acetone in it). that should work, if the jar was completely undisturbed from air currents, ect...

I don't think it would cause health problems, as dry ice is used in coolers for meat, ect, and at least some of the ice is going to evaporate, even if kept in a freezer all the ice sublimates after a period of time...

If anything that would draw more oxygen into the bag, a la osmosisthere would be osmosis, however not after a certain pressure has been reached.

there would be osmosis, however not after a certain pressure has been reached.

(δμ = δPV) Freon-12 would be well suited for the process.

Osmosis is the diffusion of WATER, not oxygen guys.

I store bulk mushrooms for years without any noticeable loss in potency, at the cost of powdering my dried mushrooms. I dry them out 100%, grind them up really fine, then pack the powder tightly into half pint canning jars. I wrap some foil around the jars and store them in the freezer. With the shrooms powdered and packed tightly, there is minimal oxygen in the jars. Cheap, easy, effective.

It also makes it easy to make shroom gell caps or a batch of chocolates when need be.

The technique was to fill up bags with dry ice and then fill up a jar (or bottle I think in this case) with dry ice as well so the only thing diffusing either way is CO2. It's a double protective layer.

Osmosis is the diffusion of WATER, not oxygen guys.


it usually is, but doesn't have to be.

it is the diffusion of a solvent (air) across a semi-permeable membrane (the bag) to decrease the concentration of the solute (freon)

in can be made to do work, therefore it 'could' increase the pressure inside the bag...
not sure whether it actually would or not, but in any case it wouldn't matter as...

The technique was to fill up bags with dry ice and then fill up a jar (or bottle I think in this case) with dry ice as well so the only thing diffusing either way is CO2. It's a double protective layer.this

also, I believe the guy mentioned an optional third layer for the extra paranoid.

Yeah, thats what I was thinking. They're not tough enough for the bag to form around them like other foods.

What about the dry ice method (I read about it on shroomery)? If you don't know what it is, you put a chunk of dry ice in the bottom of a mason jar and wait for it sublimate. Essentially, since C02 is heavier than air, you should be able to fill the jar up with a gas that won't oxidize the little guys. The article I read expressed concerns over impurities in the dry ice - apparently some ice has acetone in it. Does anyone have any information about the safety of consuming something bathed in dry ice (that possibly has some acetone in it).
That could work. You'd have to put the lid on loosely, and then tighten it when the dry ice is all gone. You could do that with that canned air stuff too, just to displace the oxygen. Jars are pretty good at keeping gases out.

Personally, I like the idea of throwing a hand warmer into the jar, as that will eat up any stray oxygen that does manage to get in.

well, it work then, in a very theoretical world, if you did manage to completely fill the bag.
Ah, but even theoretically, you can't fill a container with gas. Gas will expand to fill any container you put it in, so the only way to measure how "full" a container is is by measuring pressure differences.

Osmosis is the diffusion of WATER, not oxygen guys.
Osmosis can apply to any fluid, whether it's liquid or gas. Duh.

The technique was to fill up bags with dry ice and then fill up a jar (or bottle I think in this case) with dry ice as well so the only thing diffusing either way is CO2. It's a double protective layer.
That's kind of pointless, as a glass jar or bottle with a metal lid is excellent at keeping out gases already. But hey, whatever works.

Ah, but even theoretically, you can't fill a container with gas. Gas will expand to fill any container you put it in, so the only way to measure how "full" a container is is by measuring pressure differences.



ah hah! correct you are...
let me reword that then - fill the bag with freon until the pressure reaches a point where osmosis is no longer possible.

good enough?

oh, and, I like the hand warmer/similar device idea to react with the oxygen...

I'd just keep it on a lil tray to keep it out contact with the mushrooms, and also maybe add a desiccant.

IIRC hand warmers have various amines that could potentially degrade and fuck up your shrooms. I don't think adding reactive chemicals to it is a good idea, unless you're able to keep the product away from the chemicals, but whatever works.

gah...

some only contain iron, activated carbon, water, salt, cellulose, and vermiculite.

don't think that would cause to much harm...

I'd just make sure and read the ingredients before you use it...

gah...

some only contain iron, activated carbon, water, salt, cellulose, and vermiculite.

don't think that would cause to much harm...

I'd just make sure and read the ingredients before you use it...

I don't know, I wouldn't want salt on my shrooms. It just seems like it would be easier to use CO2 (and please don't use freon as it causes much more global warming than CO2).

Nah, I looked at the label on the hand warmers I have. They contain charcoal and powdered iron. Anything that's supposed to come in contact with your hands isn't going to have deadly poison in it.

ah hah! correct you are...
let me reword that then - fill the bag with freon until the pressure reaches a point where osmosis is no longer possible.

good enough?
Almost! Some osmosis can occur over any pressure differential, but that would certainly decrease it by orders of magnitude. If you're lowering the oxygen to 1% of what it would have been otherwise, you may as well have eliminated it.

oh, and, I like the hand warmer/similar device idea to react with the oxygen...

I'd just keep it on a lil tray to keep it out contact with the mushrooms, and also maybe add a desiccant.
I've had a hand warmer in my mushroom jar for a few months now. This works well because you don't have to refill it with inert gas every time you pull a few shrooms out. Any oxygen you let in will be eaten up by the nontoxic iron in the hand warmer. A desiccant is probably also a good idea too, but I haven't done that.

k, I think I'm going to try the hand warmers, just keeping it out of contact with the mushrooms. along with a desiccant, opaque jar, and a freezer, this should prevent practically all degradation. amirite or amirite?

This is just me, but I would avoid freezers, as their temperature fluctuates quite a bit, every time the freezer compressor kicks on. All that expanding and contracting seems like it could make the shrooms fall apart over time. I keep mine in a dark cool spot in the basement, where the largest temperature fluctuation is probably seasonal.

Anyone know how long mushrooms are supposed to last barring any attempt to preserve them? Say, in a ziploc bag, how long would they probably last? I'm not sure what to compare it to.

splitting hairs now, are we?

not sure about how long they would last, however I do know that I barely tripped of a little over 2g of what I think were old, improperly stored shrooms. not that that counts as scientific evidence, but...

Oh, I just thought of another factor that might influence storage conditions. High pressures encourage gases to react to form solids or liquids. Low pressures encourage gases to remain gases, or encourage liquids or solids to react to form gases. For instance, when you take the cap off a 2-liter bottle of pepsi, carbonic acid reacts to form carbon dioxide and water, and pushes the reaction in that direction, hence the bubbles.

A pressurized mushroom storage environment would encourage oxygen to react with mushrooms. This is precisely what you don't want. Vacuum storage works very well because it discourages the small amount of gas inside it from reacting with the solids. Canning is another way of using this to your advantage, but you have to heat stuff to can it and this isn't so good for mushrooms.

I've noticed a slight vacuum when I've opened my mushroom jar in the past. This is really good for the shrooms, since it means the pressure favors fewer reactions.