Hello, I've been on suboxone and klonopin for quite a while. I recently switched doctors and with no questions asked I got my klon dose doubled from 1.5mg/day to 3mg day. I simply told the doc that's what I've been taking and I feel better, which is true.

So 16mg of bup and 3mg of klon (which is approx. equivalent to 60mg/diazepam) daily...the thing is that I feel normal on this combo, not 'high', as I am a former heroin/oc addict and do suffer from GAD and panic disorder. I honestly feel much better now, no panic attacks, no excessive worrying, and a much better mood. The klonopin also seems to potentate the suboxone, which I'll admit is nice. It doesn't seem to have any euphoric qualities in itself (like xanax and valium) but the drastic anxiety relief I am experiencing makes me quite happy.

So the point is- Is this combo too much or have I simply found a good doctor? I don't feel that it's too much, personally. But I'd like to know what BLTC has to say!

It's not 'too much', it's not farfetched or anything....

BUT, you might end up with a pretty bad benzo habit and obviously you are going to be dependent on the subs too... and trust me.... sub withdrawal is VERY real and drawn out, although it is not too brutal. Try to take as little klonopin as possible, even at 3mg a day you will eventually be pretty addicted and though it's not a huge dose by any means it WILL be hard to kick in the end.

Thanks for the reply, that's pretty much what I figured. I'm already dependent on both substances, it's inevitable. I think I simply finally found a good doctor, as for the first time in months I feel like a human being again. Prior to now I was constantly a nervous wreck.

Good to know things got better for you, and even better to know there's at least one doctor out there who will actually listen to you and not reprimand you for trying something and telling him about it.

Good to know things got better for you, and even better to know there's at least one doctor out there who will actually listen to you and not reprimand you for trying something and telling him about it.

Interesting you say that...every controlled substance I've gotten, except suboxone, has been because I told the doctor that I just tried whichever particular drug and it worked. I was completely honest, I really needed those drugs and most doctors understand that. Oddly, I live in one of the biggest pill abusing areas...have you seen any private practice doctors? They are the best. They listen.

They are all quacks.

dude you are not supposd to feel high when taking a benzo for medicinal reasons. And you are not supposed to feel high from buprenorphine. Sounds like your doc didnt read the huge warning on buprenorphine about not prescribing benzos with tthe bupe.

your doctor wants to off you, seriously. he expects you to go out drinking one night and suddenly forget to breathe...

I remember a thread you had a while back. You were talking about how Diazepam really helped and your doc wouldn't prescribe it.

But, glad to see you found something that worked.

Benzos are a godawful "solution" on the long term for anxiety.

This.


He's a quack but he ups the dosage of all the patients he thinks are trying to score durgz till they inevitably OD.

It's true. I think I could benefit from diazepam because I get similar anxiolic effects at lower doses (converting equivalencies, of course). I havn't asked, but this particular doc seems to think Klonopin is the best thing since electricity...now that my dose has been doubled it's definitely effective tho, so I'll probably stick with k.

This so much. Any respectable and creditable doctor or institution will tell you as much. You should take just enough benzos to tolerate doing something that makes you nervous. You shouldn't completely eliminate it with the benzos, because nervousness is a normal thing that you must learn to cope with. Its a part of life. Reaching the point of anxiety attacks and making you a total hermit isn't a normal part of life, but completely shutting down the part of your brain that makes you nervous will be more detrimental in the long run.

This so much. Any respectable and creditable doctor or institution will tell you as much. You should take just enough benzos to tolerate doing something that makes you nervous. You shouldn't completely eliminate it with the benzos, because nervousness is a normal thing that you must learn to cope with. Its a part of life. Reaching the point of anxiety attacks and making you a total hermit isn't a normal part of life, but completely shutting down the part of your brain that makes you nervous will be more detrimental in the long run.

oh my god, you just spat more truth than ive seen on this board all day

Yea keep in mind what has been said about ever coming off of it but hey just be glad you have a DR who isnt too SCARED to actually give his patients what he feels they "need" to be a "normal" person and live successfully with ope addiction and anxiety.. a lot of them now a days try to dance around actually helping due to the fears of abusing and shit..your lucky!

You can go into a lot of doctors now and just tell them some bullshit about how you just moved to the area or switched insurance providers and can't see your old doctor anymore and that you're diagnosed with (insert problem here) and (insert medicine here) is what you're taking for it. Don't expect this to work for shit like pain pills but I've done that approach to psych doctors concerning benzos and amphetamines before and I've never had it fail. The way the HIPPAA laws are now, Doctor B can't go see what Doctor A was treating you with without you going over a form of consent and signing a release of information and such, and a lot of doctors aren't going to bother as long as you're not telling them you've been on some ridiculous dose.

Don't expect it to work all the time but it's pretty effective in my experience. Mind you that I actually had been prescribed to said medicines in the past for legitimate issues and was only using this technique to "ease the transition", so I don't recommend or advise or condone you to do this for the sake of doctor shopping and/or getting a script for shits and giggles.

So the point is- Is this combo too much or have I simply found a good doctor? I don't feel that it's too much, personally. But I'd like to know what BLTC has to say!

All you are doing is switching from one addiction to another

Your doctor is a fucking moron for upping your klonopin dose

And have fun being addicted to benzos..... and good luck getting off of them :o

All you are doing is switching from one addiction to another

Your doctor is a fucking moron for upping your klonopin dose

And have fun being addicted to benzos..... and good luck getting off of them :o

Panic disorder isn't something to be taken lightly, and neither is opiate addiction. Currently I am managing both, and I'll admit these meds do make me feel good, but that is sort of the point of suboxone maintance because I feel that I don't need other drugs. People with addictive personalities simply want to be 'high' all the time. I'm not high all the time, but I feel happier than I ever have. I consider suboxone my antidepressant, as it seems to act as one, and klonopin is a great anxiolic. I know it will be difficult to get off these particular drugs, but as long as they're working, why should I?

The way the HIPPAA laws are now, Doctor B can't go see what Doctor A was treating you with without you going over a form of consent and signing a release of information and such

This is a fallacy that most people do not fully understand. Any healh care provider or even your health insurance can request your medical records from any other as long as they are treating you or providing a health care service to you. its all in the HIPPA complaince documentation

oh my god, you just spat more truth than ive seen on this board all day


Of course, THC is one of our more respected memebers here - not to mention he was once a mod in this forum.

Of course, THC is one of our more respected memebers here - not to mention he was once a mod in this forum.
Under a different name or just before my time?

Under a different name or just before my time?


Must have been before your time I guess.

All you are doing is switching from one addiction to another

Your doctor is a fucking moron for upping your klonopin dose

And have fun being addicted to benzos..... and good luck getting off of them :o

Just give it up man, this is one of those people who are only going to learn the lesson the hard way. Unfortunate, of course, but hey, I'm sure we both understand what I'm talking about.

Just came across this old thread while searching on google...anyway, I've been on 3mg/klonopin/day for a month now and I can honestly say that it is a VERY effective anxiety med, and has very little side effects, compared to newer crappy SSRI's and the dreaded seroquel...all which I have tried, and they all SUCKED. For all of you whom think that my doctor is an idiot for upping my dose, ask yourself, have you ever experienced panic disorder? If so, you know how awful it can be. Now, ask yourself, if you found a medication that worked well for you, killed the panic attacks, with minimal side effects, why the fuck WOULDN'T you take it? Besides, I learned a long time ago that klonopin is practically worthless when used recreationally. I can't 'feel' 15mg of the stuff! In my opinion, it is probably the best benzo out there for recovering drug addicts with anxiety problems. No rush like xanax, long half life meaning no in between cravings, and very mild euphoric effects. I can barely tell that I'm on it at all. Sure, it may be a bitch to get off of, but I don't care. I don't want to get off of it because after YEARS of suffering with anxiety attacks, I am finally at peace.:D

For all of you whom think that my doctor is an idiot for upping my dose, ask yourself, have you ever experienced panic disorder? If so, you know how awful it can be. Now, ask yourself, if you found a medication that worked well for you, killed the panic attacks, with minimal side effects, why the fuck WOULDN'T you take it? I can barely tell that I'm on it at all. Sure, it may be a bitch to get off of, but I don't care.

Stop.... right there

Save that paragraph to your computer, and look at it 2 or 3 years from now and you will realize why those of us who told you not to open that door told you it in the first place

Also, save mine and POC's posts so we can honestly say 'we told you so'

This so much. Any respectable and creditable doctor or institution will tell you as much. You should take just enough benzos to tolerate doing something that makes you nervous. You shouldn't completely eliminate it with the benzos, because nervousness is a normal thing that you must learn to cope with. Its a part of life. Reaching the point of anxiety attacks and making you a total hermit isn't a normal part of life, but completely shutting down the part of your brain that makes you nervous will be more detrimental in the long run.

Yup, they stop us worrying about things that don't matter, but also things that do matter such as money and personal safety.

I dunno if it will be any different with the "clear-headed" anxiolytics we'll soon see. We might be able to realise the consequences, but will we care? I suppose we only have to look at kava users for an answer.

Stop.... right there

Save that paragraph to your computer, and look at it 2 or 3 years from now and you will realize why those of us who told you not to open that door told you it in the first place

I think he's already past the point of door analogies, being addicted to a moderate dose.

xanned: please just do one thing for me. Ask your doctor what his long-term plan is with your medication -- is he gonna keep escalating the dose or put you through withdrawal at some point?

Surely the dose-escalation would eventually reach a point where you simply can't afford the meds or they cause liver damage...

I'm glad I live in a country where long-term benzo prescription for a teenager is laughable, or I would be a lot more messed up than I am.

Sure, it may be a bitch to get off of, but I don't care.

Better you than me.

Sure, I'll ask him. I'm sure he'll be willing to up my dose if it becomes necessary, although ime, once I find a dose that works, it seems to work indefinitly. In fact, I was on xanax 1.5 for months and that worked fine. I decided to try to get off of it because it was working so well I didn't think I needed it anymore. Since this med works for me, I will use it, period. I may find I don't want to ever get off of it. I've tried all the other 'anxiolic' meds, and this is what works for me. The others simply have awful side effects I'd rather not deal with (sexual dysfunction, night sweats, ect). Furthermore, I know several people whom have been on benzos for 10, even 20 years without problems. For those of you whom had problems with your benzo treatment, all I can say is you were probably abusing it too much, because these drugs work miracles for me, as long as I don't over abuse. Don't knock them because you fucked up.:D

Yup, they stop us worrying about things that don't matter, but also things that do matter such as money and personal safety.

I dunno if it will be any different with the "clear-headed" anxiolytics we'll soon see. We might be able to realise the consequences, but will we care? I suppose we only have to look at kava users for an answer.



I think he's already past the point of door analogies, being addicted to a moderate dose.

xanned: please just do one thing for me. Ask your doctor what his long-term plan is with your medication -- is he gonna keep escalating the dose or put you through withdrawal at some point?

Surely the dose-escalation would eventually reach a point where you simply can't afford the meds or they cause liver damage...

I'm glad I live in a country where long-term benzo prescription for a teenager is laughable, or I would be a lot more messed up than I am.

You're a fucking imbecile. Albeit abuse and misuse of benzodiazepines greatly increases the likelihood of adverse effects, there have been and continue to be and will be in the future many instances of people on benzodiazepine therapy who use the medicine correctly yet still become physical dependent and tolerant over time-- it's a simple fact of pharmacology. If you can use the things PRN/as needed, then props to you; you've got a hell of a better chance of avoiding dependency and/or addiction.

But hey, you're the one who's an admitted former opiate addict-- apparently still taking a high-dose regimen of Suboxone-- so I'm sure you're completely responsible to handle long-term controlled use of a highly physically addictive prescription tranquilizer.

I could give two fucks less what you ultimately do with yourself and your medical treatment, but don't try to make me look like some retarded fiend-motherfucker just because you don't agree with the advice I'm giving you based on my personal experience.

Of course physical dependence is an inevitable result of using an addictive medication. What's your point? I'm not planning on stopping them suddenly and they're working just fine. I'm not out to make you look like a "retarded fiend mother fucker", where you got that impression is beyond me, as I stated that you're much more likely to run into problems down the road if you abuse (been there, I learned). I'm just pointing out the fact that many people use these meds without issues. Happy New Year!

You're a fucking imbecile. Albeit abuse and misuse of benzodiazepines greatly increases the likelihood of adverse effects, there have been and continue to be and will be in the future many instances of people on benzodiazepine therapy who use the medicine correctly yet still become physical dependent and tolerant over time-- it's a simple fact of pharmacology. If you can use the things PRN/as needed, then props to you; you've got a hell of a better chance of avoiding dependency and/or addiction.

But hey, you're the one who's an admitted former opiate addict-- apparently still taking a high-dose regimen of Suboxone-- so I'm sure you're completely responsible to handle long-term controlled use of a highly physically addictive prescription tranquilizer.

I could give two fucks less what you ultimately do with yourself and your medical treatment, but don't try to make me look like some retarded fiend-motherfucker just because you don't agree with the advice I'm giving you based on my personal experience.

But hey, you're the one who's an admitted former opiate addict-- apparently still taking a high-dose regimen of Suboxone-- so I'm sure you're completely responsible to handle long-term controlled use of a highly physically addictive prescription tranquilizer.


Lol im sorry but i found that sentence fucking hysterical :D

As bad as it is, its true; to me it just seems like your useing another drug as a crutch to your problems. Before this it was oxy and heroin, and now its going to be benzos. Same situation, different drug. And you thought opiate w/d's where bad, you aint seen shit yet

once I find a dose that works, it seems to work indefinitly.

I've heard this on www.socialfear.com too:

Myths About Benzodiazepines:
* "Benzodiazepine dose keeps escalating": False. Dose usually stabilizes after a few months

Unfortunately it's total bullshit. These kind of websites are run by patients, not people who are qualified or even know much about pharmacology.

If you are experiencing any anxiolytic activity, you are pushing your GABA receptors away from homeostasis, and they will respond.

Your dose may remain the same for several months, yes. However, eventually you will have to up the dose. It is a simple fact of the mechanics of our brain.

I guarantee that over a few months, perhaps even a year, your benefits from the new dose will fade. It will eventually reach the point where they just make you feel like you did with no meds.

I'm very interested in what your doctor will say about the long term plans.

Xanned: Didn't you recently make a thread saying that your benzo treatment WASN'T working? And now you claim that once you find a dose, it works indefinately? So you built that assumption after just recently finding your working dose...doesn't make sense, negro. That's not how benzos work. Problems also don't result solely from abuse, though theyre much more likely. You said some other dumb things, but I don't remember.

PoC: Eh, we both know how the road through the valley goes. There's other roads up higher, but they're hard to find. And heights just give you further to fall; this kid seems like the kind to suffer from vertigo. Don't turn your experiences into absolute truth if you can help it, though.

Everyone else: I've been prescribed benzos on and off for years, and abused them in between, sometimes in large quantities. They can work wonders: I wouldn't have made new friends in this new city in this new school without klonopin. But they can also be terrible: I died from an overdose, and have ruined many interpersonal relationships while on benzos.

It's like fucking with unstable explosives. Sure, you can use them productively to kill your enemies and blow up tree stumps, but there's always the possibility its gonna blow up and take your hands.

Except outside the metaphor, you can't get a prosthetic.

mike

Let me correct your misinterpretations here:

Yes, I did make a thread stated that my benzos were not working, and they were not, at the time. That is because I switched from xanax, which WAS working, to klonopin, which was NOT working at an equivalent dose. With me so far? I had my dose raised, and NOW they DO work.

And no, you're wrong once again, as I stated that the xanax dose that I was on DID in fact work for a LONG TIME (over 6 months). So my assumption was not based on one month of functional klonopin treatment, as you stated. In fact, the xanax worked so well that I thought I didn't need it anymore. When I switched to klonopin to attempt to taper is when they stopped working for me. After unsuccessfully attempting to get off of them, I realized my panic disorder was still there, and finally found a doctor who is not scared to death of being sued, so he put me on a dose that does work. Bleh. Fucking internet fights...

Xanned: Didn't you recently make a thread saying that your benzo treatment WASN'T working? And now you claim that once you find a dose, it works indefinately? So you built that assumption after just recently finding your working dose...doesn't make sense, negro. That's not how benzos work. Problems also don't result solely from abuse, though theyre much more likely. You said some other dumb things, but I don't remember.

PoC: Eh, we both know how the road through the valley goes. There's other roads up higher, but they're hard to find. And heights just give you further to fall; this kid seems like the kind to suffer from vertigo. Don't turn your experiences into absolute truth if you can help it, though.

Everyone else: I've been prescribed benzos on and off for years, and abused them in between, sometimes in large quantities. They can work wonders: I wouldn't have made new friends in this new city in this new school without klonopin. But they can also be terrible: I died from an overdose, and have ruined many interpersonal relationships while on benzos.

It's like fucking with unstable explosives. Sure, you can use them productively to kill your enemies and blow up tree stumps, but there's always the possibility its gonna blow up and take your hands.

Except outside the metaphor, you can't get a prosthetic.

mike

Dude, six months isn't shit.

We're all talking in terms of years here.

I'm not the one saying "Don't ever use benzos, they are a total evil force in the universe." I'm just telling you my experience.

mike

Sure, I respect your opinion and you have a right to have one. Let's just lay this thread to rest. I'll let you guys know how I feel in a year or two. BTW, my doc does seem to think that the dose im on will work indefinitely, which probably is not true...so when they stop working I'll either taper or find another doc. But I have a feeling if I absolutely need a dosage raise, which is unlikely, he would probably do it. He's a pretty easy going guy. Got my suboxone changed to subutex pretty much no questions asked...I feel much better now. No headaches, no nausea, just a nice clean buzz!

Haha ha

Panic disorder isn't something to be taken lightly, and neither is opiate addiction. Currently I am managing both, and I'll admit these meds do make me feel good, but that is sort of the point of suboxone maintance because I feel that I don't need other drugs. People with addictive personalities simply want to be 'high' all the time. I'm not high all the time, but I feel happier than I ever have. I consider suboxone my antidepressant, as it seems to act as one, and klonopin is a great anxiolic. I know it will be difficult to get off these particular drugs, but as long as they're working, why should I?

The Wiki article on Sobo's mentions some anti-depressant qualities. Perhaps your Opiate addiction has some sort of co-relation to your anxiety. Like a previous poster mentioned feeling nervous is a normal emotion and shouldn't be completely shut off with drugs. Panic disorders are a different thing but you may have conditioned yourself to counteract the anxiety with dope. And hence when your not on dope you will experience more anxiety from withdrawals and the previous mental conditioning.

Have you experienced anxiety problems before your opiate dependency and turned to dope for relief?

Or did you start to notice frequent panic attacks during and after your drug use?

The Wiki article on Sobo's mentions some anti-depressant qualities. Perhaps your Opiate addiction has some sort of co-relation to your anxiety. Like a previous poster mentioned feeling nervous is a normal emotion and shouldn't be completely shut off with drugs. Panic disorders are a different thing but you may have conditioned yourself to counteract the anxiety with dope. And hence when your not on dope you will experience more anxiety from withdrawals and the previous mental conditioning.

Have you experienced anxiety problems before your opiate dependency and turned to dope for relief?

Or did you start to notice frequent panic attacks during and after your drug use?

The panic attacks started when I took an antibiotic, Cirpo, that gave me the most out of this world panic attacks and left me permantly fucked...

When I was finally taken of my daily benzo dose, I was hospitalized with seizures - and - I shit my pants.

Not a very pleasant experience. I recommend you be careful - there WILL come a time when some one takes you off them - and I can tell you right now, in my experience, being sick on benzo's makes being dope sick seem like a church.