If you don't think Canada matters, don't post here. Simple, innit?

I really don't know what to make of this thing. It's so unprecedented... a part of me is glad to see Stephen Harper getting his rotten fucking Albertan ass kicked out, but Stephane Dion is pathetic and is going to be replaced in five months anyway. Also, I like the fact that the NDP will gain potent influence, but I did NOT want it to happen in this way. All the coalition is doing is creating political uncertainty and instability. This is the absolute worst time for political instability.

Furthermore, although this power grab is perfectly legal, it fucking reeks of sneaky back-door politics. I voted NDP, but I respect the fact that the Conservatives managed to form a minority government. It's just sneaky and un-Canadian. And stooping to the level of cooperating with people who want to see Canada torn apart? Fucking despicable. With the last election, I was hesitant to vote for any of the major parties... now, there is no doubt about it, my next vote will be for the Green party. Every single party in parliament has lost my respect.

Most Canadians, whether Confags want to admit it or not, voted left/centrist. 62% in fact. For the government to NOT represent them is undemocratic. We need a united left to stop this garbage NOW. Then maybe our government can get shit done.

Valid point. You have to consider this, however: will shit get done? With the NDP and the Liberals sharing executive power and the Bloc supporting them... it just doesn't add up. The Bloc just makes it even more unpromising. What does the Bloc want to gain here? I'm all for an united left, but not in this manner.

I think that with the unification of the left, however fragmented it may be at present, Canada will see an Americanization of its politics. If only the Alliance and the PCs had never merged...

And, hey, I can always dream of a truly democratic and socialist Canada, eh?

You and me both... you and me both.

Valid point. You have to consider this, however: will shit get done? With the NDP and the Liberals sharing executive power and the Bloc supporting them... it just doesn't add up. The Bloc just makes it even more unpromising. What does the Bloc want to gain here? I'm all for an united left, but not in this manner.

I think at this point anything is preferable to what we have. The House of Commons is paralysed - Harper keeps trying to pass dumbshit bills (a la funding and C-51) that the opposition rightfully shoots down along with any legitimate bills in the works.

With the majority aligned they can introduce legislation that will pass, and hopefully be effective. This will should promote stability, and reduce (but not cease) the ridiculous back and forth between the parties.

What does the Bloc stand to gain from this? Stuff for Quebec. Their industry is hurting now, and the coalition promises to help them along. There is also the fact that the parties do seem to agree on most of the key issues (remember the debates? It was basically a Harper roast).

I agree that the way this coalition is being built and played out is poor, and it's going to make things rocky for a bit, but we need it now more than ever. I don't think we could stand to wait another term while Harper runs amok.

I think that with the unification of the left, however fragmented it may be at present, Canada will see an Americanization of its politics. If only the Alliance and the PCs had never merged...


I see it more as a return to our roots. Two parties - one Liberal and one Conservative. It's how things were run for quite a while, and it may make things smoother.

And, hell, the Communist Party will always be there.

Besides, if the rumours are true, the Alliance is starting to crack. The fiscally-minded Tories are beginning to realize exactly who they've committed to work with - social conservatives. There were quite a number of prominent faces in the Conservative party - cabinet ministers among them - who failed to give Harper an ovation or any kind of applause post-election. A coalition government may strengthen or cripple this party, we'll see.

Either way, though. I think Harper may be on his last legs.

(also, as a sidebar: notice how nobody's been called a traitor/jew/nigger yet? This is why Canadian politics > American politics)

Besides, if the rumours are true, the Alliance is starting to crack. The fiscally-minded Tories are beginning to realize exactly who they've committed to work with - social conservatives. There were quite a number of prominent faces in the Conservative party - cabinet ministers among them - who failed to give Harper an ovation or any kind of applause post-election. A coalition government may strengthen or cripple this party, we'll see.

Either way, though. I think Harper may be on his last legs.

(also, as a sidebar: notice how nobody's been called a traitor/jew/nigger yet? This is why Canadian politics > American politics)

No, I don't forsee the right splitting. That would just be stupid. I do see however a leadership referendum.

Not to highjack the thread, but lets hear your shortlist for potential Harper replacements. Here is mine

Stockwell Day
Now this person has come along way since the Alliance circa 2000. He's dropped the Christy Conservative schtick and has proven himself to be an astute political player.

Peter McKay
Hes got the charisma and the popularity. Plus, hes a player pimp. We was nailing Belinda Stronach, who is a total MILF for the longest time. And also a Military Hawk.

Jason Kenney
This guy has leadership potential, but he has never had an oppritunity to shine.

Stockwell Day


Now, I know all politicians are essentially slime, but my family knows this man personally -- I have to take a special objection to this ridiculous man; I would not want him running our country.

Cytosine, I really have to finish up some work here, but I'll respond to what you've written later. I could go on about this shit for days. And yes, it is very nice that Canadians actually have a degree of civility when discussing politics ;).

This pleases me.

I expect a coalition to be just as awful as the current government but in their own special leftist way. I expect to be watching the news for shits n' giggles more often.

So long as us Quebecois vote in a non separatist leader as our premier I think we should be fine. Otherwise, the value on my house is going to go straight down the drain not to mention I'm going to have to book it to Ontario before Quebec breaks off from the mainland.

.-FSB-.

Breaks off from the mainland? are you suggesting it's going to start drifting east towards france? :P

Most Canadians, whether Confags want to admit it or not, voted left/centrist. 62% in fact. For the government to NOT represent them is undemocratic. We need a united left to stop this garbage NOW. Then maybe our government can get shit done.



Unfortunately, that's not how the government works. The party with the MOST votes wins. Liberals did not vote for the NDP in the last election and NDPers did not vote for a Liberal government. If they would like to join forces and then have an election against the Tories, fine. But I guarantee they will be painfully defeated.

If this garbage goes through. I and many other western Canadians are all for Western separation. Maybe Onterio and Quebec can do better without all of our resources. If it turns out they can't, we'd kindly sell them some for a ridiculously jacked-up price!

I and many other western Canadians are all for Western separation.

NO.

Alberta can go if it wishes. B.C. is part of Canada and will remain so.

Unfortunately, that's not how the government works. The party with the MOST votes wins. Liberals did not vote for the NDP in the last election and NDPers did not vote for a Liberal government. If they would like to join forces and then have an election against the Tories, fine. But I guarantee they will be painfully defeated.


Uhh... no it isn't.
The candidate with the most votes in any given riding wins, the party with the most seats generally forms government in Canada, however what's basically happening is the Governor General is appointing a PM who will have the confidence of the house.

However Canada is fucked compared to most westminster systems around the world, as I said, because parties won't work together properly and minority governments can't secure supply/confidence. In most similar countries - Australia, the UK, New Zealand, ect, it would usually take extraordinary circumstances for something like this to happen. First past the post *should* prevent minor parties even gaining much of a hold in parliament (look at how hard it is for the Libdems in the UK), but the Bloc and NDP have strong regional support that translates into seats effectively.

If the house of commons passes a motion of no confidence in the government, then the government falls and the Governor General will have to ask someone who DOES have the confidence of the house to form government.

There's nothing 'undemocratic' about this action per se, a parliamentary democracy after all is not a perfectly democratic system and anything 'undemocratic' stems from the system itself.
Anyway you voted for your local member. There's your say.

NO.

Alberta can go if it wishes. B.C. is part of Canada and will remain so.

I don't know any British Columbians who would like getting screwed by The Three Stooges thousands of miles away (No offense to The Three Stooges).

In any case, Stalin would be proud of this situation.

I don't know any British Columbians who would like getting screwed by The Three Stooges thousands of miles away (No offense to The Three Stooges).

In any case, Stalin would be proud of this situation.

(Okay, here goes the civility of the thread.)

Shut the fuck up, you rhetoric-spewing piece of shit.

The Stalin reference is completely and utterly irrelevant to the situation, and the "Three Stooges" argument is another absurd NeoCon ad hominem.

No matter how much people explain to you that this is democratic, you won't listen. You'll just keep spewing the same hate-filled rhetoric; hoping against hope that it'll become true if you post it enough.

I wouldn't even object to your disagreement with the position I hold if you understood one, single fucking thing about the first past the post system, or even had a valid point. But you don't, and now you're BAAAAAAAAAWWWWW'ing about how it may screw your leader for trying to bully his way through a minority government.

Oh, and by the way, you can drop this crazy little fantasy of Western separation because I can guarantee you that it won't happen. See, Quebec tried this a few years back and it didn't work out so well for them. I have confidence that we could still make Trudeau proud.

(Okay, here goes the civility of the thread.)

Shut the fuck up, you rhetoric-spewing piece of shit.

The Stalin reference is completely and utterly irrelevant to the situation, and the "Three Stooges" argument is another absurd NeoCon ad hominem.

No matter how much people explain to you that this is democratic, you won't listen. You'll just keep spewing the same hate-filled rhetoric; hoping against hope that it'll become true if you post it enough.

I wouldn't even object to your disagreement with the position I hold if you understood one, single fucking thing about the first past the post system, or even had a valid point. But you don't, and now you're BAAAAAAAAAWWWWW'ing about how it may screw your leader for trying to bully his way through a minority government.

Oh, and by the way, you can drop this crazy little fantasy of Western separation because I can guarantee you that it won't happen. See, Quebec tried this a few years back and it didn't work out so well for them. I have confidence that we could still make Trudeau proud.

He didn't even respond to my post. Surely I deserve a bit of hate-filled rhetoric. :(

(also, as a sidebar: notice how nobody's been called a traitor/jew/nigger yet? This is why Canadian politics > American politics)

Face it Canadian, your country is every bit as American as ours, and that includes your politics.

Nobody's called each other a traitor yet? Maybe you ought to read some of those Canadian blogs, or better yet, a quote by Harper himself, accusing the Liberal party of betraying the country. You don't have to say the word outright to be every bit as bad as the fucktards who call someone a traitor to advance their political goals.

Nice.

What the Liberal and NDP and Bloc party is doing is an attack on democracy. I dont see how doing this at this time will help our horrable economy(specificly Ontario) We just had an election recently and it had a low voter turn-out so if they did this again so soon it would annoy people and would likely result in even less people voting. If this alliance happened during the next scheduled election, that would be fair game and maybe a good idea but right now during war and economic crisis this is a bad idea and will not help our country at all. This alliance reminds me of 3 people "jumping" / assaulting 1. it will work but it is cowardly and unfair. a real man can fight one on one and win. PS Canada is in a unpopular war and the conservatives STILL got re-elected. They won fair and square, get over it. Dion was getting lynched a few weeks ago so this news was a surprise to me. Finally, Canada has never been attacked by terrorists. so i think the conservative government is doing a pretty good job. but something needs to be done about our economy. Ontario is experiancing massive lay-off's and are losing tons of people to the West Coast.

Our half-wit governor general just allowed the suspension of parliament for 8 weeks. In the middle of an economic crisis. How the fuck do idiots like this get these jobs? The one important decision she has to make and she completely screws over the country. The "democratic" process in this country needs to be drastically changed. A minority government is a fucking ridiculous concept.

I voted for the green party because I hate Harper and Dion and I really really fucking hate Layton. So yeah, most Canadians don't want a conservative government but they're in because the NDP and liberals aren't the same party. And shouldn't be. The liberals are sore losers, everyone blamed dion for their loss as soon as the election ended, because, of course, it was all his fault and no one elses. People need to start voting for parties that aren't the big 3. And fuck bloc quebecois seriously how do they get so many votes they don't even deserve mention. Jack Layton also really sucks cock. That is all.

Face it Canadian, your country is every bit as American as ours, and that includes your politics.

Nobody's called each other a traitor yet? Maybe you ought to read some of those Canadian blogs, or better yet, a quote by Harper himself, accusing the Liberal party of betraying the country. You don't have to say the word outright to be every bit as bad as the fucktards who call someone a traitor to advance their political goals.

Nice.

Says the guy who keeps crossing the border to come drinking.

What the Liberal and NDP and Bloc party is doing is an attack on democracy. I dont see how doing this at this time will help our horrable economy(specificly Ontario) We just had an election recently and it had a low voter turn-out so if they did this again so soon it would annoy people and would likely result in even less people voting. If this alliance happened during the next scheduled election, that would be fair game and maybe a good idea but right now during war and economic crisis this is a bad idea and will not help our country at all. This alliance reminds me of 3 people "jumping" / assaulting 1. it will work but it is cowardly and unfair. a real man can fight one on one and win. PS Canada is in a unpopular war and the conservatives STILL got re-elected. They won fair and square, get over it. Dion was getting lynched a few weeks ago so this news was a surprise to me. Finally, Canada has never been attacked by terrorists. so i think the conservative government is doing a pretty good job. but something needs to be done about our economy. Ontario is experiancing massive lay-off's and are losing tons of people to the West Coast.

Learn how your own system of government works.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westminster_System

Three somewhat ideologically aligned parties who together hold a parliamentary majority normally ARE in government.
(okay - in this case it'd be two in government with the support of the third, anywho).

If Harper had a majority or for instance secured the support of say the Bloc for confidence votes, this wouldn't be possible.

Says the guy who keeps crossing the border to come drinking.

That might be true if I actually drank. I hear one of the few good things Canucks have going for them is the beer. Probably keeps them warm through the cold winter night and fucktarded politics.

Numbs the pain, amirite?

I believe I've lost all faith in the NDP and the Liberals. I never had much respect for the Conservatives, but now that Harper has initiated a fucking prorogue, I am simply at a loss for words. The Liberals are dead now. We'll need a unified leftist party. Until that happens, I'm voting Green.

edit:

That might be true if I actually drank. I hear one of the few good things Canucks have going for them is the beer. Probably keeps them warm through the cold winter night and fucktarded politics.

Numbs the pain, amirite?

Fucktarded politics? You've lived under George Bush and endured countless despicable scandals for nearly eight years. Cold winter night? You live in Michigan, which is just as cold as southern Ontario, and is much colder than coastal BC, where I live. STFU.

Fucktarded politics? You've lived under George Bush and endured countless despicable scandals for nearly eight years. Cold winter night? You live in Michigan, which is just as cold as southern Ontario, and is much colder than coastal BC, where I live. STFU.

Damn straight. Living under W. has made it easier for me to recognize fucktardation when I see it, and when your political figureheads start using the words "betrayal" and "traitor", then they're nothing more than the same bullshit with a Canadian twist. Fucktardation is universal. Welcome to politics.

Michigan is cold? Maybe I haven't noticed because I only recently moved back here and have only been here a couple winters, but it's not anywhere near as cold as Alaska, and from what I understand your weather is more in line with Alaska's, not Michigan's.

Michigan is cold? Maybe I haven't noticed because I only recently moved back here and have only been here a couple winters, but it's not anywhere near as cold as Alaska, and from what I understand your weather is more in line with Alaska's, not Michigan's.

Detroit by month:

J22.9 F25.4 M35.7 A47.3 M58.4 J67.6 J72.3 A70.5 S63.2 O51.2 N40.2 D28.3

Toronto:

9.7 16.8 28.1 43.3 56.7 66.0 70.8 68.9 58.9 46.0 28.9 14.4

Detroit by month:

J22.9 F25.4 M35.7 A47.3 M58.4 J67.6 J72.3 A70.5 S63.2 O51.2 N40.2 D28.3

Toronto:

9.7 16.8 28.1 43.3 56.7 66.0 70.8 68.9 58.9 46.0 28.9 14.4

Oh, detroit, lol. It's a shithole anyway.

I live in the southwestern corner of the state, nearer to Grand Rapids. It gets kinda frosty, but nowhere near as shitty hell-freezing over cold as Alaska did.

It seems the less people actually know about how Canada's political system works the more they buy into Stephen Harper's bullshit about this being democratic. I particularly like how Parliament was suspended when Stephen Harper did not have the support of the House of Commons. The New York Times said it well with their headline "Canadian leader shuts Parliament in bid to keep power". The best thing to come out of this is some of the quotations.

"I cannot have confidence in a prime minister who would throw the locks on the door of this place, knowing that he's about to lose a vote in the House of Commons. That's denying about as fundamental a right as one has in a democracy." - NDP Leader Jack Layton.

"We must realize the enormity of what has happened here today. For the first time in the history of Canada, the prime minister of Canada is running away from the Parliament of Canada." - Liberal Leader Stephane Dion.

"We must realize the enormity of what has happened here today. For the first time in the history of Canada, the prime minister of Canada is running away from the Parliament of Canada." - Liberal Leader Stephane Dion.

More like "we mus' realize the e-nor-mah-ty of wat 'az 'appened 'ere today. For de firs' time in de 'istory of Ca-na-dah, de Prime Min-es-terr owf Ca-na-dah is run-ing ah-way frohm de Parl-eh-mint owf Ca-na-dah."

Yeah, nothing to contribute here. I just think it's ridiculous that Dion can't speak English.

More like "we mus' realize the e-nor-mah-ty of wat 'az 'appened 'ere today. For de firs' time in de 'istory of Ca-na-dah, de Prime Min-es-terr owf Ca-na-dah is run-ing ah-way frohm de Parl-eh-mint owf Ca-na-dah."

Yeah, nothing to contribute here. I just think it's ridiculous that Dion can't speak English.

He has a hearing impairment!

http://www.nationalpost.com/news/canada/story.html?id=777961

Lets kick the bums out! I hope you Canada-fags do your part, I been organizing the ex-pat community over here (across the ocean) to try and keep tabs on the whole situation - looks like nothing new will happen till Jan tho.

He has a hearing impairment!

I have met people who are completely deaf and are easier to understand. Plus I don't think anyone has a problem understanding his French.

The Liberals and New Democrats lost seats in the election. If there was a time for a coalition it was two years ago when the Conservatives has the weakest minority government in history.

Do any canucks here feel the same way I do? I think the role of a Governor General is just a pointless figurehead for the monarchy. So Harper wanted to suspend parliament to save his own ass, what a relief that he can depend Michele Jean to support his desires. The governor Governor General benefits our country in no way at all

Governor Generals rarely do. Only once in Australia's history has ours done anything at all useful, and people got so butthurt about it that it pretty much couldn't happen now. They make sure everyone appointed to the position is at best a useless shill.

http://www.rabble.ca/babble/canadian-politics/text-coalition-agreement

The coalition agreement isn't some long and complicated piece of literature. Outside of separatism, the Bloc is an excellent party.

Proroguing parliament was so irresponsible.

Outside of separatism, the Bloc is an excellent party.

It's a party that does not give a rats ass about anything outside of Quebec that get to vote on matters that effect all of Canada. How is that good in any way?

Their policies are good... for Quebec. That's about all there is to say. It means jack shit for Canada, it's actually bad for Canada as a whole, but there's a reason those people in Quebec vote for the Bloc.

Anyway, the whole suspension of Parliament is retarded. Remind me again why Canada remains a constitutional monarchy? Does the Queen live her? Does she give a rats ass about Canada at all? And who is the Governer-General anyway and what makes her so qualified to have a limited dictatorial status over the country as a whole? Same goes for the Senate, really.

This is why I, as a person living in Canada, find Canadian politics to be a joke. I just can't take them seriously when something like this happens and I'm reminded that in the end, our government is a play-government and when we're done building up our block towers and tearing them down again, Mother will come in our room and tuck us in to bed, but not before making us brush our teeth!

Please, PLEASE become a Republic guys. It might just kick Ausfags back into action on the issue.

Funny how Dion is being forced to step down a day after Parliament was put on hold. Everyone knows he's a huge liability, especially those in the Liberal camp, They know their fucked with him.

I can't stand the guy. His incoherent shouting, his "video" announcement to the country was incredibly amateur-night for him and his crew. Plus he just comes off as a sore-loser/wimp.

If only we had had made Jack Layton as Prime Minister, I think things would go quite swimmingly.
But NO! you fools had to all go for harper again, FOR SHAME!

Anyway, Harper either, has something up his sleeve, or is really stupid.

Anyway, Harper either, has something up his sleeve, or is really stupid.

When are you going to get over this right wing conspiracy thing? The man's been in power for several years and there's nothing sinister so far.

They picked Ignatieff because everybody knows they should have last time. Time to read up on your next Prime Minister Canada - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Ignatieff

Ignatieff is a very intelligent man. They should have chosen him before Kermit the Frog fucked the party over. I think Ignatieff and Harper will be able to work cooperatively when parliament resumes.

When are you going to get over this right wing conspiracy thing? The man's been in power for several years and there's nothing sinister so far.

I feel justified in referring to Harper's dealings with the media as sinister. Ignatieff should be able to pull a lot of support back to the Liberals.

Ignatieff seems quite respectable. I think it was a good pick. Of course, the Liberals haven't won my vote just yet... but at least the man who is probably going to be our PM isn't some fucking joke like Dion. And yes, he's a very intellectually accomplished man... I appreciate Ignatieff's somewhat less rhetoric-filled speeches and toned down partisan behavior; he seems to be full of a lot less shit than Dion -- or perhaps I only think Dion is full of shit because of his piss-poor English.

In any case, I'd really like my Government to be working right now .

He may have intelligence, but to those in the Rae camp and the Proletariat he comes off as a pompus faggot.

I can only hope he causes a deeper divide in the party, and some MPs jump ship to either the NDP or the Cons.

When are you going to get over this right wing conspiracy thing? The man's been in power for several years and there's nothing sinister so far.

Yeah, but we live in hope.

I like how Harper ripped off the Australian prime minister's speech to try and get us into Iraq.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3PSk4bjK_4

Has there been any more word? Harpers Stalling time is almost up.


Though i'd rather see Jack Layton up instead of Dion.