So my experiment is going to be over soon; or, at least, I will be attempting to end it soon (a year early no less.. that's how difficult it gets). For those of you that don't have any idea what I'm talking about, this probably won't mean much to you -- and to those of you who know what I'm talking about, this will probably mean less to you than the fact that the experiment is (purportedly) ending. The experiment was to get drunk, in company or alone, for 4-6 days of the week for 5 years and see how it would affect someone. Does it make you a good writer like the others? What are typical drunks like and is it really like people assume? Will I turn into Nick Nolte?

Therefore, although this is far less valuable to you than to myself, I've started to think about those things I've learned and experienced, and I'm trying to make sense of it all. I'm not sure whether I'll be able to elucidate this all until a long while after this has ended, but I'm guessing that there's no harm in trying. So here goes... first some bad things:



*** As predicted, the behavior is self-perpetuating -- but to a degree that I had not expected at all, which is why I'm going to have a hard time ending it. Everyone's heard the cliché about walking in the shoes of another, but you can't walk here and understand it after a few weeks, or even a year. If you are not affected by this particular condition, you do not understand it. At all. Spare your platitudes about personal responsibility and self-respect and caring about those around you. They mean nothing, and are perpetuated by people that don't understand it in the first place.



*** It does, in fact, affect those around you. But not how you would expect. You tend to guard those who tried to make you into a [decent] person, and then flood those who you've run into along the way toward an inevitable death with your problems. I always thought that it was rather strange that families never seemed to do much of anything about it, but the fact is that they rarely know the severity thereof. It is our instinct, I believe, to protect those who at least attempted to protect us throughout our lives, however ineffective their pursuits might be(come). We don't want our parents to think their efforts failed nor do we want to appear as failures to them, and so we hide. Which I guess isn't much of an epiphany, but it is especially important in this kind of scenario.

On the other hand, those people that you care about in the present or near-past --regardless of how you feel about them-- will suffer immensely. This is my main reason for trying to end it early. I don't need to explain this further.



*** I think just as well --albeit in a different way-- but my ability to succinctly elucidate my thoughts in conversation has been severely... damaged? I'm not sure if this is because it affects one part of the brain more than another, but I have been increasingly unable to say what I mean on-the-fly, even when I'm trying to express something insanely simple. I stutter, I slur, and I confuse one word and part of speech for another - and that's not being under the influence.

This is, as far as I can tell, a result of long-term abuse, as it only began happening after the first two years or so, then progressively became worse. I guess, looking at the situation objectively, that this could be attributed to other factors in life: stress, information overload, change of subculture, etc. -- but I'm pretty sure that it's a matter of a change in actual brain chemistry. Whether this relents after the fact has yet to be seen, but from anecdotal evidence I am concluding that the damage can be repaired in most cases.



*** I've done terribly stupid things that I would not have done otherwise. The fact of the matter, though, is that when I've done this I've almost always been under the influence of something else as well. While I think it's pretty plausible that yes, people will do very stupid things under the influence, a lot of people will not do so under the influence of merely one thing -- but will rather be led to do so under an amalgamation of chemicals. I understand, however, that each person's chemistry is different, so I really can't say how true that statement is. This isn't an objective experiment, but I would hope that's understood by now.



*** By all of my observations, people with this problem are lonely -- not in the sense that they lack friends or family, but in the sense that they feel (and often are) disconnected and alienated from this world at large. This is something I had suspected, of course, so I might just be interjecting my own expectations into the matter.. but I'm pretty sure it holds true. There is a culture that goes along with this, and you genuinely do connect with people in a way that was an impossibility beforehand.

This also tends to transcend class, the fact with which I still have a problem. The wealthiest sit with the poorest in this and drown together as a result (though the rich will last longer). I'm not eager to admit that many things transcend class, so take this as an admission of being ideologically biased before now... but don't expect me to back down from everything else.


On the other hand, some good things:


*** I have become a far more compassionate person. When you have a severe problem, you are less likely to wholly fault others for their own. This could change after the experiment genuinely ends, of course, but I honestly hope that it doesn't. I want to understand the complexities of human behavior, not judge them offhand simply because I do not exhibit the same behavior.



*** With the right level of juice, I can write a stream of consciousness that has never been paralleled before by me. This actually surprised me, because I had always considered the "altered state" argument to be a romantic mythology. So while there are, in fact, elements of truth behind it, I should also say that the inspiration is not only fleeting, but stagnating; that is, the longer I have continued this cause, the less frequent my inspiration.



*** I become LESS introspective, which from my previous experiences was counter to my intuition. Yet, it's true: I think far less about myself and far more about other people. Granted, I don't think of "the other" as frequently now as I do "others," but that seems to make me more humane rather than less.


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I have much more to say about this, more than I think I could write here... but since this is going to be reaching a different stage soon, I'll wait until then to share more. I am, after all, still experiencing things as I have for the past four years, so it wouldn't be exactly fair to blurt out everything before a conclusive end is in sight.

Thoughts on a postcard.

Well, it seems this has been moved from Humanities despite this being a discussion about a social/cultural experiemnt I've been conducting. So, anyway, if anyone has anything to ask, add or debate feel free althoguh I suspect this will fall from thr page amongst all the cough pills, weed and legal high related threads.

I give you +1 on the fact that you even tried this. I think I recall you posting a thread a while ago about this...

Im not really a heavy drinker or anything so I cant really give you any feedback...I wish you the best to beat addiction after its done.

this is some hard core quantum shit

wow i really appreciate your work. but were you drunk when you came up with the idea? i mean, as far as we know we get just this life to live- why would you ruin yourself like this on purpose?

wowza

a lot of what you said applies to drugs at large.

Yea , ive done the same thing just not intentionally. When you quit your most likely going to become a very angry person and always on edge. Im surprised you kept the drinking to mainly 4 - 5 days a week. I started off that way and ended up having to drink everyday or else I would be very pissed off.

Best of luck with quitting , because no matter what you say your body has grown dependent on the substance.

I have found the easiest way to quit drinking cold turkey is just buy a lot of weed , and get high everyday. After about a month you will have no urge to drink and can keep it at a social level.

Get a fucking life and no1 wants to read a fucking story on your shit piss life. Whats up homedogs crippin on my mc smokin mad dubs poppin some skittlas not found in macs yo dawgs.

you know.. fucking idiots like yourself is the reason totse has such a shitty rep.

this was an interesting read, keep us updated.

what do you mean when you say that you genuinly connect with people in a way that was impossible before?
I mean first you said that you felt lonely and isolated (I know what youre talking about, sorta, I drank basically every day of 10th grade, and I made lots of friends, but still felt 'lonely')
So how do you mean? You connect with other drinkers?

Well toothless joe, I don't know how well you wrote beforehand but you write quite well now.

It is an interesting experiment, and I think it took some heart and some real balls to go through with it.

Were you drinking when you wrote this?

Good luck getting off the booze man, be careful those DTs can kill a man, you should try to really take care of your health now.

Peace.

Hey Toothlessjoe.

I am curious about a few things pertaining to this:

(a) How old were you when this experiment started, and how old are you now?

(b) How old did you look then, and how old do you think you look now?

(c) Have you experienced physical malformations, such as hair loss, etc.?

(d) As a general trend have you gained or lost weight?

it's all good Native Reserve is clearly a piece of shit just based on what few posts I've read of his and that horrible attempt at trolling earlier in his thread about Coriceden (sp).. ignore him he's not even a decent troll

this thread is really going to go to shit in BLTC lol

Although I think you're an idiot for committing to this experiment for so long, in my perspective I'm glad you did, otherwise I'd have to do it myself. But then again if I can still, at least for the most part, understand the problem vicariously, then don't you think that would have been a smarter approach? I mean it would have been much easier to just grab a pen and paper and write down what you see and hear about at an AA meeting. I mean, sure, you may not know exactly what they're talking about but surely you could use an imagination to understand when someone says they feel this way or that way you can use similar past experiences to relate. If you had interviewed an alcoholic who still has enough brain cells to speak in a coherent fashion, I'm willing to bet a lot of the things they say run parallel to what you just posted.

Damn dude why the fuck would you do that?

it was an interesting read, 4 years of alcoholism on purpose just to see what would happen. I guess after a while it would just become a force of habit and self perpetuate but damn thats alot of drinking.

any symptoms of liver damage? yellow eyes or skin?

Props on actually doing it, but it was fucking retarded in my opinion. You fucked up your tolerance and your liver just for some bizarre experiment that no one outside of totse will ever read about, and hardly anyone on here will give a shit about. Worth it?

A) I started a few weeks before I turned 17 but didn't really commit as much at the time as the plan originally called for -- hardly a surprise. Strangely, as I got older being a student helped remedy that and such an idea became part of my work and personal interest/study anyway. I'll be 21 in around 6 months time.

B) Generally I was taken to be about 18-20 by people who had never met me and by most friends if I asked (reassurance for going to bars with them underage) when I started at 17. Now, I wouldn't know. Here's a photo I just took, so you tell me:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v142/toothlessjoe/recent.jpg


C) None so far. At least none that are obvious.

D) I weighed 112lbs when I first started at 17. 18-19 I weighed around 147lbs, a few months ago I was about 165lbs and now I'm about 170lbs but it fluctuates. I tend to eat well and exercise though, so my bodyfat is probably around 15% maybe a little lower. I'm at a pretty healthy weight for my size, those factors considered. My waistline increased by about 6-7 inches over this time.


Well toothless joe, I don't know how well you wrote beforehand but you write quite well now.

Were you drinking when you wrote this?

I was indeed on the sauce when I wrote this.

My writing is better now compared to when I started, but it peaked early this year and has since declined. Whether this has anything to do with the chemical affect on my brain or simply "writers block" on my part is yet to be answered. The two aren't mutually exclusive. Being a great fucking wonder at drinking doesn't make you a good writer, and being a great fucking wonder at writing doesn't make you a good drinker. But sometimes it helps on both occasions.

A quick gander at the recent picture would leave me to believe that you're in your late twenties - in my opinion you aged approximately 2x.

Being a great fucking wonder at drinking doesn't make you a good writer, and being a great fucking wonder at writing doesn't make you a good drinker. But sometimes it helps on both occasions.
I vote for you as mod of HB. :D

No but seriously, good job with this, you really took one for the team. Or maybe it was just for yourself, but it's a good read and it's understandable why you're stopping. I appreciate this a lot, as it's like an expansion of the same things I've been thinking as well, but way more developed (because you actually went through with this), all infinately more organized and nicely written and even with a picture.

You may not have teeth, Joe, but like activepsycho said, you have a heart and balls.

If it helps any, I've sent around 5000 internets your way.
http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd298/MakWasayne/5000internets.jpg


Thanks!

Anything I could say to express what I mean is belittled by this awesome statement.

I'd be interested to find out if this is because of the alcohol.

stop drinking plz bro. I'm worried about you.

stop drinking plz bro. I'm worried about you.

Once you know that you've reached the event horizon it's already far too late to change the inevitable consequence, especially since space-time is warped so much in the process--and in turn your ability to even make a choice. So if you aren't there yet, you actually might have already been there.

But I get what you mean.

yeah space-time really fucks shit up

I have been on the same boat since i turned 18. You can attempt to justify it as an experiment or you can just admit your an alcoholic.

I drink every night and have been for the past year. the year before that it was about 2 to 3 times a week. the year before that it was at least once a week if i wasnt already on some other really hard drug.

Its fucking hard to stop when its been a regular routine for such a long time. Alcohol is cheaper than most other drugs. 4 dollar pints of vodka and 50 cents beers. Lately i dont even know if its the alcohol I'm hooked on or just the state of being not sober. Every time i find some good drugs i have to take em.



My pee has been coming out brown lately, i seem to be losing my vision, My memory fails me everyday. Seems like i feel like shit all day till the moment i start drinking. Im on my 5th beer already today.

Anyway i dont know how to end this post so ill just say that alcohol in general is worst than most other drugs.

dude, you'd be better off a heroin addict than prepetually drunk. at least you'll still have some sort of ambition..

Could you elaborate please? I fail to see where you're going with that.

so at the beginning of the year (pre alcoholic) how much alcohol got you a satisfactory buzz? and what do you define as a satisfactory buzz? and at this point in time, a year later, how much do obtain that satisfactory buzz? just curious never really knew how quickly tolerance develops with alcohol.

so at the beginning of the year (pre alcoholic) how much alcohol got you a satisfactory buzz? and what do you define as a satisfactory buzz? and at this point in time, a year later, how much do obtain that satisfactory buzz? just curious never really knew how quickly tolerance develops with alcohol.


I guess a satisfactory buzz with alcohol would be the point when i feel all anxiety is gone.

When i was 18 i could get a good buzz with 3-4 drinks


last year i would say 4-5

At this point i have to drink consideribly more to lift that anxiety. I will have the alcohol in me and feel the buzz but its not satisfactory untill my problems go away and i can begin to enjoy my night.

Id say about 6-8 drinks.

I guess a satisfactory buzz with alcohol would be the point when i feel all anxiety is gone.

When i was 18 i could get a good buzz with 3-4 drinks


last year i would say 4-5

At this point i have to drink consideribly more to lift that anxiety. I will have the alcohol in me and feel the buzz but its not satisfactory untill my problems go away and i can begin to enjoy my night.

Id say about 6-8 drinks.

so you havent exactly pushed your tolerance to its extremes, so your habit is somewhat in check?

Could you elaborate please? I fail to see where you're going with that.

the heroin addict's at least chasing something, you know, that kiss from heaven or whatever ghey euphemism for getting noddy is these days. the drunks just gotta, do enough to have beer/liquor money. then what, he/she sits around drinking, the junkie gets his fix, and after noddy time has come and gone has got some shit to do before the junk clock goes off. how many artistic drunks do you think there are?

so you havent exactly pushed your tolerance to its extremes, so your habit is somewhat in check?


a sufficient buzz is far from drunk.

I remember when 8 drinks would make me puke.

Now days i can drink a liter of vodka or 20 beers and still be standing.

The amount of alcohol between a buzz and being drunk increased more than the amount to achieve the the actual buzz.

What do you mean by in check?

Well I hope you've enjoyed yourself, because from an experimental point of view your results are objectively worth very little.

It was more for my own benefit.

It was more for my own benefit.

That's my point; there's no way of reliably disentangling the long term natural changes from the long term alcohol induced changes to your writing, physiology, persona, and so on. As such there's no way of saying with much certainty whether you'd have been any better off drunk or sober over the last four years.

Hey Toothlessjoe, have you eliminated the ills of the infamous hangover yet?

Drink 6 glasses of water and sleep until 5pm.

Well it's certainly a well thought out excuse for being a drunk.

. Get out.

You, write a book. Now. I will buy it when you're done.

What would you like this book to be about? I write poems, you can read them in Vogon :p.

i think my new years resolution is making the switch for my daily drug of choice

marijuana-> alcohol

holy shit it's gonna be off the chai because guess what right now im throewed and i feel so throwed like a guy that could move mountains.. but nah i know the lonely feeling i had a 3 month alcohol period.. not anything too drastic but usually 4-5 oz of vodka at night and 4-5 oz during the day (starting at 8 AM!)

it kinda blows i know you feel like.. so resourceful and shit but i know its tough.. im drinking right now. i think i already shit.

Basically, alcohol makes me want to put on a huge T-Shirt and just make a music video about my baby girlllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll lllll

So do you think your experiment was a success?

I ask because I have done something similar, but I just call it being an alcoholic. I can relate because I've always had what seemed like an endless alcohol supply for most of my late teen years and early 20's(my family loves beer). So for the past few years I've had at least four beers a night, usually more. I have watched as my tolerance grew from no more then a 40oz to nothing less then a 6-pack.

Your observations ring true with me, maybe hitting a little too close to home. People in this situation are lonely, but isn't that the point of drinking? To disconnect from everything? I have noticed the increased compassion, and more over increased generosity. I know that sounds ass backwards to be disconnected and have increased generosity, but when your drunk your happy or at least numb, and I guess that makes you want others to be as happy as you are.

Also about becoming a better writer, its true. I noticed it in some of my essays. It feels like you can just write for hours, but if you continue to drink past your "sweet spot" your writing becomes sloppy and incoherent.

Interesting stuff, but your experiment has absolutely no validity cause you don't have any controls.

Also about becoming a better writer, its true. I noticed it in some of my essays. It feels like you can just write for hours, but if you continue to drink past your "sweet spot" your writing becomes sloppy and incoherent.

Raymond Carver was an alcoholic and a writer. I don't know if anyone's read any of his short stories, but we had to back in HS and they weren't that bad to be honest. I can't remember if my teacher told us he always wrote drunk or always sober, I can't remember. But at any rate, he drank like a fish. I think it cost him his first marriage, I can't really remember.

"Where I'm Calling From" is a bunch of short stories written by him, might be of interest.