I was talking to my girl, and we had a disagreement. Basically, I guess I have a broader definition of lying. She basically thinks lying is just answering a question falsely and knowing it's false. But I think if you know/did something your partner would really want to know but you intentionally don't tell them, that's...well, it's not lying, but it's close enough to me that I consider it that.

I don't mean cheating, because that's pretty obvious but like...as an example lets say I ask her, "What'd you do tonight?", and she says, Oh, I showered, did some hw, watched some tv. But lets say she also went to a party and drank some, which I'd probably want to know. So, she didn't technically tell me something false...just left part of the truth out.

What do you think? Ok or no? and lying or no?

She shouldn't have to tell you everything, which might be her reasoning, but when you ask about her evening you usually mean the most significant thing (The party in this case, was the most significant thing).

She didn't lie to you. She just never told you.

She never told you because she doesn't want you to know she went; inferred from that being the most significant event that evening, if she didn't mind then it would have come up in conversation becasue people don't suddenly forget the events of the last 24 hours. Unless of course she has amnesia or something.

Now why is that? Was she afraid you were going to give her shit? Are you possesive? Was it a genuine mistake? Is she just a weirdo?

This is how I look at it...

If YOU would want to know, it's probably a good thing that you tell your partner.

If my girlfriend doesn't tell me how long her shower was, I don't care. I don't want to know, because I don't care, therefore, I can probably assume that she doesn't want to know how long MY shower was, so I don't mention it.


Now, if she doesn't tell me who she went with to a party...I care. She'd want to know who I went with, so I would expect her to tell me who she went with.


If that makes sense...

Although not technically lying, it's still wrong if the only reason she doesn't tell you something is because she knows you wouldn't approve. That's different than just not telling you everything she does during the course of the day.

People are so dishonest. And knowing that no girls I've ever met conform to my standards of honesty (not when it suits you, but rather 100% of the time) makes me want to give up on relationships.

Lying through omission is JUST as bad as telling a straight up lie! Leaving out small, yet significant details.

An example of what happened with my ex: While I was having sex with her, she gets like 9 text messages. When we're lying there later I'm like "Who messaged?" - "Anna" - "cool.." - turns out Anna did message...once, the other 8 messages were from a dude who's been flirting with her nonstop. She told the truth, but it was no better than a lie.

^ Agreed.

Yeah this is an argument I have had several times before with dumb bitches. I have even broken up with a bitch because she decided that "not telling" isnt the same as "lying". Its really all up to what you think. If you think that not telling is alright, then forget about it. I personally believe lying is the same exact thing as not telling, whereas not telling must contain some element of wrongdoing.

You think not telling is the same as not lying, don't you.

Then I guess not feeling is the same as not crying, don't you?

*Killer riff*

White stripes.

she did not lie to you. she just didn't tell you everything. because you didn't ask.

Haha, so unless I ask her if she has done every single possible action in the universe, she's in the clear? My point is, if she's not telling me something that she KNOWS I'd want to know, I'm not cool with it.

agreed.
brilliance. ha.

and regardless of the object in question here which is honesty, it is all about communication. if you haven't built that from the start than what you don't know shouldn't bother you, because obviously there wasn't any establishment on how you two expect to communicate with one another.
if you want to know about every little detail than you basically have to tell her that.

if you want to know about every little detail than you basically have to tell her that.

We're not talking about 'every little detail', it's the small yet significant ones that matter. You're a prime example of 'when it suits you'.

its still lying

fuck that shit
dont take it from no bitch

i suggest murder/suicide

I'm gonna go ahead and bottom-line this.

Lying is not the same as not telling.
Dishonesty does not always have to be lying.
You don't necessarily seem to be implying that lying is the correct term for when someone omits events or details. Nevertheless, by definition this is not the case: lying is a deliberate deviation from the truth[+] (http://wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?o2=&o0=1&o7=&o5=&o1=1&o6=&o4=&o3=&s=lying&i=0&h=00000000#c).

I would agree with you, however, that it is just as dishonest as lying given the circumstances and thus is no better.

The fact remains that it is NOT the same thing as lying.

The primary reason I posted in this thread was because I have a big problem when people try to re-define words to fit their own personal meanins as it would appear a few posters in here have tried. You can see my thread in B&M about this.

The primary reason I posted in this thread was because I have a big problem when people try to re-define words to fit their own personal meanins as it would appear a few posters in here have tried. You can see my thread in B&M about this.

Some people speak literally, others speak figuratively.

We're not talking about 'every little detail', it's the small yet significant ones that matter. You're a prime example of 'when it suits you'.

i just think that people tend to keep things hidden because we are too afraid of the outcome. to afraid of judgment. we are fucking afraid of everything, and that is why she kept shit away...

I don't understand why people don't just tell the whole truth anyway

Me and my girlfriend both has the same values when it comes to this, and she knows that I'd get upset if, for example; she had got the bus into town then met her friend, but there was a 2 hour gap between when she got the bus and met her friend. That would seem suspicious, what did she do in those 2 hours? If I did that she would want to know. She could flat out lie and say she sat on a bench waiting for her friend, but I'd give her more credit if she told the truth which I might not like and said she bumped into another friend (male possibly) and had abit chat.

That's why we tell thewhole truth all the time.
Better to get upset over the truth than lie and the truth coming out later.



So, if your girl didn't tell you she went to this party then you have problem, and she isn't worth the hassle. Simple as.

Me and my girlfriend both has the same values when it comes to this, and she knows that I'd get upset if, for example; she had got the bus into town then met her friend, but there was a 2 hour gap between when she got the bus and met her friend. That would seem suspicious, what did she do in those 2 hours?

What the fuck are you, her parole officer?

What the fuck are you, her parole officer?

Better to know everything than being a doormat, son.

You seem to of not passed the bit where I said we have the same values, I don't mind and neither does she. It's how it works.
If you are in a serious relationship why would you keep things from your significant other?

I'm gonna go ahead and bottom-line this.

Lying is not the same as not telling.
Dishonesty does not always have to be lying.
You don't necessarily seem to be implying that lying is the correct term for when someone omits events or details. Nevertheless, by definition this is not the case: lying is a deliberate deviation from the truth[+] (http://wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?o2=&o0=1&o7=&o5=&o1=1&o6=&o4=&o3=&s=lying&i=0&h=00000000#c).

I would agree with you, however, that it is just as dishonest as lying given the circumstances and thus is no better.

The fact remains that it is NOT the same thing as lying.


This is why we have "half-truths" and "whole lies." There is definitely a difference between sins of commission and sins of omission.

Here's a FUN read about sin: http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/14004b.htm

But in any case, dishonesty is bullshit. If your girl gets 1 text from Anna and 8 from Jose while you're fucking, but only tells you Anna texted her, that's bullshit.

The whole point of trust is that you shouldn't have to question your partner. That's why mr. parole officer above is behaving in a ridiculous manner. If your girl thinks it's ok to flirt behind your back, she'll probably find it ok to fuck behind your back. Keeping tabs on a girl won't solve this. If there's no honest communication, you really don't have a relationship anyway. It's just people telling each other half the story, hoping the other will never find out the details.

This is why we have "half-truths" and "whole lies." There is definitely a difference between sins of commission and sins of omission.

Here's a FUN read about sin: http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/14004b.htm

But in any case, dishonesty is bullshit. If your girl gets 1 text from Anna and 8 from Jose while you're fucking, but only tells you Anna texted her, that's bullshit.

The whole point of trust is that you shouldn't have to question your partner. That's why mr. parole officer above is behaving in a ridiculous manner. If your girl thinks it's ok to flirt behind your back, she'll probably find it ok to fuck behind your back. Keeping tabs on a girl won't solve this. If there's no honest communication, you really don't have a relationship anyway. It's just people telling each other half the story, hoping the other will never find out the details.

Yah, that's pretty much what I said you dumb fuck.
What I said was an example, it wouldn't happen because she would tell me anyway. An if she had 2 hours to waste she'd be with me.

Better to know everything than being a doormat, son.

You seem to of not passed the bit where I said we have the same values, I don't mind and neither does she. It's how it works.
If you are in a serious relationship why would you keep things from your significant other?

The same sense of insecurity? Seriously, why do you want to know every single thing she does? You two obviously don't trust each other if you're constantly interrogating each other for every possible detail.

There's a difference between interrogation and being a doormat. Personally, I don't get into relationships with girls I don't trust. If I trust a girl, there's no reason to be all suspicious. You obviously don't trust your girlfriend.

The same sense of insecurity? Seriously, why do you want to know every single thing she does? You two obviously don't trust each other if you're constantly interrogating each other for every possible detail.

There's a difference between interrogation and being a doormat. Personally, I don't get into relationships with girls I don't trust. If I trust a girl, there's no reason to be all suspicious. You obviously don't trust your girlfriend.

Your not getting what I say, maybe google translate doesn't work or something.

If she didn't tell me the whole truth, we have a problem
If I don't her the whole truth, we have a problem.

We don't interrogate each other, there is no need to ask question upon question about the small details because we tell each other the whole truth.


What I'm saying is that we trust each other more than the word trust could convey. It's more than trust, it a lack of need for trust.

Telling the truth because their is no need to lie > trust.

What the fuck are you, her parole officer?

Dude...if he asked her that question it's not that fucking hard for her to just go "Oh I went in to town and got pizza with Johnny while I waited for Jane". Finding out later on would make you wonder why she didn't just tell you.

i just think that people tend to keep things hidden because we are too afraid of the outcome. to afraid of judgment. we are fucking afraid of everything, and that is why she kept shit away...

Some one who's afraid of judgment would seem weak in my eyes. Afraid of everything?

God. I answer bluntly and truthfully and I can't count the number of times it's fucked me over. But at the same time it gains me respect with those that matter.

I don't know, it may be stupid to do this, but it's the way I'd prefer to live my life because it always seems to work out in the end.

Some one who's afraid of judgment would seem weak in my eyes. Afraid of everything?

God. I answer bluntly and truthfully and I can't count the number of times it's fucked me over. But at the same time it gains me respect with those that matter.

I don't know, it may be stupid to do this, but it's the way I'd prefer to live my life because it always seems to work out in the end.

yes, afraid of everything. every situation we come across we analyze and the first thing we feel is fear. and although you answer everything 'bluntly and truthfully' you have to admit that before every answer you gave, you were a little afraid of an outcome...even for a second. im just talking plain fact, and not how we should our lives.

its not lying as many people interpret lying as...but it is lying by definition. if lying isn't telling the truth

but then she isn't telling the truth or a lie. she is telling neither. if it is something that is obviously something that the other person needs to know or that it its something that you know they would want to know then who knows

you know?

but seriously i don't think the argument is what is lying and what isn't telling the argument is why doesn't she feel she needs to tell you something that you feel she should.

i think i don't make sense anymore:(