totse.com | opiate a/b to remove apap

penguinjam · #1 2008-11-26, 07:47

alright so this was posted in bltc, but kind of hidden behind a cwe thread, so I figured I'd post it here to see if I could get some worthwhile responses. basically, I'm looking for someone to confirm/double check this. here were my posts.

Quote:

I know this is an old thread, but I may have found something to help you snort it. It 'may' be possible to do an a/b using naoh as your base by -

dissolve said pills in water

base with naoh - now before I thought basing would result in freebasing both apap and hydro/other opiate. but, if using naoh, apparently the apap reacts with the naoh to form water soluble sodium acetaminophen oxide, which is insoluble in your nonpolar solvent. I think I read somewhere that this compound was a purpleish-brown color. typically freebase opiates are somewhat soluble in water, but more soluble in the nonpolar.

then you would wash with your nonpolar.

separate and save nonpolar layer.

evaporate the nonpolar.(w/o heat)

add to water

and add hcl (or other acid)

and then evaporate (w/o heat) to get your hydro salt.

thread was here -

http://www.totse.com/community/showthread.php?t=2174224

but using ether / methanol is unnecessary and using hardware store grade methanol will result in goo after evap. ( the goo being already present in the methanol). apparently, if you distill your methanol you will be left with an inch or two of goo at the bottom the the container.

so anybody wanna confirm this tek?

Quote:

so I didn't have any opiates to try this on, but I did try reacting naoh with acetaminophen to see if it would change color, and it did indeed turn purple, so if I can assume this is insoluble in a nonpolar, then I can assume this works

.

Quote:

so let's say we are using 10 10/500 hydro pills
we have 100mg hydro and 5 grams apap
the mol. weight of naoh is 39.9971 g/mol, and the mol. weight of apap is 151.169 g/mol
now I'm not sure on this, but assuming one molecule naoh reacts with one molecule apap to produce sodium acetaminophen oxide (can anyone confirm that?) then you would need 39.9971 g naoh for every 151.169 g apap.

so then for 5g apap you would need 1.3229 g naoh.
now on top of that you would need to basify the water untill the hydro separates from the hcl. again, not sure what ph is required for that, but you could add incrementally, with the nonpolar layer added, and any hydro that has freebase will go over to the np layer. so you could add, say 2g naoh, shake, settle, and add 1g more, shake, settle, and so one. once the hydro transferres over, it won't be touched by the naoh, so overbasification shouldn't be a problem if the naoh is added incrementally.

now you would separate the nonpolar, and wash it again with fresh nonpolar, and combine both washes.

then you would evap the nonpolar (w/o heat), and add your freebase hydro to water.

now you need to acidify your water with hcl. the mol. weight of hcl is 36.46 g/mol, and the mol. weight of hydro is 299.368 g/mol. you have 100mg hydro, or .1g. so with .1g hydro, you would need .012g hcl. however, I think a certain ph is needed for the hcl to bond to the hydro, and I'm not sure what that is. but assuming you are using 33.333% hcl, than .036mL would be needed? that doesn't seem right, so you would probably need a min. ph, anyone know what that is?

an alternative to titrating would be gassing, and although it would be more work, exact measurements wouldn't be needed. basically you'd take a milk jug/something similar, and put a layer of calcium chloride on the bottom. then you would fix an airtight tube on the top and pour your hcl into into it, and then stick the end of the tube into the bottom of your unevaporated nonpolar solvent containing your freebase hydro. the hcl gas would bubble up, and (theoretically) your hydro hcl should precipitate out. then you would just filter, dry out, and pronto! pure hydrocodone hcl.

so anybody want to doublecheck this?

thread was here

http://www.totse.com/community/showthread.php?t=2174215

Von Bass · #2 2008-11-26, 17:50

It looks legit, but I would recommend you do a CWE, and then a/b the resultant solution, it'll save a lot of bollocks filtering solvents with the APAP. Non polar of choice for opiates appears to be chloroform; its mentioned in the homebake heroin procedure, and be careful about basifying with NaOH; it tends to rape the shit out of delicate organic molecules, fine generally adding a solution of NaOH, or using something like ammonia, but just don't go throwing the calculated quantity of NaOH in there.

If you do this, please do tell us about it, I for one would be interested in your experiences, especially any problems encountered.

Adhesive Tape · #3 2008-11-26, 22:54

Someone try this, my Vicoden source fell through.

penguinjam · #4 2008-11-27, 07:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Von Bass View Post

It looks legit, but I would recommend you do a CWE, and then a/b the resultant solution, it'll save a lot of bollocks filtering solvents with the APAP. Non polar of choice for opiates appears to be chloroform; its mentioned in the homebake heroin procedure, and be careful about basifying with NaOH; it tends to rape the shit out of delicate organic molecules, fine generally adding a solution of NaOH, or using something like ammonia, but just don't go throwing the calculated quantity of NaOH in there.

If you do this, please do tell us about it, I for one would be interested in your experiences, especially any problems encountered.

yeah, I would have used a solution of naoh with the calculated quantity dissolved. but with another base the apap would follow the opiate into the nonpolar as it wouldn't react, so... Could I safely assume that once the opiate transfers over to the np it is safe from the naoh? also, following the logic of this, you wouldn't be filtering apap as it would stay behind in the water...
and chloroform isn't exactly otc, I was thinking of using toluene or xylene if I did this. unfortunently, I don't think I'll be having anything to try this on anytime soon

...

also, I'd appreciate it if someone could double check my stoich

.

EDIT: do you mean using the calculated quantity of naoh, let react with the apap, and then further base with ammonia as necessary until desired ph is reached?

gigster · #5 2008-11-27, 09:23

tylenol is a bitch swim would get rid of it 1st . Why not follow a write up that has done these. Swiy cant be the 1st with this matrix?

penguinjam · #6 2008-11-27, 21:50

well, this would be getting rid of it fairly easily.

also, I could make my own write-up

.

gigster · #7 2008-11-28, 09:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by penguinjam View Post

well, this would be getting rid of it fairly easily.

also, I could make my own write-up

.

OK well do it dont just talk about it. And report back your findings including of course the amount ya get back.

penguinjam · #8 2008-12-02, 00:39

I will, but I don't have anything right now...

as soon as I get some (might be a while) I'll be sure to write a pictorial with yield and such ect...

that is, of course, if nobody beats me to it.

JoePedo · #9 2008-12-02, 11:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by penguinjam View Post

chloroform isn't exactly otc,

Lies. Monohalomethane and trihalomethane are some of the easiest to come up with. It's DCM that tends to take cleaning, and 4CM that takes work.

Bleach plus ammon- err, I mean, acetone - ftw.

penguinjam · #10 2008-12-02, 22:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoePedo View Post

Lies. Monohalomethane and trihalomethane are some of the easiest to come up with. It's DCM that tends to take cleaning, and 4CM that takes work.

Bleach plus ammon- err, I mean, acetone - ftw.

could you use liquid bleach, or would it have to be chlorine bleach powder (calcium hypochlorite)?

and how would you clean it?

apparently it has to be removed from the attendant acetate salts by distillation?

and wouldn't chloroacetone and dichloroacetone be synthed as well?

so how practical would that be?

any advantages to it over toluene/xylene?

by otc though I meant you can't just walk into your local hardware store and buy it, but....

and any comments on the a/b /my stoich though?

(like double checking it

)

edit: wait a sec, it reacts with naoh to form dichlorocarbene. so wouldn't that fuck up the a/b? or only in the presence of a catalyst?

thanks