Hello...I started using lorazepams regularly (legally prescribed) about a year ago due to terrible anxiety/panic attacks. From there I went to 1mg/Xanax XR per day. Got that upgraded to 1.5mg/day instants. At that dose my anxiety was finally under control. I never had to increase my dose, in fact sometimes I would voluntarily decrease it. Months later I thought I didn't need it anymore and I was tired of NEEDING it, so I tried to taper. Everyone but doctors seems to know you can't taper off xanax. I had my psyc switch me to klonopin, which I got worked back up to 1.5/day. The benefits of switching are great in that I don't wake up shaking and craving a xanax and I can forget to take a dose and be OK. You miss one dose of xanax and you can't function...want to die...too short acting. Even the XR's are not much more forgiving.

During my time on xanax, I was a heroin/oxycontin addict so I had no reason to abuse it because I was already high enough. I've been off opiates 100% for six months now (except suboxone...afraid of relapse) and all of the sudden I love benzos WAY too much. I can get 1mg IR xanax virtually anytime from a friend, hell he practically gives me a couple everytime we hang out for the hell of it. He also gets the same klonopins that I do. Keep in mind I already get 90/month anyway...

I've also started to love uppers (adderall, dex, ritalin) the past couple months. The problem is I end up taking around 8 klonopins/xanax/whatever everytime I take uppers because I am sensitive to the side effects (nervous, can't sleep/eat).

Lately I have been taking so many it's just insane! I just love the calming feeling so much, after years and years of dealing with anxiety. I am also going through a TERRIBLE time right now.... so overwhelmed and stressed. I'm stopping the uppers because they make me take too many downers.

Usually by the end of the month I'm back down to 3 or 4 k-pins a day, which almost does the trick. The problem with klonopin is that when I do get panic attacks, those damn things take a good hour at least to feel! It is NOT a good breakthrough anxiety drug.

I've tried diazepam several times and it is by far my favorite of them all. It possesses the quick acting effects of xanax, and the long acting effects of klonopin, even longer! It makes me feel GREAT all day, and on LOWER DOSES! Supposedly, .5mg clonazepam=10 mg diazepam, but I feel 3 valium 10's MUCH more than 3 Klonopin .5's. I think it has something to do with valium's insane half life and sedating properties...not sure. I just think I would do better on 30mg/valium rather than 1.5mg klonopin since it last longer, provides relief of panic attacks, and to be honest, I don't feel the need to take more all day! I can dose ONCE daily!

Valium is an old school med that is hard to get prescribed to these days. I've only ever known 3 people who got them. I think doctors are afraid of high numbers, regardless of actual potency, due to fear of loosing their licenses. For example, 1.5mg does sound like less than 30mg. I've tried to get valium from 2 different doctors, and they both refused. I recently switched klonopin doc's again, and he gladly gave it to me. I want him to switch me to valium.

Anyone out there have experience getting switched to valium? I really think it would positively influence my life. Any suggestions of what to say to my doctor?

Also, has anyone tried those "orally disintegrating" Klonopin wafers? Do they kick in any faster? Any help would be great.

get the IM amps of vallium.
They're awesome

Not practicing a constant regimen of suboxone/benzos/amphetamines will do a hell of a lot more to hold off your anxiety than getting another script of something that's problematic for you, a former heroin addict and admitted benzo fiend.

I've been down benzo road, and across it, and back and forth a few more times than I would've liked to, and please believe me when I tell you that I'm advising you against continuing with the shit not to be some condescending self-righteous asshole but because I've been in those same damn shoes you're wearing right now and I more or less followed through on the plans you're contemplating and can tell you that there's nothing down that path worth pursuing.

I'm not completely anti-benzo at all, God knows-- I'm not against any medicine, or drug, assuming it's used in a responsible manner. But hey, let's face it...do you think you're someone who can handle benzodiazepines responsibly? Because you don't sound like it, to me, and what I'm listening to/reading in your post is roughly the mirror image of myself 2 years prior to a 8 mg/day Klonopin habit with all the wonderful bonuses of detox/rehab/jail along the way.

But I can't tell you how to live your life or manage your symptoms or determine how bad your anxiety is or how good your self-control so take it with a grain of salt.

Suboxone saved my life and very I rarely abuse it and I am definitely done with the uppers. They make me MOW pills like there's no tommorow. It's just that I've tried almost every anxiety med that there is and NOTHING works for me, except the benzos...and Klonopin has never quite done it for me. It sucks at killing panic attacks and it just seems to have weaker anxiolic properties than xanax did...Valium just always works perfectly. Kpins are a good preventive drug, but a terrible 'as needed' drug. I've really been trying to manage my stress other ways, but it's really hard. My life is unbelievably fucked right now.

Well you're right, Klonopin is much less effective as a PRN/anxiety agent than Xanax is. In fact, I really don't think there is a better benzo on the market for rapid relief of spontaneous panic than Xanax. Klonopin is longer-acting, obviously, and therefore, in my experience, much more effective as a treatment for something like Generalized Anxiety Disorder where the symptoms are not dependent on external variables such as they are in Panic Disorder or even Social Anxiety disorder.

You say that Valium works better than Klonopin, but those two are a lot more similar than either of them and Xanax are. In fact, Valium is even longer acting than Klonopin is, with, in my experience, an even poorer effect on sudden onsets of anxiety. Different people process different benzos differently, of course, but then again, what kind of anxiety do you have, exactly? Is it a constant, daily issue, or more centered around panic attacks? Do you notice triggers with your anxiety? Variables that make it worse?

omg you mixed a benzo with amphetamines? i mixed a shit load lorazepam and adderall one time, and it was by far the worst combo ever. a shitty downer and a shitty upper together(both those drugs suck), fuck that.

Amphetamines and benzos have a nice synergy if you keep the doses of each one around the therapeutic range. Not that it's something good to do all the time or anything. There are a good amount of people on amphetamine therapy who are actually prescribed low-dose benzos to ward off "speedy" side-effects, though.

Well I got my Klon dose up to 2 mg/day...which seems to be helping. I still don't understand why I can't find a doctor that will prescribe valium. When I take Valium, it kicks in about 15-30 minutes and lasts for OVER a day. When I take Klonopin it takes a good 1-2 hours to kick in and lasts ALMOST a day...so I see no reason for it's existence, except that it's more potent, so for instance 2mg/kpin sounds lower than 40mg/val when in reality it's the same thing...makes the doc feel safer. I have a stash of illegally obtained 1mg xanax that I self medicate with when I need them...because kpins cannot kill panic attacks and doctors don't seem to understand that. Klonopin to me is just lame valium.

I dont understand why you are having a problem getting perscribed valium, its one of the most perscribed drugs in the world and is an Essential on the WHO's list of medications. Valium was one of the first benzos ever perscribed to me and still to this day I dont like it at all; Valium for me was only effective when I tried to taper my dose for a little bit or when I had a seizure( first time). It's anxiolytic properties are very weak compared to most other benzos, along with its sedative effects. IMO klonopin is a much better benzo for general anxiety and is much more potent, along with a half life that pretty much rivals Valiums depending on the individual. Also Klonopin is not meant to stop panic attacks, thats why there are such things as xanax and ativan, which have a much faster onset and a much shorter half life and are designed to stop a panic attack. [i]You seem not to like klonopin because your doctors arent perscribing it for the right reasons; regardless, the only benefit I could see valium has is a faster onset, but if you are truly suffering from panic attacks you shouldnt be relying on valium to stop them. To me Valium is just weak klonopin and only exists because of it's name, along with its plentiful (and cheap) supply. Dose to dose, I'd take Ativan over Valium anyday

But for the record, I do take (legally) 40mgs of valium each night to attempt to fall asleep, but IMO all it really does is just potent all the other crap I have to take.

Follows POC's advice and stop using benzos before its too late, there a 'band aid' that will fuck over your life severly. You just sound like you a short term benzo regimen and some counseling; just because your have alot of shit on your plate doesnt meant you should be medicating yourself with xanax, thats just asking for trouble man

it is not something you are supposed to like. It is something that should control your anxiety symptoms not make you feel ood all day. In fact you shouldnt even feel the valium you should just not feel anxiety. That is probably why gyour doc wont prescribe because you are using it recreationally more than for anxiety.

Valium is VERy commonly prescribed so I do not know what you are talking about with that. They probably wont prescribe it because it is so commonly abused.

POC: You're a cool motherfucker.

I'm...flattered?

if youre having trouble with kpins not kickign in fast enough - have you considered (forgive me if this is a noob suggestion, the script drug world is alien to me) carrying a few powdered kpins in gelcaps or rizlas around with you? should kick in faster if you need the sedative/anti-anxiety effect in a hurry.

A better idea actually is to use sublingual administration. When I was prescribed 2 mg Klonopins, I probably took about 75% of them sublingually and it always worked well for me. Sliding the power under your tongue is ideal, of course, but if you're someone like me who enjoys the taste of Klonopin, you can shove the whole intact pill under there and allow the sugary goodness to fill your palette while you wait for it to dissolve.

They make Klonopin wafers, too, similar to Niravam (Xanax wafers), and those are specifically designed to be used sublingually and melt under the tongue with ease. They're definitely pricier than regular pills, though, because as far as I know there aren't any generics. Also hard to find, I'd wager, though I can't attest to that for sure from experience because I never had a prescription for the wafers myself.

Hmm...seems like the general consensus is that klonopin is more potent than diazepam? Maybe that's true, as I don't know if I've ever used valium while NOT on klonopin...I suppose I should try to get a script of xanax along with the pins incase I need to kill a panic attack? I take the kpin in the morning and I'm okay until later in the day, when I start getting panic attacks. Valium just seemed to last longer and feel heavier, that's why I prefer it. I'm getting tired of these drugs...they used to work great but now they are just trouble.

Wow, that really brought back memories

You still don't get it, do you?

? Well, then what would you recommend? Fact of the matter is that klonopin alone is not doing it for me. It is somewhat effective, but about 3 times a week I still get a panic attack, and the klonopin takes WAY too long to kill it. It is great in that it is long acting and potent, but sometimes it just is NOT enough. You say that xanax is the most effective 'as needed' drug for panic attacks on the market, and I've been prescribed to it in the past and agree with you completely. So what do you recommend?

I've tried several SSRI's and awful meds like wellbutrin and none helped. All I got out of the other meds was erectile dysfunction, night sweats, and more anxiety...

COUNSELING, THERAPY, ETC..

Pills are not the cure all for everything thats the matter with you, you've already stated that your getting tired with these meds so you decide to try to get a script for xanax? I hope you look at these posts years from now, after your throughly addicted and in a fucking hell hole and think "Why the fuck didnt I listen to these guys, they actually knew what they where talking about"?

Dig your own grave dude, your obviously not getting what we are saying

Look, ive had some really fucked up anxiety in the past, but thats

what it is. in the past. The only way to truly get over the anxiety is

to face it head on, i cant really tell you how to go from there, because

you might be anxious for different reasons than i was..but i know

what your going through. For a 3 week period last year, it was so

bad i couldnt go to any classes, and contemplated shooting myself in

the foot (literally), just to buy a few more weeks away from being in

an enclosed classroom environment...if i had had access to benzo's

its very likely id have a hell of an addiction right now...thank god i

didnt get any sources for em till after my problems subsided. The

thing that did it for me was taking 0.5 mg of ativan, going to class

and realizing that its all in my head, and for some reason i kept that

mindset and slowly, i was freed from my mental hell. Ive been on 50

mg of sertraline a day since, and that keeps anxiety at bay, as well

as puts me in a damn positive mood.. so OP: i know its frowned upon

in this forum, but consider anti-depressants, whaddya have to lose?