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| Backyard Ballistics This forum is dedicated to the safe teaching and responsible handling of high and low explosives. You will not find any information on how to make "bombs" or any such device(s) . Backyard ballistics will teach you the science and the art of pyrotechnics and how to manufacture and use explosives/pyrotechnics safely and responsibly. Backyard ballistics is also a haven for rocketry and pneumatic cannons. All information contained within this forum is for educational purposes ONLY. Totse does not accept responsiblity for any incident involving the use of the information contained within this forum. |
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# 1
2008-11-21, 22:46
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Regular
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like cdawg-i live in moderator
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Contest: Win absolutely nothing!
It's sorta like a puzzle!
I spent way too much time bored today, and spent way too much time on wikipedia. So I'll list the precursors and you tell me which explosive you can make out of it. If anyone else has any similar puzzles I'd love to have something to do in my spare time. You have access to dH2O, any equipment you desire, and there may be multiple required reactions.
Uber-simple examples1:
aluminum cans
old boat anchor.
Kewl example 2:
fruit drink concentrate
gasoline
Actual example 2:
Nail polish remover
antiseptic ointment
pool chlorinator
So, Puzzle 1:
Car battery
A selection of curing salts
car airbag.
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# 2
2008-11-21, 23:09
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Regular
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www.fortress-forever.com
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Re: Contest: Win absolutely nothing!
wtf is this shit
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# 3
2008-11-22, 01:42
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Regular
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8th layer of hell
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Re: Contest: Win absolutely nothing!
id lose but if you actually want people to do it id throw in some nice chemicals or at least some money
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# 4
2008-11-22, 02:45
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Regular
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(MSG for PGP pub key) Texas
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Re: Contest: Win absolutely nothing!
Curing salts for meats... are only a small percent nitrite... Like I wouldn't even consider it a source. So I'm not quite sure where your trying to go with that.
And if you already the azide from the airbag...
The only real problem with making lead azide from the lead and the azide... is you need a soluble lead salt, preferably free from acid unless you like to mess with HN3 fumes... You could completely use up the battery and practically boil the electrolyte with the lead and lead dioxide electrodes to try to make a neutral lead sulfate solution... then possibly react it with sodium azide solution... BUT IIRC lead azide is pretty fucking dangerous. When letting it crystalize out you have to be sure the crystals don't get bigger than a certain size or they nearly spontaneously detonate IN the liquid. Or so I vaguely remember. You need to add dextrin and make dextrinated lead azide.. IIRC.
Heres one:
(Theres several different explosives that can be made from these starting materials, and MANY MANY more that can be made using reactants made from the things here and reacted with unlisted useful organic chemicals... though this doesn't really follow the same conventions your puzzles do...)
bleach
ammonia (or urea)
sulfuric acid
sodium hydroxide
EDTA/metal ion scavenger
lead
potassium nitrate
isopropyl alcohol
methanol
Last edited by asilentbob; 2008-11-22 at 03:05.
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# 5
2008-11-22, 07:55
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Regular
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like cdawg-i live in moderator
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Re: Contest: Win absolutely nothing!
Quote:
Originally Posted by asilentbob
Curing salts for meats... are only a small percent nitrite... Like I wouldn't even consider it a source. So I'm not quite sure where your trying to go with that.
And if you already the azide from the airbag...
The only real problem with making lead azide from the lead and the azide... is you need a soluble lead salt, preferably free from acid unless you like to mess with HN3 fumes... You could completely use up the battery and practically boil the electrolyte with the lead and lead dioxide electrodes to try to make a neutral lead sulfate solution... then possibly react it with sodium azide solution... BUT IIRC lead azide is pretty fucking dangerous. When letting it crystalize out you have to be sure the crystals don't get bigger than a certain size or they nearly spontaneously detonate IN the liquid. Or so I vaguely remember. You need to add dextrin and make dextrinated lead azide.. IIRC.
Heres one:
(Theres several different explosives that can be made from these starting materials, and MANY MANY more that can be made using reactants made from the things here and reacted with unlisted useful organic chemicals... though this doesn't really follow the same conventions your puzzles do...)
bleach
ammonia (or urea)
sulfuric acid
sodium hydroxide
EDTA/metal ion scavenger
lead
potassium nitrate
isopropyl alcohol
methanol
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You can react the nitrates in the curing salts with the sulfuric acid and yeah. A very poor yield of Lead Azide! Winner! I don't think they will spontaneously det, but they will shock-detonate while still in water, and dextrin is a very good idea. I'll work on yours and see what I can come up with.
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# 6
2008-11-22, 19:18
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Regular
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(MSG for PGP pub key) Texas
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Re: Contest: Win absolutely nothing!
Well you should get a nearly theoretical yield based on the amount of azide recovered. I see what you meant by making lead nitrate as its much more soluble, but yeah you would need a good nitrate source for making the nitric acid. Curing salts is nitrite and not much of it.
This is isn't really pyro, but it is chem... sorta...
bleach
acetone
potassium hydroxide
Theres 2 reactions that im thinking of here the end product being somewhat referenced as a knock out drug.
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# 7
2008-11-22, 21:56
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Regular
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like cdawg-i live in moderator
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Re: Contest: Win absolutely nothing!
Quote:
Originally Posted by asilentbob
Well you should get a nearly theoretical yield based on the amount of azide recovered. I see what you meant by making lead nitrate as its much more soluble, but yeah you would need a good nitrate source for making the nitric acid. Curing salts is nitrite and not much of it.
This is isn't really pyro, but it is chem... sorta...
bleach
acetone
potassium hydroxide
Theres 2 reactions that im thinking of here the end product being somewhat referenced as a knock out drug.
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Curing salts can be either(or both), depending on which you buy.
NaClO + KOH + CH3COCH3.... haloform reaction!
CH3-CO-CH3 + CLO- = CH3-CO-CCl3+OH- = CH3-CO-OH + CCl3 = CH3-CO-O- + CHCl3 = Chloroform (and potassium acetate and sodium hydroxide or something.)
I'll try the first on in a bit, but this one jumped out at me.
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# 8
2008-11-23, 07:43
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Regular
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(MSG for PGP pub key) Texas
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Re: Contest: Win absolutely nothing!
The haloform rxn is the first using the acetone and hypochlorite solution. The KOH is meant for the 2nd reaction really. But yeah pretty much correct thus far. Half there.
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# 9
2008-11-27, 05:45
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Regular
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like cdawg-i live in moderator
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Re: Contest: Win absolutely nothing!
Quote:
Originally Posted by asilentbob
Heres one:
(Theres several different explosives that can be made from these starting materials, and MANY MANY more that can be made using reactants made from the things here and reacted with unlisted useful organic chemicals... though this doesn't really follow the same conventions your puzzles do...)
bleach
ammonia (or urea)
sulfuric acid
sodium hydroxide
EDTA/metal ion scavenger
lead
potassium nitrate
isopropyl alcohol
methanol
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I tried to stick to only the things on the list to narrow it down a bit.
Ammonium Nitrate
H2S04+KNO3->KHSO4+HNO3
HNO3+NH4->NH4NO3
RDX
methanol + oxygen (catalyzed) => formaldehyde
formaldehyde+ammonia => hexamine
hexamine + nitric acid => RDX
PETN
methanol + oxygen (catalyzed) => formaldehyde
ethanol (catalyzed (dichromate+sulfuric)) => acetaldehyde
extract by adding NH3 for ammonia-aldehyde, drying, and then reverse with sulfuric
acetaldehyde and formaldehyde +KOH =>pentaerythritol
Nitric+sulfuric+pentaerythritol =>petn
lead fulminate
lead+nitric acid -> Pb(NO3)2 (aq) ?
lead nitrate + ethanol -> lead fulminate (s)
Not sure what to do with the EDTA.
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# 10
2008-11-28, 00:16
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Regular
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(MSG for PGP pub key) Texas
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Re: Contest: Win absolutely nothing!
Actually didn't really think about that stuff, good job.
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#11
2008-11-29, 10:14 |
Tax 
Regular
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Re: Contest: Win absolutely nothing!
lead fulminate
lead+nitric acid -> Pb(NO3)2 (aq) ?
lead nitrate + ethanol -> lead fulminate (s)
Not sure what to do with the EDTA.
Lead fulminate?, nup sorry wont happen.
I assume the EDTA was to be used in the production of hydrazine from bleach/ammonia and subsequently lead azide.
Bleach + ammonia + EDTA + H2SO4 --> hydrazine
KNO3 + lead --> KNO2
h2SO4 + KNO3 --> HNO3
HNO3 + Pb --> Pb(NO3)2
KNO2 + H2SO4 + Isopropanol --> Isopropyl nitrite
Isopropyl nitrite + Hydrazine --> HN3
HN3 + NaOH --> NaN3
NaN3 + Pb(NO3)2 --> Pb(N3)2
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#12
2008-11-29, 10:24 |
Tax
Regular
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Re: Contest: Win absolutely nothing!
My turn.
Bleach
Ammonia
Sugar
H2SO4
KNO3
Glycerol
Urea
Have to use everything :P
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#13
2008-11-29, 14:31 |
Green Tea is Good
Regular
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Re: Contest: Win absolutely nothing!
Kewl example 2:
fruit drink concentrate
gasoline
lulz NAP@LM
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#14
2008-12-07, 06:41 |
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Re: Contest: Win absolutely nothing!
curing salt into the battery?
put in cememnt mixer?
and you have.........
a mess
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#15
2008-12-08, 03:15 |
MH-iforgotmypassword
Regular
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Re: Contest: Win absolutely nothing!
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Tax
My turn.
Bleach
Ammonia
Sugar
H2SO4
KNO3
Glycerol
Urea
Have to use everything :P
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Any hints? I keep going through it when I get bored at work, but the best I can come up with is some sort of ballistite/gelignite knockoff... (nitroglycerine soaked into nitratosucrose).
Without using everything there are some interesting options, like candy rockets, ureanitrate, nitrogen trichloride, even sucralose, but I don't seem to be making any progress using all of the compounds... |
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#16
2008-12-08, 17:59 |
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Moderator
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I live in Heresy
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Re: Contest: Win absolutely nothing!
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Tax
My turn.
Bleach
Ammonia
Sugar
H2SO4
KNO3
Glycerol
Urea
Have to use everything :P
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Hmm, urea nitrate, ng, plain smoke mix, AN, ...
is chloramino nitrate explosive? |
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#17
2008-12-11, 07:27 |
Tax
Regular
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Re: Contest: Win absolutely nothing!
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Tax
My turn.
Bleach
Ammonia
Sugar
H2SO4
KNO3
Glycerol
Urea
Have to use everything :P
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OK, yes it is hard sorry 'bout that.
Its a single compound not a mixture of any sort.
Its a common C-nitro compound, though not based on a benzene ring. Comparable in performance to RDX. It is common and has found military uses but not typically made by amateurs.
Oxidation of the sugar is the first step. |
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#18
2008-12-12, 00:53 |
asilentbob
Regular
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Re: Contest: Win absolutely nothing!
Dilute HNO3 will oxidize sucrose to oxalic acid... IIRC... Remember something like this on frogfots page...
Glycerol acts as a catalyst for decomposing oxalic acid to formic acid... Which can be done with just a bit of glycerol + oxalic acid... and just heating it up to distill over the formic acid... adding more oxalic acid occasionally... Low heat to avoid decomposing the glycerol... High heat can result in some allyl alcohol, formic acid, and other compounds...
I suppose you could do some esterification between allyl alcohol and formic acid...
Urea+ HNO3 ---> urea nitrate
urea nitrate --H2SO4-> nitrourea
I think glycerol can be used for an ion scavenger so you could do hydrazine sulfate either from ammonia or urea... a strong base would be helpful though... and since no strong bases... you wouldn't be able to freebase it into hydrazine hydrate...
Umm very un-balanced burning of KNO3 with sugar can make very small amounts of potassium nitrite...
Dunno thats about all I can think of...
I'm interested though as its all appearing within reach.
But man, this is a nice one... And yeah the EDTA was for hydrazine sulfate synthesis, and subsequently azides.
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#19
2008-12-12, 00:56 |
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Re: Contest: Win absolutely nothing!
blah blah blah useless post blah blah blah
fixed
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#20
2008-12-12, 21:40 |
Tax
Regular
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Re: Contest: Win absolutely nothing!
So close Bob, your 1/3rd the way there and the hard bits done. If I put Fe in there you'd be even closer but there is another way. Think acidic ring compound.
Not an azide. Though would you happen to have the reference to glycerol as the metal iron scavenger? I think your right and I used to have an article on the study of such compounds for this purpose. The most effective common compound was still gelatine.
Just searched everywhere for it to no avail.
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#21
2008-12-29, 08:47 |
Mik-O
Regular
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Re: Contest: Win absolutely nothing!
using the car battery, you can pass a DC current through the molted salt to create chlorine gas, collect in the airbag?
i dunno
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Contest: Win absolutely nothing!