After searching the net I have realized there isn't a heap of information about mixing St. John's wart with MDMA.

I read that it would be a good idea to stop taking st john's wart for about 2 weeks before taking MDMA, is this long enough or over kill?

Secondly, some sources say it's a good idea to take st john's wart after your roll, would that be like 8 hours after dropping? or when would you say to take it? I know MAOI's have been said to reduce the neurotoxic effects of MDMA so I am hoping st John's wart could help.

Any other info would be awesome

Combining MDMA with a MAOI is ridiculously dangerous,
Many recorded deaths caused by MDMA is because they also used a MAOI, so I dont think 2 weeks is overkill.

Cite them.

orka..

I remember hearing someone on this forum took some st John's wart and then dropped some e and was rather bad off for a few months so I want to seriously avoid that. Is longer than 2 weeks off recommended then or is 2 weeks ok?

I seem to recall someone saying something about a time when the dropped some E, and he was rolling hard etc, and then it just stopped, like after an hour the drug completely wore off. He mentioned that he took St. Johns Wort, and someone else said "yea that'll do it." I believe that the St. Johns Wort may compete for serotonin receptors in the brain, and the MDMA becomes much less effective.

Dunno how true this is but the same thing happened to a friend of mine, it was probably something he took. (Hes into bodybuilding and energy supplements)

Can you?

http://tinyurl.com/5754br

http://tinyurl.com/38tz6l

MAO inhibitors do cause fatal reactions with various drugs. Meth and MDMA are among those. Jeez, it's really not much to expect for people to know this, you should be expected to know that much.... DON'T take E with an MAOI! it will create a massive surge of serotonin (essentially an untreatable and persisting form of serotonin syndrome) that will raise body temperature (serotonin regulates/increases body temp) causing your organs to break down and for you to die!

Similar deal with meth, only dopamine is involved instead. The high levels of dopamine cause a spike in blood pressure, due to MAO inhibition, that could quite easily kill someone.

MAOI's are srs bsness. Deadly interractions seem quite the common affair when dealing with them. That's one reason why MAOI's aren't used that often in treating depression or other commonplace things. They can be quite effective, there are just too many potential side effects for ordinary people to bother understanding all the considerations.

Think: the way MAOI's work is by inhibiting the breakdown of neurochemicals. In treating depression, we feel better because certain 'feel good' chemicals are kept around in the brain longer than normal, and so naturally there is an associated moodlift with taking these drugs. MAO is an enzyme that breaks down our neurotransmitters in order to be eliminated from the synapse. MAOI's inhibit this enzyme, and thus inhibit the natural elimination of the brain's neurotransmitters. Cocaine and MDMA cause surges in certain neurotransmitters.... So if you have a huge influx of neurotransmitters, and no way to eliminate them... really it just sounds like a fatal combination.

edit:
2 weeks at minimum. I don't know much at all about St. John's Wart, but some MAOI's should be abstained for around a month (!) before taking anything that might interract badly with it. That wasn't St. John's wart, though, and I have literally no knowledge of that particular herb, so I can't say anything specific on SJW but mostly just what I know of MAOI's in general.

I would wait a minimum of 2 weeks, though. I'd say a month to be on the safe side. And even then, dose on the lower end of the spectrum and judge how you react to the drugs. Maybe taking a look at your blood-pressure or something while rolling, to make sure you don't have much to worry about.

And I heard that it was SSRI's that are good to take after a roll... I've never heard that with MAOI's, although they may have revised that since I last read about it. Though as far as I know, I didn't think MAOI's reduce the damage caused by MDMA, but rather SSRIs.

^The question wasn't about whether or not mixing the two were dangerous; it was about whether or not there were recorded deaths caused by mixing them (hence my quoting only the "many recorded deaths" part of his post). I know full well that it's dangerous, but that wasn't what I asked. Don't try to act smart but end up avoiding the question.

It isn't as if there aren't any recorded deaths. I can't say there are 'many' and I'm not saying I'm going to bother searching for them, but people have died from the combination (with MAOI's in general, not necessarily just SJW, I'm sure) so I don't see why there wouldn't be any records of it...

A because there is no evidence for not A. Great argument.

If you can't talk about "many" deaths then don't get into the argument. Of course people have died from the combo but the discussion was about the quantity.

Fine, whatever. I guess I misinterpreted you in the first place, as I thought you were asking for a 'source' on the MAOI + E = fatal-bad, which I just thought was pretty stupid. An MAOI combination plus E is easily potent enough to kill someone, so I don't see why there wouldn't be a large body of supporting evidence for that, if people combining MAOIs and E happened to be more common.

We disagree on nothing; the deaths would be there in your hypothetical world where combos are frequent, but we don't live there so I asked Bean_Doodle for facts.

Then I'm glad to have misunderstood your post. I apologize for how I may have come across due to this misunderstanding.

Apology accepted. I'm sorry that I sounded like a dick, but what you were saying was just irrelevant.

I took St Johns Wort extract with two STRONG rolls once. I had a headache the whole fucking time. Yeah, stupid idea, but since St Johns wort is only a MAO-B inhibitor, and a weak one at that, I thought it would be ok.

Two weeks later I did E again, without the St Johns wort. 3 Days after that, I came down with some serious anxiety\panic\depression alogn with cold sweats,dizziness, "brain zaps" and fever. (Probably SS). I haven't been able to kick the anxiety even NOW (this was back in june), although it is MUCH MUCH improved.

Moral of the story, don't do St Johns wort with E, and if you do, stay away from E for a LONG time afterwards.

Lol this is how arguments on Totse should always turn out! Unfortunately....this is not the case


That sounds horrible, dude Gotta be careful with shit like that, although I can say that I would've used the same logic if I was experimenting with the combo without digging deeper...

Fuck I'm glad I didn't take any MDMA on friday night, things could of ended up quite bad...

Ah shit man, I think you were the person I was thinking of when I made this topic. I have heard that a month off the MAOI's is the way to go before dropping, but I thought SJW wasn't as potent so 2 weeks would have been fine.

Sounds like it is best to wait anyway and not have to worry as much about the risk. Thanks guys, glad I made a topic about it now.

Any updates on this?

any chem directly or indirectly affecting serotonin I personally would stop for at least 2-3 weeks before dosing


that said, maybe you should switch to bupropion(wellbutrin) if you're actively taking any anti-depressants as its an NDRI rather than inhibiting serotonin reuptake it works on norepinephrine and dopamine

I had been taking for about 2-3 weeks and took 140mg of pure mdma and still had an amazing time

Apparently dopamine has more to do with MDMA toxicity than serotonin does...in light of that info, bupropion might not be such a great idea...

Aww, you guys!