This is something that has come up in conversation with a few of my friends and I think it's a really good point and something to consider.

Those of you in serious relationships or that have had serious relationships know the routine. You fall in love, you commit to one another and eventually that spark fades. Eventually (for some it may take years, for some weeks, whatever) you find yourself more comfortable than crazy in love like you once were.

At this point you have two choices:

You either stick it out and hope that the spark comes back. Sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't.

Or you leave the comfort zone and look for a new spark.

Is it against our human nature to commit to someone for a lifetime? Is marriage just another tool to further consumerism and impose religion on us as a society?

Why should we not just be happy in the moment? Why do we feel such a need to commit to someone for life when it really goes against everything that we seem wired for?

I agree that polygamy can work. But it's not for everyone.

Two of my close female friends have expressed interest in dating me, and I've told them both to fuck off because I already have a girlfriend, and I don't want to cheat on her even though she'd never even find out. And I'd expect her to do the same. I just want to have ONE person I can exclusively be with and will exclusively be with me.

But fuck yeah, if you find multiple people who are interested in a love hexagon then by all means go for it.

Is it against our human nature to commit to someone for a lifetime?

yes it is.

Is marriage just another tool to further consumerism and impose religion on us as a society?

not sure about consumerism. but religion yes.

Why do we feel such a need to commit to someone for life when it really goes against everything that we seem wired for?

puritan moralist bullshit

If marriage is a tool to further consumerism, then divorce is it's ally.

As for whether monogamy is unnatural, well I don't know how you prove what is natural and what isn't. You'll have to define it first. If you define it as something like "the default setting for a certain aspect of the functioning of a particular creature" then, I'm not exactly sure. Anthropologically, I'm fairly certain that not every ancient culture in the world had a policy of strict monogamy, so if that was your definition it would be hard to justify.

It's hard to say what is and isn't "natural" and I'm not exactly sure that we, as a product of nature, aren't natural in our behaviours regardless of what we do. So it's a fairly useless term really.

With things like cloning and homosexuality, lots of people claim that these are unnatural behaviours. So I suppose their definition of natural would be "occuring outside the human race" or "occuring naturally i.e. without human intervention."

So I think the real problem here is defining natural, and how exactly you place humanity outside that definition in anything we can possibly do.

To answer your question, monogamy occurs in some species to a limited extent, and in others not at all. So I suppose the term "natural" might be used to measure the behaviour of our species against that of other animals.

In assessing "natural" behaviour, you have to look at the condition that the particular species in generally raised in or adjusted to. If the conditions change, the behaviour probably will too. So I'd be inclined to say that there is no "natural" behaviour at all, only behaviour which is adjusted to a set of conditions which the particular species is accustomed to (e.g. culture).

I don't know why people feel the need to commit. I suppose it can make a healthy environment for raising children, but as often as not it fucks them up for life. Yeah I don't see an argument for marriage. Sorry about the length.

Yeah, I think it is unnatural. I never want to get married. You know why people started getting married? So men could trade their daughters for livestock. Fuck that.

But at the same time I don't believe in polygamy because humans are natural very jealous creatures.

I think we should be with one person at a time, but we shouldn't expect it to last forever. I make my relationships last as long as I can though, to learn more about myself and other people.

One day I might find someone I'm happy dying with, but it's not going to be at 25, (which is the average age people get married).

I should clarify, sorry. I mean lifelong monogomy. I mean committed relationships such as marriage. I agree that we are jealous creatures and see nothing wrong with only having one sexual partner at a time, but commiting to one partner for a lifetime just seems unrealistic and wrong to me.

The high divorce rate confirms that suspicion imo.

And as far as it furthering consumerism, ever talked to anyone about what they spend on their weddings? INSANE amounts of gluttony prevail in wedding planning.

But at the same time I don't believe in polygamy because humans are natural very jealous creatures.


are you sure it isn't social conditioning or influence?

One day I might find someone I'm happy dying with, but it's not going to be at 25, (which is the average age people get married).

in more "liberal" states of the Us the average age is higher. some dont get married at all

I
The high divorce rate confirms that suspicion imo.


tends to be in "red" states where marriage is forced more on people, teenage marriage/pregnancy due to no condoms and 'abstinence-only' BS
http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2008/11/03/081103fa_fact_talbot?currentPage=all


And as far as it furthering consumerism, ever talked to anyone about what they spend on their weddings? INSANE amounts of gluttony prevail in wedding planning.

lol yeah. females being illogical again when you can go to the city hall and get a marriage certificate.

Or do it in Las Vegas with a few friends.

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOH snap.

http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?id=the-x-chromosome-and-monogamy

Researchers report genetic evidence bolstering the socially contentious idea that polygyny—the mating practice where some males dominate reproduction by fathering children with several women—was the norm for sexual behavior throughout human history and prehistory.

Why is this even an issue?

Some people are happy with one person, others are not. How about we all just do what we feel we want, as long as nobody else gets hurt (meaning no cheating, andeanbr).

Because a lot of people fall into the delusion that marriage is normal and expected and they hold it up as some rite of passage that everyone should aspire to achieve. Then they marry, realize that this isn't realistic, and find themselves with serious emotional problems and in a pit of misery once the reality of their situation becomes inescapable.

It does harm to our society to impose these expectations on the naive masses.

I'm not trying to dictate what people do, I just thought it would make for an interesting discussion

So we've established that monogamy isn't for everyone. And we've established that we shouldn't feel pressured to conform to social convention based on the traditional idea of a relationship being between just two people. We've also established that it's only immoral if someone gets hurt.

Anything more to add?

I'm shitting on your thread because I think you said you hope my girlfriend dumped me.

That hurt, you bitch :(

omg chichi just stfu. You don't think this is an issue worth discussing, then don't fucking post. Just because you don't want to talk about it doesn't mean other people don't.

That's life. You live, you get married a couple times, and then you learn. Marriage isn't for some people, most even.

omg i gots better idea

y dnt U stfu asshole!

LOL you pimped out second base with your girlfriend to your friend

duh, silly boy. of course she should dump you :p

if she didn't dump you then good, don't do it again - lesson learned.

hahahahahha, link?

And chichi is either like 14, or really stupid.

You inspired me to update my thread.

Go check it again.

Tell me I'm good :(

hahahahahha, link?

And chichi is either like 14, or really stupid.

How about you just shut the fuck up you little dipshit?

How many people have you helped here? How many? How fucking useful are you?

And I'm 15 :o

And I'm 15 :o

I turn 18 in 1 hour :(

EDIT: central time USA.

How about you just shut the fuck up you little dipshit?

How many people have you helped here? How many? How fucking useful are you?

And I'm 15 :o

A lot actually. And thats also irrelevant you stupid shit.

I agree with Malkog's problem with having no clear working definition of what we mean by "natural" in this context. I would be willing to put forth "natural" as meaning - in line with our instincts and impulses. As such, I think it is problematic to say what is natural for ALL humans, because we have different natural impulses and instincts, this is why many people think homosexuality is unnatural, because they have never felt those natural impulses, while homosexuals do. So, I think for some, lifelong monogamy will feel normal and comfortable for them, in line with their instincts and impulses, while many others will feel an urge for something/someone different. So is it natural? For some and not for others, I'd rather not make a blanket statement for all of humanity, let's just say it is in the range of human behaviors, just as homosexuality is.

From my own point of view, I'm certainly not rushing such a commitment, though I do not fear it either. I just approach such a commitment with the humbleness that maybe it won't work out and that is fine, I won't stick around just for the hell of it. In the long run though, I hope I can find someone that I can be happy with, because, honestly, I don't want to be 65 years old, still trying to go out and meet women. I think that would get old and be quite lonely more often than not.

A lot actually. And thats also irrelevant you stupid shit.

Nobody even knows who you are. Shut the fuck up.

Nobody even knows who you are. Shut the fuck up.

No, you don't know who I am. Tons of people know who I am. My last account, aliveupboy, was a well known troll.

And once again, that is irrelevant. Just stfu, you don't know what you're talking about.

My last account, aliveupboy, was a well known troll.

I am honestly intimidated by your obviously superior credentials.

I am honestly intimidated by your obviously superior credentials.

ok... I'm not trying to intimidate you. You keep saying things which aren't true and I keep correcting you. All I want is for you to stop saying stupid, irrelevant shit.

Is monogamy instinctual? Probably not. From a biological standpoint breeding is supposed to be conducive to genetic diversity, and having a single partner for life doesn't really work with the whole goal of reproduction. Polygamy is generally the dominant mode of reproduction in nature.

However from a sociological standpoint, monogamy might not be a product of our primal needs and urges, however modern society contains a plethora of examples where our instincts are ignored in favor of cultural constructs. In my eyes it doesn't really matter whether or not monogamy is 'natural,' whether or not it is part of our instinctual functioning, because we live in a modern society and are raised in a culture of which monogamy is an integral part. Of course the idea of having a single partner for life is an idea that is constructed by society, but that doesn't make it less valid or necessary. In this day and age people tend to be molded by the culture and society they're raised in just as much, if not more than their instinctual make-up. So maybe we don't have a visceral need to get married and have a partner for life, however our subconscious is shaped by more than our instincts, and the learned desire for monogamy, for consistent companionship and normalcy, is just as powerful and valid as the instinctual desires for the contrary.

I may come back and edit this spiel when I'm not falling asleep on my keyboard.

Wow, I completely agree.
I hate how people think something is wrong with someone if they don't want to get married or aren't hurrying to get a man to put a ring on her finger.
When I was a kid I never dreamed of that big fairy tale wedding and the perfect prince charming. Marriage is just dumb in this day and age. I don't see why women feel the need to get married. I guess if you are lazy and don't want to work, marriage is great ladies! But in this age where women can go to college and work and be independent, wanting to get married and have babies and cook and clean and have a man take care of you seems retarded. I'm not trying to sound like some feminazi, but I think people should focus on bettering themselves not waiting for some prince to sweep them off their feet and take care of them.

I think that if you want to date one person at a time or seven people at a time, that's cool as long as EVERYONE in the relationship understands what is going on.

I don't believe in marrying several people though. That's lame,.

Wow, I completely agree.
I hate how people think something is wrong with someone if they don't want to get married or aren't hurrying to get a man to put a ring on her finger.
When I was a kid I never dreamed of that big fairy tale wedding and the perfect prince charming. Marriage is just dumb in this day and age. I don't see why women feel the need to get married. I guess if you are lazy and don't want to work, marriage is great ladies! But in this age where women can go to college and work and be independent, wanting to get married and have babies and cook and clean and have a man take care of you seems retarded. I'm not trying to sound like some feminazi, but I think people should focus on bettering themselves not waiting for some prince to sweep them off their feet and take care of them.

I think that if you want to date one person at a time or seven people at a time, that's cool as long as EVERYONE in the relationship understands what is going on.

I don't believe in marrying several people though. That's lame,.

And I believe you're a stupid fucking waste of space. Why? You assume any girl who wants to get married wants to stay at home, give up her career, aspirations and ambitions and be a nice little kitchen monkey.

Marriage is more symbolic. "I want to love you, hold you, and grow old and die with you, as partners". FUCK..you're so stupid. 'In this day and age' marriage comes with financial advantages as well, especially when looking at government assistance with children, childcare, taxes, getting home loans, etc. So either way you look at it, there's an advantage. I can see why people wouldn't want to get married, I feel this way half the time. It's like a ball and chain that will stop you from truly soloing the world. How ever, I can see the advantages of it as well.

No prince charming bullshit, no stay at home wife pussy dribble, just plain and simple "I love you, and want to share life with you".

Reading comprehension, get it.

*goes to sleep*

And I believe you're a stupid fucking waste of space. Why? You assume any girl who wants to get married wants to stay at home, give up her career, aspirations and ambitions and be a nice little kitchen monkey.

Marriage is more symbolic. "I want to love you, hold you, and grow old and die with you, as partners". FUCK..you're so stupid. 'In this day and age' marriage comes with financial advantages as well, especially when looking at government assistance with children, childcare, taxes, getting home loans, etc. So either way you look at it, there's an advantage. I can see why people wouldn't want to get married, I feel this way half the time. It's like a ball and chain that will stop you from truly soloing the world. How ever, I can see the advantages of it as well.

No prince charming bullshit, no stay at home wife pussy dribble, just plain and simple "I love you, and want to share life with you".

Reading comprehension, get it.

*goes to sleep*

I'm not trying to say that every single girl who wants to get married wants to do all of that stuff. I am talking about the girls who do feel that way. I have seen a lot of little girls who were taught that they need to find a guy young so that he can take care of them. These are the girls that don't value education and hard work. They think that if they are married the guy is supposed to take care of them and they just stay at home.

given the progression of our species, i doubt it. but that isn't a question someone on totse can answer.

although i believe in marriage, monogamy is unnatural, purely based on whether it is natural for a human to have more than one partner or not. it goes back to when we lived in caves, when one man would have a harem of several women, and its basically about nature - the more women you have, the more chance of procreating you have.

To everyone who says it's unnatural - how would you feel growing up in a family with only one parent, where both your parents were changing partners every few months?


Call me what you like, but I still believe in eternal love.

I would say a lot of people here probably have grown up with one parent or divorced parents. It's pretty common.

And do you think it's a good thing?

I know, you can say, that subjectively a kid won't know any better, so for him this family would be as good as any other.

But objectively?

A kid growing up in a family of two loving parents is much better off than a kid growing up in family that split up. And, in the worse case, that has a new "mum" or "dad" every once in a while.

What these people think of when they marry I have no idea.

And do you think it's a good thing?

I know, you can say, that subjectively a kid won't know any better, so for him this family would be as good as any other.

But objectively?

A kid growing up in a family of two loving parents is much better off than a kid growing up in family that split up. And, in the worse case, that has a new "mum" or "dad" every once in a while.

What these people think of when they marry I have no idea.

That's more a case against marriage than it is for it. Or at least an argument about the majority of people not having children. I mean, a kid growing up in a family of two parents who hate each other and only stay together for the kid's sake is probably going to turn out worse than a kid with only one parent.

I think a child growing up in a family with two loving parents is ideal.

I think that is also unrealistic.

Of every adult I know with two living parents it is rare (I won't say impossible, but very very rare) that the parents are in love and happy together.

They are either separated, divorced, or staying together out of obligation and clearly unhappy with each other.

My own parents are married, nice to each other, live together but not in love. I won't go into details but I'm sure (though they've never said anything) that they are together out of marital obligation - not love or compassion.

I just don't think it's realistic. Yes I'm sure there are people out there that find a true soulmate and are in love with this other person for all of their lives. I think that's fabulous but I think the odds of this happening to any of us in our lifetime is probably less likely than winning a lottery or being struck by lightning.

I am a total romantic, believe it or not. I totally believe in true love, I believe passion is important, I think that being in love is fabulous. But I also think that expecting true love to last a lifetime is setting yourself up for heartache.

agreed agent. Unconditional love till the bitter end

That being said.. hell no, course i don't believe monogamy's in any way natural, but who says you can't love someone and sleep with another :P