I want to know how important physical attractiveness is to you. Also, I want to feel better about being a shallow asshole, so be honest.

For me:

Ugliness: I could deal with it if my girlfriend had an ugly face, given that she had an excellent personality, charisma, dressed well, had good hair etc. But if you're a fugly skank who can't compensate with other qualities, then I'm not dating you. :(

Fat: Unless you're painfully fucking overweight, like obese, you're fine with me. I wouldn't mind fat sex, and I've noticed that fat girls tend to be more horny (or maybe they're just desperate). And I'm not really into skinny girls anyway. The only downside would be that I'm thin and would feel kind of inadequate. :(

Acne: I'm quite okay with moderate acne (though sometimes it's a bit gross when you're kissing and you see it really close up, or if it touches your face) but yeah that wouldn't really bother me too much at all. However, if a girl had severe cystic acne that leaked pus everywhere, I don't give a fuck if she was my soul mate, I would not date her if I felt sick when looking at her face. :(

Hairy: Fuck you. Hair on a girls arms, back, legs, upper lip (even if it's just peach fuzz) is fucking gross and I will not hesitate to tell you to shave it. Though for some reason, hairy arm pits turn me on. Also I like bush. But apart from arm pits and vagina, girls, please shave. :(

Hygiene: Hmm...While I find BO kind of sexy sometimes, for the most part, hygiene is important. I hate chicks with smelly feet, bad breath, dirty hair. It's just fucking eww girls, just clean yourself up. :(



How about you?

Physical properties don't matter to me at all as long as I like my girl's personality.

I said be honest.

I said be honest.

I was honest, fuckface. just because someone likes a partner as a comrade and not a piece of flesh doesn't mean he/she is lying.

Edit: Oh, yeah, except fat.

Ugliness: Ugly by whose standards? I could find her attractive and others think she's ugly, this is fine.

Fat: I'm slender and fit. I enjoy heaps of physical activities and a fat girl is gross and wouldn't be able to keep up.

Acne: I've dated girls who get break outs, or certain BC pills make their skin go bad etc and I don't even notice it. If her skin was bad all the time I wouldn't of gone for her in the first place (as shallow as that sounds).

Hygiene: I love sex hair. Messy, matted, dreaded, dirty hair. I love the shit. Also I love my girlfriend smell when it's sweat and her perfume. That hot summer night smell. Amazing. I shower once a day and keep my self clean, but I'm not prissy and don't expect perfection. Oh but I draw the line when it comes to her cunt. Keep that shit clean and trimmed/shaved OR don't expect me to have a sex drive/give you oral. Simple.

for the longest time i thought that i held looks/personality in pretty equally, but someone recently said to me that they couldn't date a girl who had a bigger waist size than he did and it kind of caused me to think about it and eventually i guess i kind of agree with him. i'm a pretty skinny/lanky guy myself and i guess i prefer more petite women or whatever, so i suppose its more of a personal preference thing. thats not to say that if a larger girl had a super awesome personality and was into me i would be totally against it, but thats just not like the first place i'm most likely going to look, you know. that being said, just because a girl is smaller/more attractive i am going to be all about getting with her, there has to be a balance.

i hope that doesn't make me a shallow fuck but thats just how i feel about the matter.

[Edit]: oh and i guess i kind of like it when a girl has poor hygene (as weird as that is to say). not like dirty, but not one that is as obsessed with her personal apperance as most other girls seem to be.

Ugliness: I don't think I would date anyone that I found to be ugly, but that really depends on what you consider to be ugly. I've been attracted to alot of girls who weren't exactly conventional. It's even sort of a plus.

Fat: I will not even look at a girl that's bigger than I am. I've got a 30in waist, 140lb and 5'8. I don't think I'm asking too much here. I freely admit that I like long skinny girls. Being fat also translates to having personality defects.

Acne: I'm pretty forgiving on pimples, seeing as how I spent most of my teenage years with a mild acne problem. I do like girls with nice skin, but it's not a major issue for me.

Hairy: Shave your legs and armpits please. And wax the upper lip if necessary.

Hygiene: I wouldn't go for a girl unless she looked well groomed. Take some pride in your appearance. I hate those girls who show up at university in flip flops, sweatpants, and a big hoody with greasy matted hair. You don't have to wear tons of makeup and look like a supermodel (please don't, actually), but really, it doesn't take much effort to shower regularly and wear decent clothes.

That's the truth.


*ObZ

I always thought you were married to a martial arts master and had 2 kids.

I always thought you were married to a martial arts master and had 2 kids.

No. But that's funny...

Oye...

Ugliness:

Maybe I just need to get laid more often, but I've actually had the thought "whoa, she's pretty hot for a fugly chick." And meant it.

Of course...

But if you're a fugly skank who can't compensate with other qualities, then I'm not dating you. :(

Well, shit nigga. If she's hot as shit but can't compensate with other qualities, I'm not dating her. Hella down for "meaningless no-strings carnality," but I'm not pretending I actually like or care about someone unless I do. For starters, it's not fair to them. From there, it's not exactly fair to me.

I have no idea where my actual boundaries lie on fugly. I know they're looser than most straight guys would claim, but I have no idea if they're limitless, or if I'm just going to shallowly shout "run away!!" upon meeting a face that even a mother couldn't love.

But, hey... normal, non-nightmare fugly, well... like I said, I've actually done the "wow, she's fugly, but HOT" thing, wierd as it is.

Fat:

I'm cheating; I have a chubby-chaser fetish right alongside a skinny girl fetish, so... doesn't count. ;)

Acne:

Remarkably not a problem that I know of. I don't know why, but "DFC" is usually an indicator that someone has better skin than anyone you've ever met.

As for "what ifs?" Well, most people's "worst terrible acne outbreak ever" wouldn't even slightly phase me. I've seen some rare acne outbreaks where, while I might be with a person, it might be a, umm... "not one of their good qualities."

Normal horrible acne outbreak = I don't care. "Diseased mutant freak," well... it's definately about their personality in that case, lol.

Hairy:

Lol... again, usually not a problem in my life. Baby teeth and moustaches never seem to go together...

I met a girl with some bitchin' arm hair once, though. She was a good friend, and pretty hot, so it's at least possible. Then again, she was blonde, so it didn't show up as much...

There's something hilarious about a seven year old girl with hairier arms than you, btw.

Could there come a point where it's a turn-off? Well... have you ever seen a chimpanzee in the wild? For all I know, there could be a point where it might be a bit wierd. Then again, I just got a wierd mental image of a very cute chimpanzee-human, and it really fucked with my head. I don't know.

Luckily, more to the point, while there could be something which could freak me out somewhat... nothing I've seen is a turn off of any sort. Then again, hairiness isn't exactly a burden I have to face as much of the rest of you...

...though I find it hilarious that the person whose preferred partner generally has an extreme absence of body hair is less turned off by yeti-limbs than you, it seems. Just one of those wierd paradoxes that defies expectation. ~shrug~ There could be something that turns me off, I just don't know what it is yet.

Hygiene:

Honestly? I prefer it sort of in the middle. Sweatpants are sexy. An oversized t-shirt and nothing else is sexy. Real people are sexy. Jon Benet Ramsey on stage is not.

So, right in the middle is about perfect.

As for tolerances? Well... I actually have spent four or five hours in a closed closet chilling with a girl who had successfully shit herself to the point at which it ran down her ankles without particularly caring. I have no idea if I'm proud of that or ashamed of that, but oh well.

If she'd asked me to go down on her, I would have made her take a damned bath first, though.

I'd say I probably care somewhat - babies may be hot, but dirty diapers are not. Trust me on this. Obvious visible neglect is a turn-off, albeit one I can work around without too much hassle. I've actually chewed on the toes of slightly-stinky feet which were slightly dirty from running around outdoors barefoot; while minor/moderate footstink was not a turn-on, I actually sort of like the "running barefoot through the grass" thing...

So... I'd say middling. "caked in shit" =/= unseksay. Overprimped is usually unsekxhay. "Average person living a normal life" is usually pretty damned cool.

So, all in all... extreme acne, extreme poor hygine, or extreme hairiness might be an obstacle, though I'm not sure of a dealbreaker. "A bit outside average" on any of those is probably not going to affect much for me, 'n I'd probably be with someone I cared about regardless of at least moderate obstacles.

As for tolerances? Well... I actually have spent four or five hours in a closed closet chilling with a girl who had successfully shit herself to the point at which it ran down her ankles without particularly caring. I have no idea if I'm proud of that or ashamed of that, but oh well.



Alright Joe, I have to ask. What the fuck?

What's the back story on that tale?

all of those things are deal breakers. if im not hot for her then our relationship will never be honest or meaningful. i dont need to slum it just to have someone.

Alright Joe, I have to ask. What the fuck?

What's the back story on that tale?

He's JoePedo, he fucks babies.

Hygiene is of EXTREME importance to me. I shower 2/3 times a day (3 if its been a long day) and I always keep myself fresh. Even on days in by myself I'll do this. It makes me feel nice. I couldn't stand not showering for a day. That said, I don't use alot of scent. I like the smell of clean laundry (on guys too) and when I do wear scent it's just a little bit of Coco Mademoiselle or Miss Dior Cherie.

I have a boyfriend, but if I didn't, no guy that didn't match my hygiene standards would even be considered for a second. If you look after yourself (brush your teeth, have clean hair, neat clean nails, etc) it is a projection of how you may treat others too.

This also goes for being overweight - a little bit is fine and not a problem, but if it's just because of gluttony and laziness its just not good at all.

I know its a bit Angela Carter, but eyebrows that meet in the middle aren't that great on anyone!

I'd suggest trying upping your grooming, chaps. Just see what difference it makes.

Ugliness: It depends how ugly. I mean an average guy who isn't good looking or remarkable by other people's standards could still be attractive to me. If I have really good chemistry with someone, their aesthetic shortcomings tend to fade away and instead of looking at them and seeing a plain face, I see someone who I really like, care about, and enjoy being with. I think I could be with and be attracted to anyone whose looks don't like...freak me out, or make me think 'god damn, how could someone be so ugly?"

Fat: Again, it depends how fat, and why they are that way. Some people carry a bit of weight by nature, and are pretty healthy, take care of themselves, and look like 'comfy fat' rather than 'almost dead fat.' I could tolerate a guy with a little extra weight, not to say that I'd be attracted to it, but I could deal with it. However I will always prefer a guy whose body I love, not a guy who I love in spite of his body.

Acne: Acne happens. Most people have it in varying degrees at some point in their life. Unless it's really severe, I don't tend to notice it. I'm not going to lie: gigantic, chronic outbreaks of cystic acne are a major mood killer for me. But light to moderate acne doesn't bother me too much. I can forgive a guy for having a big, hilarious zit in the middle of his forehead, and I would expect him to do the same.

Hairy: This is fuzzy territory for me (excuse the bad pun :(). Men are supposed to be hairy to a certain point, but too hairy grosses me out. Chest hair, arm hair, leg hair, armpit hair, facial hair, all totally fine. But back hair makes me retch. I will always prefer non-hairy/moderately hair guys over bushmen, I think. I keep all my hair in check, and I kind of expect a guy to show the same courtesy.

Hygiene: Very important. Body odor/sweatiness is okay in certain situations. If we're playing an intense game of 1 on 1 basketball, or having sex, or other such active stuff, sweat is expected and even kind of sexy. But an all-the-time sweaty, smelly, BO-cloud is disgusting. Same goes for consistent bad breath, excessively greasy skin, dirty fingernails, stinky feet, unbrushed teeth, and other hygienic negligences. Almost any sin of hygiene can be forgiven now and then: people aren't perfect, and I don't expect people to not have the occasional too-busy-to-clean-under-my-nails moment, foot odor, or morning breath. But it's when it's habitual that it enters the realm of grossness.

Alright Joe, I have to ask. What the fuck?

What's the back story on that tale?

Well, the amusing part of the back story is that, walking down the street in the middle of the fucking night, some guy I don't know introduced me to his friend's daughter who I ended up living with for quite a while...

Yes. Loki has blessed my love life and I can't explain it either...

...but the backstory that actually relates to the story is that, about three or four months into the "will date your daughter for room and board" schtick (trust me, folks, I actually am a professional, lol)... I was wandering sort of aimlessly about, when the closet door opened, and a small hand beckoned excitedly for me to join her...

So, naturally, that's how we spent the next several hours in a darkened closet just shooting the shit about everything and nothing... we could seriously talk for hours about just little things, and thoughts, and opinions, and our life... and for those who are inevitably going to ask "how the hell can you talk to a three year old girl," well... there are two things to talk about in life - science, and nothing at all, and I seriously cannot find anyone to discuss science with offline, so life and feelings and hopes and dreams is as good as anything.

About twenty minutes in, I started to notice a faint aroma. I couldn't really place it, and while it wasn't specifically pleasant, it was mild enough to not really be actively unpleasant either. Since its aromatic notes were unlike anything I had ever smelled, I couldn't place it - and honestly assumed it was just volitaile staining from some past cooking project that was potentially misjudged.

About an hour, maybe two in, after the conclusion of discussing her feelings in some current event in her life and coming to a pause... she sort of sheepishly and conspiratorily grabs the arch of her foot, lifts it above her head (yes, &totse, yes she WAS that flexible), and in sort of a conspiratorial tone of infinite trust and shy humility, mentions "I pooped my pants." 'n sure enough, on the back of her ankle, there was a faint remnant of a stream of black crust, ever so light.

Now, the girl's mom - God bless her soul - was like most parents. Sadly, this means that her only method of dealing with her daughter pretty much involved using her as an emotional crutch and dumping ground for stress, yelling at the poor kid every time the woman encountered a surprise which didn't delight her, rather than trying to figure out how this situation could have come to be and maturely engaging in open and honest communication to solve the problems in her life and the lives of her loved ones such that everyone's needs were met. Don't get me wrong, I respect the hell out of her and know she loves her daughter very much, but this society happens to be basically the most toxic possible society for adult-child relations, and this kind, caring woman was very much led astray by a fundamentally flawed example of what "should" be done - which in this society means beating the shit out of your kids as a prophylactic against "spoilage" rather than for any reason. Fucked up.

'n since her mom was very much like most parents in the ways of this society, that meant that her daughter was very much like most "kids," and did everything in her power to keep her mother out of her life for her own god-damned saftey. Add to this the fact that she'd been repeatedly raped by multiple boyfriends of her mother's (and yes, she was three when I met her, the relationships were at least medium-term in length - you can do the math and come up with the fact that the world is sometimes horrifically less fair than we like to think it is), and just written it off as the obvious observation, that no adult gives a fuck about her or what she thinks or her feelings, and you end up with someone who is fiercely independent. She damn well took care of herself, and she did it alone, sometimes with a determination that bordered on violence...

...and as is standard for the psychology - think "orphan of a brutal and multigenerational civil war" - she didn't really give a damn about anybody enough to not slit their throat, but on the rarest instance that she did care about someone, she'd lay down her life or go to any extreme lengths to take care of them.... which definately made her the dominant party in the relationship, lol, no two ways about it and backed by the sort of iron fucking will that kept her alive this far... 'n while it may seem like nothing to me, who can easily get my own food, there's something deeply moving and symbolic about a preschooler whose very chance to eat depends on her mother remembering she even exists, when her mother noticing she exists usually results in violence and an absence of her needs being met, stealing food just to share with you and taking the fall for it herself - even if it did unsuspectingly put me in a few situations which were sort of socially inconvenient.

I was totally devoted to her, and I'll still never be able to comprehend the depths of her devotion to me...

...anyways, suffice to say - she sure as hell wasn't about to tell her mother that she'd crapped her pants in her sleep about twelve to fifteen hours ago. It would have only led to her being called stupid and worthless and yelled at, instead of her mother being their to assist her daughter in meeting and mastering the trials and tribulations of life which can come with being fresh out of toddlerhood. 'n whatever I felt might otherwise be a constructive thing to do, I sure as fuck was not going to betray her confidence and trust; it's just not the moral thing to do...

...unfortunately, while three months of dating someone's daughter will give you a total pass on making out in the corner or just cuddling up and whispering sweet nothings to each other while you caress each other (lol, a person's daughter having a crush on you counts for a LOT. Serious)... it does not, in all but the most liberal and tolerant of households, cover stripping their daughter naked and throwing her in a bathtub without involving her mother.

In fact, for reasons I cannot explain, I can surmise from later experience (being the clothes hanger while talking to her mom, while the girl stripped down and changed outfits), that I would probably have a better chance of stripping her naked and not giving her a bath, than doing so. Strange, but true.

So... I did what could be done; I loved, accepted, and respected her as a valuable and worthwhile human being exactly as I did before she told me this - and giggled a little. ;) She didn't seem to be in any discomfort - if she had been, I would've gone through hell and back trying to convince her to let us bring this to her mother, and then to hell and back again trying to convince her mother not to throw a fit - and being twelve or more hours old, it didn't stink too bad, wasn't rubbing all over the place or grinding into anything... it was, in short, an at-leisure affair. 'n since she wasn't about to tell her mother without me gambling blind-fucking-trust I didn't have any right to and going through hell and back to convince her mother not to flip out and hoping for the best... I sort of giggled a little, gave her a reassuring "it happens sometimes," and we went back to talking about life...

'till the day I die I'll be god-damned proud that I was able to provide her with what she judged to be a safe place she could turn to with any issue, without judgement. I'll also be pretty damned happy if the "you don't have to 'put out' for people to love and respect you," which came up pretty damned early in the relationship as it often does with children who have been victims of repeat sexual violence in the first five years, actually happens to stick with her as a lesson in life....

~sigh~

Suffice to say, pun not intended, she was not in any way, shape or form going to tell her mother shit about her inconvenient shit, if she could avoid it. 'n since it wasn't immediately important and nothing could be done about it, we... just... sort of went back to talking about everything and nothing and life...

...some number of hours later, her mother's wish to journey to the grocery store led to a progressive hysterical breakdown as she was actually forced to mention this. Luckily - as was, quite ironically, usually the case - her borderline collapse actually saved her from the shit her mother would usually put her through for a little mishap like this, as her mother couldn't tell progressive hysterical fear from a tantrum (which, ironically, was usually enacted consciously for effect - the girl was pretty good at using the "stupid kid" routine for continuous, steady-rate, managed stress)... and her mother's wish to avoid going deeper into the hassle of a tantrum signifigantly blunted the violence of her judgementalism.

Fucked up as it is, dysfunction manages to balance itself out. Equilibrium and homeostasis, folks... they may work themselves out in convoluted and fucked-up ways, but they always happen somehow.

It may sound like I'm dumping on her mother - I'm not. She didn't know what the hell to do with it, but she loved her daughter very much. I'm blaming a fucked-up society which teaches people who do care about the children in their lives that they should treat them so horribly. 'n for those who're concerned with happy endings, she did end up interacting positively with her daughter and viewing her daughter as a coequal person in her own right instead of a "kid" by the time we parted ways (she moved). People view their friends' friends differently, even when it's their own daughter. It was good to see someone who loved the same girl as I finally find the courage to follow her heart, instead of some script of what "should" be.

So... inb4...

- Mojo 'n half the female posters of &totse vicariously fall in love with me on account of their continuing girlhood.

- some kid from HB posts "you should've hit that while it was still in the 'I'll put out if you'll be my friend' phase."

- DerDrache/KoB/Carbon start talking shit & calling me a "fag" and "weak" for not taking advantage of her in the "I'll put out if you'll be my friend" phase like a "real" man.

- Jackketch looks at me funny.

- everyone else asks "wtf?", and possibly goes back to trying not to try to figure it out.

- someone asks for nude pix.

...'n just to bring it back on the topic of this thread - she was the butterface from hell, lol. (great body though)... not ugly to look at, but... painfully plain. Think "borderline-retarded english inbred peasant whose complexion is mostly determined by excema" and you've got a pretty good idea of her facial features, even if her neck and below was as hot as it gets... no ugliness, just really fuckin' plain.

She was - and is - beautiful as hell to me, though. 'n whenever I want to feel like I'm not alone in the world, in the metaphorical/metaphysical sense, I simply imagine her and remember the person she is and the time we spent together, 'n everything's just fine. :)

Cheers.

God fucking damn Joe.

God fucking damn.

Wow.....

how old?

I am a girl:

Ugliness: I am not all that into big muscles, hard abs, and huge calf muscles but a little bit of muscle wouldn't hurt. I like thin nerdy looking guys, but not bulk teethed losers.

Fat: Honestly, I am very turned off by fat and stretch marks. It's not something I like about myself, but I dated a guy who was on the larger side and at times I thought he was going to break me. I am 90 lbs, and to have someone three times your weight laying on you is hard to keep the passion going.

Acne: I don't like acne. A little is fine, but if it's full out acne it needs to be treated. The scars or redness is fine, but I always feel like if my face rubs up against theirs its going to sprout on my face. It's just disgusting to be kissing someone who's face is greasy and bumpy.

Hairy: I absolutely hate when guys don't shave their face. It's a sign of laziness. Guys yell and look down at girls all the time for not shaving their legs or armpits, or even their bikini line, yet its fien for them to go a whole week without shaving their face. It's scratchy, it's usually patchy and looks stupid, and is just a sign of pure laziness. Shave it!

Hygiene: While some guys' scent can be a turn-on, full out BO is not. Take a shower, swipe some DO on, and if you are feeling like it some cologne, but not too much.

Well, the amusing part of the back story is that, walking down the street in the middle of the fucking night, some guy I don't know introduced me to his friend's daughter who I ended up living with for quite a while...

Yes. Loki has blessed my love life and I can't explain it either...

...but the backstory that actually relates to the story is that, about three or four months into the "will date your daughter for room and board" schtick (trust me, folks, I actually am a professional, lol)... I was wandering sort of aimlessly about, when the closet door opened, and a small hand beckoned excitedly for me to join her...

So, naturally, that's how we spent the next several hours in a darkened closet just shooting the shit about everything and nothing... we could seriously talk for hours about just little things, and thoughts, and opinions, and our life... and for those who are inevitably going to ask "how the hell can you talk to a three year old girl," well... there are two things to talk about in life - science, and nothing at all, and I seriously cannot find anyone to discuss science with offline, so life and feelings and hopes and dreams is as good as anything.

About twenty minutes in, I started to notice a faint aroma. I couldn't really place it, and while it wasn't specifically pleasant, it was mild enough to not really be actively unpleasant either. Since its aromatic notes were unlike anything I had ever smelled, I couldn't place it - and honestly assumed it was just volitaile staining from some past cooking project that was potentially misjudged.

About an hour, maybe two in, after the conclusion of discussing her feelings in some current event in her life and coming to a pause... she sort of sheepishly and conspiratorily grabs the arch of her foot, lifts it above her head (yes, &totse, yes she WAS that flexible), and in sort of a conspiratorial tone of infinite trust and shy humility, mentions "I pooped my pants." 'n sure enough, on the back of her ankle, there was a faint remnant of a stream of black crust, ever so light.

Now, the girl's mom - God bless her soul - was like most parents. Sadly, this means that her only method of dealing with her daughter pretty much involved using her as an emotional crutch and dumping ground for stress, yelling at the poor kid every time the woman encountered a surprise which didn't delight her, rather than trying to figure out how this situation could have come to be and maturely engaging in open and honest communication to solve the problems in her life and the lives of her loved ones such that everyone's needs were met. Don't get me wrong, I respect the hell out of her and know she loves her daughter very much, but this society happens to be basically the most toxic possible society for adult-child relations, and this kind, caring woman was very much led astray by a fundamentally flawed example of what "should" be done - which in this society means beating the shit out of your kids as a prophylactic against "spoilage" rather than for any reason. Fucked up.

'n since her mom was very much like most parents in the ways of this society, that meant that her daughter was very much like most "kids," and did everything in her power to keep her mother out of her life for her own god-damned saftey. Add to this the fact that she'd been repeatedly raped by multiple boyfriends of her mother's (and yes, she was three when I met her, the relationships were at least medium-term in length - you can do the math and come up with the fact that the world is sometimes horrifically less fair than we like to think it is), and just written it off as the obvious observation, that no adult gives a fuck about her or what she thinks or her feelings, and you end up with someone who is fiercely independent. She damn well took care of herself, and she did it alone, sometimes with a determination that bordered on violence...

...and as is standard for the psychology - think "orphan of a brutal and multigenerational civil war" - she didn't really give a damn about anybody enough to not slit their throat, but on the rarest instance that she did care about someone, she'd lay down her life or go to any extreme lengths to take care of them.... which definately made her the dominant party in the relationship, lol, no two ways about it and backed by the sort of iron fucking will that kept her alive this far... 'n while it may seem like nothing to me, who can easily get my own food, there's something deeply moving and symbolic about a preschooler whose very chance to eat depends on her mother remembering she even exists, when her mother noticing she exists usually results in violence and an absence of her needs being met, stealing food just to share with you and taking the fall for it herself - even if it did unsuspectingly put me in a few situations which were sort of socially inconvenient.

I was totally devoted to her, and I'll still never be able to comprehend the depths of her devotion to me...

...anyways, suffice to say - she sure as hell wasn't about to tell her mother that she'd crapped her pants in her sleep about twelve to fifteen hours ago. It would have only led to her being called stupid and worthless and yelled at, instead of her mother being their to assist her daughter in meeting and mastering the trials and tribulations of life which can come with being fresh out of toddlerhood. 'n whatever I felt might otherwise be a constructive thing to do, I sure as fuck was not going to betray her confidence and trust; it's just not the moral thing to do...

...unfortunately, while three months of dating someone's daughter will give you a total pass on making out in the corner or just cuddling up and whispering sweet nothings to each other while you caress each other (lol, a person's daughter having a crush on you counts for a LOT. Serious)... it does not, in all but the most liberal and tolerant of households, cover stripping their daughter naked and throwing her in a bathtub without involving her mother.

In fact, for reasons I cannot explain, I can surmise from later experience (being the clothes hanger while talking to her mom, while the girl stripped down and changed outfits), that I would probably have a better chance of stripping her naked and not giving her a bath, than doing so. Strange, but true.

So... I did what could be done; I loved, accepted, and respected her as a valuable and worthwhile human being exactly as I did before she told me this - and giggled a little. ;) She didn't seem to be in any discomfort - if she had been, I would've gone through hell and back trying to convince her to let us bring this to her mother, and then to hell and back again trying to convince her mother not to throw a fit - and being twelve or more hours old, it didn't stink too bad, wasn't rubbing all over the place or grinding into anything... it was, in short, an at-leisure affair. 'n since she wasn't about to tell her mother without me gambling blind-fucking-trust I didn't have any right to and going through hell and back to convince her mother not to flip out and hoping for the best... I sort of giggled a little, gave her a reassuring "it happens sometimes," and we went back to talking about life...

'till the day I die I'll be god-damned proud that I was able to provide her with what she judged to be a safe place she could turn to with any issue, without judgement. I'll also be pretty damned happy if the "you don't have to 'put out' for people to love and respect you," which came up pretty damned early in the relationship as it often does with children who have been victims of repeat sexual violence in the first five years, actually happens to stick with her as a lesson in life....

~sigh~

Suffice to say, pun not intended, she was not in any way, shape or form going to tell her mother shit about her inconvenient shit, if she could avoid it. 'n since it wasn't immediately important and nothing could be done about it, we... just... sort of went back to talking about everything and nothing and life...

...some number of hours later, her mother's wish to journey to the grocery store led to a progressive hysterical breakdown as she was actually forced to mention this. Luckily - as was, quite ironically, usually the case - her borderline collapse actually saved her from the shit her mother would usually put her through for a little mishap like this, as her mother couldn't tell progressive hysterical fear from a tantrum (which, ironically, was usually enacted consciously for effect - the girl was pretty good at using the "stupid kid" routine for continuous, steady-rate, managed stress)... and her mother's wish to avoid going deeper into the hassle of a tantrum signifigantly blunted the violence of her judgementalism.

Fucked up as it is, dysfunction manages to balance itself out. Equilibrium and homeostasis, folks... they may work themselves out in convoluted and fucked-up ways, but they always happen somehow.

It may sound like I'm dumping on her mother - I'm not. She didn't know what the hell to do with it, but she loved her daughter very much. I'm blaming a fucked-up society which teaches people who do care about the children in their lives that they should treat them so horribly. 'n for those who're concerned with happy endings, she did end up interacting positively with her daughter and viewing her daughter as a coequal person in her own right instead of a "kid" by the time we parted ways (she moved). People view their friends' friends differently, even when it's their own daughter. It was good to see someone who loved the same girl as I finally find the courage to follow her heart, instead of some script of what "should" be.

So... inb4...

- Mojo 'n half the female posters of &totse vicariously fall in love with me on account of their continuing girlhood.

- some kid from HB posts "you should've hit that while it was still in the 'I'll put out if you'll be my friend' phase."

- DerDrache/KoB/Carbon start talking shit & calling me a "fag" and "weak" for not taking advantage of her in the "I'll put out if you'll be my friend" phase like a "real" man.

- Jackketch looks at me funny.

- everyone else asks "wtf?", and possibly goes back to trying not to try to figure it out.

- someone asks for nude pix.

...'n just to bring it back on the topic of this thread - she was the butterface from hell, lol. (great body though)... not ugly to look at, but... painfully plain. Think "borderline-retarded english inbred peasant whose complexion is mostly determined by excema" and you've got a pretty good idea of her facial features, even if her neck and below was as hot as it gets... no ugliness, just really fuckin' plain.

She was - and is - beautiful as hell to me, though. 'n whenever I want to feel like I'm not alone in the world, in the metaphorical/metaphysical sense, I simply imagine her and remember the person she is and the time we spent together, 'n everything's just fine. :)

Cheers.

I just read every single fucking word of that ...

all of the above my gf has to be stunning

all of the above my gf has to be stunning

Haha, let's see your picture pal.

joepedo gives pedophiles a good name!

i wouldn't date a girl if i didn't find her attractive, but beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

all girls really have to do to be attractive is take pride in their appearance. stay clean, be well groomed, and keep positive about the way they feel about themselves. confidence is key in all aspects of life, especially the romantic aspect. (not always easy)

Haha, let's see your picture pal.

dont be so superficial, his standards shouldnt be tied to his physical appearance.

dont be so superficial, his standards shouldnt be tied to his physical appearance.

Yes they should. Burn girl ain't hooking up with brad pit.

dont be so superficial, his standards shouldnt be tied to his physical appearance.

Ugly people can't demand that their partners be flawless.

Ugly people can't demand that their partners be flawless.

yes they can. they might not get a flawless partner but they can refuse to settle for less.

yes they can. they might not get a flawless partner but they can refuse to settle for less.

That's being superficial. So don't tell me not to be superficial, you fucktard.

mrman is probably an ugly fuck that wants a beautiful girlfriend. Winning the lottery is your best bet.

That's being superficial. So don't tell me not to be superficial, you fucktard.

are you attracted to your partner? hes not superficial for wishing to have partners that he does not see flaws in. its a matter of opinion, everyone else may not agree with his assessment. but you are doing something different. you are basing his worth on his looks. as you see it, he may only have his standards if he is highly attractive.

Ugliness: I'm no oil painting myself, so ugliness isn't really much of an issue. I mean, a really ugly girl would be a no because let's be honest, I would actually have to look at her. But as long as I enjoyed her company and she enjoyed mine, it would be of little concern if she was classed as ugly by whoever.

Fat: As long as they aren't more than chubby, I don't care. I wouldn't date someone who is huge.

Acne: As long as there is more clear skin than acne, I don't care. I have spots from time to time so who am I to judge.

Hairy: Nah, hair is nasty on a girl. (Excluding on the top of the head, obviously) Even arm hair is a little weird.

Hygiene: Hygene doesn't really bother me that much. So long as they try to shower once a day and try their best to smell nice, then I don't really mind.

Ugliness: This is so incredibly relative, to a certain extent anyway. But I usually go for the girls who aren't ugly but also who aren't terribly good looking. (by other peoples' standards, of course) They are really good looking to me anyway. None the less, personality usually prevails. The "pretty" girls tend to have no personality whatsoever. Then again, I've met some ugly girls who had horrid personalities, but at least they even had personalities. So really I still pick and choose.

Fat: Fat usually doesn't really bother me, nor does being skinny. Unless she's so skinny that I can see all her ribs and her spleen. For me, the fat thing usually depends on the shape. There are some larger girls who, to me, are very attractive because they're proportioned correctly and their *cough*fat*cough* is free of dimples and bumps. It's when they are so fat that they get misshapen and dimpled that it bothers me.

Acne: Really doesn't matter so much to me, just as long as her face isn't bumpy and red and leaking puss. I used to get acne more, so I'm really understanding and a little bit of it here and there isn't an issue for me.

Hairy: This is where I probably differ from most of you. I don't really care about hair at all, so long as it's reasonable and not obscene. I don't care if a girl doesn't shave her legs or her crotch. I don't even care if she doesn't shave her armpits. I like a natural woman. A little peachfuzz above the lip is tolerable too. I'm really fine with hair. But when the hair is so thick that she looks like a man, then that's different.

Hygiene: I don't care too much about hygiene either. Just as long as she brushes her teeth and showers at least once within a two day period. I actually kinda find a little BO smell to be kinda sexy, but only really when she's just been running or doing something extraneous and not just from sitting on her ass. I don't give a shit about perfume. Only rarely have I found a perfume scent that I actually liked. For the most part, I find it a waste and I like real woman smell much better.

stuff
FAIL for not understanding what joe's on about ..

Wrong.

Anybody, regardless of his/her attractiveness, can demand their partner to be flawless/hot/whatever their heart desires.

Is it realistically achievable? Probably not. But are people allowed to do it? Yes.

She's not saying it as if it's against the law or something, she means that an ugly person can't expect to get an attractive partner when more attractive people are available.

Don't argue a point just for the sake of argument.

op

Ugliness:

Ugly by whose standard? If mine, then obviously I won't be attracted to him, someone who I personally find unattractive. But I think I know what you meant though, someone who's ugly by the society/your friends' standard.

Anyways, I don't need my partner to be Brad Pitt or anything, however he does have to be white. It's the way I am I cannot help it. And not just any white, he has to be visibly Germanic/Nordic.


Fat: A lil chub is fine but a fat sack of shit is intolerable. Besides, fatties tend to stink.

Acne: Again, as long as his face doesn't look like it exploded in a sea of blood and pus it's fine.

Hairy: I think hair on a guy's body can be hot. Especially if he's blonde, fuck, I'd rape the shit out of that golden furry.

Hygiene: Well I think it's reasonable to expect people to shower once everyday and brush their teeth after every meal. As long as he does that he shouldn't have any bad odour problem. Unless he's white, which he damn well better be, in which case he might have a strong natural smell about him. My brother's friend, who's a white guy, spent a night at our house. He used my brother's washroom. My mom was cleaning it the next day and she said she could still smell him after one day.

She's not saying it as if it's against the law or something, she means that an ugly person can't expect to get an attractive partner when more attractive people are available.

I have seen ugly people with attractive partners...looks aren't the sole determining factor. If an ugly person is otherwisely very confident and charismatic, I don't see why he/she wouldn't expect to have a very attractive partner.


Don't argue a point just for the sake of argument.

Are you telling me what to do?

Are you telling me what to do?

Are you the Asian girl who kind of looks like a nerdy Asian boy?

Are you the Asian girl who kind of looks like a nerdy Asian boy?

No. I am the Asian woman who kind of looks like a middle-aged Korean business man.

Do white people (in general) smell? I noticed that most asians smell of something too. I'm not sure what it is, it's just 'asian'.

It's less hard to categorize white people.

However, if you meet at least two smelly asians, you will get the idea in your head that all asians are smelly.

WAN smells good though.

When you say Asian, are you referring to the Orientals or the pakistani? Cause I know Brits' "Asian" means pakistani or something.

Anyway, only Orientals that smell are the FOBs. Fobs typically have bad hygiene. The westernised ones who tend to have good hygiene normally don't tend to smell.

I personally have not really experienced that white people smell, it's something I have heard anedoctally.

Orientals. My friend is a westernised asian (oriental) and she smells different. She's clean and everything, but it's just her. Her house and family smell the same, it's most curious

It could be that Orientals are genetically different from white people, which is why you are smelling her.

I read somewhere that smell is a very important part in mate selection too, if you like someone's smell you will tend to be attracted to him/her. And if someone smells nasty to you it's nature's way of telling you you are genetically/immunologically incompatible with him/her.

So what do white people smell like?

Dunno...like I said, I don't have personal experience. Most white people I encounter have good hygiene and I can't smell anything. But according to some people they tend to have strong natural smell.

As long as their hygiene is good I would not mind that much. They could be a little chubby or have minor acne but freakish amounts of body hair is not attractive.

Ugliness: Nothing you can do about it, so if you have charm and a good personality, it can outshine your ugly mug. Sorry to say but I personally wouldn't date even the most charming ugly women.

Weight: If you're of a healthy weight, no problem. If you're obese, sorry gal. Your weight reflects how you live. I wouldn't want to live with a girl if she can't treat her body right. Again, don't find overweight girls attractive, but I don't feel as bad as saying that about ugly girls, because weight can be changed.

Hygiene/Acne: This is the easiest to keep in check. If you can't bathe regularly and wash your face, how can you expect others to care for you? If a girl doesn't care for herself, I'm not going to care for her. Everyone gets some minor acne every once in a while, but major acne needs to be taken care of.

Hair: Some girls look really sexy with a bit of hair. I like a bit of forearm hair on a woman. Shaved armpits are definitely preferred, but if I'm going out with a girl, I'm not going to break up with her if she doesn't keep it completely bald every week.

Basically, I keep good care of myself, and if I'm going to be dating a woman, I expect her to do the same. If she doesn't care for herself, I don't care for her.

None of the 5.

Sorry I require my women to be atleast an 8.

I'd rather be single than with anyone who has any of the aforementioned physical flaws, other than perhaps a minor amount of acne. I talked with a girl the other day who had a moderate amount of acne, but was still quite attractive.

No fat chicks. sorry to be blunt but I loves me skinny chicks

I have a problem with someone being taller than me

hygiene... don't know if that counts as physical, but bitch best shower, brush her teeth, all of that lol

Instead... he quit while he was... umm... less behind. Which takes away a bit of my lulz, but it's probably for the best.

Guess it teaches me about the long game. Ah, well. I've still got a lot of posts to catch up on. Including one still thanks to Danny, in which I discuss, well... mind, molecules, and what real moral dilemnas look like. ;)


For starters, it's 'dilemma'.

Secondly, notice how nobody thinks your argument is strong? I didn't quit while I was, 'less behind'; I got sick of arguing with an idiot.

chichi has some fucking low standards then....

This thread has stopped being what chichi intended. I am moving the off-topic posts to another thread

People to argue with JoePedo or make comments about that argument are to post them in the following thread, not here

http://www.totse.com/community/showthread.php?t=2174222

Ugliness: wouldn't be horrible if everything else was good. If anything it would make me look better by comparison. Not a deal breaker but somewhat problematic

Fat: I don't like anorexically skinny but I don't want fat either. I'll take chubby, thats fine (again, as long as everything else is good) but I can't handle obese. Extremely fat people make me feel slightly ill. Sorry, thats just how it is.

Acne: We all go through it. As long as its not pussy and deforming its ok.

Hairy: A shave would be nice. The only things I require though are clean armpits and at least a trim on the bush

Hygiene: I don't mind "earthy" but if I can smell your breath all the time or you have pungent b.o. its not gonna work out

This. The only thing that would bother me is ugly feet.