One of the fundamentals of drugs i think is the ability to tap into the sub/unconscious, and the idea that ultimately it is all derived from you, and they are just unlocking inhibited aspects of you( particularly, deleriants, dissociatives, psychedelics) is marvelous. And i wonder how similar the process is to dreaming.

Clearly the divide between a good trip and bad trip seems similar to a nightmare or dream. The altered state of consciousness is also present, and although it has that hazey, out of control, 3rd person perspective to it REM sleep is in many ways a highly conscious state, what i want to focus on is lucid dreams.

Everyone has dreams, but not everyone has lucid dreams.

Do you think the ability to be lucid within dreams, and learn from them will mean better living through dreaming, and this can be a preparation for psychoactive's or they can potentiate and amalgamate with each other in some way?

For example sleep paralysis is a scary and fearful event, much like a "bad" visual/hallucination; but often there are things to be learnt from like the ability to distinguish reality from artificial reality (perhaps spritual nature from material nature).

Edit: It seems deleriants have the most in common with dreams

Are you actually asking a question or stating facts/opinions?

He's asking for people's opinions on the subject of "Dreaming and Intoxicants." A lot of decent threads are destroyed by stupid shit like this. Are you asking a question?

Though I generally agree with your interpretation I think you're asking the wrong questions. Not that there is a 'more' correct question to ask given the circumstances.

While being able to manifest your creative process through lucid panoramic distortions is fun, the ambiguous nature of certain experiences is a huge detriment to any 'progressive' potential, as you must choose where to draw the circle.

I have too often seen people, myself included, migrate to a level of self-induced neurosis far removed from anything they think they could imagine.

It's somewhat relevant to mention that you must ground yourself in preparation for the event that you suddenly find your wings no longer generate lift due to the discontinued pulsing of your hearth and you begin to hum through your airs with an increasing velocity determined to wrap yourself around a large spherical wall.

My opinion on the whole thing is just as ambiguous, as there are certain models of belief which clearly imply that interaction (unwitting or otherwise) with the subconscious and pre-contemporary religious experience are only differentiated by being back in 'your' body.

Do you think the ability to be lucid within dreams, and learn from them will mean better living through dreaming, and this can be a preparation for psychoactive's or they can potentiate and amalgamate with each other in some way?

umm, a question mark should be a good indicator that im asking a question!

be more constructive with your feedback.

Too moonius, thanks for the awesome reply.

Lucidity is something that can remove the ambiguity of dreams, the awareness means clarity.

Lucid dreaming is just awesome in and of itself, theories developed on cool shit like collective dreams ( shared consciousness).

In a way shared consciousness is already manifested in the material world, someone communicates their view and you come to understand their view (conscious) and developed a shared viewpoint. In a way this is just a metaphysical extension of it, but it is in some ways an abnormal form.

It takes a dis inhibited mind to truely contemplate that, which is something you can achieve through chemistry, and i suppose this is a way of drugs potentiating dreams?

I get what your saying about being able to tap into your subconscious. When I'm high or on a psychedelic I can read people perfect by their body language and what not. Its pretty crazy but you read people subconsciously so thats makes sense to me.

I have always noticed that when I go to sleep drunk I have the best dreams. It could be described as a lucid dream I guess because I'm there I feel everything shit is crazy and its awesome.

Question though, how can you get yourself to have lucid dreams. I have tried that stupid little ask yourself if your dreaming throughout the day so you will when your dreaming, but that didn't work for shit :/

Damn I agree with you on the reading people's body language. it's like shit you would never pick up on. for example, i was at school and this loser, douchebag kid was walking around on his cell phone, but not saying shit. then i realized he had no friends and was just trying to be cool.

plus yea, drunk dreams are awesome, friday night i dreamt about fucking this girl i think is hot, getting a shit load of xanax for free, and getting into harvard. all on the same night and all super realistic. you can imagine the disappointment when i woke up for work with a broken ankle, pussyless and hungover.

I've found that I have certain dreams that kind of remind me of smoking some weed and while you're high you think you've discovered all these insane ideas and stuff, but later you're either like, "I'm retarded", or, "So?". These dreams are like cool but then I wake up and think about it and it just doesn't have any impact on me. But then, I have some dreams that are really clear and vivid, and when I wake up I think about it, and it literally affects me and how I act, almost like I had a good acid trip.

I'm not sure if you already knew this, but look up dreams and the release of DMT in your brain. That could possibly relate to the similarity between dreaming and tripping.

But also, I'd like to say, that I really do think that certain dreams can help "unlock" some of your sub-concious thoughts/desires/feelings etc. I do however feel that some dreams are just simply replaying things that happened that day.

But also, I've had dreams that were like premonitions in a jigsaw puzzle form. Very weird shit. Then picking apart those dreams while tripping was very intense and revealing. But these premonition type dreams really interested me, because I've had quite a few in my lifetime. What causes it? Some people might say that it's just something really general and abstract that you can make it into almost anything, but it's wayyy different than that for me.

I really do believe that there is more to reality than meets the eye through my experience with psychedelics and such, but it's hard to come to terms with it and figure out what all of it is. Your trip's telling you to not be just another sheep in the herd, but to find your own path, but yet you realize that there's a spiritual aspect to life, but it's hard to decide later whether or not you feel like there must be something "bigger" out there (I get this on some of my trips, I don't feel like this normally though) just simply because you were raised a christian (I'm talking about myself and how everyone in my family is a self proclaimed devout christian, though they don't follow it very well.) But I realize that i'm pretty much just rambling now off topic, but yea, very interesting subject, more in-depth subject than I thought, the title is somewhat misleading, heh.

there is no such thing as a subconscious or an unconscious

"Over-thinking, over-analyzing,
separates the body from the mind"?

Are you suggesting that there's only one state of consciousness? I'm not disagreeing with you, just wonder, but then again you might just be being sarcastic. But whatever, that idea is at least a little bit interesting if you compare it to the idea of there being no difference between body, mind, and soul, because there is only the body (mind being the brain, being the body, and soul a hypothetic mystical non-existent thing).

"Over-mind"?


I would like to hear your argument for the existence of free will.

how about inhibited and dis inhibited?

"Over-thinking, over-analyzing,
separates the body from the mind"?

Are you suggesting that there's only one state of consciousness? I'm not disagreeing with you, just wonder, but then again you might just be being sarcastic. But whatever, that idea is at least a little bit interesting if you compare it to the idea of there being no difference between body, mind, and soul, because there is only the body (mind being the brain, being the body, and soul a hypothetic mystical non-existent thing).

what separates anything from anything else?

what separates anything from anything else?

I was thinking about this before. Like the whole idea that our body is just an INSANE amount of atoms clustered together, so when we touch something, it's kind of the same idea if you get what I'm saying. This then meaning that we're all one being or whatever, and that when we interact with something we "become" that thing.

I honestly don't like dreaming.... for the year i smoked weed just about every day i had maybe 2 dreams that i remembered..... Then i stopped, and now im dreaming on a regular basis.... Most of them are strange, but in a way i find myself wondering what is real and what is not....

One night when i had ingested no drugs whatsoever i ended up waking up or at least i think i might have woken up, and i felt like i was tripping hard, it was pure madness despite being sober.... I eventually fought myself to sleep and woke up wondering what the fuck happened. It seemed too vivid to be a dream, but then again i have had dreams that were hard to distinguish from reality on a rare occasion...

I have had 2 fully lucid dreams in my life. But most of the time i am not aware of dreaming...