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Laboratory Tips Safety proceedures, test reagents, drilling rubber stoppers, bending glass tubes, etc. Contributed to by chemists.

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 #1 
Old 2008-10-29, 16:33
Fra Fra is offline
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Default Nitrous Generator Idea

Hi all, I'm trying to design a safe and working nitrous generator to have fun with my friends. After studying some chemist and researching about home made N2O, I have finally made a first project(second, actually). here is it:
http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/6315/nitrousgeneratorps4.png

Well, it's pretty simple: an alcohol burner heat up some ammonium nitrate(5-10g, technical grade from instant ice) to about 240°(hopefully). The result gas passes through a vinyl tube to a bottle whit cold water inside, which will filter it. then it is collected into a balloon.
My 2 main fears:
1)NO2- as far as I know, it has a brownish color, so if the mixture is over heated and this compound is formed, I should notice that. However, it's still the most dangerous thing. how can I 100% neutralize it even if it's formed?
2)Explosions- explosions are funny only if controlled. I had fun with explosives and I can say that Ammonium nitrate is really stable- even if you merge it with fuel oil and you detonate tatp inside it, it might not explode. However, it's a danger. How can I avoid it?
Thanks all for reading, please reply and help me!
PS
sorry for my bad english
 #2 
Old 2008-10-29, 18:02
fox fox is offline
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Default Re: Nitrous Generator Idea

Heating AN making it alot more likely to explode.

You need to add a base to the water.

I would get an air pump to pressurize the N2O.
 #3 
Old 2008-10-29, 18:07
Kbasa Kbasa is offline
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Default Re: Nitrous Generator Idea

you should ask in lab tips, they probably have better knowledge than anyone else here.
 #4 
Old 2008-10-29, 18:10
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Default Re: Nitrous Generator Idea

That sounds pretty difficult for some nitrous.

The only thing I could think of to make it safer is to find a way to apply the heat at a consistent, stable temperature. I think ~200 Fahrenheit is what is usually used for this.
 #5 
Old 2008-10-29, 18:45
Fra Fra is offline
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Default Re: Nitrous Generator Idea

@fox
do you think I should add sodium hydroxide to ammonium nitrate? and what about pressurization? As high is the pressure, as possible is an explosion- so I'd keep pressure as low as possible.
@Kbasa What 'lab tips' is?
@Dead1Head
I know I should keep a stable temperature, but when Ammonium nitrate decomposes it generates heat(it's an exothermic reatinon) so it would be pretty difficult to keep the whole thing at the right temperature. However I'm Thinking about using a flatiron for heating.
EDIT
I found this: http://mattson.creighton.edu/N2O/index.html it looks interesting I like water boiling method.
 #6 
Old 2008-10-29, 19:51
Moderator
 
Facedown in the shag rug.
Default Re: Nitrous Generator Idea

Moving to Lab Tips.
 #7 
Old 2008-10-29, 21:40
hydroponichronic hydroponichronic is offline
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Default Re: Nitrous Generator Idea

Listen to the smart people:
http://www.totse.com/community/showthread.php?t=2120181&highlight=Nitrous+Oxide
http://www.totse.com/community/showthread.php?t=2140550&highlight=Nitrous+Oxide

And use this method: http://i27.tinypic.com/vdnyv.jpg
The HCl decomps the AN aqueously, so guaranteed no explosion!!!
O, and I think credit for this one goes to spl1ff. Should give it a shot soon...

While this is up, if one just has AC sitting around (for to refill fishtank filters) could it just be packed into a column to act as the brita?
 #8 
Old 2008-10-30, 00:48
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Default Re: Nitrous Generator Idea

do you think I should add sodium hydroxide to ammonium nitrate?

Do you enjoy breathing an ammonia atmosphere?
 #9 
Old 2008-10-30, 01:42
FullMetalJacket FullMetalJacket is offline
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Default Re: Nitrous Generator Idea

Either reflux in HCl or a solution of zinc II chloride.
 #10 
Old 2008-10-30, 03:16
hydroponichronic hydroponichronic is offline
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Default Re: Nitrous Generator Idea

Do you enjoy breathing an ammonia atmosphere?

^^^this. I'm surprised I didn't catch that. lol. Alkali metal hydroxide + Ammonium compound = NH3 gas, and lots of it. Good for certain things, but bad if your aim is N2O.
 #11 
Old 2008-10-30, 14:06
Fra Fra is offline
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Default Re: Nitrous Generator Idea

Quote:
Originally Posted by hydroponichronic
Listen to the smart people:
http://www.totse.com/community/showthread.php?t=2120181&highlight=Nitrous+Oxide
http://www.totse.com/community/showthread.php?t=2140550&highlight=Nitrous+Oxide

And use this method: http://i27.tinypic.com/vdnyv.jpg
The HCl decomps the AN aqueously, so guaranteed no explosion!!!
O, and I think credit for this one goes to spl1ff. Should give it a shot soon...

While this is up, if one just has AC sitting around (for to refill fishtank filters) could it just be packed into a column to act as the brita?

thank you, that's what I was looking for! do you know where I can buy a brita filter? I found on the web a list of shops.. can I find them there? how much is a filter, and how long does it last?
 #12 
Old 2008-10-30, 14:35
Von Bass Von Bass is offline
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Default Re: Nitrous Generator Idea

thank you, that's what I was looking for! do you know where I can buy a brita filter? I found on the web a list of shops.. can I find them there? how much is a filter, and how long does it last?

Its just working as the activated charcoal, which is an excellent scrubber chemical, one that is good at removing impurities from a system. There are plenty of sources of activated charcoal, wine makers use them to clean up yeasty brews, fishtanks often have an activated charcoal column, and yes, Brita water filters use an activated charcoal pad which could be perfectly used.

Sorry if any of that could be seen as patronising, I'm not trying to be and I'm guessing English isn't your first language. :)
 #13 
Old 2008-10-30, 15:23
Fra Fra is offline
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Default Re: Nitrous Generator Idea

if I found activated charcoal, could I put it into a pipe and use it as filter? brita filters are too expensive, 20€ for 3-box. I'm thinking about the whole project an now I'd use a round-bottom flask(300ml, how much could it cost?) to put the AN-HCl mixture and 2 clean wine bottles with their stopper as filter; between them I'd put the active carbon filter built by myself. in the end a balloon. everything connected with vinyl tubing. What do you think?
 #14 
Old 2008-11-09, 02:19
spl1ff spl1ff is offline
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Default Re: Nitrous Generator Idea

Quote:
Originally Posted by hydroponichronic
Listen to the smart people:
http://www.totse.com/community/showthread.php?t=2120181&highlight=Nitrous+Oxide
http://www.totse.com/community/showthread.php?t=2140550&highlight=Nitrous+Oxide

And use this method: http://i27.tinypic.com/vdnyv.jpg
The HCl decomps the AN aqueously, so guaranteed no explosion!!!
O, and I think credit for this one goes to spl1ff. Should give it a shot soon...

While this is up, if one just has AC sitting around (for to refill fishtank filters) could it just be packed into a column to act as the brita?


thank you sir. while the diagram is mine, the concept of the AN reflux in HCL was dreamt up by FullMetalJacket. and i do believe it is the best setup for this process.

citing sources, 'tis a scholarly duty.
 #15 
Old 2008-11-09, 15:58
stateofhack stateofhack is offline
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Default Re: Nitrous Generator Idea

Do you enjoy breathing an ammonia atmosphere?

Is it a trick question?
 #16 
Old 2008-11-11, 00:00
fretbuzz fretbuzz is offline
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Default Re: Nitrous Generator Idea

I thought N2O dissolves into cold water easier than hot water.
 #17 
Old 2008-11-16, 01:12
Ene Ene is offline
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Default Re: Nitrous Generator Idea

You should make a set up like the one in this video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TGDNm3ENnf8
 #18 
Old 2008-11-16, 03:42
stateofhack stateofhack is offline
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Default Re: Nitrous Generator Idea

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ene
You should make a set up like the one in this video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TGDNm3ENnf8


no more driking
 #19 
Old 2008-11-17, 02:25
FullMetalJacket FullMetalJacket is offline
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Default Re: Nitrous Generator Idea

Quote:
Originally Posted by fretbuzz
I thought N2O dissolves into cold water easier than hot water.


And non-polar substances a lot easier then polar substances.
 #20 
Old 2008-11-17, 08:28
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run while you can ----->
Default Re: Nitrous Generator Idea

Do you enjoy breathing an ammonia atmosphere?

:o

Shortest post by JP ever....
 #21 
Old 2008-11-17, 19:38
Von Bass Von Bass is offline
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Default Re: Nitrous Generator Idea

:o

Shortest post by JP ever....

And I'm damn confused! Does he mean specifically in the case of using the NaOH solution to bubble through, or, as Fra seemed to be suggesting, with the ammonium nitrate and HCl?

If its going to break down under NaOH, I imagine it doesn't make much a difference where it bubbles through, but I'll have to search for some other scrubbing method.
 #22 
Old 2008-11-25, 23:58
ingutted ingutted is offline
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Default Re: Nitrous Generator Idea

thank you sir. while the diagram is mine, the concept of the AN reflux in HCL was dreamt up by FullMetalJacket. and i do believe it is the best setup for this process.

citing sources, 'tis a scholarly duty.

so have you done this? im contemplating setting up something like this but i would like to know any dangers as far as explosions.
 
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