As you may or may not know, I'm an opiate addict. I've been taking them almost daily for six or seven years now. If I don't take any for a day, I go into withdrawls. If I saved up for two weeks, I go get on suboxone, but its impossible for me to have any money and not take pills.

Is there anything I can do to do drown away the physical symptoms so I can concentrate on other things? I think that if I get past the WDs, I can withstand the urges.

When I feel like I need to groove, should I just get drunk or something? Would something like Kava help me?

Tips/Advice?

Take some hallucinogens.

easy man. heres an idea, taper with your poison. i mean, you can afford to get high each day right, so you could afford to use less each day....


if you can do that the mental parts a walk in the park...



but i'm guessing thats a pipe dream. a good trip helps but isn't needed. the getting drunk idea isn't the best. try to smoke some pot and munch some valium. well not pot if you don't normally smoke pot...

you can afford to get high each day right, so you could afford to use less each day....






but i'm guessing thats a pipe dream.

cus it doesn't make sense?

cus it doesn't make sense?

How does tapering not make sense?

*sigh*....tapering is much easier said than done.

exactly

It does depend on your will power and it really helps to have a good friend help you - one who will be strong enough to not give in and give you something before it's time, but one who can see if you're really in enough discomfort to give if needed. And above all one who will put up with it all to help you.

I smoked heroin for 15 years. I quit twice. Both times by tapering off.

The first time I had a friend help me. I picked up so many grams and made her a chart. Each time she gave me some to smoke, it weighed a little less than the one before it and the time between got longer and longer [and if she wasn't able to be around when it was time for the next dose, she would weigh it out ahead of time, hide it, then phone in the location to me when it was time. And no, I didn't go searching for it. If I didn't have at least that much self control the whole thing would have been pointless].

It took around 2 weeks and by the last foil I really didn't need it, but smoked it anyway. I would have stayed off too but for the fact that the pain was still there. But mostly it was that I stayed in the the same area I had been living in and still saw many of the same people and so within months I was back on it.

The second time I did it by myself. Due to a fire in my apartment I had to move so I decided to move further north - 60 miles north - where I couldn't get he unless I drove to Oakland. I bought 8 grams I think it was, and what I did was smoke as I normally would. But I would not quite kill off the foil - I would leave some on there - and saved the foils. When I got to the last 2 grams I started to taper off. Then, when the H was all gone, I would switch to the foils.

I would give myself a time when I would allow myself the next foil and then I would go as far past that time as I could; waiting until I got to the point where I didn't want to feel that bad anymore. By the time I was on the last foil I was once again free of the addiction.

Within 6 months I was able to find a Dr who would give me real pain meds. So the pain was no longer an issue and neither was being around the place and people I did heroin with [yes I ended that sentence with a preposition] so It was easy, so to speak - to stay off.

Of course, one thing about being on - and addicted to - morphine is that I could mess with heroin and not worry about getting addicted again since I was already addicted to opiates. So for a while I would go to Oakland and get 2 grams or so, every three or 4 months because there was still - and always will be - that mental pull that heroin has on me. But about 3 years ago that dropped off enough where I no longer went to Oakland. And I haven't touched it since.

Though when I do have to go through Oakland I still feel that pull and so I try my best to stay away from there.

I smoked heroin for 15 years.

I think everyone knows by now ;).

Timmay!

Stock up on marijuana and a shitload of benzos and cold turkey that bitch. For the first few days your not going to do anything but pop valiums/xanax and smoke bud and feel like absolute death, but as the physical symptoms go away get something to occupy you; get out of your house, exericise, play video games; anything that you do that makes you happy that doesnt relate to opiates. When your physical symptoms are gone, delete all your dealers numbers from your phone. It may not be a big deal to some, but when your poison is just a phone calll away you become alot less inclined to actually go looking for it when you dont have it at the ready

Take some hallucinogens.

This is horrible advice.

I would say go on the suboxone. That is what I am doing. I have a appt. on tuesday. The reason I finally decided to go on sub is becaus ei have tried to quit atleast 10 times now cold turkey. by doing exactly what you are asking, I smoked a lot of weed, took benzos, and drank away the withdrawal. I found myself worse off than if I were to use opiates.

Another way to drown out the withdrawal is constantly staying busy and keeping th mind occupied. This may work for some but most cant do shit when they are withdrawing.

If you think you can handle staying away once you go through withdrawal then try but if it doesnt work suboxone may be for you. i would go through w/d and tell myself i would never let myself go through it again only to repeat it multiple times.

go to your doc and get clonidine and something short term for sleep. Eat good meals even if your not hungry and take a multivitamin,flaxseed oil, and fishoil. There is no way to completely drown them out with out taking more opiate agonists or a partial agonist like bupe.

This last time I quit methadone and was doing good, making it to almost a month and a half clean and then I relapsed and I had enough. I have the finances to go on sub. It costs me 200 for the initial visit and 100 per month after that + the meds.
i am willing to pay this much money because it is a fraction of what I would need to maintain on street opiates. I spent more in a week on weed than I would on a month of suboxone and I wasnt feeling much better after a month(PAWS). And I was starting to just get dependant on alcohol to feel better. I would only drink once a day in the evening but i found myself needing to drink earlier and earlier. i was also shakey in the morning.


Meta I know it worked for you. someone with alot of willpower in general may not have the will power to keep from getting high and maintain instead like you did. the mind has has an amazing way of convincing the addict to just get high. tapering will not work for an addict. The urge to get high is to great when the addict has enough to get high. Someone who is dependant but does not have the addictive compulsions like most get may be able to do it.

Weed and booze will help, but don't get benzos. The addiction can kind of jump between the two. I don't know what suboxone is, but DO NOT go on methadone. I does more harm than good. If your going to cold turkey, the best way to do it is at a friends or with a friend with you. The support and company is good to have. Good luck man.

I think everyone knows by now ;).

what he said

Meta, that was the exact method you told me you used- and its what im trying to do now to get off of it. I even did the chart for each day. Ive tried to find someone to dole it out to me, but theres no one whos really here that often. So it a hell of a lot harder. Im down to a little less than a balloon a day (.4 or so) but like one of the previous posters said, the mind of an addict will do anything to convince you to do more. Im trying to practice telling myself when enough is enough- take 7 or 8 hits to be okay, then PUT IT AWAY. Its a slow process, but im at the point where I realize I either need to quit, or im going to end up killing myself. I dont mean killing myself with drugs- i mean that the toll that this whole thing has on my relationships, my bank account, my psyche- is going to cause me to take my own life if I dont fix this. I used to be horrified of needles, but even that doesnt bother me now.

I give you major props for doing that for 15 years and having the willpower to do that man. Im doing NA meetings now (I feel like a narc) just to help with the mindset, but it doesnt help that my beliefs aren't entirely against drugs. I think youd be a good sponsor, except that Im pretty sure you have to be drug free :D

Anyway- it really does help to have a friend to keep you in line. Especially right now im needing a safety net. Theres no worse feeling that being already dopesick at 2 in the morning, with 9 hours to go until you can cop, and not a dollar in your wallet to do it with...

But those nights when im having a lot of trouble- Ive noticed that music actually helps a lot. If you can sleep-DO IT. But for me, when i hear a song i really dig, I get this tingle down my spine, and a kind of energy that I can only describe as a natural kind of withdrawal-buffer. I'd say that feeling takes away a good 50% of the pain and discomfort. But then again anything is better than sitting there sweating and throwing up- THINKING about swaeting and hurting and throwing up.

I hope you get through this soon too. Good luck man.
If you have any questions or anything:

intoxicatedredneck@yahoo.com
trev088 on AIM


CaspeR

Meta, that was the exact method you told me you used- and its what im trying to do now to get off of it. I even did the chart for each day. Ive tried to find someone to dole it out to me, but theres no one whos really here that often. So it a hell of a lot harder. Im down to a little less than a balloon a day (.4 or so) but like one of the previous posters said, the mind of an addict will do anything to convince you to do more. Im trying to practice telling myself when enough is enough- take 7 or 8 hits to be okay, then PUT IT AWAY. Its a slow process, but im at the point where I realize I either need to quit, or im going to end up killing myself. I dont mean killing myself with drugs- i mean that the toll that this whole thing has on my relationships, my bank account, my psyche- is going to cause me to take my own life if I dont fix this. I used to be horrified of needles, but even that doesnt bother me now.




CaspeR

Bro I found h to be the worst to try and control. It is so addictive. I will be nodding my ass off and have some left and i just keep on smoking it until its gone.

Bro I found h to be the worst to try and control. It is so addictive. I will be nodding my ass off and have some left and i just keep on smoking it until its gone.

Yeah Im kinda in that situation. Save for the fact that im starting to HATE that fucking feeling. When theres no pussy here to relentlessly tear into, i just end up sleeping...all...fucking...day. So at least i dont really enjoy it anymore. Its just my brain telling me to go apeshit.

Looks like its time for my "dose".


CaspeR

Update on my sub appointment:

i went in today and told her my use history and talked to her for about an hour. My mom was with me and because of that the doc is allowing me to do my induction at home.It also helps that my mom is an rn. I have a script for 6 clonidine and 6 phonbarbs for tonight and tomarrow while I wait to start the induction. I even told her how i have done suboxone before and it worked for me(illicitly) and she explained why my short taper plan I had used may have not been the best thing for me. So i am going to go on maintenance and start a very slow and prolonged taper after a year of maintenance dosing.

I am very pleased and i would encourage others to do the same if you have had an on going problem with , aaddict,dependence , quitting, and relapsing.

that was a good and sensible way to go about thing. good luck, hope it works out for you.

that was a good and sensible way to go about thing. good luck, hope it works out for you.

Thank you. She was also ammazed that 2mgs and day held me over when i used it. She said someone with my habit (45mgs of oc/day or 60mgs mscontin/day) would usually need 16mgs a day. i also mentioned I had been smoking pot todeal with the cold turkey withdrawal and it did not phase her at all.

Phenobarb is weak but its better than nothing.

Thank you. She was also ammazed that 2mgs and day held me over when i used it. She said someone with my habit (45mgs of oc/day or 60mgs mscontin/day) would usually need 16mgs a day. i also mentioned I had been smoking pot todeal with the cold turkey withdrawal and it did not phase her at all.

Phenobarb is weak but its better than nothing.

Hahhaa and you bought that? 45 mgs of oc is so little, you would never need more than 4 mg of suboxone for that. But you're just going to listen to everything she says, aren't you? 16 mgs would get someone with a daily dose of what you mentioned on their ass nodding. You're obviously getting taken for your money, and you love it!

They're going to tell you that a short taper program doesn't work because they want you to be on suboxone as long as possible; they make more money that way.

Oh and they don't really care if you get better fyi; it is a business. That's also why they don't give a shit if you smoke weed, pop benzos, or do any other kind of drug. Their job is to be able to legally diagnose you as needing suboxone and then sit around raking in money until you either quit the program and relapse, or "are better", which will happen, eventually ;). Not to mention they don't care if you relapse as long as you come back.

What is it with people thinking that in a cold world such as this, that there are companies/institutions that are just so magnanimous that they want to help you and get nothing in return? Maybe there are some people like that but if it's a clinic, they want your money, and will do some unethical things, such as putting you on a long ass program rather than getting you clean as quickly as they could.

Hahhaa and you bought that? 45 mgs of oc is so little, you would never need more than 4 mg of suboxone for that. But you're just going to listen to everything she says, aren't you? 16 mgs would get someone with a daily dose of what you mentioned on their ass nodding. You're obviously getting taken for your money, and you love it!

They're going to tell you that a short taper program doesn't work because they want you to be on suboxone as long as possible; they make more money that way.

Oh and they don't really care if you get better fyi; it is a business. That's also why they don't give a shit if you smoke weed, pop benzos, or do any other kind of drug. Their job is to be able to legally diagnose you as needing suboxone and then sit around raking in money until you either quit the program and relapse, or "are better", which will happen, eventually ;). Not to mention they don't care if you relapse as long as you come back.

What is it with people thinking that in a cold world such as this, that there are companies/institutions that are just so magnanimous that they want to help you and get nothing in return? Maybe there are some people like that but if it's a clinic, they want your money, and will do some unethical things, such as putting you on a long ass program rather than getting you clean as quickly as they could.
You moron she didnt try to push 16mgs a day on me. She just told me in her experience what they usually need. She also stated that she would do it over the phone as much as possible to save me money. She encouraged me to stay with 2-4mgs if i can. She only maks money for the appointment she doesnt make money for the pills. This is a private office not a clinic.
i would rather pay 100$ per month for a office visit and 150$ month for the pills than pay 1000$ a month to maintain on street opiates.

I dont give a fuck if she makes money. Just like I didnt care if my dd made a little on the side. This is capitalism buddy. If your commie ass doesnt like it go find a new country.

Hahhaa and you bought that? 45 mgs of oc is so little, you would never need more than 4 mg of suboxone for that. But you're just going to listen to everything she says, aren't you? 16 mgs would get someone with a daily dose of what you mentioned on their ass nodding. You're obviously getting taken for your money, and you love it!

They're going to tell you that a short taper program doesn't work because they want you to be on suboxone as long as possible; they make more money that way.

Oh and they don't really care if you get better fyi; it is a business. That's also why they don't give a shit if you smoke weed, pop benzos, or do any other kind of drug. Their job is to be able to legally diagnose you as needing suboxone and then sit around raking in money until you either quit the program and relapse, or "are better", which will happen, eventually ;). Not to mention they don't care if you relapse as long as you come back.

What is it with people thinking that in a cold world such as this, that there are companies/institutions that are just so magnanimous that they want to help you and get nothing in return? Maybe there are some people like that but if it's a clinic, they want your money, and will do some unethical things, such as putting you on a long ass program rather than getting you clean as quickly as they could.

This is so true. My suboxone doctor prescribed me 32mg a day, my daily habit at the time was around 200mg OC which was a low point in my habit. The medicine had me nodding so hard and throwing up so much that I asked the doctor if we could lower the dose. She said no, that I had to keep on with the plan. I literally could not function and she wanted me to keep taking that amount, regardless of how I felt.

It was clear that they just wanted me to take as much as possible and to keep milking my bank account dry. What was worse is that my mom insisted I keep taking my dose as prescribed or not take it at all (I was 16 at the time). The whole thing just helped me get clean for a little while, but I could not maintain 32mg a day and keep up with school and work.

Be smart and do your research before you just accept what your doc says as fact. I'm going to school for nursing now and really see a lot of bullshit that was going on at that facility.

I never said that I was against capitalism, or even that you shouldn't take suboxone. I was saying not to believe that they're in it for your best interest, because they aren't. They want you to keep taking suboxone and paying them, not for you to get clean.

Get some suboxone, even if you have to get it from that place. But don't actually follow their plan, just use it to get yourself clean. Also, learn to read and stop being a jackass. Not once did I diss you, yet you're so quick to attack me for no reason. Look at the post above and tell me I was wrong.

This is so true. My suboxone doctor prescribed me 32mg a day, my daily habit at the time was around 200mg OC which was a low point in my habit. The medicine had me nodding so hard and throwing up so much that I asked the doctor if we could lower the dose. She said no, that I had to keep on with the plan. I literally could not function and she wanted me to keep taking that amount, regardless of how I felt.

It was clear that they just wanted me to take as much as possible and to keep milking my bank account dry. What was worse is that my mom insisted I keep taking my dose as prescribed or not take it at all (I was 16 at the time). The whole thing just helped me get clean for a little while, but I could not maintain 32mg a day and keep up with school and work.

Be smart and do your research before you just accept what your doc says as fact. I'm going to school for nursing now and really see a lot of bullshit that was going on at that facility.

Like I said she was encouraging me to stay at the 2mgs that worked for me before when i used the sub illicitly. She just said what people usually have required in her experience. That was not the highest point of my habits. I have used up to a gram of black tar(smoked) in a day. That was my habit after I quit using 50mgs of methadone per day for a month and a half. Then i started back up at 45 mgs/day of oxy and then after I ran out of that i used 60mg/day of morphine.

I never said that I was against capitalism, or even that you shouldn't take suboxone. I was saying not to believe that they're in it for your best interest, because they aren't. They want you to keep taking suboxone and paying them, not for you to get clean.

Get some suboxone, even if you have to get it from that place. But don't actually follow their plan, just use it to get yourself clean. Also, learn to read and stop being a jackass. Not once did I diss you, yet you're so quick to attack me for no reason. Look at the post above and tell me I was wrong.
dude I have been there and done that. i have "used suboxone to get clean" and it didn't work for me. i used it for a month and then did a 21 day taper and was clean for 9 days and then relapsed. That is why i need to be on maintainence because I have have quit and relapsed so many times.(too many to count)
Being on maintainence just buys me time to work out the underlying issues that i may have.
And dude you obviously didn't read what i said hence why I called you a moron. Your interpetation of what I originally said was completely wrong. You made it sound like she was tryting to push 16mgs per day on me which she wasn't. That guys doc may have been a douche bag but this lady was not. If she was just in it for the money dont you think since her being a psychiatrist she would have tried to get me to pay for counceling also? Don't you think she would say I have to abosolutly come in for every appointment once per month which is 100$. She said I can talk to her over the phone free of charge and skip office appoinments to save my money.

You cant sit there and stereotype a doctor you don't know. You cant say that every doctor is in it for the money. She is a psychiatrist, even without sub patients she is going to make great money eitherway. They get paid by the hour and it aint cheap.

Like I said she was encouraging me to stay at the 2mgs that worked for me before when i used the sub illicitly. She just said what people usually have required in her experience. That was not the highest point of my habits. I have used up to a gram of black tar(smoked) in a day. That was my habit after I quit using 50mgs of methadone per day for a month and a half. Then i started back up at 45 mgs/day of oxy and then after I ran out of that i used 60mg/day of morphine.


dude I have been there and done that. i have "used suboxone to get clean" and it didn't work for me. i used it for a month and then did a 21 day taper and was clean for 9 days and then relapsed. That is why i need to be on maintainence because I have have quit and relapsed so many times.(too many to count)
Being on maintainence just buys me time to work out the underlying issues that i may have.
And dude you obviously didn't read what i said hence why I called you a moron. Your interpetation of what I originally said was completely wrong. You made it sound like she was tryting to push 16mgs per day on me which she wasn't. That guys doc may have been a douche bag but this lady was not. If she was just in it for the money dont you think since her being a psychiatrist she would have tried to get me to pay for counceling also? Don't you think she would say I have to abosolutly come in for every appointment once per month which is 100$. She said I can talk to her over the phone free of charge and skip office appoinments to save my money.

You cant sit there and stereotype a doctor you don't know. You cant say that every doctor is in it for the money. She is a psychiatrist, even without sub patients she is going to make great money either. They get paid by the hour and it aint cheap.

Best of luck brother

Best of luck brother

Thannks appreciate it, sorry for the hijack squeegee. I didnt want to make a big argument out of it just wantd to update.

fuck it man. I got over it, with the help of rehab and sex.

maybe joining a fraternity and alcohol too

rush spring 2k9