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Money Money Money... Finances, money, investing, saving, getting a job, anything to do with the green stuff that makes the world go around.

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  #1   Add Zay to your ignore list  
Old 2008-10-18, 19:56
Zay Zay is online now
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Exclamation THE money thread.

This forum needs a solid discussion on money. Something other than how to make 1000 dollars in a week without working or doing something illegal. It's not about what job you should get or what to invest in. It's just about basic money principles that schools and parents should teach.

There are many university graduates whose debt exceeds their income their whole life, and there are thousands people that never went to college who uphold the principles of working hard and saving their whole life. My personal belief is that ignorance is the leading cause of poverty. If your parents are bad at managing money, and you never hit the right classes, or read the right books, you’ll always be at the mercy of your environment. You may very well still be successful by having marketable traits, but these are some principles that can benefit you regardless. There are countless books, blogs, and websites concerning money. There is no excuse to bury your head in the sand when it comes to money. My own belief is that getting as money people into the loop, a culture of saving vs consumer whoreism, has the most benefit for society. Right now we’re seeing that living on excess credit is unsustainable. A lot of people accumulate tons of material objects quick, manufacturers make quick buck, creditors make a quick buck, builders make a quick buck, but in the end the bubble bursts and everyone gets pwned. So, draw your own conclusions. If you feel responsible saving and spending is right for you, try to advise as many people as possible. If you see that your best friend, your sibling, or your mom(as in my case) is a reckless spender, give them some advice.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DerDrache
No matter what happens, there will still be jobs in the world, there will still be money, and there will still be good places to live. .... The plan is simple: Save money.
1. Know how much you are making. Whether you make 30,00 a year or 50,000 thousand, if you keep track of what’s going in and out down to the last dollar, you can control your spending. Get a notebook and a pen/pencil and keep it in your pocket at all times. Now, for a week, a month, or however long is necessary for you to get the point ,write down every single expense you make. Don’t change your habits yet if you can help it. Spend like you always do. Go to clubs, movies, eateries, as often as you always do. Buy as many games as you always do. Most people are shocked to find out they spend more on impulse goods than they do on monthly bills like internet, cable, electricity
2. Plan. If step one threw some surprises at you, deal with them. . Your electricity bill is exceeded by a few trips to a restaurant. Your internet bill is exceeded by going to the movies a few times. Your cable bill is exceeded by a few fast food stops. Once you realize these things, decide how important they are to you, whether you are emotionally prepared to cut back or substitute for cheaper, or you may even decide that these provide enough pleasure that you can’t do without. For example, you can pay 3 bucks per day, or about 1000 bucks per year, for Starbucks coffee every morning, or you can buy by the bagful. A 1-pound bag of coffee lasts me about a month, and I drink coffee twice a day at least. 1-pound bags range from 5-11 bucks, depending on your tastes. Likewise, there are a lot of things you can cook that end up cheaper than eating out. You can google for millions of cooking instructions.
3. Budget. It’s such a simple concept but few people do it, especially among college students and young adults. Everyone I’ve talked to has a general idea of how much they make and how much their bills are, but the details are fuzzy. The small expenses add up and they don’t know where they come from. People pay with plastic and hope for the best. Budgeting is the smartest thing you can do for yourself, and it’s a shame that neither our schools nor our popular culture promote it. There are hundreds of links to help you with this, suited to your own saving/spending style and income. You may be commission-based, steady paycheck, assisted by your parents, etc. You can use a blank notebook, an excel spreadsheet, or free tools like quicken online:
http://quicken.intuit.com/
http://www.lulu.com/content/1581272
http://www.cnbc.com/id/26641187/
http://stackbacks.com/blog/wp-conten...cks_budget.pdf
http://www.daveramsey.com/etc/cms/in...ContentID=3461
4. Choose your own adventure. Take a blank notebook or load up your word processor of choice, and decide wtf you want, and try to push out what society tells you to want. Advertising is a huge industry, debeers and the sex and the city writers all want you to be a good little consumer drone. Marketers get paid millions to create emotional attachments and associations between people and products, inanimate objects. Choose your level of consumerism. Some people can do without a lot of material things, but nothing is free so chances are the hobby that makes you happy needs money to sustain it. Hiking may be less expensive than say, foreign travel, but don’t force yourself to do something you really don’t like because it’s cheaper. I could eat from the dollar menu, but I’d rather choose a comfortable line between value and quality. Figure out what you can live without, and what you can’t live without. Maybe tricking out a car brings you the most pleasure in life. Or maybe it’s going on vacations often and seeing other cities/countries. I personally believe that money CAN buy happiness if you’re a level-headed person that knows what they want and knows what they don’t really need. Once you decide, set savings goals for buying what you want.
5. Avoid credit whenever you can. “Buy now pay later” almost always means pay more in smaller increments. Think of it as indentured servitude. Your master, the credit card company, wants to serve as a proxy between you and the products you want as often as possible, because you’ll be working longer to pay interest. If you think you can handle paying off your card every month, tell your ego to STFU, then look at your budget plans and do the numbers. Make sure your ability to it off the same month is objective, and not emotional pandering to yourself by your inner 4-year-old that wants it now. I highly recommend watching this documentary: http://www.maxedoutmovie.com/reviews/index.html. That will show you what kind of fucked up lifestyle you will live if you try to live above your means. Nobody is forcing you down that route. YOUR choices affect your outcome.
6. Save your money. After deciding what you want, figuring out the most reasonable timeframe to get what you want. People have different levels of what they feel comfortable with. Whocares123 saves 20% of all his money, no exceptions. Others save whatever is left over after all their expenses. Others save a few bucks here and there out of guilt, while blowing most of their money. Now, when you save, the bank uses that money to create loans for businesses that sell goods and create jobs. Multiply this by millions of people and you will see the consequences of a national failure to save. If millions of people are spending their money paying off debts rather than saving at a bank, what’s going to fuel economic growth? http://www.chrismartenson.com/crash-...l-failure-save
7. What to do with all the saved money? There are countless places to put your money. Bank accounts, high-yield savings accounts, stocks, bonds, starting your own company, loan-sharking, etc. There are various risks and various returns depending on where you put your money. The safest way to play it is just putting it in the bank. I won’t advise you on these things, do your own research and choose your own adventure.

Some recommended readings. The listings are full of great, informative reviews so I won’t give any decent description myself. :
http://www.amazon.com/Total-Money-Ma...4359025&sr=8-1 Total Money Makeover by Dave Ramsey. If you’re drowning in debt, this guy has some superb techniques for getting out of it. If you’re not, this book will still teach you a lot about budgeting and managing your money. It’s also good motivation as it shows you how hard it is to climb out of the holes people dig themselves into.
http://www.amazon.com/Millionaire-Ne...4359166&sr=8-1 Ok, this guy surveyed thousands of millionaires. He made a living off of observing their lifestyles and habits. Most of them are not your Ferrari-driving opulent douchebags…

Share your own advice, thoughts, and links.
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  #2   Add Zay to your ignore list  
Old 2008-10-18, 20:00
Zay Zay is online now
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Default Re: THE money thread.

There are a lot of good, responsible posters in this forum whose advice I look forward to(euda, trousersnake). I left out a lot in my post because this topic is just so broad.
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  #3   Add ComradeAsh to your ignore list  
Old 2008-10-19, 00:29
ComradeAsh ComradeAsh is offline
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Default Re: THE money thread.

Jesus Zay, could you put a carriage return between your dot points or something?
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  #4   Add Diesel to your ignore list  
Old 2008-10-19, 02:28
Diesel Diesel is online now
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Default Re: THE money thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zay View Post
This forum needs a solid discussion on money.
No, no it does'nt...
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  #5   Add SLP to your ignore list  
Old 2008-10-19, 08:51
SLP SLP is offline
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Default Re: THE money thread.

This will show you where your savings are going.

Here is what money was made up of in August 2008 in Australia:
http://www.rba.gov.au/Statistics/table_3_300908.xls

As you can see notes and coins were 3.82% of M3 (money), deposits with banks (transaction, savings, term deposits) 91.04% and non-bank (eg. credit unions, building societies) deposits 4.92%.

Of course there are other investments, but at the moment only bank deposits and government bonds are yielding real return (that is interest is greater than inflation).

Deposits are not fully lent. Some of it is kept as cash and some is kept with the central bank. When a bank lends out part of a deposit it is called fractional-reserve banking.

At the moment Australia's consumer debts (eg. credit cards, home mortgages, car finance) is 100% of GDP. Business debt is 65% of GDP. The ratio of money lent in your deposit will be roughly the same as this, along with a bit of cash and money with the RBA.

When a business takes out a loan usually the increase in revenue is greater than loan repayments. So more economic activity is happening. When personal loans are taken out the person's income isn't increasing. As a matter of fact the loan repayments the person is making takes away the opportunity cost of spending that money on something else.

So personal debts are bad because they take away money, but business debts are generally good because they earn more money than what the loan takes away.

There is a limit to the amount of deposits. So when consumers want more money they are taking money away from business that would have put that money to good use. You are not only helping yourself by not taking out debts, but also the economy.

The only thing that should be bought on credit is a house. The only other time where I would advise buying things on credit is when there is no interest.

In Australia employers are oblidged to pay 9% towards an employee's superannuation. I don't know if that's the same in other countries, but there are tax benefits to putting money into super.
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  #6   Add negz to your ignore list  
Old 2008-10-19, 14:42
negz negz is offline
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Default Re: THE money thread.

Just simplifying your lifestyle can save tons. Not having a million possession can save you tons. Less things to break down. Less money and time spent fixing them. I'd rather pay $150 for something that'll last 10 years than spend $75 on something that won't last into next year. Don't make impulsive purchases. In this age of the internet, you have ability to read reviews from halfway across the world about the product and see what competitors are offering. Use it. I personally don't keep more than $50 in my wallet unless I know I'll be making a specific purchase that day. I leave my credit card and bank card at home unless I know I'm going to be using it. I'll post more as shit comes to me.

time is the only real commodity.
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  #7   Add Euda to your ignore list  
Old 2008-10-19, 17:45
Euda Euda is offline
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Default Re: THE money thread.

Becoming familiar with interest, even in its most basic form, is one of the most important things you can do for yourself when it comes to savings.

Focusing on the basics, you can either receive simple interest or compound interest. They are both percentage-based; however, simple interest is only based upon the principle, while compound interest is based upon the principle plus the interest accrued.
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  #8   Add Euda to your ignore list  
Old 2008-10-19, 18:05
Euda Euda is offline
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Default Re: THE money thread.

It's hard to explain such a concept without the use of a table; however, I'll give it a shot. When you're saving, you want to make your money work for you. How you invest depends on your ability to accept risk and uncertainty into your financial life. Different people feel comfortable investing in different things; it's a fact of life. If you're comfortable with risk, you have the opportunity to make, or lose, larger amounts of money. However, this is going to focus on low-risk savings and investment; it is the more approachable option.

Good Simplistic Example

Invest 1000 dollars every year for eight years, then you stop investing in this account. You'll be receiving 10% annually on the money. This money works for you and you leave it invested on a long-term basis. After 35 years, your eight thousand dollar investment will have surpassed $350,000.

Poor Simplistic Example

Invest 1000 dollars every year for 35 years. You'll still be receiving 10% annually on the money. You money will still be working for you on a long-term basis. However, after 35 years, you'll be left with just under $330,000.

Simply, make your money work for you in the most effective manner.
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  #9   Add Euda to your ignore list  
Old 2008-10-19, 18:40
Euda Euda is offline
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Default Re: THE money thread.

The best way to get literature on finance is to directly contact someone within a finance organization and ask them for in-house literature. They have excellent resources and often people within the organization have written interesting works that are only available to people within the company.
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  #10   Add Zay to your ignore list  
Old 2008-10-19, 19:14
Zay Zay is online now
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Default Re: THE money thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Euda View Post
Becoming familiar with interest, even in its most basic form, is one of the most important things you can do for yourself when it comes to savings.

Focusing on the basics, you can either receive simple interest or compound interest. They are both percentage-based; however, simple interest is only based upon the principle, while compound interest is based upon the principle plus the interest accrued.
The most powerful force in the universe is compound interest -Albert Einstein.

The thing about compounding interest is that not only can it work in your favor, it can also be the bane of your existence. It's what keeps people paying off the same debt for years.

Off the top of your head you can do the rule of 72. Divide the interest rate into 72 and you'll get about how long it takes the investment to double. If you have 1000 bucks at 9% compounding interest, it takes about 8 years for you to have 2000 bucks. 3% like a bank account? 24 years....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rule_of_72

Last edited by Zay; 2008-10-19 at 19:20.
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This thread continued for 2 pages in the real archive, 17 posts total - only page 1 survived here.
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