I think the trick with nutmeg is to buy whole nuts and crush them yourself. Thats the only way I ever got it to work. Nutmeg is a shitty drug though, really not worth it at all.

Why the FUCK would you want to be curled up in a ball in the corner of your room, while sweating your ass off for the entire weekend, wishing you would die?

Why the FUCK would you want to be

Que?

curled up in a ball

Never done that on any of my many nutmeg trips...

in the corner of your room

Don't think I've ever done that on nutmeg, either. Usually somewhere else.

while sweating your ass off

Never done that on nutmeg.

for the entire weekend

HAVE done that on nutmeg. ;) Lots. It's pretty fun.

wishing you would die?

Never, ever, ever done that on any of my nutmeg trips.

In fact, it's probably the only thing I've found better than X for "glad to be alive." As in mixing the emotional effects of MDMA, complete with loving your bretheren, with the "we can replace a toxic world with something infinitely better by our own hand" of psychedelics, especially the "utopic progress" and "wonder and awe" rather than the "healing through analysis and acknowledgement" type of trips.

So, yeah. Your post reads similarly to "benzos? Why would you want to get tweaked out of your mind and not sleep for three days?" No relation to the substance, actually.

For starters, I've never even heard of sweating as a side effect. 'n I don't think there's even a mechanism without adding other drugs. It could increase the risks of SS from an MAOI/SSRI combo, but by the time you've got that in your system anyway, nutmeg is the least of your problems.

One reason I used to do it was: it is one of the few tree derived highs. If I ever make it to the Caribbean, I'm certainly thinking of hitting Grenada. So I can personally thank a few of the Nutmeg Trees.

Joepedo, could you please post exactly what you do to your nutmeg? I've seen you talk about steam distilling oils and such, and just recently gained this capability myself, albeit on a very small scale, and was wanting to start work with plant oils and such, and didn't know where to start until I saw your post here.


Also, could you give a bit of description of effects? Could it be something I can still function on? Usually when I trip it's at night, so my son is in bed, I don't want to be tripping balls around my kid, so does it really last that long, and feel that intense?


Is this something I should save for a weekend when he is away with his grandparents?'



Your nutmeg stories have always intrigued me. Well, shit, everything you say intrigues me.


Oh, btw, thank you for all the info on phenylalinine. I finally broke down and bought ALL that shit, little by little, and started a regimen, and man I already notice a difference in mood etc, as well as pain levels. I've not tried it for the "trip high" that many talk about, I just needed to get my transmitter levels right, which I didn't even think about being low until I started reading your posts. Explained quite a bit about my day to day feelings and struggle with pain.


Thank you so much. You kick ass. Still tweeking the dose levels, but already a marked difference has been noticed.

Man, nutmeg is such a waste of time. I did about 40g before and all it did was make me feel like absolute shit. I was swetting and i couldnt think straight. I also felt like my skin was always greasy and hot. Not the best one ive taken.

Joepedo, could you please post exactly what you do to your nutmeg?

Honestly? Usually, I just chuck it down the hatch, straight up... but I've also got a source on NICE, fresh nutmeg in any weight, good quality, and at a good price. Freshness is key.

I HAVE used... a few techniques, though... I'll get to it in just a sec...

Also, could you give a bit of description of effects?

Well... imagine getting a mystery pill that is a completely randomized mix of MDMA, THC, and nice, clean LSD. Rather unpredictably, however, no two pills are alike.

It develops its own unique order in the way and fashion it strings these together, making it its own drug rather than "yeah, man, it's like... some other drugs"... but honestly, the only difference between its empathogenic character and MDMA's is that MDMA doesn't get you high (I should probably say "inebriated;" synaptic neurotransmitters are very high); otherwise, indistinguishable. There's a few other idiosyncracies; the afterstone actually blurs the line between cannabinoid and MDxx while retaining a distinctly-cannabinoid feel; some of the 'wid commentary has involved "exactly like being really stoned, but much happier," and sort of answers the question "if molly was actually just THC, what would it be?" Its stone is a lot like high-grade schwag with a tolerance... pleasant and daydreamy, whereas the stone for the peak (usually, right after the roll breaks and right before you start tripping) is more of that top-grade-with-no-tolerance, edgy, almost-psychedelic yet purely and solely cannabis' hard edge sort of affair. I'm pretty sure it's a MUCH more potent CB2 agonist than THC; you can expect your eyes to go red and your lungs, bladder, and urethra to run dry with a solidified cement of cottonmouth right after the peak... it would be the only negative side-effect, IMO, were it not for the fact that I've smoked ungodly fuckloads of pot enough that laying there with actually-painful cottonmouth doesn't really bother me, and the fact that it can be used as a prime benefit; because of the way the cottonmouth detaches when that part of the experience breaks (abruptly, and you'll probably wake up RIGHT after the cottonmouth breaks, too)... moistening the layer of dry cement in contact with the skin... a hard nutmeg trip is the BEST way to clean out your freaking lungs. A bit painful to cough up on the new, clean, mucus-unprotected skin for a few moments, but oh, god... that thick, dense wad is damn well taking everything with it when you curl it into a ball and hack it out your lungs. Solves everything...

Lower doses of a good batch are kind of nice, too. Cleanest psychedelic response I've found. You know that "I'm perfectly sober, but I occasionally hallucinate and have a calm, understated emotional security?" kind of "clean psychedelic response?" Where you're not tripping, but get all the benefits and visuals? Sadly, it takes the perfect batch. Other harvests from the growth of the nut are just a cock tease in underdose.

...most of this is from chuffing the raw ground nut... absorbtion methods can occasionally change the experience somewhat.

Could it be something I can still function on?

Depends on ingestion method. If you're gulping the raw meg... you could function very well for pretty much ANYTHING that didn't either involve heavy machinery, or more short-term memory than you could muster while very stoned.

Then again, you mostly mention "usually tripping when you're kid's asleep," which would mean you would have NO problems on it, by any dose. You'll just be happier and as spacey as if you smoked a lot of pot the day before, for a few days for the aftermath. The rise and fall of the peak is longer than some things, but shorter than DOx or some of the 2CGs.

Raw oil gelcapped, otoh... it's unlikely that you would be functioning for the peak. For some reason, you're either on a much huger dose or you're not getting effects. It also tends to destroy the progression and just throw everything all together... so you'll be stoned and grilling your brains out and rolling in some grotesque mix. The afterstone is also longer and less happy; I was getting kind of sick of it by the fifth day. This is with a simple 'tone extract, recrystallization of the trimyristic acid wax, and bakeoff of the 'tone and terpenes at about 200c, before putting in OO gelcaps. Effective dose was about 3.5g oil, or 4 caps; if memory serves, an empty OO gelcap of the brand in question weighed about 125mg.

Concentrated spice liquor, otoh, with the grounds still in, is a third question. It takes a much lower dosage and has a much shorter duration with a hard psychedelic peak, and would probably appeal best to those who only want a more-normative classical psychedelic; of course, the liquor in question had other spices as well, some of which might have been active (the cloves probably aren't, and were added for taste - it was the leftover of a cookie-flavoring liquor, in fact)...

...and the nutmeg butter expressed by tossing a pound in a giant cloth bag, smothering it in water and refluxing in a covered pot, before harvesting the wax nuggets which congeal on cooling, well... it's definately a craftsman's art, and the most unpredictable. Not to mention the one most likely to disappoint the inexperienced drug-seeker; it's totally roll-of-the-dice and almost always delayed. One of these days, I want to run the 'tone recrystallization on chosen batches, to see how its variability carries. It's certainly the easiest to function on - the most interfering effect was an extreme "cannabinoid panic" effect which kept me keeping the usual ten feet of distance from anybody I wasn't sparring with - but each batch has a highly distinct character, and most interestingly perhaps is that individual effects show up almost at random across the next three days...

...the cannabinoid panic (lesser than the one noted above) hitting at about the day after was the most common, and I remember a few cheerful wavy distortions as well. Some of the more interesting effects are a variation on the "brain movies" shulgin talks about; fairly common across a few batches, one's deliberate mental visualizations actually became more "real" than the world around one in their experience, though it was fairly easy to tell apart.

'n one of my favorite experiences happened the same way as well... the second or third day, reading in clean psychedelic-style "infinitely pleased comfort" on my bed, the whole room around me was entirely replaced by a jungle. Just subtle peripheral visuals, nothing surprising, but yes, I was reading a book on my bed in the rain forest, and any objects to the contrary had completely gone away.

One of the most reliable effects came about by accident, using a sawed-off straw as a mouth-operated pippete. Yeah, you can see where that is going. Suffice to say that if one cleans one's butter slightly by tossing it in a bottle, pouring boiling water in until the molten oil is all in the neck, letting any entrapped particulate matter fall to the bottom of the water, and seperates the golden oil floating on top of the layer of whitish-clear oil, said golden oil, smeared en masse into the surfaces of the mouth while molten, seems to fairly reliably produce that "clean subdued psychedelia," that sort of infinite calm and cozy satisfaction to sobriety which will allow your ceiling to remain in morphing colors, but only if you stare at it a bit, or the room you're in to be slightly breathing in the background constantly, while you sit in the perfect form of sobriety, by the second or third day.

...but for best results, just chug anywhere from a half ounce to two ounces or so of fresh, ground nutmeg, straight up. ;) Not that I weigh it, I measure by the mouthful, but the time it takes for a QP to disapear suggests about that range. A night's worth of fun and a few days worth of your own happy world.

Usually when I trip it's at night, so my son is in bed, I don't want to be tripping balls around my kid, so does it really last that long, and feel that intense?

It was only "ZOMG INTENSE" for about 8-10 hours on an eighth of the oil, and maybe 1-4 hours on the liquor. Chugging it raw, it's pretty intense at some doses, but it's only going to break you if you're either a drug virgin, or used to things in say, the opiate/stimulant/benzo range (and haven't faced sleep-dep delerium on stimulants, I assume). On average, the trip part of the effects have been "get lost in the bathroom for an hour and look at the mirror for half that time" trips rather than "lay where you fall and piss yourself in the face of God" trips, and if it wasn't simultaneously stoning, someone good enough at maintaining on psychs could actually come off as pretty darn coherent, even though they'd still be tripping.

As for "lasting that long"... two days to a week after you take it, but everything but the peak on the first day is just "better than stoned." Hope you don't drive much, because you'll be spacing off enveloped in pure pleasure from time to time, but passing for sober around arch-conservative family members or managing most tasks will probably not be a problem.

Is this something I should save for a weekend when he is away with his grandparents?'

The first time, I don't know, but the times after that, it's almost certainly not neccesary. Doubly so if your signifigant other is willing to handle nighttime childcare issues, but you actually probably could change a diaper or whip up a bottle (though I think your son's just a tad older than that) while tripping balls, on most preperations noted.

Oh, btw, thank you for all the info on phenylalinine.

:) No problem.

I already notice a difference in mood etc

You will pardon me if I lol'd a little?

http://www.fashionablecanes.com/mm5/graphics/00000001/houses-cane.jpg

as well as pain levels.

Y'know, I was meaning to put this in the BS thread when I finally got around to it...

...have you ever just taken a crapload of unroasted, unsalted sunflower seeds, and subjected them to an anhydrous iso pull?

...have you ever just tried licking up a half-teaspoon a day or so?

The reason I ask is that the product produced is a surprisingly large amount of fractionated phosphatidylcholine, according to the references on its manufacture and sources, and it just so happens that the root nucleus - phosphatidylic acid - happens to be the lipid donor for the cannabinoid pathway. 'n, oh yeah, the particular lipid conjoined in the phosphatidylic acid in sunflower happens to be oleic acid. Which is not only used in the cannabinoid pathway itself a moderate bit, but is the only precursor to the oft-famed arachyndolic acid we all know and love.

'n since you noted that the painkillers which work best for you which aren't 'caine - OTC and weed - all seem to be cannabinoid, I figured I might ask. From my own experience, they turn an NSAID/APAP stack into something actually worth doing for recreation... though that isn't too healthy, just poppin' 'em for fun... but considering your unique situation,well... I thought I'd ask.

Last I checked, I could whip up a month's supply on a saucer for about two bucks. Individual mileage may vary by local economy.

I've not tried it for the "trip high" that many talk about

Don't worry. No need to make plans or efforts; next time you smoke, you'll know how long you've been loading. ;)

I just needed to get my transmitter levels right, which I didn't even think about being low until I started reading your posts. Explained quite a bit about my day to day feelings and struggle with pain.

I'm honestly becoming convinced that MOST people are at least moderately deficient in something. Then again, I also agree with the people who think "This is normal; I should feel like this all the time" when they drop their first roll, and nutrition - and the history of the religions in India - seem to support this hypotheosis. ;)

You, otoh, are sort of a special case, 'n not in the best way for you. By mechanisms unknown, every time we experience stress, our dopaminergic baseline drops for a fair while; the most common-experience way of expressing this is "frustration pisses us off," but other related cumulative stressors - boss riding one's ass, being dicked around by a pig with a hardon, being stuck in traffic - also tend to piss us off, and sometimes, definately leave us pissed off for a while.

Unfortunately, every time you felt pain, you experienced stress. That's not even counting the number of times you were frustrated and pissed off by "I wish it was reasonably attainable and simple to walk across this small room I'm in," that's just the stress from pain. Can you manage to count the number of times you've been in pain in even the last week? I'm guessing you can't...

Sadly, the number of reasons it sucks to be in your shoes (or, shoe and plastic bag holding liquid mushy bits) actually go far, far beyond the obvious "it hurts."

Glad to hear that something's helping to work around the surrounding issues, as well as some of the pain. Regarding the rest of "day to day feelings and struggle," psychedelic therapy was fairly common throughout the preeuropean western hemisphere; to a great degree, a number of cultures both there and elsewhere saw the illness or infirmity as inexorable and its mental, emotional, and spiritual effects on one's life as the matter which needed treatment. Unfortunately, nutmeg tends to drop its insight on the present and future, rather than the past; the only exception to this involves its bizzare ritualized use structured after other herbs which it would take another long post to explain, and dealt more with conflict with society and the concurrent presence of both good and evil than it did the usual reliving/revisiting life. In a very real sense, nutmeg kept its focus to the present while the other herbs dwelt in the past... and not in a way that would help you.

So LSx/psilocybin/mescaline would probably be more appropriate medicine for digesting and orienting the struggle and the feelings around it. Or, tryptophan in high doses, though it's a bit less revelatory-transformative and far more gradual, which would prevent the "conversion experience" effects of traditional psychedelic medicine.

Meh. I'm babbling. I'll stop this rant.. here, I guess.

Thank you so much. You kick ass. Still tweeking the dose levels, but already a marked difference has been noticed.

Yeah. It's pretty unmistakeable for those who are looking to manage life. ;) Eventually, you might hit the rare roadblock in metabolic reregulation (including the joy of amphetamine crashes, which is a bitch, and the "really bitchin' headache" from brain-side-bbb tyramine metabolic crapout), but almost all of them can be handled either by stopping and restarting for a day or two, or actually eating non-chemical nutrition.

Welcome to the club. It's a better life. One of these days, I'm even going to talk you into eating a handful of either sunflower or pumpkin seeds once a day for a week. :)

Glad you could join us.

Oh, and...

One reason I used to do it was: it is one of the few tree derived highs.

Epic win. :)

...have you ever just taken a crapload of unroasted, unsalted sunflower seeds, and subjected them to an anhydrous iso pull?

...have you ever just tried licking up a half-teaspoon a day or so?

The reason I ask is that the product produced is a surprisingly large amount of fractionated phosphatidylcholine, according to the references on its manufacture and sources, and it just so happens that the root nucleus - phosphatidylic acid - happens to be the lipid donor for the cannabinoid pathway. 'n, oh yeah, the particular lipid conjoined in the phosphatidylic acid in sunflower happens to be oleic acid. Which is not only used in the cannabinoid pathway itself a moderate bit, but is the only precursor to the oft-famed arachyndolic acid we all know and love.

Is your goal here to inhibit COX enough to relieve pain or to potentiate the cannabis? If the latter then I'll need to see that cannabinoid pathway (trust me I've looked :(:o). This would undoubtedly work with pure lecithin as well, which is an amazingly cheap source of various phosphatidic acid-derived compounds; though I'll admit not as fun as pulling the stuff yourself.

BTW Joe, I've recently come into a small amount of money (gouging the state ftw ) and will be beginning a new neurococktail regimen. It will consist of a hell of a lot more than just dopamine precursors though. I'll keep you posted.

Is your goal here to inhibit COX enough to relieve pain or to potentiate the cannabis?

ten-page reply deleted by browser. will come back tomorrow or something. summary : there are actually reasons for the shit I said. ;)

there are actually reasons for the shit I said. ;)

I thought you were bullshitting me!

I love you Joe. I would hug you if I could. And actually, I did buy a big bag of shelled sun flower seeds last week and ate all of them.


Though I do know that headache you speak of. But yeah, this shit is great. And thank you so much for all of that. Seriously. I have struggled for years just trying to articulate what you said here. The frustration. And the shit I miss and can't do.



I am seeking a more permanent solution. Self induced damage beyond the point of saving the limb. They told me they can't amputate without gangrene or some terrible NEW injury.

Fucking pricks waste my time to milk my copay.

I thought you were bullshitting me!

Many people make that mistake... until the dox start to drop.

Is your goal here to inhibit COX enough to relieve pain or to potentiate the cannabis?

Neither.

It's to max out endocannabinoid activity.

Of course, we all know the real reason you asked...

If the latter then I'll need to see that cannabinoid pathway (trust me I've looked ).

The human body synthesizes anandamide from... arachidonic acid

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anandamide

mammals... convert linoleic acid into arachidonic acid

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arachidonic_acid

Linoleic acid is..abundant in many vegetable oils, especially... sunflower oils.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linoleic_acid

Sunflower oil also contains lecithin

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunflower_oil

Lecithins may also be modified by a process called fractionation. During this process, lecithin is mixed with an alcohol... The {alcohol} is separated from the lecithin sludge, after which the ethanol is removed by evaporation, to obtain a phosphatidylcholine-enriched lecithin fraction.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lecithin

So, you see... the entire thing has been designed with care with one purpouse in mind...

The human body synthesizes anandamide from N-arachidonoyl phosphatidylethanolamine, which is itself made by transferring arachidonic acid from phosphatidylcholine (PC) to the free amine of phosphatidylethanolamine (PE).[

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anandamide

The specific and targeted delivery of high doses of arachindoylphosphatidylcholine from a high-purity linoleylphosphatidylcholine source to the cannabinoid system.

Unfortunately...

would undoubtedly work with pure lecithin as well, which is an amazingly cheap source of various phosphatidic acid-derived compounds; though I'll admit not as fun as pulling the stuff yourself.

...lecthin usually means soy lecthin, due to economic reasons. 'n sadly, soy fats peak at about 50% linoleic acid...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soy

...and sunflower at about 75% peak.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunflower_oil

In fact, after safflower, sunflower oil is the most potent noted source of linoleic acid. This serves those of us hell-bent on delivering maximum, pleasantly-fractionated linoylphosphatidylcholine to the cannabinoid pathway well. ;) Furthermore, more of the remainder of sunflower is oleic acid, source of the debated endocannabinoid oleamide.

So you see, it was all quite deliberately designed. ;)

will be beginning a new neurococktail regimen.

Oooh! I look forward to empirical data!

I did buy a big bag of shelled sun flower seeds last week and ate all of them.

Sweet! j00 has tryptophan!

http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tname=foodspice&dbid=57

400mg/cup.

Though I do know that headache you speak of.

Congratulations... you finally have a use for those hydros the doc keeps pushing on you. ;)

Seriously. I have struggled for years just trying to articulate what you said here.

I guess knowing how the machinery in the brain works is good for something after all. ;)

Mostly, however, I keep getting surprised at how opposite our society is from what's healthy. Turns out that everything that people complain about and are told to suck it up is actually not very good for you. There was a charming british study a while ago that managed to establish that the system we use to treat our employees is toxic enough that the number of supervisors one had (e.g., the lower one's rank) was the greatest predictor of lifespan. Yay. Not to mention all the studies surrounding sleep deprivation and performance which we turn on their heads.

Unfortunately, in your case, there's also not a lot we can tell you to directly help you, aside from "take up swordfighting." There are things that can help keep it from having a problem in the rest of your life, such as supplanting the higher dopamine load, or corticoid blocking (http://jn.nutrition.org/cgi/content/full/133/6/1882), or decreasing aqquired chronic corticoid tolerances (http://biopsychiatry.com/fluoxcorticosteroid.htm) which differentiate between eustress and chronic distress (http://biopsychiatry.com/corticosteroid.htm), or even dropping a fuckload of LSD and finding new views which help you integrate your problems and feelings about those problems into a healthier understanding and appreciation which better suits your life (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17286594).

(yes, that last one is a mechanistic study, not an LSD study. here's (http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6T07-4G94H9C-2&_user=10&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&view=c&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=30b14ae521de2a187bc58532cfbdbeb0) another. yes, it's about that (http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/110519600/abstract?CRETRY=1&SRETRY=0) receptor subtype)

Unfortunately, we can't affect your pain... except for noting that you report that it is cannabinoid (NSAID/APAP/THC) responsive and opiate irresponsive and dropping a quick tip to jack your endocannabinoid transmissions until you forget your own name. All we can really do is figure out how often a constant randomized stimulus sets off a cascade in the reward center and HPA, retranscribe that into the subjective experience, be amazed at how well you've handled it (the usual outcome of extreme stress is "idiot with universalized sadism," not "nonidiot who occasionally flames noobs")... and maybe try to offer what knowledge we can to keep your leg from creeping... outside your leg and into the rest of your life. Hopefully.

Worse from your point of view still is that the dopaminergic systems are sort of set up to spiral away from the center. High-dopamine states are more responsive to positive stimulus and low-dopamine states to negative stimulus. While at first this only tells us the obvious "optimism and pessimism depend on your mood at the moment," which is a major "duh"... it means that once something's gotten you below median, only the negative will affect you (or for that matter, be remembered), and more importantly, as long as only the negative can affect your mood, memory and learning... it's going to keep going down.

Oh, yeah. link (http://www.citeulike.org/group/780/article/992133). Nonetheless, you can see how that could cascade into a downward spiral of hopelessness.

Luckily, that one small point has just been reversed. The bad news is, your leg's just fucked. The good news is that with a mix of postwestern methodology and nonwestern philosophy of illness, there's even a chance that it won't affect the rest of your life.

The white man laughed when he heard that mescaline in the desert, or ayahuasca in the forest, was the cure for every illness. (of course, he also enslaved his own people and subjected them to the lash to toil to line another man's pockets)... but the root of disease is just that, dis-ease, and it is not what we cannot change, but how this affects the rest of our life and our understanding of the universe, which affects its impact on us.

...now if you'll pardon me, I'll shut up before I sound even more like a wannabe psychedelic neoshaman than I already have. ;) Hope the upscaling of anandamide manages to drop your baseline pain level to something more reasonable, or, hell... that anything works for you. Your ability to keep functioning at all is damn amazing.

Thank you for all of that, I have a lot of reading to do. And actually you view of pain is much like that held in buddhism. I was just reading on that recently, and found the view to be very inspiring. I love your posts. Brain candy.

practically every post you make, joe, opens a door to new and interesting things to study.

This is with a simple 'tone extract, recrystallization of the trimyristic acid wax, and bakeoff of the 'tone and terpenes at about 200c, before putting in OO gelcaps.

Quick clarification, are you saying the oil is produced by performing the tone wash, then removing the fatty acid wax by rextal and the solvent and the terpenes? Which then leaves your product (the oil), and those other products isolated are binned or recycled?

So, uh, just for curiosity sake, what is the legal status of this? I assume uncontrolled. And on another note, the reason I've not really looked much into this is because of all the people talking about hellish painful trips. What is it that causes this reaction in people? Is it shitty sourced plant material? Some additive? Are these people just retarded, and parroting what they've read?


I really really want to try this. All of it. Cheap homemade psychedelics? Shit, why not? I really wish I could convince my wife to simply TRY one of them, ANY one. But no.


Today on oprah a Dr. was describing her stroke, and mentioned feeling that she was a being of pure energy, and couldn't tell where she ended, and began.

I started loling, and was like "Shes tripping balls having a stroke LOL!"



Yeah, that didn't help her view point of psychedelics.
She is tripping balls because her BRAIN IS DYING JUST LIKE WHEN YOU TRIP.



At which point I brought up the protective characteristics of serotonin release, and yeah, I don't think it's possible to convince this woman to try anything. Now, she IS one of those sensitive people that can come up with the same shit sober that other people do on quite a bit of LSD or MDMA, but hell with a mind like that already, even very small doses of those drugs could have an amazing effect.


Plus she would make a super sexy candy kid.

Oh, I think I know that doctor; I saw her give a lecture on Ted Talks about when she had a stroke.

many people make that mistake... Until the dox start to drop.



Neither.

It's to max out endocannabinoid activity.

Of course, we all know the real reason you asked...



the human body synthesizes anandamide from... Arachidonic acid

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/anandamide

mammals... Convert linoleic acid into arachidonic acid

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/arachidonic_acid

linoleic acid is..abundant in many vegetable oils, especially... Sunflower oils.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/linoleic_acid

sunflower oil also contains lecithin

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/sunflower_oil

lecithins may also be modified by a process called fractionation. During this process, lecithin is mixed with an alcohol... The {alcohol} is separated from the lecithin sludge, after which the ethanol is removed by evaporation, to obtain a phosphatidylcholine-enriched lecithin fraction.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/lecithin

so, you see... The entire thing has been designed with care with one purpouse in mind...

the human body synthesizes anandamide from n-arachidonoyl phosphatidylethanolamine, which is itself made by transferring arachidonic acid from phosphatidylcholine (pc) to the free amine of phosphatidylethanolamine (pe).[

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/anandamide

the specific and targeted delivery of high doses of arachindoylphosphatidylcholine from a high-purity linoleylphosphatidylcholine source to the cannabinoid system.

Unfortunately...



...lecthin usually means soy lecthin, due to economic reasons. 'n sadly, soy fats peak at about 50% linoleic acid...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/soy

...and sunflower at about 75% peak.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/sunflower_oil

in fact, after safflower, sunflower oil is the most potent noted source of linoleic acid. This serves those of us hell-bent on delivering maximum, pleasantly-fractionated linoylphosphatidylcholine to the cannabinoid pathway well. ;) furthermore, more of the remainder of sunflower is oleic acid, source of the debated endocannabinoid oleamide.

So you see, it was all quite deliberately designed. ;)



oooh! I look forward to empirical data!



Sweet! J00 has tryptophan!

http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tname=foodspice&dbid=57

400mg/cup.



Congratulations... You finally have a use for those hydros the doc keeps pushing on you. ;)



i guess knowing how the machinery in the brain works is good for something after all. ;)

mostly, however, i keep getting surprised at how opposite our society is from what's healthy. Turns out that everything that people complain about and are told to suck it up is actually not very good for you. There was a charming british study a while ago that managed to establish that the system we use to treat our employees is toxic enough that the number of supervisors one had (e.g., the lower one's rank) was the greatest predictor of lifespan. Yay. Not to mention all the studies surrounding sleep deprivation and performance which we turn on their heads.

Unfortunately, in your case, there's also not a lot we can tell you to directly help you, aside from "take up swordfighting." there are things that can help keep it from having a problem in the rest of your life, such as supplanting the higher dopamine load, or corticoid blocking (http://jn.nutrition.org/cgi/content/full/133/6/1882), or decreasing aqquired chronic corticoid tolerances (http://biopsychiatry.com/fluoxcorticosteroid.htm) which differentiate between eustress and chronic distress (http://biopsychiatry.com/corticosteroid.htm), or even dropping a fuckload of lsd and finding new views which help you integrate your problems and feelings about those problems into a healthier understanding and appreciation which better suits your life (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17286594).

(yes, that last one is a mechanistic study, not an lsd study. here's (http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=articleurl&_udi=b6t07-4g94h9c-2&_user=10&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&view=c&_version=1&_urlversion=0&_userid=10&md5=30b14ae521de2a187bc58532cfbdbeb0) another. Yes, it's about that (http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/110519600/abstract?cretry=1&sretry=0) receptor subtype)

unfortunately, we can't affect your pain... Except for noting that you report that it is cannabinoid (nsaid/apap/thc) responsive and opiate irresponsive and dropping a quick tip to jack your endocannabinoid transmissions until you forget your own name. All we can really do is figure out how often a constant randomized stimulus sets off a cascade in the reward center and hpa, retranscribe that into the subjective experience, be amazed at how well you've handled it (the usual outcome of extreme stress is "idiot with universalized sadism," not "nonidiot who occasionally flames noobs")... And maybe try to offer what knowledge we can to keep your leg from creeping... Outside your leg and into the rest of your life. Hopefully.

Worse from your point of view still is that the dopaminergic systems are sort of set up to spiral away from the center. High-dopamine states are more responsive to positive stimulus and low-dopamine states to negative stimulus. While at first this only tells us the obvious "optimism and pessimism depend on your mood at the moment," which is a major "duh"... It means that once something's gotten you below median, only the negative will affect you (or for that matter, be remembered), and more importantly, as long as only the negative can affect your mood, memory and learning... It's going to keep going down.

Oh, yeah. link (http://www.citeulike.org/group/780/article/992133). Nonetheless, you can see how that could cascade into a downward spiral of hopelessness.

Luckily, that one small point has just been reversed. The bad news is, your leg's just fucked. The good news is that with a mix of postwestern methodology and nonwestern philosophy of illness, there's even a chance that it won't affect the rest of your life.

The white man laughed when he heard that mescaline in the desert, or ayahuasca in the forest, was the cure for every illness. (of course, he also enslaved his own people and subjected them to the lash to toil to line another man's pockets)... But the root of disease is just that, dis-ease, and it is not what we cannot change, but how this affects the rest of our life and our understanding of the universe, which affects its impact on us.

...now if you'll pardon me, i'll shut up before i sound even more like a wannabe psychedelic neoshaman than i already have. ;) hope the upscaling of anandamide manages to drop your baseline pain level to something more reasonable, or, hell... That anything works for you. Your ability to keep functioning at all is damn amazing.

fuck me sideways

Now you know why I enjoy this life so much. The world of man is corrupt, but the world left behind by Nature and Nature's God is a treasure to be explored... if you'll pardon the enlightenment-era deist scientific rant for a second. ;)

It's a fun life, 'n it was a fun childhood. The science and books, that is.

And actually you view of pain is much like that held in buddhism.

Not too surprising; my zen no nippon phase and my peak LSD use sort of coincided in the same years. Toss in a few drug-related philosophies, like an abiding love and self-identification with all human life I'm not considering killing at the moment, 'n a few pre-drug psychedelic philosophies, and it was probably inevitable. :)

Throw in the effects of the study of neurology with the "we're all inherently beautiful and perfect persons who can only be led away from, and not lose, our human potential," 'n everything goes to shit. Hippieshit, most likely...

Quick clarification

...with animal charcoal, after which the matter is crystallized in the public consciousness?

Oh, sorry. It's amazing how thoroughly our language proves that 'better living through chemistry' is not exactly newschool...

are you saying the oil

Nutmeg, rather than linoleylphosphatidylcholine for the CBn pathway, I assume?


is produced by performing the tone wash

Technically, a 'tone extraction or a 'tone pull, since you won't have a partially cleansed (or signifigantly any) allylbenzenes left behind after steeping in sufficient acetone...

...but yeah.

then removing the fatty acid wax by rextal

Yup. I've always preferred room-temperature evaporation to about half the volume, then running through a coffee filter - then running the next pull through the accumulated trimyristic acid to leave it sparkling white.

...but that's just me.

and the solvent and the terpenes?

...are baked off. ;)

Which then leaves your product (the oil)

Bingo.

I believe the allylbenzenes are fluorescent under short-wave blacklight, which would make for easy chromatography if desired, but the end product should be pure enough for ingestion as nutmeg oil. I mean, if you think about it, it's coming out fairly decent for lazy-ghetto extraction, probably a rather fine technical grade when you add up what all has been removed and look at what's in there.

and those other products isolated are binned or recycled?

I usually save the trimyristic acid. Clean, it's a treasure in its own right...

...but the 'tone would only be recovered dirty, and if you want trimyristic waxy crystals that are worth catching in a coffee filter (or even fail to clog the shit out of your coffee filter 'till the poor chemist suicides frustratedly - admit it, we've all been there), you're losing half of it anyways... so... an open-air bakeoff seemed the best route there.

Nice, thick, red-orange oil. What few higher-boiling fractions there are will form a thin layer of organic glass on whatever mineral glass you vape off the terpenes in, when your 'tone is gone.

's a pretty quality product, 'n I'm making a liqueur with it, rather than a crafted blend of raw spices, someday. ;)

So, uh, just for curiosity sake, what is the legal status of this?

Schedule I controlled substance with an "equal applicability" defense that's pretty good, as far as I can tell. Same as soy, chocolate, rice, pork, wheat, and the like.

Thank the analog act. If it didn't have some form of "structural or pharmacological similarity," our brains wouldn't be able to use it to operate, and we would die... but the principle of equal applicability of law means that you've at least got a lot of fucking hostages to take down with you for defense on this one.

I really wish I could convince my wife to simply TRY one of them, ANY one. But no... I don't think it's possible to convince this woman to try anything.

:)

Y'know, there's been a point of ethical debate regarding pharmacodynamics of common substances... is one ethically required to tell someone what it does, or simply what's in it? :D

Now, it just so happens that comingling an eighth of an ounce of oil in the minimal amount of food-grade wax, such as milk or dark chocolate, neccesary to solidify it, forming microdot "sprinkles," and encapsulating them in a sucrose coating to prevent flavor bleed-through would probably be too intense to spring on your soon-to-be-future-ex-wife. ;) Don't wanna scare the poor girl away from it...

...but on the other hand, a large bowl of protien-saturated sunflower soup (mine was made with the first pull from about 5lbs) contains enough tryptophan and methionine to leave someone tripping for an entire week. It's also a fairly gentle trip, except for those brief peaks that hit around day 5-7 which make 20x salvia look fucking tame.

...which would probably fuck with her. But a lower dose and some methionine enrichment might create the gentle forerun without causing your brain to shit a gram of methoxydialkylates at once. Use yourself as a guinea pig before dosing her, and you can have her tripping at your leisure without thinking all THAT much of the fact that she occasionally grows/shrinks/whatever in her little mind... "sunflower, chicken, and lentil soup with a hint of hydrolysed egg yolk" is fairly honest, right?

More to the point, if she drinks, I'm sure she wouldn't flip out if a fine liquor was flavored with a few spices here and there. You'd have to blend it to sub-freak-out - the liquor I brewed, a tenth of a shot took me to sub-freakout doses, 'n I'm guessing my freakout is a LOT less than a psych virgin's, even if I usually just... go beyond freakout voluntarily instead of not freaking out, lol.

So... blend it light, tell her what's in it, 'n she'll blame the fact that she's tripping on the alcohol. You told her what's in it, right?

Shit like this is why I inform people who speculate about other people's capacities for "informed consent" that they don't have a right to live. Because they don't have a tiny fucking pretense on the right not to starve to death. I inform the adults of what's in it. They eat. They are surprised by the effects. 'n at this point, that's basically any fucking effect I want. I want this woman to grow a beard? No problem, FDA GRAS. I want this person to become a raging nymphomaniac with severe disinhibition? No problem, FDA GRAS. I want to change someone's ethical philosophies, or blot out their memory, for several hours? No problem, FDA GRAS.

I want to reverse puberty? Well... I still remember the first person who asked me that in an internet chatroom. You guessed it... FDA GRAS.

So next time you're trying to give your son a sibling to play with, don't forget to rattle off a simple disclaimer; "do you affirm that you are aware that your sexual desires and intents are influenced by what you have eaten over the last several weeks, and that as a human is an entirely mechanistic organism, that there is a good chance you actually have no conscious volition?"

'n by all means, let her know that it is a vodka flavored with allspice (eugenol, will not cross BBB), cloves (eugenol, no effect), nutmeg (duh), and lemon zest (mild stimulant in aromatherapy, may counteract the narcotic effects of alcohol) before letting her decide to know if she wants to share a sip from a pair of shot glasses with you... but ffs, mix it gentle. ;)

...but... yes, by all means, tell her what's in it before she tells you if she wants to share it with you or not.

And on another note, the reason I've not really looked much into this is because of all the people talking about hellish painful trips. What is it that causes this reaction in people? Is it shitty sourced plant material? Some additive? Are these people just retarded, and parroting what they've read?

Oh, a few of most of these these...

Is it shitty sourced plant material?

Overaged material does tend to cause a more noneuphoric stone, glossing over the empathogenic and psychedelic effects quite a bit.

There's a good chance that whatever the cheapest bottle in the store they picked up is the crap that's sat too long to be passed off on any other market. God knows it's seldom gourmet.

...but while that probably exacerbates it, I don't think that's responsible for all of it. There are people who actually munch seroquel for any alteration, and even the crappiest nutmeg has to be less dysphoric than that...

Some additive?

Doubt it.

parroting what they've read?

That's almost certain to be the reason for MOST of the shit-talking surrounding it. Keep in mind that most of such people not only advocate not trying it - they'll also proudly claim that they followed their own advice...

Are these people just retarded...

NOW we're on to something! :D

Look at... I think it was Native Reserve's post. S/he claims to, as a first time, have taken a dose which would be considered a LARGE-ASS dose... for an experienced nutmegger and with known plant material.

On the other hand, s/he claimed sort of explicitly to not only not be an experienced nutmegger... but to be a complete first-timer at that. 'n by virtue of this, we can deduce that the potency and quality of the material was completely unknown, too. I would NOT reccomend a highly-experienced nutmegger to start out at that dose with untested material, 'n a novice is definately best given candytrips, not visionary excess, their first time.

So... "overdosing retards" is one definate causative.

The other factor I suspect is at play here... imagine what would happen as a reaction if you gave someone whose idea of "drugs" was confined to their own experience... 5 milligrams of opiates here... 250ug of xanax there... or 10mg of some classmate's ADD meds... say, 250ug of LSD.

For the rest of us, this is a nice, gentle, and proper trip. For the average twelve year old whose experience is with drugs which are, frankly... far less mind-altering; even a full nod or a half point of meth is less consciousness-altering than even being really fucking stoned, let alone a milligram of LSD or so... and at low doses at that, just about any drug in classes such as cannabinoids, or psychedelics, or disassociatives is going to run a high risk of leaving them "scared straight"... unless they start their potsmoking on leaf joints or such.

So, yes... let's look at this "are people just retards."

"it seemed relatively safe considering that it's something that's in almost everyone's spice rack. How could something that my mother puts in her pumpkin pie hurt me seriously?"

http://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=52691

Yup. The part in the quotes makes her sound like a fucking retard to me. 'n if you read the report, she took a normal dose, albeit being half the weight of a person that's a normal dose for...

...and, objectively speaking, had the symptoms of a pleasant trip. Of course, she also struggled with the issues arising from sleep deprivation, and a total dopaminergic crash which started before her trip, apparently caused by overactivity of dopamine beta-hydroxylase... at least by her pre-effect symptoms.

But, hey... aside from the sleep dep and preexisting metabolic issues, it sounds like she had a pleasant trip for... three fucking days. Which, yes, usually does mean overdose. But it sounds like a fun overdose. I wonder how much could be solved by just sleeping for more than 4/48 hours.

Let's look at another one.

" On my first weed trip, I freaked out with severe paranoia and guilt."

http://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=22160

That definately sounds like a good candidate for an exceptionally large dosage on someone's first trip ever on a powerful psychedelic which has profound cannabinoid effect, doesn't it? Let's see what this 200lb genius did...

"8:30pm (T): Gag down 3 heaped teaspoons of Nutmeg with water. Have a reasonably heavy dinner.

9:30pm (T+1.00): Feel nothing coming on, ingest another teaspoon of nutmeg."

Known long-delay onset, with a heavy meal to delay it further and a 150% starting dose for one's weight... and they waited a whopping hour? One for the fucking retard pile. Let's laugh at it some more.

Approx 2:30-6:30am (T+6.00-T+10.00): I know I'm completely stoned. Very similar to the first weed trip...

Most people would consider that a good thing.

After sometime the video started (my computer's unstable) but was out of synch with the sound. This freaked me out completely, I mean COMPLETELY. On one plane I realized that there was nothing wrong with me, all I needed to do was restart the movie, but feelings of paranoia crept in.... With nobody to talk to, I couldn't confirm my doubts, but I was sure my brain was messed up.I took to making random noises, playing with my clock, squeaking my bed to, etc to make sure I was receiving sound and visual signals correctly.

This sounds like a positive psychedelic experience to me. If you can't handle unconventional results from your reality-checking apparatus, do not take powerful psychedelics.

12:30pm-2:30pm (T+16.00hours-T+18.00hours): Now I'm really freaking out. My trip should've been over several hours back.

Gee. Dude obviously researched one of the longest-acting psychedelics before he took it, didn't he? How 'bout a new one?

I went to check what quantities people had been taking. I must say that I was a little worried when I discovered that the most other people had taken was about 25g. I had taken 70g. What was going to happen to me? I didn't panic as I thought 'Its only nutmeg!'

http://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=14356

I have to give this person respect for not blaming the nutmeg for their being a retard.

Yeah. Now let's look at... some other shit... How 'bout the hippie nutmeg oldschool?

http://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=17568
http://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=1301

You will notice they obsess on... not overdosing. They also have a lot of other things philosophically underpinning them which might be worth noticing.

Here's someone who tends to a lower dose. Note the first sentence...

http://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=15827

Now... let's look at some overdoses again. Poor substance preperation probably saved this dude's life...

http://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=10312

...aaaand... here's someone who took about twice the dosage for their bodyweight. It shows...

http://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=36311

Notice how these retards have a slightly different reaction to severe overdose than the other retards. Also note that they report the same objective effects as the other retards.

Conclusions? I dunno. I'm starting to come up though, so, hey, I'm not going to think about it... but there's a few datapoints from which the reader can try to figure out WTF these people are doing, and why A differs from B differs from C. My guess is that B differs from A and C on one variable, while C differs from B in things like "maturity handling their own retardation." I'd also call the 50g OD in category "C," and blame their prior drug experience for their shift in reaction.

...but I dunno. The datapoints are there, anyone can read.

Speechless.

Joe, do you have email/IM? I'd love to pick your brain about some of this in earnest.

also;

contains enough tryptophan and methionine to leave someone tripping for an entire week. It's also a fairly gentle trip, except for those brief peaks that hit around day 5-7 which make 20x salvia look fucking tame.

is that just the soup on it's own? no other cofactors or supplements required to convert the amino acids, or modulate their uptake, or anything?

Overaged material does tend to cause a more noneuphoric stone, glossing over the empathogenic and psychedelic effects quite a bit.


So that's why i got a pissweak 2 hour roll and 3 day's of the most boring zombifying high i've ever had.

Just so everyone know's masterfoods sells shit dope...

Well shit I'm convinced. I believe a trip to an organic market is in order. Love those places.

amazing how much shit someone will reply to a simple sentence followed by "discuss" (or something similar)

Speechless.

Joe, do you have email/IM? I'd love to pick your brain about some of this in earnest.

Somewhere. Someday, I might even find it. I've got a lot of shit to do at the moment...

is that just the soup on it's own? no other cofactors or supplements required to convert the amino acids, or modulate their uptake, or anything?

It's called "massive overdose" plus "methionine is the other main amino acid."

Yeah. Don't drive for two weeks. Even in doses much lower than give you a hint of what you want, if you're brbsoupinit.

Same with precipitated protien around the 3-500mg range, depending on regularity of use.

One of these days, I'm going to relook through source to find one without methionine to alternate for special purpouses.

So that's why i got a pissweak 2 hour roll and 3 day's of the most boring zombifying high i've ever had.

Commie hippie crews + bulk bin + rapid turnover rates = ftw.

Love those places.

aka ^that. :D Dunno the turnover, but hey. Right stuff.

amazing how much shit someone will reply to a simple sentence followed by "discuss"

eph binge w/ascorbate loading + natural tendancy + psychedelic nutmeg experience at the end of the experience + 1g/1g/50mg tryp/mthio/eph load the day before.

I'm debating whether to drop the eph to half on the tryp or drop it all together. It's good self-bunking on the start, but eph has a second half to the trip.

Suffice to say, I generally tl;dr anyway. 'n I didn't write up weight on my catecholamine loading. Which reminds me... I'm on a loose schedule. brb, tabz o metlz.