Well, Prom. I know this is going to come off a little bit mean, but can you PLEASE stop correcting people. It's starting to get irritating. You know what people mean when they say 'Linux'. Posting 'It's GNU/Linux nub' over and over again, is about the equivalent of spam. So please... just knock it off a bit.

I don't see anything wrong with what he's doing, he's do nothing but correcting people and basically educating people to how they should of been taught.

Prom might know what people mean when people say 'Linux', but that's not the point. The point is that a lot of people such as the OP genuinely didn't know. But thanks to Prom, who made the effort to let the OP know about Gnu, and he done so in a respectful and decent way..He even said thank you, when the OP realized his mistake and was willing to change how he referred to the system... Where's the problem?

The problem is that despite the fact that Prom is technically correct, a lot of you posters have your head so far shoved up your ass you're to proud to admit he's right and make the change. But a lot of you wont, because amongst you all, you all use the term 'Linux' to refer to the whole system which reinforces some sense of 'right'..Not only is that stupid, but it's also misleading and confusing for newcomers.

a lot of you posters have your head so far shoved up your ass you're to proud to admit he's

Why do you have to be so nasty when you're wrong?

Prom, I wasn't trying to attack you. I'm just saying that it CAN be considered spam. In case any of you wondering what spam is, here is the definition of it for Totse.com


Posting the same rant, advertisement, or announcement in multiple forums is moral equivalent of sending SPAM e-mail to people. We hate SPAM.


Now, what Prom has been doing, and I've seen it in multiple threads, is just correcting people when ever the word 'Linux' comes about. We almost all get the point of what is intended. Just like saying Windows. You use Windows, we get the point. It doesn't matter to the conversation that you use Windows XP Build 26041 V2.8 with NT Kernel Build et cetera. Unless of course, the conversation needs to be that specific. Oddballz and I have talked about it and have come the the same conclusion, that it can be considered spam.

I'm not trying to be an asshole, but we get the point. It doesn't need to be repeated. I could have been an asshole and infracted you without warning. I thought I would be nice to give you chance because you are such a good user, and I respect you a lot. What you have to understand that this is my forum. You have a right to your own opinoins. But the way I moderate it, is the way it's going to be. I think that Oddballz would agree.




If you think it's irritating, don't read my posts.




And I do have to read your posts. I'm the Moderator in this forum.

There are three groups who refer to it as GNU/Linux: Richard Stallman/FSF, the Debian distro, and Prometheum. Unless it's a system put together and/or distributed by one of the three, you don't have to use the name GNU.

Oddballz and I have talked about it and have come the the same conclusion,.

Was that before you pulled your tongue out of his ass? or after?

Was that before you pulled your tongue out of his ass? or after?

Funny that you have to take just that out of my post. Is it because you have shit else to say. I think so. Now, if you wouldn't mind trying to get me all pissed off, I'd appreciate it, because you aren't going to get anywhere.

Was that before you pulled your tongue out of his ass? or after?

If you're going to be vulgar without knowing half a shit of what you're saying, I suggest you stop taking drinks of Prometheum's love fluid first.

Funny that you have to take just that out of my post. Is it because you have shit else to say. I think so. Now, if you wouldn't mind trying to get me all pissed off, I'd appreciate it, because you aren't going to get anywhere.

^This

If you're going to be vulgar without knowing half a shit of what you're saying, I suggest you stop taking drinks of Prometheum's love fluid first.

^This as well.


Finally i can just refer Linux to Linux. btw its easier for n00bs to get the word Linux in the head.

One more point: Calling GNU an operating system is analogous to getting Visual Studio, command.com and notepad.exe and calling them an OS -- those perform most of the functions of the GNU utilities which are usually propped on top of Linux.

Just my take on Prom's whole GNU/Linux agenda...while I don't necessarily disagree that it is GNU/Linux there are a few things wrong with the argument, for one, GNU is implied- people don't say "I have an intel Mac" as opposed to, "I have a PPC Mac", no one gives a fuck, it's just a Mac. If it's a free software movement why should we be so concerned about labels anyway? I'm not saying let's be ignorant about the topic, but let's not ram it down people's throat's either. Of course, like any good argument I would have to add some supporting facts/sources.

From Eric S. Raymond:

Some people object that the name "Linux" should be used to refer only to the kernel, not the entire operating system. This claim is a proxy for an underlying territorial dispute; people who insist on the term GNU/Linux want the FSF to get most of the credit for Linux because [Stallman] and friends wrote many of its user-level tools. Neither this theory nor the term GNU/Linux has gained more than minority acceptance.

From Linus himself:

Well, I think it's justified, but it's justified if you actually make a GNU distribution of Linux ... the same way that I think that "Red Hat Linux" is fine, or "SuSE Linux" or "Debian Linux", because if you actually make your own distribution of Linux, you get to name the thing, but calling Linux in general "GNU Linux" I think is just ridiculous.


Umm, this discussion has gone on quite long enough, thank you very much. It doesn't really matter what people call Linux, as long as credit is given where credit is due (on both sides). Personally, I'll very much continue to call it "Linux". (Also from Linus)

I should note the stallman himself said to be very careful when calling linux "GNU/Linux" because it could confuse people, and they might think that linux is a GNU project.

To expand on what Linus said earlier, do you know how many Linux distro's there are? Well, I'm sure you can guess but you don't need to! I have a handy picture here.
http://i36.tinypic.com/2elh6px.png

Just to make a point that even some Linux distro's these days are spawned off of other distro's.

Now, because I am considering it SPAM from now on, I'm going to start deleting any post with the words "GNU/Linux" in it which aren't about Debian, since they're the only distro to use that as their product's proper name. I won't infract over it, but deletion is within bounds.

That's your opinion. I happen to believe you're wrong. If you disagree, feel free to discuss it with me. I don't really think that would lead anywhere, though, because every other time we've talked about it, you've fallen back to a semantic argument where you misdefine the term "operating system" to mean "kernel".

I'm not going to change my behavior, because it isn't spam. I'm sorry if that means you have more deleting to do, but it isn't my decision to over-moderate, it's yours. By that wording, you also seem to imply you'll delete all my posts that mention Gnu/Linux, or anyone else's posts who refers to the system by the name Gnu/Linux. That sounds like a lot of deleting; maybe you could stop trying to use the Moderator tag under your handle to force your views on forumgoers.

One more point: Calling GNU an operating system is analogous to getting Visual Studio, command.com and notepad.exe and calling them an OS -- those perform most of the functions of the GNU utilities which are usually propped on top of Linux.

Funny, I've read the announcement of the Gnu OS and I don't remember it saying "We're the GNU Project and we're going to write our own OS completely from scratch".

It said "We're the GNU Project and we're going to include any free software that we can."

The Gnu OS is not the sum of the work of the GNU Project. It's a collective term that refers to the free software OS based around GNU Project work and the work of others. Typically, the software in it is GPL, but it can be any free license.

If you do not understand that, then I can't get anything through to you. I think you understand it, I just think that you disagree that that's what constitutes an OS.

Don't make your definition the "official totse NS&H" definition, and don't moderate that definition into our skulls. That just makes life hard for all of us.

Prom, I wasn't trying to attack you. I'm just saying that it CAN be considered spam. In case any of you wondering what spam is, here is the definition of it for Totse.com

According to that it isn't spam. I'm not posting the same post, I'm making the same point. You might as well tell the mods of My God to infract the people that tell everyone they're going to hell or the people that tell everyone there is no hell. You might as well infract me for telling people that telnet isn't a magic haxxing tool; I say that in multiple threads in much the same fashion I correct people's usage of
the term "Linux".


Now, what Prom has been doing, and I've seen it in multiple threads, is just correcting people when ever the word 'Linux' comes about. We almost all get the point of what is intended. Just like saying Windows. You use Windows, we get the point. It doesn't matter to the conversation that you use Windows XP Build 26041 V2.8 with NT Kernel Build et cetera. Unless of course, the conversation needs to be that specific. Oddballz and I have talked about it and have come the the same conclusion, that it can be considered spam.

Only with your bastardization of the definition.

Referring to the entire OS as Gnu is the same as referring to the entire OS as Windows. If you wanted to refer to your NT Kernel version, that'd be the equivalent of saying "Linux".

I'm not trying to be an asshole, but we get the point. It doesn't need to be repeated. I could have been an asshole and infracted you without warning. I thought I would be nice to give you chance because you are such a good user, and I respect you a lot. What you have to understand that this is my forum. You have a right to your own opinoins. But the way I moderate it, is the way it's going to be. I think that Oddballz would agree.

And I do have to read your posts. I'm the Moderator in this forum.

You get the point, because you're smart and you've seen it before. A lot of people haven't, and are quite amiable to readjusting their terminology.

And if you delete the posts referring to some of my opinions, I don't have the right to my own opinions, at least not here.

Just my take on Prom's whole GNU/Linux agenda...while I don't necessarily disagree that it is GNU/Linux there are a few things wrong with the argument, for one, GNU is implied- people don't say "I have an intel Mac" as opposed to, "I have a PPC Mac", no one gives a fuck, it's just a Mac. If it's a free software movement why should we be so concerned about labels anyway? I'm not saying let's be ignorant about the topic, but let's not ram it down people's throat's either. Of course, like any good argument I would have to add some supporting facts/sources.

I disagree in a few ways. This is more appropriate for a thread discussing exactly this (Gnu vs. Linux), but here's a short rundown:

1.) Gnu might be implied for some, but it isn't for most. There are reasons to care about the name, as the name is more technically correct and emphasizes freedom.
2.) Gnu isn't the area of specification. Linux is the area of specification. If "it's just a Mac", then "it's just a Gnu" as well -- you can have Gnu without Linux, but you can't have Linux without Gnu.
3.) ESR is a fucking idiot (an idiot that has changed history, but an idiot nonetheless), and Linus has the same definition problem that Oddballz does. This is clear from watching the movie Revolution OS: the film contains interviews with both Stallman and Linus, and you can see how their definitions differ. That's the heart of this whole argument - whether an OS is a kernel or a system that you operate.

I should note the stallman himself said to be very careful when calling linux "GNU/Linux" because it could confuse people, and they might think that linux is a GNU project.

To expand on what Linus said earlier, do you know how many Linux distro's there are? Well, I'm sure you can guess but you don't need to! I have a handy picture here.
http://i36.tinypic.com/2elh6px.png

Just to make a point that even some Linux distro's these days are spawned off of other distro's.

Yeah, the whole "be careful about it' means "don't say gnu linux, say gnu slash linux". I avoid it by calling the whole system Gnu (it isn't an intel mac or a ppc mac, it's a mac unless I need to know the architecture), but anytime I write it, I write Gnu/Linux (not Gnu Linux).

To sum up: Let's not moderate opinions, making the same point isn't SPAM, and this discussion totally derails the thread, so if a mod could, please move the relevant posts into a new thread (I'll leave it up to you where to put it).

Also, while I'm not trying to make life difficult for the mods, I'm not going to stop saying Gnu/Linux because I'm told to. That would make a complete mockery of the totse ethic of free speech. I apologize sincerely if that makes modding this forum harder: I like both of the mods and think they do a good job (for the most part, at least). I really hope we can work this out like intelligent, thinking beings, and end on a point that maximizes gains for both parties.

Aye, you have good arguments and all, but I think it's pretty clear (according to various sources) that whenever someone says "Linux" they are referring to both the GNU portion and the Linux portion, it just gets redundant to repeatedly point it out. You say that you should have freedom to call it GNU/Linux, in the same vein, people should be allowed to call in Linux, even if it's "incorrect" I can call it the penguin system for all I care. There is no right way to be free, only different interpretations of it.

Either way I agree we derailed this thread like fucking train robbers.

You're right on both counts. However, I think I can show that it's proper to call it Gnu/Linux for a variety of reasons. That's a different discussion, but yeah, you're mostly right.

It'd be nice to get a new thread for this.

Yeah, seriously. It does get really fucking annoying when someone, whenever the word linux is ever uttered, OMFG NO IT'S GNU/Linux. MOST KNOW, let it the fuck go.

You're right on both counts. However, I think I can show that it's proper to call it Gnu/Linux for a variety of reasons. That's a different discussion, but yeah, you're mostly right.

It'd be nice to get a new thread for this.

I agree, but I'll let you start it since I don't know as much about the topic as you. Or one of the mods perhaps? =P

I agree, but I'll let you start it since I don't know as much about the topic as you. Or one of the mods perhaps? =P

I was hoping a mod could move the relevant posts to a new thread, but it seems that most of the mod-based issues have been resolved, so that's somewhat pointless.

We should probably let this thread recover.

I was hoping a mod could move the relevant posts to a new thread, but it seems that most of the mod-based issues have been resolved, so that's somewhat pointless.

We should probably let this thread recover.

Well, now that we have come to a conclusion. I was going to suggest the same thing. But, I don't think this thread can recover.

I apologize for my rudeness, I was having a very nihilistic day, that day.