That's debatable.

Not that McCain is going to be any more friendly to 2nd Amendment issues, or constitutional integrity either. Not that we have any real choice, but most of the people you describe just default into a 'lesser of two evils' stance. I think it could be likely that we'll see another AWB (to include .50s), national registry, and national private transfer bans with McCain as well.

not according to his voting record

Introducing legislation to 'close the gun show loophole", banning 'Saturday night special', the McCain-Feingold campaign finance reform act?

Republicans aren't necessarily our friends either.

buy your ar's now kids..

I hate the patriot act, i hate the loss of freedoms, and i hate the Nazi homeland surveillance. Ill be dammed if another political douche-bag gets to take away YOUR rights.

And the funny thing is, I liked obama.
But my mind has changed.

No matter how much i dislike puppet Bush and his cabinet, and feel that Dick Chaney is the anti christ...

McCain is NOT BUSH.
We need someone who is not another puppet.

Have you fucking seen, FOX is NOT bashing Obama... This makes me afraid, very afraid.

What ever candidate comes to power, im just glad that its a loss/loss for the Zionist lobby.

Have you fucking seen, FOX is NOT bashing Obama... This makes me afraid, very afraid.

Since when? Juan Williams is the only person I know of that plays devil's advocate for Obama and ever since the debate all I've been hearing are wet, smacking lips on McCain's dick.

ill still vote obama, but fuck, its our god damned right.

if you feel that it is your right, why are you voting for the candidate most likely to put the heaviest restrictions on it?

I personally dont think either of the two major candidates will be a huge friend to the 2nd amendment. Rather than vote, I think that all true Americans should just stock up on guns and ammo, that way we can ensure that we don't go the route of Australia or Britain.

if there laws are going to be the same anyways, im leaning for O.

Most of you guys need to stop talking politics and start looking into voting records.

No; unlike you, I have a grasp of English.

The people the let on the internet....

R_L, since the time is getting nigh, how about a stickied W&C Election 08 thread where we can discuss weapons politics as they pertain to this election? There is a lot of information about both sides a lot of people probably don't know.

Explain to me how Obama will make America a better place. Obama is more like Bush than McCain is on most issues.

i may vote for obama, but the ballot may be made of lead.

Explain to me how Obama will make America a better place. Obama is more like Bush than McCain is on most issues.

How do you figure that?

It took me until today to figure that one out.

Hopefully the Supreme Court will make another ruling before he gets to replace any jusitces.

well, his campaign called me and asked for my vote. so I asked for his gun control policy , and they said he'd leave it to the states (a dem leaving ANYTHING to the states HA!) so I then said nope, I'm voting for the fascists.(which Im not)

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well, his campaign called me and asked for my vote. so I asked for his gun control policy , and they said he'd leave it to the states (a dem leaving ANYTHING to the states HA!) so I then said nope, I'm voting for the fascists.(which Im not)

My response to that is, can freedom of speech be left to the states? Can freedom of the press be left to the states? Why should a law-abiding citizen in Chicago or DC be punished because the thuglife monkeys in that town can't quit shooting each other and yet a person in another state lives without such restrictions?

My response to that is, can freedom of speech be left to the states? Can freedom of the press be left to the states? Why should a law-abiding citizen in Chicago or DC be punished because the thuglife monkeys in that town can't quit shooting each other and yet a person in another state lives without such restrictions?

Indeed. The second amendment protection to firearm ownership is spelled out directly in the Constitution, and therefore gun ownership, in its purest sense, cannot be a delegated right left to the states as per the tenth amendment.

Surely a question like a restriction on guns should only be decided on a nationwide referendum?

Obama has proven himself to be a political coward, therefore he wouldn't risk the sheer unpopularity an AWB redux would bring him or his party.

Obama can't just magically change the laws.

Sure, he might want to, but he needs everybody else to go along with it, doesn't he?

That's a key thing right there that many people tend to overlook.

People vote for a "leader" who plans to "implement changes", but the constitution is structured so that the real power comes from congress.

The president and his administration can urge laws to be passed (clinton bullied the democratic party into drafting an AWB, but congress threw in a sunset clause to spite him), but he can't "run the country" like most people would expect.

If you want to really secure your freedoms, you have to do it on a state level.

I think the most potentially damaging powers a president has are the ability to deploy troops, the ability to appoint justices and cabinet members (and the ability to fund/underfund federal agencies, like the BATFE or FEMA [heck of a job, brownie]), and veto power. Everything else is really up to your elected representatives.

I don't think he will balk at getting AWB: Electric Boogaloo rammed across his desk. It will be bad politically, but I think if he really wants another ban he is going to get it signed in on his second term, or his first if things go bad in 2012. I will bet my left nut he won't even seriously consider outlawing guns.

I wonder if him stating, after he presumably becomes president, that he wants to take away our guns that we will finally see armed revolt as backlash for the government taking away not only gun rights, but other rights as well.

Buy your guns now. Isnt it in your(US) consitution that lets you over throw the government if the people deem it necessary?

Im sure half the army would be on your side, and the other half would either sit and watch or get slaughtered.

Import your rpg's, law's, dragoons, etc now, you'll probably need them.

And it's usa, what do you expect. The media is just like the japanese during ww2, they want everything to be perfect. So the people dont complain, and important laws can be passed without interference.

At the bookstore today I found myself flipping through the latest edition of Shooting Times, I believe it was, and just a few pages in was a full advert concerning Obama's anti-firearms position.

Needless to say, I'm concerned.

I don't know about the rest of you, but I'm voting libertarian come november. I'm sick of this lesser evil bullshit.

And depending on how bad things get(cause I know the libertarians won't actually win), there is always the lead ballot option that was nicely pointed out. Personally I don't think things will get that bad, well actually I think they are already that bad but that choosing that route now will only get me killed and accomplish nothing as no one else seems to feel the same way, but I don't think they will get bad enough to have the public support of it that it needs..

Before people talk about the impact of the Presidential elections, also consider how the House and Senate are expected to go.

Most likely even more blue. >:/

Most likely even more blue. >:/

Using this operational framework, one would likely conclude that even if Obama were ineffectual and/or "cowardly," he would be more likely to support legislation that he finds agreeable in principle. So, if he really does have a stance against some kind of strong belief of yours....

I don't know about the rest of you, but I'm voting libertarian come november. I'm sick of this lesser evil bullshit.

Damn straight.

Except I'm not voting libertarian because Bob Barr is, in a word, nuts.

But yeah, third party all the way.

http://www.johnmccain.com/Informing/Issues/77636553-6337-4ecd-b170-49e1c07d2fbd.htm

just because it hasn't been posted yet those are mccain's positions on the gun control topic

Using this operational framework, one would likely conclude that even if Obama were ineffectual and/or "cowardly," he would be more likely to support legislation that he finds agreeable in principle. So, if he really does have a stance against some kind of strong belief of yours....

And if they both have stances against strong beliefs of yours....? Maybe not both of them the same beliefs but I find both of them unacceptable. For that matter I find most of the politicians with any power unacceptable.

And if they both have stances against strong beliefs of yours....? Maybe not both of them the same beliefs but I find both of them unacceptable. For that matter I find most of the politicians with any power unacceptable.

Then I let competition be the hand that guides the policies. The problem with Second Amendment rights is that people are not representing themselves proportionately to their composition of general society. If we had enough people writing in, informing others, and voting our minds on one issue at a time, the politicians would be forced to tailor their policies depending on the stage they're running in. We never hear about politicians trying to take away Women's Suffrage or Civil Rights because too many voters would raise hell. If we had a strong enough representation instead of a bunch of ignorant, lazy, or otherwise disenchanted gun owners, no one would dare run with an agenda to infringe a right to bear arms.

We're never going to get politicians that represent our beliefs perfectly because of how democracy works, so I try and ensure that the most vital ones are represented best.