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Reinvent Yourself Self improvement through diet, physical and mental exercise, body-building, surgery, chemical introduction, life extension, tattooing, piercing, scarification and smart drugs. Medicine, and other body related topics also belong here.

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  #1   Add mvpena to your ignore list  
Old 2008-09-22, 22:37
mvpena mvpena is offline
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Alameda, CA
Default Marathon Runners, I need advice

Background:

Done martial arts for 15 years. 6 were competitive. I have been weight training 11 years. I stand at 5'11" and, currently, 158 lbs. My diet so far has been whatever I feel like eating due to my highly active lifestyle. Part of all of this training included running. 45 minutes to 1 hour 5 days a week.

Current Situation:

The only thing going on in Martial Arts is MMA. Anything else gets no play or pay. So having ran so much for so long, I'm thinking about doing it competitively (ie- Marathons). My first will be in November and its only a half. So I've changed my running schedule to 3 times a week and not by time but by distance. Two 8 mile runs and one 13 mile run. I still kickbox on the days I'm not running and I've lightened up on the weight lifting (I now lift moderately with higher reps, before I pyramid stacked to almost failure).

Problem:

1. Energy - I'm running out of it. Not while I'm running or when I'm training. I just don't have it for my every day life stuff. I've changed my diet recently, but I haven't seen any changes yet.

2. Soreness - My quads are usually sore for a couple of days after my 13 mile run. I want to make it so I can recover within one day. I've been increasing my protein intake, but I also haven't seen any improvement on that as of yet.

3. Diet - What exactly should my diet be? I find myself constantly changing it recently because every single article about a runner's diet always suggests a different diet. Sometimes they suggest entirely different diets.

4. Time - I run 13 miles in 2 hours 8 minutes. I want to run 13 miles in less than 1 hour 20 minutes. I know I can last for 13 miles, I just don't know how to make it go by quicker. Currently I'm just running 13 miles every weekend to get used to it. Eventually, once I'm used to it, I'm hoping I can just work on my speed. Its probably the wrong way to go about it, so I want to know what is the right way.

5. Rehydration - I don't do it. I've gotten so used to my current Martial Art (Muay Thai), that I don't think to rehydrate. I know I can do the whole 13 without drinking a single drop, but will it help my performance if I do? I would feel that carrying around extra weight like a water bottle would hinder the momentum I got going when I'm running.

6. Training - This kind of relates to 4. What kind of training regiment should I have? Is my just getting to used to running that much and then working on speed good? I've tried the stuff they suggest on running programs where you run like a third of what you are suppose to two times a week and 3/4ths once a week. It really felt like it was doing nothing for me, so I decided to go the whole 13. I just trashed the whole 4 miles twice a week since I've been doing that 5 times a week before anyway, and decided to do 8 miles instead.

I plan on doing a few other half marathons after this before I attempt a full marathon. I would like to see if there are any marathon runners here on totse and if there is any advice that can be offered.
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  #2   Add a soggy waffle to your ignore list  
Old 2008-09-23, 02:01
a soggy waffle a soggy waffle is offline
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Default Re: Marathon Runners, I need advice

rehydration is important, lasting the whole 13 without water is not a good thing. Dehydration will severely decrease your performance. If you are not re-hydrating you will lose bodyweight in the form of sweat that has evaporated. To measure your dehydration, weigh yourself on a fairly accurate scale before and after you run. Take the amount lost and calculate the total percent of your body weight lost. check the table in this article to see how it should have affected you: http://healthfitness.com.au/articles...rformance.html (prolly wouldnt hurt to read the whole thing either)

if you are unable to drink during training, make sure you hydrate sufficiently before and after
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  #3   Add Hung Like Christ to your ignore list  
Old 2008-09-23, 03:12
Hung Like Christ Hung Like Christ is offline
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NJ lookin at NYC
Default Re: Marathon Runners, I need advice

If my math is correct, you will be running 6:10 minute miles to run an 80 minute half marathon.
Your last 13 mile run was 9:51 per mile.
Well, rather than point out the obvious that it ain't gonna happen, I'll suggest you get to a track and run one single 6:10 mile.
Then rest for maybe 10 minutes and run another.
Rest again and run another.
Over the months, get it to the point where you can run 13 of them. (or more)
All the while decreasing your resting time.
Well really, I guess to be comfortable running 6:10 mile splits for 13 miles, you should be doing your mile intervals under 6 minutes.
Also throw in some 2 mile, 3 mile and 5 runs at that clip.
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  #4   Add mvpena to your ignore list  
Old 2008-09-23, 16:16
mvpena mvpena is offline
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Alameda, CA
Default Re: Marathon Runners, I need advice

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hung Like Christ View Post
If my math is correct, you will be running 6:10 minute miles to run an 80 minute half marathon.
Your last 13 mile run was 9:51 per mile.
Well, rather than point out the obvious that it ain't gonna happen, I'll suggest you get to a track and run one single 6:10 mile.
Then rest for maybe 10 minutes and run another.
Rest again and run another.
Over the months, get it to the point where you can run 13 of them. (or more)
All the while decreasing your resting time.
Well really, I guess to be comfortable running 6:10 mile splits for 13 miles, you should be doing your mile intervals under 6 minutes.
Also throw in some 2 mile, 3 mile and 5 runs at that clip.
Should I be doing this daily and scrap the whole 2 x 8 miles 1 x 13 miles / week?
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  #5   Add mvpena to your ignore list  
Old 2008-09-23, 17:08
mvpena mvpena is offline
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Alameda, CA
Default Re: Marathon Runners, I need advice

Quote:
Originally Posted by a soggy waffle View Post
rehydration is important, lasting the whole 13 without water is not a good thing. Dehydration will severely decrease your performance. If you are not re-hydrating you will lose bodyweight in the form of sweat that has evaporated. To measure your dehydration, weigh yourself on a fairly accurate scale before and after you run. Take the amount lost and calculate the total percent of your body weight lost. check the table in this article to see how it should have affected you: http://healthfitness.com.au/articles...rformance.html (prolly wouldnt hurt to read the whole thing either)

if you are unable to drink during training, make sure you hydrate sufficiently before and after
Thanks for the article. I calculated it based on how much I lose during kickboxing training. This consists of 3 hours of skipping rope, pad work, bag work, resistance training (kettle bells, bands, sprinting with a sled), and about an hour of sparring. I usually do this with no water. I've weight myself before and after and I lose about 2.53% of my weight.

That article says 2% leads to being thirsty and a loss of endurance and appetite. At 3% it says dry mouth and performance impairment. I usually get cotton mouth an hour after training and I do lose my appetite. I don't even know if performance has been impaired. It probably has for running because I run 8 miles in 1 hour 15 minutes and that extra 5 miles takes over a whole other hour to complete. So my pace definately slows down. The thing is that I just don't want to carry anything with me. I feel that mind will lose focus on the running and focus more on carrying that water bottle. Is there a way around this?
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  #6   Add Hung Like Christ to your ignore list  
Old 2008-09-23, 20:34
Hung Like Christ Hung Like Christ is offline
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NJ lookin at NYC
Default Re: Marathon Runners, I need advice

Quote:
Originally Posted by mvpena View Post
Should I be doing this daily and scrap the whole 2 x 8 miles 1 x 13 miles / week?
2 x 8 miles twice a week sounds reasonable.
heck , once a week x 13 miles seems reasonable.
But I'd really work on your speed via the one mile intervals, as earlier suggested.
Do not combine these workouts.
Be ready to rest at least one day per week.
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  #7   Add Phanatic to your ignore list  
Old 2008-09-24, 08:15
Phanatic Phanatic is offline
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Auckland, New Zealand
Default Re: Marathon Runners, I need advice

http://discovermagazine.com/2006/may/tramps-like-us

You should read this, it's a pretty interesting article about hunter gatherers that run/ran for 2-6 hours to hunt every day.
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  #8   Add a soggy waffle to your ignore list  
Old 2008-09-25, 04:23
a soggy waffle a soggy waffle is offline
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madison, WI Send a message via ICQ to a soggy waffle Send a message via AIM to a soggy waffle
Default Re: Marathon Runners, I need advice

Quote:
Originally Posted by mvpena View Post
Thanks for the article. I calculated it based on how much I lose during kickboxing training. This consists of 3 hours of skipping rope, pad work, bag work, resistance training (kettle bells, bands, sprinting with a sled), and about an hour of sparring. I usually do this with no water. I've weight myself before and after and I lose about 2.53% of my weight.

That article says 2% leads to being thirsty and a loss of endurance and appetite. At 3% it says dry mouth and performance impairment. I usually get cotton mouth an hour after training and I do lose my appetite. I don't even know if performance has been impaired. It probably has for running because I run 8 miles in 1 hour 15 minutes and that extra 5 miles takes over a whole other hour to complete. So my pace definately slows down. The thing is that I just don't want to carry anything with me. I feel that mind will lose focus on the running and focus more on carrying that water bottle. Is there a way around this?
I would definately reccommend drinking water or a sports drink during 3 hours of exercise. Each pound of body weight you are losing is about 16.67 ounces of water that you will want to get back eventually (fat is fairly minimal in that short of a time period). Also, make sure you did the weighing yourself method without your sweaty clothes on either so it doesnt affect the calculation.

I do more cycling myself so i dont usually have that water problem, some options might be to: get one of those dorky belts with little bottles, find a drinking fountain (tho you will have to stop then), or if you run in a loop of some kind, leave a bottle somewhere.

You will probably be fine if you try to drink before and after to make up for not drinking during the run. If you are thinking about your hydration that is a big step in the right direction. I would also recommend this aricle: http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/pic...3&blobtype=pdf (PDF) (I can send you my english paper on it if you want hah). Also make sure not to let this information be your excuse for training less hard because of your dehydration , some is more or less inevitable.
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  #9   Add danreil to your ignore list  
Old 2008-09-26, 01:38
danreil danreil is offline
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Philadelphia
Default Re: Marathon Runners, I need advice

Check out runnersworld.com They have a ton of articles and tips for marathon and half-marathon training.
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