you mean sort of like the problems we have with booze...except less detrimental to society in general? the problem with LSD is a lack of EDUCATION. the first time i did shrooms i was like 14 or 15, i had no fucking idea what i was getting myself into, nor did i really understand what i went through.

Karry Mullis didn't discover anything great, she was just trippin, right?

you mean sort of like the problems we have with booze...except less detrimental to society in general? the problem with LSD is a lack of EDUCATION. the first time i did shrooms i was like 14 or 15, i had no fucking idea what i was getting myself into, nor did i really understand what i went through.

Karry Mullis didn't discover anything great, she was just trippin, right?

I never siad booze wasn't harmful and i know u can discover and think things worth thinking while on it. I am comming off of it now. I am just saying it would be out of control if readily avaliable. I like ohw it can be hard to get as than only people dedicated ot tkaing it properly and not just at random will get it. The only advantage over legitamite use would be a reliable product and no legal repurcutions.

I never said booze wasn't harmful and i know u can discover and think things worth thinking while on it. I am coming off of it now. I am just saying it would be out of control if readily avaliable. I like how it can be hard to get as than only people dedicated ot taking it properly and not just at random will get it. The only advantage over legitamite use would be a reliable product and no legal repurcutions.


Also, I find that people who do lsd lots tend to just get very withdrawn from normal life and lamost forget what a normal state of mind is. Psychedelic states are great but real relaity is where people should appreciate being while taking journies once in a while. And most "discoveries" on psychs can be had normally ubt psychs just make it all so clear. I am not bashing them but I hate how some think that psychs are like 100 % uncencored reality. They may offer hints of what lies beyond ones normal perceptual abilities but take it all with a pinch of salt and not too often

I never siad booze wasn't harmful and i know u can discover and think things worth thinking while on it. I am comming off of it now. I am just saying it would be out of control if readily avaliable. I like ohw it can be hard to get as than only people dedicated ot tkaing it properly and not just at random will get it. The only advantage over legitamite use would be a reliable product and no legal repurcutions.

sorry i misunderstood.
but i think LSD will bitch slap anyone disrespecting it. with proper use, it could turn our species around. but its all hypothetical. chance are it'll never be legal.

with proper use, it could turn our species around. but its all hypothetical. chance are it'll never be legal.

That's for a new thread.


A good old fuckin' thread.

sorry i misunderstood.
but i think LSD will bitch slap anyone disrespecting it. with proper use, it could turn our species around. but its all hypothetical. chance are it'll never be legal.


I dont feel that giving everyone acid would be good. But if one wants to do it I think they should be able ot get a licnece of sorts and be only able to od it once in a while and not like every weekend.

Please give me a DETAILED explanation of how it could turn our species around and answer ifu think it is for everyone. Also, I never overdid acid but I once had a hell of a bad trip on 6 hits. Bad trips can happen but still, i bleive it can be worthwhile

does she have an iphone? use a computer? have a hybrid? eat organic? these are essentially things spawned by lsd...

Really I don't think psychs will single handedly solve the worlds problems. Use you'r head and acknoledge what really matters. Some people don't do these things and realisticaly no ammount of drugs will solve that. I think many of you agree that mass lsd is not the best idea. I mean, like, you shouldn't be able to simply go to a pharmacy and buy it. A lice and restrictions may be ok though. I hate to tell you guys but I think the idea that the feds fear mass lsd as much as a nuclear war is bs. Also, I don't think acid or any drugs for that matter are always the cause of great innovations or ideas. I think people have the right to be responsible in their drug use and if oyu get apparent benefits than props to you but why always being up cigs and booze, everyone knows there bad so no need ot justify you'r use of other drugs. LSD is ont harmless though, have you ever had a major bad trip in a public place or talked to a person who has done to much cid, theirs an answer right there. Alternatively I also do acknowledge that with the right person, right place and at the tight time, you can get some benifit and great times but I wouldn't say much more or even any more than you could with you'r mind the way it naturally is.

chance are it'll never be legal.

i would be willing to put everything i own and even things i dont own on the line in a bet going against that sentence. ever? it will definitely be legal at one point in the future, if you think about it. if you really think about it, the future holds endless situations, and chances are that there will be an entire planet full of creatures similar to us that have a society solely based upon the use of lsd. ENDLESS, as in everything you can possibly fathom will happen an infinite number of times in the future. there will probably be another person, exactly like you, and a website called totse, and they will make there name dummy, and some other guy will be kwerjack, and they will debate this exact same thing. its probably happened infinite times in the past, and will happen infinite times in the future, in infinite places. hell, right now, its probably happening infinite times. in places so far away that have never been detected by us, there are other worlds, and an ENDLESS number of worlds, space is so mind-blowingly large, more so than time is mind-blowingly long. they are both infinite, and possibly the same thing, nah thats drug bullshit that last part, but anyway, lsd will be legal, and probably sometime in the relatively near future, if you consider that time is ENDLESS.

My friend Mickey who one day in coming down the gold coast took a thousand too many tabs and realized that car engines can just melt....

He's still convinced

LSD is a very powerful psychedelic, and when used incorrectly, could have dire consequences on your psych. MARIJUANA, a fucking plant that is not nearly as hardcore as LSD, is illegal. Now use your god damn brain and figure out why LSD is illegal. Dumb ass.

I think I just lost a few I.Q. points from this thread.

Hi. Welcome to &totse. The public school system has failed, therefore it's our job.

Who gave you your first cookie, your parents? Well they had probably at least 25 years of "cookie experience" before they gave you your first. And I'm sure your mom looked to make sure the cookie was actually a cookie, and that it was not moldy.

I've been advocating the exact opposite for years - that the incapacity of the populace to form informed consent on the subject of food requires us under moral conscience to forcibly starve them to death until they die. 'n while it's devil's advocate, and informed by a bitter hatred of fucking morons thinking they have the intellectual might to dictate to the whole world (when not even intellectual might has this)... it's also true.

Do you honestly think that his mother/father could give the percentile figures for residues within the peptide fraction? Do you think they could give the biometabolic pathways for each of those residues, the secondary messengers for each of the receptor types where applicable, the postsynaptic neurotransmitter for presynaptic receptors of that type, and whether the residue's metabolite is an exciatory or inhibitory actor through said presynaptic receptor?

Hell, how many people pulled off the street at random do you think could even interpret the phrase "residue percentile of the peptide fraction?"

Or... fuck it... how many people can't grasp the fact that "eating over three thousand calories in fat while sitting on your ass" and the phrase "I'm fat" fucking connect? Apparently, most of 'em...

Now, I'm aware that in the real world, we shouldn't starve people for being idiots, we should just fucking shoot them. However, have you considered what percentage of historic atrocities might have just been a tryptophan deficiency?

'n worse still, some people think the emotional states of eating too little of this, or too much of that, are somehow objectively real.

No, I'm not saying everyone who eats LSD does so under due dilligence. However, I am saying that it has a comparatively simple receptor profile, and that it contains several thousand fewer psychoactive compounds than the average piece of "food."

Let's ask his mom what thujone is, and what plants contain it. Then, let's ask her what its effects on the body are - and if she has ever served it to a small child as food...

(for others reading... it's a potentially lethal narcotic gaba(a) antagonist which lowers the seizure threshold and has a comedown which makes meth look like happytime. Oh... and it's also obscenely fucking carcinogenic, 70% of the oil of sage, and ~10% of the oil of... rosemary, I think it was. I often avoid eating sage, to promote my emotional health.)

So, an argument could be made. 'n it's made from the opposite position, of exactly why we should research everything we do in life. ;)

Guys, I hate to be this way, but I'm not getting any real help here (save Moonius' first post). If that continues to be the case, I'll accept it, but I'd like to try this again.

Whenever my mother and I talk about this I present my argument and her only response is, "It's illegal for a reason."

I am aware that it may cause some psychological harm to some people, but is that the sole reason it's against the law? I don't believe this is the case. I think the US government tied acid to the counter-culture movement (just to clarify, they didn't force the connection themselves, merely observed it). After this connection was made, they launched a propaganda campaign in attempt to maintain their perception of control over the American people. This campaign worked, making people like my mother scared and apprehensive.

If anyone knows of any/can provide me with/can link me to evidence of this, please help me and post.

Thanks.

You are a retard just like forest gump.



seriously; i thought people knew about leary and how badly he failed. can't believe people still think shit like this.

I was considering this, and I decided to keep it simple, because of one conundrum that continues to start shit with me to this day. I figure that when we come down to the down quantum-level, we aren't able to precisely know everything, well, at least until we find something better than shooting photons.

Lol... just to really fuck shit up down that path, google (or whatever) "renormalized particle virtual cloud" or somesuch. Particle physics, which is actually far more my science than chemistry, which I kinda suck at, is some strange fucking shit, and the one thing obvious to me is that we haven't really managed to pierce the veil and find out what the actual shit we've been naming as these particles is...

Take the neutrino, for instance. Did you know that it carries the full force of leptonic identity? The only difference is "charge"... so... what the fuck is this "charge" shit, and perhaps more importantly, how the fuck is it interacting with a god-damned neutrino to associate with it?!?!?

Once you get a question like that, neutron decay makes it pretty obvious that charge is not a property of partial baryon number. Occasionally known as "quarks," but unlike the neutrino, we haven't found a charge-disassociated source of baryonic identity yet. 'n then shit starts to get all fucked up like that...

...but... yeah. Shorter answer is that this is why I don't claim to be competent. I just question the competence of others who try to set standards without definitions, just to put themselves up as humans and others as a subhuman protectorate. Protectionism, incidentally, was a charming military tactic of the african colonial period, and half the reason I neither like nor trust its false noble claims...

...but yeah. I don't know what's going on... I just know that neither do the people who claim to know better than everyone else. ;)

Now... I'm off to pick on littlefoot, in large part on the basis of science.

This is the kind of shit I am talking abot.

Oh, yous was speakin' abot somethin', massa?

People wold not see through bull shit. LSD doesn't act as a judge and jury.

Actually, yes. Yes it does.

You see, LSD is an agonist at the 5HT1A1 receptor. 'n a crazy thing, cross-cultural studies will show you that values of empathy and compassion are universal, while kapu and other social constructs are local.

Funny fucking thing, really... see, the mechanism of kapu is that of, well... fear. Stimulus, response. Your parents see you doing something "faglike" as a toddler, and they yell "don't be a fag" while they beat you, 'n all.

As you might imagine, that's sort of an amygdalic/hippocampal neural association circut, right there. 'n one of the funny things about the 5HT1A1 receptor is that it forces oxytogenic projections from the hippocampus to dump their juice on the amygdala.

Crazy thing about that, is that it's been shown to shut down anxiety-based circuts, and... activate the hardware-embedded cross-cultural values of tolerance, empathy, and compassion. So I'm afraid that, yeah, it will act as judge and jury, because that's the way your brain is fuckin' wired, and that's the way the molecule locks into some receptors and not others.

Explain how it would make random ppl see through bull shit and exactly how all these people would see it in the same way or at least in a similar manor?

Oh, crap, I just did that, every step in the circut.

Funny little thing is that, while it's possible to make drugs that force people to view things in terms of universal values - MDMA is another example of a drug which promotes compassion as a leading value over others - it's actually impossible to make a drug which forces anyone into a specific set of social taboo.

Some things are in the hardware and some things ain't. I suggest you start giving praise to either a Creator or evolution right about now. I don't give a fuck which 'cause they both work for having created this beautiful thing at the nucleus of human architecture.

SERIOUSLY, what the fuck is with people thinking that simply taking a drug like acid will cause great things to happen.

Darwinian humanism. You can actually sit down and draw the neural circutry on a piece of paper 'n all.

'n it just so happens that the molecule does factually plug into very specific parts of the circut. I suppose next you'll be telling us that opiates will not ease physical pain?

You are a retard just like forest gump.

Yeah, but you flunked the science, so at best you're dead-even.

How would they know exactly what would be created or what it would do?

Because the source material has been a known fucking hallucinogen for several fucking millenia?

Shit... that's what drug researchers do. They take a compound of known activity and start testing structural modifications, dude. WTF did you think the answer might be?? 'n did you really think anyone would say "here is an extract of a known bioactive organic. I bet its alkaloidal fraction is completely fucking inert??"

Sure some laws may suck but democracy still is the best form of government one could hope for. Go back to North Korea you fagot.

First of all you fucking moron, wherever the fuck you live, you are not in a democracy. There hasn't been one since athens, and it was debatable. Current options appear to include a republic and a constitutional monarchy.

Technically, I think you're still under constitutional monarchy there, commonwealther... doesn't really matter if your allegience to the crown is a meaningless fucking token, it's still there.

From there, "WE MUST NEVER PROGRESS GB2N.KOREA FAGIT" pretty much marks you as... a fucking moron.

See, there's this funny little thing about kapu. The limbic system, unlike other systems, completely bypasses the frontal lobes. Stimulus, response. Stimulus, response.

In this case...

Stimulus : change.

Response : threats of deportation to prevent any attempts at human progression.

Notice the lack of frontal lobe activity? The fact that you couldn't figure out that you're not actually in your conditioned-buzzword "democracy" despite having fuckloads of dead royalty on your currency? The use of the conditioned buzzword "north korea" despite the fact that the poster never said "gee, I wish things were more like north korea around here," or even mentioned it at all?

Complete... flatline... of executive... function.

In order to operate an organism - at least of the semievolved terran variety of primate - entirely on taboo, a few things have to be eliminated. First, you have to shut off its frontal lobes. Their entire job, in fact, is to provide executive regulation to the limbic system. Luckily for... umm, evil... there is an "immediate action" interrupt designed to keep people from pondering the nature of space and time while a lion chases them, and if you just fuck up your kids hard enough to give them a fuckload of anxiety disorders, those lobes will never come online.

This, incidentally, is why the fascist far-right (as opposed to the libertarian far-right) has always had a problem with "liberal academia." They tend to ask a lot of annoying questions, and point out shit like "wtf wut u just sed makes no sense" and such. Worse still, they're prone to not having bounds on their inquiry... the limitless considerations of the human mind, with no respect for taboo, or what passes for morality, but with inquiry as the highest cause...

Yeah. Engaging that organ which makes us human really fucks shit up, doesn't it?

The other organ which has to be shut off to destroy a human mind like that is the raphe nucleus. 'n that's where the LSD comes in, though crap like meditation or better nutrition or pictures of cute kittens are an equivalent option.

See, this here raephe just plugs into everything, and if it ever comes online, it's going to start activating shit. A taboo- or exclusively culturally-driven society requires that most of the brain end up as, well... useless dead tissue. Often, literally dead - massive lesions are noted in the literature.

'n in addition to, well, sort of nonspecifically activating the crap out of everything, the raephe nucleus tends to gear up the hippocampus, shut down the anxiety response in the amygdala, and flood the formerly-deactivated frontal lobes, not to mention the conduit which allows them to regulate excess in the limbic system, with the dopamine it needs to turn on and send information...

Now, if you threaten people every time they try to progress - as you have done - you might someday succeed in creating the anxiety response that you hope for... the anxiety response which overactivates the amygdala, strains the capacity of the raephe to compensate, and starts burning literal holes of dead tissue into the frontal lobes and hippocampus... maybe.

...but humans have been evolving to actually use any part of our brain which makes us more robust than a fucking planarian since before dogs and humans failed to have the same common ancestor on the chart. You're fighting a losing battle, and quite bluntly, the lesson of history is that the flow of history will always eventually fucking ignore you. That self-same root neural architecture encoded in the genome and expressed in hard wiring is a constant pressure working against you, and one which you cannot withstand. You cannot stagnate the arrow of time, and you cannot take us back. The inquisition - whether or not they elect a pope who went into their order from the Hitler Youth - will never rise like that again. Our pressure is constant, your fear is an illusion, and you are weak.

Besides... we've got some really bitchin' drugs to turn the hardware back on, whenever and wherever we want to. You have fallen. ;)

Besides... we've got some really bitchin' drugs to turn the hardware back on, whenever and wherever we want to. You have fallen. ;)

Right now, pls. I've been waiting.



Or I guess I could just l2read.

that was severe.

...
You realize that you are probably the only one who understands what the hell you are saying. I consider myself pretty intelligent and well-rounded, but that went right over my head. Then again, neurochemistry isn't really my strong point.

Not a flame, just saying that you should consider posting in layman's terms. Totse isn't exactly mensa.

You realize that you are probably the only one who understands what the hell you are saying. I consider myself pretty intelligent and well-rounded, but that went right over my head. Then again, neurochemistry isn't really my strong point.

Not a flame, just saying that you should consider posting in layman's terms. Totse isn't exactly mensa.

i didn't understand the exact mechanics of what he said, but the meaning and intent were very well understood.

Not a flame, just saying that you should consider posting in layman's terms.

You just called yourself a dumbass...I wouldn't worry about it being taken the wrong way........

joeblowsmymindeverytime

LSD is illegal because you touch yourself at night.

LSD WAS legal... by commercialized, do you mean, mass manufactured??? until what, 73 you could buy it at the pharmacy in vials.

The side effect is mind expansion.

But screw your mother, cause she's lived a whole life of ignorance. Do whatever you want.

Yeah thats what I meant and you could buy it at the pharmacy??? Thats amazing...

You just called yourself a dumbass...I wouldn't worry about it being taken the wrong way........

Please. If you understood everything he said, why don't you tell me what this means:
As you might imagine, that's sort of an amygdalic/hippocampal neural association circut, right there. 'n one of the funny things about the 5HT1A1 receptor is that it forces oxytogenic projections from the hippocampus to dump their juice on the amygdala.




... pfft

Yes but most people, even at that time still didn't have a fucking clue what it was and those that did were already caught up in the hippie movement of the time.

Today it's the opposite way around, everyone knows about lsd even if they're uninformed about it.

there is no excuse for the illegal nature of LSD... period. the government does not have the right to protect us from ourselves.

Yes but most people, even at that time still didn't have a fucking clue what it was and those that did were already caught up in the hippie movement of the time.

Today it's the opposite way around, everyone knows about lsd even if they're uninformed about it.

eh, sheltered kids might not...

this one girl at work was like "did you know you can get weed in amsterdam legally?"
i said "yea, you used to be able to get mushrooms too but a few tourist decided to jump off some balconies and it was made illegal"
she said "what would mushrooms do?"
i said "it would make you trip"
then she said "whats that?" and i had a facepalm moment...

how exactly do you explain a trip to someone who has never chemically altered their perception? its like explaining red to a blind person....

how exactly do you explain a trip to someone who has never chemically altered their perception? its like explaining red to a blind person....

it's called secretly doping their food...

Please. If you understood everything he said, why don't you tell me what this means:

If you go up to someone and say "I'm a dumbass", the chances are they aren't going to offended....Wasn't really that complex.......

If you go up to someone and say "I'm a dumbass", the chances are they aren't going to offended....Wasn't really that complex.......

All I said was that 99% of totse won't get what the fuck he is saying. No need to turn it into a personal insult.

Doesnt matter what evidence you present these types of cunts never listen, I have the same type of mom who wont let me get medical marijuana no matter how much evidence I produce to how helpful its been to people and how it has almost 0 negative side effects. with these type of people its better to just do it without telling them anything.

All I said was that 99% of totse won't get what the fuck he is saying. No need to turn it into a personal insult.

You made an irrational statement about the non-existent dangers of LSD (which you preached as true) which was then refuted by Joe Peda, which you claimed made no sense, when it reality, wasn't all that complex...

You said something dumb which was proved wrong and you attempted to refute it by saying it was too complicated to understand........

Do you really not see the problem with that?

eh, sheltered kids might not...

this one girl at work was like "did you know you can get weed in amsterdam legally?"
i said "yea, you used to be able to get mushrooms too but a few tourist decided to jump off some balconies and it was made illegal"
she said "what would mushrooms do?"
i said "it would make you trip"
then she said "whats that?" and i had a facepalm moment...

how exactly do you explain a trip to someone who has never chemically altered their perception? its like explaining red to a blind person....

Most sheltered kids never amount to anything that would make much of a difference...

Anyway, my point was that aslong as lsd is illegal, noones trying to influence the way it's used.

If it was legalized and sold like weed in amsterdam, it'd be a waste.

If it was regulated it'd just become another part of the institution... and fuck giving them anything.

If it was regulated it'd just become another part of the institution... and fuck giving them anything.

Not possible. There is no way LSD could be come integrated into some sort of social norm within our culture...Taking LSD revokes your mental state from culture through ego-death....


Alcohol and cigs are okay because they just make people stupid and content with themselves...LSD unlocks potential and demands action...Something society wishes to suppress (not in some clandestine way, its just the way it is)

Not possible. There is no way LSD could be come integrated into some sort of social norm within our culture...Taking LSD revokes your mental state from culture through ego-death....


You honestly think a chemical alone can be immune to the manipulation of man?

You made an irrational statement about the non-existent dangers of LSD (which you preached as true) which was then refuted by Joe Peda, which you claimed made no sense, when it reality, wasn't all that complex...

You said something dumb which was proved wrong and you attempted to refute it by saying it was too complicated to understand........

Do you really not see the problem with that?
You really need to read the thread more carefully. I didn't claim anything about the dangers of LSD. Joepedo wasn't even responding to MY post.

You honestly think a chemical alone can be immune to the manipulation of man?

uhh... yes. a chemical that does something to your brain, will do it to brain, until the end of time, or our brains change. nothing can change that.

uhh... yes. a chemical that does something to your brain, will do it to brain, until the end of time, or our brains change. nothing can change that.

Let me rephrase it, that was pretty vague.

The experience of any drug, especially psychedelics, that is influenced by another will be subject to manipulation by that person.

To allow the lsd experience to be administered in a therapeutic setting by whoever they decide most qualified would be giving up the freedom to decide your own.

Basically i don't think giving up the freedom that the illicit market provides is worth whatever regulation may promise, the other option of commercialization honestly imo offers the worst of both worlds and a few of it's own little nasties too.

Let me rephrase it, that was pretty vague.

The experience of any drug, especially psychedelics, that is influenced by another will be subject to manipulation by that person.

To allow the lsd experience to be administered in a therapeutic setting by whoever they decide most qualified would be giving up the freedom to decide your own.

Basically i don't think giving up the freedom that the illicit market provides is worth whatever regulation may promise, the other option of commercialization honestly imo offers the worst of both worlds and a few of it's own little nasties too.

that... wouldn't be the case. unless you volunteer to help by being a test patient in studies regarding therapeutic use of LSD, that wouldn't happen...

being able to buy it cheap from the store? that would be great. by 'legalize' i don't mean just for research, i mean for manufacture and sale as well.

You honestly think a chemical alone can be immune to the manipulation of man?

No no no, what I meant was it's not impossible that LSD could be manipulated. But that LSD couldn't be manipulated to serve some sort of societal conditioning purpose (which I believe is the case with alcohol)...

LSD, if taken with the correct mindset (and even sometimes without it) uncovers repressed feelings and subconscious thoughts and gives you a different view on things...I like to think of it as a tool to see through subliminal bullshit...

I didn't claim anything about the dangers of LSD.

LSD is a very powerful psychedelic, and when used incorrectly, could have dire consequences on your psych. Now use your god damn brain and figure out why LSD is illegal. Dumb ass.

Lol wut?

Lol wut?

And I stand by the fact that LSD can have bad consequences when used incorrectly. Blah.. this whole internet argument is retarded.

And I stand by the fact that LSD can have bad consequences when used incorrectly. Blah.. this whole internet argument is retarded.

Yeah so can benadryl but going around and acting like it's dangerous is stupid....


LSD can be used as psychoactive medicine and of course medicine can be abused...But to say that makes it bad is just inane.

This thread has been an interesting read. Especially JoePedo's post.

It almost makes me want to start studying biology or neuro-chemistry or some shit.

Yeah so can benadryl but going around and acting like it's dangerous is stupid....


LSD can be used as psychoactive medicine and of course medicine can be abused...But to say that makes it bad is just inane.
Lol.. benadryl and LSD really can't be compared effectively. I didn't say LSD itself is bad. I said it can have bad consequences when used incorrectly. Stop trying trying to set up a straw man.

By the way, if you don't think dropping acid comes with any danger, then you obviously haven't had and/or witnessed a bad trip. To clarify, this does not mean I think LSD is bad, I'm merely saying that dropping acid comes with risks. If you can't see that, then you really shouldn't be fucking with drugs.

Lol.. benadryl and LSD really can't be compared effectively. I didn't say LSD itself is bad. I said it can have bad consequences when used incorrectly. Stop trying trying to set up a straw man. .

ehh.......


You said this:

Now use your god damn brain and figure out why LSD is illegal. Dumb ass.

Implying LSD should be illegal because it could potentially fuck with you if you mess it up. That's what you said.

That point is fucking stupid. Based on that logic anything that can be potentially dangerous (alcohol maybe? Cigarettes?) should be illegal.

That isn't strawman. I simply took what you said and applied it to other products. I never said LSD was perfectly fine, I just said (by implying your point was wrong) that because it has risks doesn't mean it should be illegal.

ehh.......


You said this:



Implying LSD should be illegal because it could potentially fuck with you if you mess it up. That's what you said.

That point is fucking stupid. Based on that logic anything that can be potentially dangerous (alcohol maybe? Cigarettes?) should be illegal.

That isn't strawman. I simply took what you said and applied it to other products. I never said LSD was perfectly fine, I just said (by implying your point was wrong) that because it has risks doesn't mean it should be illegal.

yea man op has been huffing dust off to long

Lol.. benadryl and LSD really can't be compared effectively. I didn't say LSD itself is bad. I said it can have bad consequences when used incorrectly. Stop trying trying to set up a straw man.

You are aware that diphenhydramine(benadryl) is a deliriant sometimes used "recreationally" (usually by stupid kids that can't better drugs) in very high doses. The results of this are potentially much more damaging than LSD could ever be. I put recreationally in quotes because personally I don't see how the effects as I understand them can be considered fun, but people do it none the less.

Those who use diphenhydramine recreationally take a higher dose than recommended. In smaller recreational doses (100-250mg) the side effects are mild and are mainly limited to sleepiness and labored breath. The mental effects of higher doses (250+mg) are described by many as "dreaming while awake"[10] involving visual and auditory hallucinations that, unlike those experienced with most psychedelic drugs, often cannot be readily distinguished from reality. People who consume a high recreational dose can possibly find themselves in a hallucination which places them in a familiar situation with people and friends and rooms they know, while in reality being in a totally different setting.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diphenhydramine#Recreational_use

So not only is your perception of reality altered, but you have no way to know how exactly or what's real and what isn't. At least on LSD you can tell what is and isn't real.

You are aware that diphenhydramine(benadryl) is a deliriant sometimes used "recreationally" (usually by stupid kids that can't better drugs) in very high doses. The results of this are potentially much more damaging than LSD could ever be. I put recreationally in quotes because personally I don't see how the effects as I understand them can be considered fun, but people do it none the less.

I had a bunch of dumbass friends who would take something like 20-30 tablets when drinking which is why I mentioned it. Even something as basic as allergy medicine can be abused like LSD....

For reference.
implying LSD should be illegal because it could potentially fuck with you if you mess it up.
This was not my point at all, you're just a straw man king arent ya?

Allow me to clarify my original point, since you seemed to have missed it. Marijuana is a very weak psychedelic (or however you want to classify it) and is illegal in most countries. LSD is a very powerful psychedelic, and is also illegal in most countries. LSD has pretty much no chance of becoming legal until marijuana is legal.

LSD will not be legal in my lifetime. Think about the consequences of legalizing it from the government's point of view: Imagine if LSD was legal and readily available to the public. It would create tons of problems. The number of people who would drop acid would go up exponentially. A lot of people would take it without knowing what they are getting themselves into. I would go on but I gotta get studying ;/

For reference.

This was not my point at all, you're just a straw man king aren't ya?

Allow me to clarify my original point, since you seemed to have missed it.


You said LSD is illegal b.c. it can be dangerous. Right here:

LSD is a very powerful psychedelic, and when used incorrectly, could have dire consequences on your psych. MARIJUANA, a fucking plant that is not nearly as hardcore as LSD, is illegal. Now use your god damn brain and figure out why LSD is illegal. Dumb ass.

I know what you're saying in regards to how if marijuana is going to be illegal (a light drug) than of course something like LSD is going to be illegal but judging by your tone and how you personally regard LSD as something that can have "dire consequences" it comes off as if you support it's legal status....

So do you support it's legal status? That would clarify this whole thing....

Edit: I meant to select "question" face, not "sarcastic", fyi...

being able to buy it cheap from the store? that would be great. by 'legalize' i don't mean just for research, i mean for manufacture and sale as well.

Sure it'd be great for those of us who've done it before, but how educated on the subject would a first timer have to be before they're allowed to buy it?
How many doses would be allowed and how big is a dose?
How would drink spiking be controlled?
...The list goes on and most are simply impossible.

See the powers that be don't really give a fuck what you take in your free time, they're just cautious of giving you the power to completely disable their entire active workforce.

No no no, what I meant was it's not impossible that LSD could be manipulated. But that LSD couldn't be manipulated to serve some sort of societal conditioning purpose


Put yourself in the shoes of someone who makes society shiny and silky smooth, it wouldn't be that hard...

100th place holder.... Woohoo!

The Fed and Feds are scared of an LSD outbreak worse then capital on fire. One might also lead to the other.

"Can anyone tell me why LSD is illegal?"

'Cause the man said so.

mr. kitty ruined this thread

joepedo is my new favorite poster






....that is all.

So do you support it's legal status? That would clarify this whole thing....
I'm all for people to drop acid as long as they do it intelligently. However, I think legalizing LSD and making it readily available would be a bad idea. Legalization would cause way too many problems, and I really can't ever see the government legalizing it in my lifetime.

I think legalizing LSD and making it readily available would be a bad idea. Legalization would cause way too many problems.

Even though it isn't addictive, has potential as medicine, is nearly impossible to overdose and compared to other LEGAL drugs it is far far less dangerous....

I know your aware of this because I told you earlier. That simply is why I think your point was/is dumb (due to these facts)....

However, if you want to succumb to irrational propaganda despite being aware of the objective truth there isn't anything I can do about it. Agree to disagree.

Even though it isn't addictive, has potential as medicine, and compared to other LEGAL drugs it is far far less dangerous.... (due to these facts)
Just so you know, these aren't facts, they are your personal opinion. I'm not saying I disagree, but I am saying that these opinions are easily disputed (especially outside of a drug forum).

I'm not using irrational propaganda. Although LSD isn't addictive, it is an extremely powerful drug. Some legal drugs might have more health risks associated with abuse than LSD, but no legal drug measures up to the mind-altering experience LSD produces. The only exception would be a very very high dose of DXM, but DXM actually has legitimate medical use. I agree that dropping acid under the right circumstances can be considered a psychological "medicine" for some people. However, this is very circumstantial, and there is no proof LSD actually cures or treats any illness.

You are severely lacking perspective in your argument. For example, lets say that LSD is legalized tomorrow. LSD sugar cubes can be bought at convenient stores for $20 for anyone over 21. I'll give you a short list of the many problems that this would create:

It could easily be used as a biological weapon. A lot more people would be dosed with LSD without their knowledge. This can literally make a person go insane.

Children would also have easier access to LSD. I already know what you're going to say: legal drugs such as alcohol are already easy to access for children and alcohol is worse for your health/is addictive. But once again, alcohol doesn't even compare to LSD in terms of strength. A 12 year old getting drunk once would have little effect on his future. A 12 year old dropping acid once could permanently fuck up his life. I would say anyone under 16 cannot handle the power of acid.

A lot more people who have no business dropping acid would do so because it is easily accessed/legal. Ease of access would cause people to take it under the wrong circumstances/environment. Education in schools would help, but do people really want tax dollars going to educating children on how to properly enjoy LSD?

I could go on, but I think you get my point. LSD legalization wouldn't work out. It would create more problems than it solves.

Just so you know, these aren't facts, they are your personal opinion. I'm not saying I disagree, but I am saying that these opinions are easily disputed (especially outside of a drug forum).

No. They are facts. I said 4 things, here they are.

Fact 1: LSD is not addictive http://www.thegooddrugsguide.com/lsd/addiction.htm

Fact 2: LSD has potential medical use. KEY WORD. POTENTIAL. That was all I said.

"There is substantial anecdotal evidence that serotonergic psychedelics such as psilocybin (mushrooms) and LSD and LSA d-Lysergic acid amide (Rivea corymbosa seeds) abort cluster periods and extend remission periods.[31][32]"

Fact 3: LSD is nearly impossible to overdose. Here is the chart. As you can see it would be almost impossible to overdose, and I'm quite sure there never has been a case, I was unable to find a source proving/disproving that. It seems IF someone has overdosed it hasn't be recorded, obviously implying it's rare.


Oral LSD Dosages
Threshold 20 ug
Light 25 - 75 ug
Common 50 - 150 ug
Strong 150 - 400 ug
Heavy 400 + ug
LD50 (Lethal Dose*) 12,000 ug

Fact 4: There are more dangerous legal drugs. Cigarettes, I don't need to prove this to you.

Those are all objective. You have to be a fucking retard incapable of reading to think that anything I just said is remotely subjective. Fuck you.




You are severely lacking perspective in your argument. For example, lets say that LSD is legalized tomorrow. LSD sugar cubes can be bought at convenient stores for $20 for anyone over 21. I'll give you a short list of the many problems that this would create:

Straw man. I never said it should be legalized to the point where you can just go buy it at a convenience store (heard of prescriptions???), I just said to consider it too dangerous to be sold is inane because more dangerous drugs exist that are legal and the dangers of LSD are greatly exaggerated.

Ever heard of decriminalization? Also it could be made legal and still be illegal to mass produce it...

It could easily be used as a biological weapon. A lot more people would be dosed with LSD without their knowledge. This can literally make a person go insane.

ARE. YOU. FUCKING. KIDDING. ME? THAT'S why it should be illegal?!!

Oh my fucking god. If someone was making a biological weapon they would use something that kills not something that causes a person to trip. This is the stupidest thing I have ever heard, not to mention that biological weapon manufacturers purchase ILLEGAL materials....This is also a false dilemma logical fallacy.

Honestly, think pragmatically about this...You give people LSD...Great...Maybe some freak out...What did that accomplish? Besides, you could do that now if you wanted, the people who use biological weapons don't need to purchase their materials at fucking drug stores...

Children would also have easier access to LSD. I already know what you're going to say: legal drugs such as alcohol are already easy to access for children and alcohol is worse for your health/is addictive. But once again, alcohol doesn't even compare to LSD in terms of strength. A 12 year old getting drunk once would have little effect on his future. A 12 year old dropping acid once could permanently fuck up his life.

This kid obviously had no problem with it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_V4K7FepKw4

Not to mention that just because something becomes legal that all of the sudden kids will take it immediately. I know 2 people who started drinking before the age of 14 and I went to two different high schools. Not to mention that people receive drug education and are scared shitless of drugs as a young kid. That education would definitely remain, regardless of the legality.

I would say anyone under 16 cannot handle the power of acid.

Obviously, you're wrong as shown in the video. I'm not saying all kids can handle it, but obviously it was a great experience for him and under the right circumstances there is no reason to believe that it wouldn't be the same for other children.

A lot more people who have no business dropping acid would do so because it is easily accessed/legal. Ease of access would cause people to take it under the wrong circumstances/environment. Education in schools would help, but do people really want tax dollars going to educating children on how to properly enjoy LSD?

False Dilemma/straw man.

1.) I never said I think we need to legalize it to the point of commercialization

2.) I said earlier in this thread it should not be mass produced

3.) This doesn't prove LSD is dangerous, simply that it provides an inconvenience towards tax payers...Great fucking point.

4.) We don't teach kids how to "drink or smoke properly" (outside of the 3 hour test thing you take before college, only some do it too) therefore the idea that we would do it for LSD is just stupid and irrational.

I could go on, but I think you get my point. LSD legalization wouldn't work out. It would create more problems than it solves.


I could go on about how fucking stupid you are but I think what I wrote above is substantial evidence.

Dp123

Nice personal insult. I hope you feel better.

Quite simply LSD will never be legalized because it is simply much more powerful than any legal drug. This whole argument is probably pointless, because judging from your posts, it sounds like you want decriminalization not legalization.

Yeah I'm kind of an asshole on the internet.(sorry) I'm sure we'd get along in person if that's any consolation though. Nothing personal, I just didn't agree with what you said...lol...irrational? yes. unnecessary? it's debatable but it bothered me.

No. They are facts. I said 4 things, here they are.

Fact 1: LSD is not addictive http://www.thegooddrugsguide.com/lsd/addiction.htm

Link to an opinion. Although once again, I agree that is not addictive.

Fact 2: LSD has potential medical use. KEY WORD. POTENTIAL. That was all I said.
"There is substantial anecdotal evidence that serotonergic psychedelics such as psilocybin (mushrooms) and LSD and LSA d-Lysergic acid amide (Rivea corymbosa seeds) abort cluster periods and extend remission periods.[31][32]"

LSD as medicine for a headache? Great. There aren't already tons of headache medicines or anything..
[
quote]
Fact 3: LSD is nearly impossible to overdose. Here is the chart. As you can see it would be almost impossible to overdose, and I'm quite sure there never has been a case, I was unable to find a source proving/disproving that. It seems IF someone has overdosed it hasn't be recorded, obviously implying it's rare.
Oral LSD Dosages
Threshold 20 ug
Light 25 - 75 ug
Common 50 - 150 ug
Strong 150 - 400 ug
Heavy 400 + ug
LD50 (Lethal Dose*) 12,000 ug [/quote]
People have OD'd on LSD before. However, it is very rare and I agree with your point.

Fact 4: There are more dangerous legal drugs. Cigarettes, I don't need to prove this to you.

Cigarettes are more harmful to your overall health, but once again, cigs aren't nearly as mind-altering as LSD. I would reckon to say trippin' on acid has much more potential disaster than lighting up a cig.

Those are all objective. You have to be a fucking retard incapable of reading to think that anything I just said is remotely subjective. Fuck you.
I feel sorry for you. You can't even have a rational discussion without e-raging.





Straw man. I never said it should be legalized to the point where you can just go buy it at a convenience store (heard of prescriptions???), I just said to consider it too dangerous to be sold is inane because more dangerous drugs exist that are legal and the dangers of LSD are greatly exaggerated.

That is why I said for example. Prescriptions? Ha. All the proof you had regarding LSD as a "medicine" was for headaches. Ever heard of aspirin? Cigs and alcohol, once again, are more harmful to your overall health with abuse. That doesn't change the fact that LSD is infinitely more mind altering than either of these substances.


Ever heard of decriminalization? Also it could be made legal and still be illegal to mass produce it...
Legalization and Decriminalization are two different topics. I would love for LSD to be decriminalized, but we are talking about legalization here.


ARE. YOU. FUCKING. KIDDING. ME? THAT'S why it should be illegal?!!

Oh my fucking god. If someone was making a biological weapon they would use something that kills not something that causes a person to trip. This is the stupidest thing I have ever heard, not to mention that biological weapon manufacturers purchase ILLEGAL materials....This is also a false dilemma logical fallacy.

Honestly, think pragmatically about this...You give people LSD...Great...Maybe some freak out...What did that accomplish? Besides, you could do that now if you wanted, the people who use biological weapons don't need to purchase their materials at fucking drug stores...

Caps lock is cruise control for cool! Maybe "biological weapon" was the wrong term for it. I'm not referring to super terrorists looking to poison the water supply or something. I'm talking about your average person dosing friends/girlfriends/etc. An unexpected LSD trip is very traumatizing, and can definitely fuck someone's psych up for life.


This kid obviously had no problem with it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_V4K7FepKw4

Not to mention that just because something becomes legal that all of the sudden kids will take it immediately.
Maybe not immediately. However, once LSD begins to saturate the open market, more kids would definitely be dropping acid.

I know 2 people who started drinking before the age of 14 and I went to two different high schools. Not to mention that people receive drug education and are scared shitless of drugs as a young kid. That education would definitely remain, regardless of the legality.[/quote]

I see your point, but around middle school/early high school that DARE shit started to wear off (for me at least). If acid could be easily obtained through legal means, alot more kids would be taking it for sure.


Obviously, you're wrong as shown in the video. I'm not saying all kids can handle it, but obviously it was a great experience for him and under the right circumstances there is no reason to believe that it wouldn't be the same for other children.

One video of a kid who supposedly dropped acid and was fine. That is the definition of a fallacy of composition. In case you missed high school economics, that means what is true for the individual isn't always true for the group.


False Dilemma/straw man.

1.) I never said I think we need to legalize it to the point of commercialization
So you think if LSD was legal than it wouldn't be commercialized? If LSD becomes legal, then a market will be created for it. There is no way around that.

2.) I said earlier in this thread it should not be mass produced

So you want it legalized, but you also want limited production? You do know legalization means that it would be legal to buy and sell? That opens up a brand new market for businesses. LSD businesses would spread like wildfire if it was legalized.

3.) This doesn't prove LSD is dangerous, simply that it provides an inconvenience towards tax payers...Great fucking point.
Why thank you. ;)


4.) We don't teach kids how to "drink or smoke properly" (outside of the 3 hour test thing you take before college, only some do it too) therefore the idea that we would do it for LSD is just stupid and irrational.

Ok, then how would the children know what they are getting into when dropping acid? You would have to. You don't have to take nearly as many precautions when drinking/smoking than with dropping acid.


I could go on about how fucking stupid you are but I think what I wrote above is substantial evidence.
Nice personal insult. I hope you feel better.

Quite simply LSD will never be legalized because it is simply much more powerful than any legal drug. This whole argument is probably pointless, because judging from your posts, it sounds like you want decriminalization not legalization.

Link to an opinion. Although once again, I agree that is not addictive.

It isn't a matter of opinion.

Is the DEA objective enough...

http://www.usdoj.gov/dea/concern/lsd.html

"LSD is not considered an addictive drug"-under long term effects.

LSD as medicine for a headache? Great. There aren't already tons of headache medicines or anything..

No. It's not a headache. This is a seriously fucked up neurological disorder. It's considered by women to be and I quote..."More painful than childbirth"...Those with the disorder need to be put on suicide watch...

And once again, strawman, just because you think that it's pointless medicine doesn't take away that it's medicine. I win again.


Cigarettes are more harmful to your overall health, but once again, cigs aren't nearly as mind-altering as LSD. I would reckon to say trippin' on acid has much more potential disaster than lighting up a cig.

Dude, cigs kill 50,000 people a year WHO DON'T SMOKE ...Long term cig use gives cancer, long terms LSD use...no physical side effects....In fact, same with short term....

That is why I said for example. Prescriptions? Ha. All the proof you had regarding LSD as a "medicine" was for headaches. Ever heard of aspirin?

You didn't look at what a cluster headache is....Arguably one of the most painful DISEASES known....

"Our patients were disabled by the disorder and suffered from bouts of pain from two to twenty times a week. They had found no relief from the usual methods of treatment. Their pain was so severe that several of them had to be constantly watched for fear of suicide. Most of them were willing to submit to any operation which might bring relief."


So, you just look like a fool now. Its a serious neurological disorder.

Cigs and alcohol, once again, are more harmful to your overall health with abuse. That doesn't change the fact that LSD is infinitely more mind altering than either of these substances.

So is meditation? Mind-alteration can be a positive thing.

Caps lock is cruise control for cool! Maybe "biological weapon" was the wrong term for it. I'm not referring to super terrorists looking to poison the water supply or something. I'm talking about your average person dosing friends/girlfriends/etc. An unexpected LSD trip is very traumatizing, and can definitely fuck someone's psych up for life.

News flash: It doesn't need to be legal to do that now. I could go do it to someone right now if I wanted...False Dilemma. It doesn't need to be legalized to be abused.


alot more kids would be taking it for sure.

Good. LSD is a good thing and more people (especially teens) should take it. We've established its only negative side effect is that it can be "mind-altering"...Yeah, thats the point. People have a right to put things in their body at any age as long as they have the information...And if you don't think kids should? It's not your right, ITS THE PARENTS....


One video of a kid who supposedly dropped acid and was fine. That is the definition of a fallacy of composition. In case you missed high school economics, that means what is true for the individual isn't always true for the group.

You said no kid under 12 could handle it. I proved you wrong. Stop changing your argument as if that's what you were saying all along. And if you didn't notice in the video they talked about how they gave it to all their kids...



So you think if LSD was legal than it wouldn't be commercialized? If LSD becomes legal, then a market will be created for it. There is no way around that.

Government Regulation. Such a thing exists.

Ok, then how would the children know what they are getting into when dropping acid? You would have to. You don't have to take nearly as many precautions when drinking/smoking than with dropping acid.

Drinking kills. LSD does not. You are wrong. You are more likely to do something dangerous on alchol than any other drug. You lose. That is why hundreds of thousands of people die a year from drunk driving. Find me a source showing LSD deaths (objective source) I couldn't find one.




Quite simply LSD will never be legalized because it is simply much more powerful than any legal drug. This whole argument is probably pointless, because judging from your posts, it sounds like you want decriminalization not legalization.


No. I want people like you, who are incapable of thinking for themselves to stop accepting propagandist bullshit as truth.

where is joepedo in a multiple-quote-posting thread like this?

also, to support mr. kitty's argument, LSD has more indications than just cluster headaches. its known and was initially used for psychotherapy, which covers numerous situations and various mental disorders.

but i have to say if the government was to approve a psychedelic for cluster headaches, it would probably be psilocybin.
there is much more research on its potential, and sadly, that is what many docs base their opinions on, how "old," "researched," or "used" it is.

Propaganda? Yeah, I just went straight to www.freevibe.com and copy pasted. God forbid someone on BLTC actually be objective with their opinions on drugs instead of the normal (LULZ HEROIN IS GOOD FOR THE SOUL). This argument is going no where. LSD is never gonna be legal because it wouldn't work out. Simple as that.

Propaganda? Yeah, I just went straight to www.freevibe.com and copy pasted.

Are you trying to be sarcastic?

There's the problem. I posted neutral and at times biase sources AGAINST my point....You on the other hand, found one of the more "absitnate teen" website that tells you irrational bullshit. There is nothing objective, scientific or logical about this:

Marijuana can mess you up in school, in sports or clubs, or with your friends. Several studies, including one reported a few years ago in the American Journal of Public Health, indicate that if you're high on marijuana, you are more likely to do things that could embarrass or even hurt you-such as driving under the influence or engaging in risky sexual behaviors. For athletes, THC's effect on timing, coordination, and movement-which can last for several hours-can seriously hurt performance.

If you don't want to post clearly unbiased sources than at least use wikipedia....

^ lol