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Better Living Through Chemistry Discussions of any and all sorts of mind-warping chemicals, pills, booze, mind machines, trippy stuff, current street prices, importing pharmaceuticals, smart drugs, nutrients, herbs, and altered states. Please try to keep your conversations "theoretical" in nature, since this is an open conference.

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 #1 
Old 2008-09-07, 11:10
hydroponichronic hydroponichronic is offline
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Default The answer to tolerance and withdrawl? (all drugs)

So, for those who remember the Phenylalanine thread a while back, there was a lot of good info inside it. One item I just recently remembered was that magnesium was an important part of the formulation because it increased dopamine receptor sensitivity and prevented said receptors from cooking (excitotoxicity). Well, something caused me to remember this recently (crackhead tried to rob me) and so I decided to run a google on the benefits of good 'ol Mg++. It turned up this:

http://www.john-libbey-eurotext.fr/en/revues/bio_rech/mrh/e-docs/00/04/3B/7E/article.md

A basic summary would be to say that this is a compilation of a crapload of studies that say that INCREASING DIETARY MAGNESIUM PREVENTS TOLERANCE AND HELPS WITHDRAWL FOR ALMOST EVERY DRUG OUT THERE. Now, I'm a lazy paranoid fuck who doesn't do hard drugs (the ones that cause tolerance and withdrawl) on any regular basis, but I happen to know that a lot of you, here at BLTC, do. So, I just figured I'd put this out there.
 #2 
Old 2008-09-07, 11:57
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Default Re: The answer to tolerance and withdrawl? (all drugs)

One item I just recently remembered was that magnesium was an important part of the formulation because it increased dopamine receptor sensitivity and prevented said receptors from cooking (excitotoxicity).

Downstream receptors, actually. Namely glutamate, I believe. But yeah.

A basic summary would be to say that this is a compilation of a crapload of studies that say that INCREASING DIETARY MAGNESIUM PREVENTS TOLERANCE AND HELPS WITHDRAWL FOR ALMOST EVERY DRUG OUT THERE.

Damn.

On the one hand, it's a good article in some number of places.

On the other hand, it talks about hard THC withdrawl, and calls PCP an NMDA agonist.

...but, it's a beautiful doc for refs mining, which would probably kick ass. Thanks for bringing it up. 'n you're right, a similar effect to several of the claims could be produced by both dopaminergic resensitization and glutamate-neuroprotectant prevention of anhedonia. There are several dox on NMDA-antagonist prevention of tolerance for amphetamines and opiates, for instance.

Not going to do everything for you, though - preventing or replenishing neurotransmitter depletion is not likely to happen by itself, for instance - and for a lot of these purpouses, taking it while one is using the drugs would work better than solely as an attempted withdrawl-mitigating supplement.

Thanks for the bibliography at the bottom, though. Looks pretty good.

Srsly, there's glaring errors, but there's some interesting shit here...
 #3 
Old 2008-09-07, 21:52
hydroponichronic hydroponichronic is offline
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Default Re: The answer to tolerance and withdrawl? (all drugs)

On the other hand, it talks about hard THC withdrawl, and calls PCP an NMDA agonist.
Srsly, there's glaring errors, but there's some interesting shit here...
I'm hoping these are the result of a careless compiler, not poorly conducted studies. I noted that the PCP innacuraceies are not cited.
...but, it's a beautiful doc for refs mining, which would probably kick ass. Thanks for bringing it up. 'n you're right, a similar effect to several of the claims could be produced by both dopaminergic resensitization and glutamate-neuroprotectant prevention of anhedonia. There are several dox on NMDA-antagonist prevention of tolerance for amphetamines and opiates, for instance.
I've read other studies about NMDA for opiates, but not for stims. I loved this because it just about said Mg was good for everything.
Not going to do everything for you, though - preventing or replenishing neurotransmitter depletion is not likely to happen by itself, for instance - and for a lot of these purpouses, taking it while one is using the drugs would work better than solely as an attempted withdrawl-mitigating supplement.
As for re-uping on neurotransmitters, between phenylalanine and tryptophan, stuff's just about covered. So, would you say between Mg and aminos (+vitamins) most tolerances can be managed? That's what it looks like to me...
 #4 
Old 2008-09-07, 23:58
Aerogone Aerogone is offline
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Default Re: The answer to tolerance and withdrawl? (all drugs)

It has been shown that NMDA receptor antagonists may slow or prevent tolerances development.... yes.

Regular intake of DMX is actually postulated to reverse morphine tolerance, after it has been established. EEK!

But with the whole nutrition thing you probably speak of the Glycine(b) site antagonists which might prevent morphine tolerance.


Personally, i have been taking a daily cocktail with L-phen since about the age of 15 and recently; larger doses of D/L-phen.
 #5 
Old 2008-09-08, 00:07
Aerogone Aerogone is offline
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Default Re: The answer to tolerance and withdrawl? (all drugs)

Personally, i have been taking a daily cocktail with L-phen since about the age of 15 and recently; larger doses of D/L-phen.

and i can safely say that due to this, 2-3 hits of marijuana gives me insane shutter vision, inability to balance, and serious "tripping" and general feelings of going "Skitso"

Some of you, fat blunt smoking, gram a day habitual pot-heads, should take note. Mad
 
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