I want to make it clear I'm not asking so I know what to cut things with.

I'm just wondering.

Some guy at school, the "look at me I'm a dealer" moron said bits of brown in pills were bits of broken beer bottles and not to buy them (must have been pills out there that had brown that he didn't want people buying cause it was undercutting his trade).

And on the Underbelly TV show the narrator said greedy E cooks would cut it with codeine, caffeine or whatever was handy...but I don't really believe a speedy drug would be cut with something like codiene.

'Ecstacy' pills baffle me, what holds them together??

Binders like most pills and ya some times people sell all kinds of things as e. People new to e or that just know the pill is fucking them up will still keep buying them.

wow.....what a dumass. how is somebody that stupid even able to sell drugs?

the people who buy his pills instead of the ones with brown in them are the dumbasses

The ones with the brown are probably cut with jenkem.

Some potent shit right there.

not necessicarily. maybe he's selling decent products with a decent price. although, itf he's saying somthing like that, i doubt thats the case




nice....

Get a test kit.

MDMA's not a particularly speedy drug. Sure, you're probably not going to fall asleep, but cuddling drowsily in a pile on the floor is not unlikely. "Bouncing off the walls" is highly unlikely unless the music really, really kicks ass.

Cold sintering.

A lot of the time, the answer to "what holds them together" is "microcrystalline cellulose." Great stuff. Cakes into a hard mat on with a finger press. Positively glorious.

...however, any micronized sugar can be used as a binder fairly well. As can a few starches. 'n with enough pressure, pure MDMA can be fused into a rod or tablet without any binders at all...

wouldnt it still be fairly crumbly though?

Do you have any sources to support this?

From what ive learned through the years and from the various cooks that I have talked to(and purchased from), pure MDMA cannot be pressed into pills without some sort of binder, even with alot of pressure. I was told that it just simply could not be done because of the MDMA molecule makeup. I'm really curious to read your response about this, intrigued to say the least.

http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/show...mdma/mdma3.jpg



Well...

Let's think about this for a second.

The root question here, if one stop and think about it, is whether or not one molecule of MDMA can associate with another to form a solid substance, as opposed to a liquid or a gas.

Well, the melting point of MDMA HCl appears to vary by water content, but...

http://www.amirali-modjarrad.com/Drug/MDMA.html

...is about 150c. At any point below that temperature, the molecules associate with each other quite readily. Anything in which the molecules cannot associate, cannot be a solid, even at 0k... by definition of a solid. More pertinent to the real world... in chemistry, generally speaking, the more likely a molecule is to associate with a neighboring molecule, the higher its melting point and boiling point will be - the classic example of this is the difference in mp/bp of the carboxylic acid in comparison to its corresponding alcohol or aldehyde; the carboxylic acid readily forms a resonant hydrogen-bonded dimer, and thus the mp/bp is severely elevated. The molecules like to associate. Similar effects allow one to predict the melting and boiling points of a number of substances in relation to their analogs, by the interaction of the molecules.

So, now that we've proved it can be a solid - and at some pretty decent temperatures at that - we've also proved that the molecules can associate in cohesive form... by definition of a solid. Why, I'll even bet it has a crystalline structure!

The only question that could possibly remain, then, is how easy it is to make it do so. This often turns into the question "by what means?"...

...but a simple little challenge for those with a fuckload of molly on their hands. Toss it in a baking dish, spritz it with just a little water, and try to press it together. Experiment on different amounts of water, and see which one works the best.

My guess on what will happen? When the tiny little crystals get a faint amount of moisture on them, they - being water-soluble in the hydrochloride - will faintly dissolve on their surface. Since it's not an AMAZING amount of water, this will mean a thin layer of saturated MDMA HCl solution on the surface of the crystal.

When the crystals are pressed together firmly, they will be forced into contact, which will cause the thin solution layers to be fused together as one. As those thin layers of solution dry, the MDMA HCl will recrystallize into a new crop of crystals, encapsulating the old crystals in entirety... and creating a fused solid.

Of course, this hypotheosis could be wrong, which would teach us new things about the most basic understandings of matter we have, especially on the "phases of matter" parts. 'n there's other ways to test this - a minimal volume of supersaturated solution could be poured over dry MDMA HCl powder and left to dry, for instance, seeing if any clumping occurs.

...but if nothing new is discovered about the nature of matter, it is possible for MDMA salts to be fused into solid blocks. Another way to get there would be the inverse technique - carving a crystal into the shape desired. 'n since it's possible by the laws of physics, it must be attainable.

It may not clump readily under a lightweight press. Enough compression, however, would generate enough heat (in any substance) to melt the material. This would be another way by which it could solidify into a semidisorganized matrix which would form a solid block. This is almost identical to the "trace water" experiment, above, except the surfaces are covered in a very thin layer of molten MDMA instead of a thin layer of MDMA solution.

To date, there is nothing which cannot be pressed. Organic molecules turn into diamond with enough work. The entire geologic category of sedimentary rock is merely compressed rock dust which fused. The noble gases - the hardest nut to crack in the "molecular association" game - can be fused; helium has a freezing point of -272c, and probably can be forced into some sort of bizzare supercritical solid, although this would be batshit insane and heroic at temperatures far above its melting point.

MDMA HCl, otoh, is not nearly so heroic to press as helium. Its crumbliness or solidity would, like most substances, depend primarily on the completeness of the fusion of the mass. Nonetheless, anything which can melt, or which can be dissolved, can be fused by compression into a solid mass, either due to compressive surface melting, or the effects of compression on ambient surface humidity.

...once something can be both a solid and a liquid, by whatever means, the only question remaining is how much effort the endeavor will require. It's that phase transition at the points of contact upon which the process runs, and - one way or the other - it's a reliable effect which can be produced.

The only question is the amount of work it's going to take. 'n as you've probably figured out by reading this, hot-pressing at around 130c would probably also improve performance, by decreasing the remaining energy of phase flux.

'n yes. I admit it. You only got an answer because I wanted an excuse to use the phrase "phase flux" properly in a sentence. Do you know how friggin rare it is that one gets to do that?

plur.

Most solids can be pressed into a tab if enough pressure is involved. If a substance can form crystal lattice, it's pretty much go. The tab would probably be pretty small, though it might prove to be a bit easier IIRC back to basic physics, that pressure is higher if SA is decreased.

As for sources, I doubt there are any MDMA-specific studies regarding pressing pills. There is no way that a study on this topic would get any funding. You might find some helpful research on the DEA web archive.

...but I got to say "improve performance by decreasing the remaining energy of phase flux."

Holy shit, JoePedo....you've outdone yourself again. I learn so much from readin your posts...

i was going to say dextorse, but he summed it up with sugars and starches..

__________________
the road of excess leads to the palace of madness