i tried salvia today (50x) and I did see some sort of elf gnome type figure. Very odd, he was talking to me but i dnt remember anything about it really. The scene reminded me of that scene in A nightmare before christmas where the boogieman ties up santa claus and has him spinning around. And santa claus cant really see the boogie man, he can see the outline of him and his shape but he still can tell its him. I heard like carnival type music, and saw carnie type ppl. very very odd experience, i just wish i could remember more.

Also i was sitting down on a bench. I tried getting up and then i looked back down at the ground and my friend who was tripsitting, was underground (assuming he had had a body) and i could only see some of his face above ground. But his face had an elfy type shape to it. It was like he was mixed with an elf or something.

I wanna try dmt someday, not ready yet. Im not even sure if ill do salvia again.

I synth'd DMT a few times and smoked, insufflated, and orally took it in the form of Ayahuasca.

Always very weird and one time I had a very scary experience, but I always took something from it..


Everyone should try it

I have never done DMT and can't offer anything, but here is something that might spark your interest. Have you read the works of Carlos Castaneda?

He was this anthropology student at UCLA that went to south america to study psychedelic plants and learn about them. On his way back to the states, his guide introduces him to a man known as Don Juan Matus. Don juan is a shaman, and he takes castaneda as his apprentice. He eats a ton of peyote, datura, and smokes mushrooms and records what he sees as Don Juan guides him into the "other world". He has alot of trips and alot of spirtual/mystical/plain weird shit happens to him. His main goal is to teach him to "see", that is, to see the world in a different light (can't really explain this). A very interesting read to say the least. I will post an excerpt from his first peyote experience where he meets "mescalito" for the first time; later though when I find my copy of the book.

Peace.


I stopped reading at this post, in case no one said anything, Carlos Castaneda has been proven to be a pussy. He exaggerates/lies on everything.

He is a good writer though.

Carlos Castaneda has been proven to be a pussy. He exaggerates/lies on everything.

He is a good writer though.

hahahahaha

"has been proven to be a pussy"

that's grand

Personally I have applied the Teachings to my life and they've been of the greatest help/biggest influence. Castaneda's works are my working philosophy for life.

Fuck all of you bitches.

I was just trying to give SN a suggestion on an interesting book that I have recently read.
I know that there have been debates on the truthfullness of his (Castaneda's) writings, but...
Who cares. It could be fake for all I give a shit. They are fun to read.

Eat shit.

HAHAHAHA Well theres the answer to your question SN ^ leftclick-drag through 3pages of useless information....not that i have anything better to give...

Why are you getting so defensive?

Hah, wow, just wow. The most idiotic thing I've ever seen you say. ;) Totse being more trustworthy and informational than bluelight...

Eh. I wouldn't recommend listening to everyone..or even a big part of the posters on BLTC, but once you learn who has knowledge and who's an idiot it can still be a good source of info/opinion. There aren't a whole lot of posters I listen to here, but the advice given by the good ones is far better than anything on fucking BL IMO. There is
an assload of drug myths that infect that forum.


What I am really curious about is the elves/aliens/ entities. What is your opinion on their existence? What purpose do they serve? Where do they come from? There are several view points, and I'd like to hear yours.


That's a really loaded question mainly because until a person ascends no one will ever know for sure...and that's if true understanding even comes at that point instead of one much farther down the cosmic road.

In my opinion they are as real as you or I...and the loss of control of our minds on powerful psychoactives flings us forward into other planes of existance..even if we have no control over what we do there. We're intruding on their space and some take it lightly (such as Cuban's experience with the weird "furball" entities) and only want to investigate while others have a far more undesirable reaction...one that i'm sure the vast majority of seasoned psychonauts here have experienced.

I believe their purpose is alot like ours, very trivial and riddled with questions..I believe they are just "trying to get by" just as we are. Regardless of how alien their worlds/lives may seem, it's just another day to them.

Some may (of course) be doing the work of the god or gods themselves but the vast majority are (I believe) just as "ordinary" as we are in their own way.

This is mainly just a pieced together theory because the things i've seen in my exploits often leave me extremely humbled and bewildered and at a loss for words or even an explanation of what exactly it was I just saw. Any theory could be the correct one but I doubt anyone has had that theory yet. There's just far too much we don't know to throw together a hypothesis that is befitting of what's going on in the cosmos.

They are there, they are aware of me, all my emotions and they welcome me every time I go back.

I fucking pop gates a fuck supermodels.. in my dreams I can also make things materialize now. For example, the last dream I had, I had a rifle but there was no scope. I but my hand over it and I believed a scope would materialize, and sure enough it did. I killed a bunch of soldiers on a tank, however, even though I knew I was dreaming I was still a bit apprehensive about getting shot. I have yet to kill myself in a lucid state, that would be ballzy, but I don't think I would do it. I wonder if I could control my visions like this on DMT?

i died in a dream once. Weird shit. I was in my backyard running into my house, i had my hand on the doorknob. I goto look back at whose chasing me, some dude outta bravehart shot me in the head with an arrow. Its hard to explain how it felt (i guess it doesnt really matter since its a dream). But it resembled the first few seconds after i smoked salvia, when you get the "salvia gravity" or whatever they call it.

In my opinion they are as real as you or I...and the loss of control of our minds on powerful psychoactives flings us forward into other planes of existance..even if we have no control over what we do there. We're intruding on their space and some take it lightly (such as Cuban's experience with the weird "furball" entities) and only want to investigate while others have a far more undesirable reaction...one that i'm sure the vast majority of seasoned psychonauts here have experienced

i so agree with you

I do have two cents to put in.....I have no personal experience with n-n-dmt... But my belief is our bodies work on different frequencies... Our "souls" or energy bodies vibrate on this level that allows us to be apart of this earth and this dimension....When we take psychedelics i feel it works much the same as astral projection by in a sense changing the frequency of our energy bodies and in turn altering the "dimension" we are "tuned" into...i believe these dimensions and other entities exist much as we do and are as real as we do and in the same space that we do... but we have to


"Turn on, Tune in, and drop out."-Timothy Leary

so true!

There are so many people that can not handle these super strong vibrations, though. Which is why Huxley recommended peyote only to be used by those that are already spiritually aware.

Forgive me, brevity does not come easy in such matters.

I've got a tenuous grasp on the notion that there is an external shared consciousness which encompasses, at the very least, all of earth.

This energy, as Yoda might put it, flows through all living things. Physical matter is simply a projection of this energy into our tangible realm. Religions both old and new speak of this in varying levels of abstraction. Eastern religions directly address the topic of universal consciousness. Ancient religions employ a very direct relationship with the spirit world. Even stodgy western faiths speak of an eternal soul and an afterlife free of physical constraints. Bits of this world seem to slip into ours from time to time. Perhaps those who speak in tongues really are channelling the language of the gods, but unable to process it in a mortal mind. Psychic powers? That feeling that you're being watched?

So, then, we exist as energy. Or, we exist in some state other than the present one. For some reason or another, we take physical form. I believe this is a voluntary choice. Life is just a chance to see things from another perspective. Here the concepts of heaven and hell come into play. Morality can be distilled into a very simple concept: "Do no harm." As our actions in this world echo in the spirit world, so do our choices affect our existence once we return there. An evil man will surely see how petty and hurtful his ways were once he returns to a more enlightened form. He will find that he did not grow during his physical life.

Conversely, those who live a virtuous life [and this is not subject to the judgment of man] will have bettered themselves. They will have grown as a soul. And, they may choose to assist others in this quest. It is here that this rambling becomes somewhat relevant to the topic at hand. Are these entheogenic plants sentient? I tend to think that, on a cosmic scale, plants are the more evolved beings. They live in harmony with their surroundings, closer to the earth. They directly process the raw materials around them. Plants are revered by many cultures. Is it possible, then, that caapi or chacruna or even cannabis are actually benevolent gods, come to earth to guide us younger souls? Natural psychoactives feel different to me. While acid may open our perceptual filters and allow one to experience the larger picture, it always remains neutral, not speaking to me like DMT or even psilocybin does.

The smelves, then, would be noncorporeal entities. Ghosts, souls, whatever. But they are spirits which have taken an interest in us, that want to show us things or at least give us an enjoyable ride. I've never felt hostility from one of these beings. Indifference, maybe, but a billion-year soul may not be particularly interested in me, for good reason. Or maybe they've forgotten how to interact on our level.

This theory doesn't address all the questions, obviously. Why does salvia always seem female? If humans are a cruder species, what did we use as "spiritual training dummies" for those billions of years we didn't yet exist? Maybe that's a matter of time perception, or maybe humans evolved to suit the increasing entropy in the universe. I don't know.

And that's it. I don't know. For all that DMT's shown me, I can only glean ideas from it. Glimpses of things, jumping-off points. But I think that the consciousnesses we encounter are real, are good, and do transcend the boundaries of a single person's mind.

And no, I've not tried red spice. I do my extractions with xylene.

Its also worth mentioning how shamans, dedicated buddhist monks, yoga masters, etc. Seem to be able to unlock this realm through meditation and such. Its almost as if certain drugs are a shortcut. But then whats the point of coca? and poppies? i dnt think they bring you anything spiritual.

A great, long post.

You know, sometimes I'm just like "Why the fuck do I go back to BLTC all the time? Bunch of fucking idiots and trolls." Then I read something like this.

this.

Its also worth mentioning how shamans, dedicated buddhist monks, yoga masters, etc. Seem to be able to unlock this realm through meditation and such. Its almost as if certain drugs are a shortcut. But then whats the point of coca? and poppies? i dnt think they bring you anything spiritual.

I've been able to have plenty of spiritual experiences with opiates. And while hardcore cocaine use may be harmful, chewing some cocoa leaves to work long, hard days is nothing but a tool.

no help on the spice, sorry...

but, maybe stop thinking of time as a line and more as a 3-dimensional space. also an apocalyptic catastrophe just subscribes too much to organized mainstream religion. haven't seen jesus pop up in the national enquirer yet...


suit up dude, and take the jump into the void.

When I smoked DMT I had one of the most intense experiences of my life, or pretty damn close too it.

Thirty seconds after I blew my hit out, I didn't think I was feeling anything. Suddenly an entire universe jutted out of the wall in front of me. My breathing became slightly erratic and I started to feel as if I was in the presence of a divine entity, however it was just a feeling. "Geometric Fractal" patterns (quotes because I hate calling it that) began to appear in my line of focus as I absorbed everything around me. Every breath I could muster, I began to feel more and more in touch with all that IS. While still completely in touch with my perception of reality (no alternate universes), I began to see these fractal patterns take shape into two flaming wheels. They began spinning faster and faster with every breath I took. They were spinning in opposite directions and I had this overwhelming feeling that I was watching the inner workings of my reality unfold in front of my eyes.

The thought of this brought me an intense euphoria and I began to understand the basic functions of how human consciousness fits together. These "flaming wheels" began to show me the life line and consciousness streamline of every single person on this planet (me). I saw, felt, and perceived how everybody else thought and felt all at once. I became aware that I am everyone, and everyone is me. Behold the collective consciousness.

During this experience, I did focus in a bit on my own streamline consciousness and tried to see where I've been and where I was going. I did not only see every potential possibility that I am and will be, but every potential possibility that I could've been, how it would've shaped me, and the potential future possibilities those events held.

My "visions", so to speak, caused me to completely turn my life around and see each possibility that my life can hold, therefore leading me to make much better decisions for myself and the people around me. I have done a complete 180* turn around since then, and for god's sake, the results really speak for themselves.

After my experience every single psychedelic experience that I have had has jolted me in touch with this "cosmic consciousness" and allowed me to ungunk my streamline consciousness of all the consciousness filters (or subconscious filters, I guess, as I was unaware of them) that prevented me from being who I truly am. Anybody I want.

Since the experience I have dedicated myself to spreading this idea of Collective/Cosmic Consciousness to people that are, like I was, in need of a way to ungunk their conscious filters to enable them to function in this insanely hurtful, overly industrialized, capitalistic Western Society and showing them that they are part of something much greater than what we define ourselves with.

ThetaReactor, if I had the internet more often than I do now, I'd be very interested in talking to you. You bring a very interesting perspective to the table, much of which I agree with. My email is puck.pottberg@gmail.com if you'd like to send me a messenger handle or something and I'll contact you as soon as I have a permanent internet connection.

Damn, I really want to get my hands on some DMT now.

Have a good night, everybody.

I've been able to have plenty of spiritual experiences with opiates

what opiates out of curiousity? Ive tried oxycodone and i can say there was nothing spiritual about that.

what opiates out of curiousity? Ive tried oxycodone and i can say there was nothing spiritual about that.

taken purely by itself, almost nothing can give you a spiritual experience without some sort of effort on yr part. even something like lsd, dmt, or salvia, if you don't try to make some coherency out of it then it will just be weird cosmic jabber.

I have had what I will call totally legitimate spiritual experiences on heroin, suboxone, oxycodone, hydrocodone, and hydromorphone.

the biggest advantages opiates give me is that they allow me to slow down my breathing so that I can use certain breathing techniques or entirely stop my breath for long periods at a time to catapult myself into the heights.

Good thread, would read again.

taken purely by itself, almost nothing can give you a spiritual experience without some sort of effort on yr part. even something like lsd, dmt, or salvia, if you don't try to make some coherency out of it then it will just be weird cosmic jabber.

I have had what I will call totally legitimate spiritual experiences on heroin, suboxone, oxycodone, hydrocodone, and hydromorphone.

the biggest advantages opiates give me is that they allow me to slow down my breathing so that I can use certain breathing techniques or entirely stop my breath for long periods at a time to catapult myself into the heights.

thats a great point. Im def gonna think about that next time some comes around.


even something like lsd, dmt, or salvia, if you don't try to make some coherency out of it then it will just be weird cosmic jabber.

couldnt agree more. I knew some nont-spiritual, no intelligent or deep ppl who tried salvia. And they all got scared witless and hated it.

I'm glad to see this post is still holding strong and is at least just one page down. I went out of town for a few days and actually though of this subject matter a bit while I was gone. Easily the best thread seen on BLTC in a while.

This subject matter has always been a very eye opening and rewarding thing to ponder...and input from everyone has even put some brand new theories into my noggin...and those theories I have already pondered have been "reinitialized" so to speak.


Excellent posts from Theta, Puck, SN and all of the others have inspired me to do more "research" of my own (be it through study or personal experience) and has left me wishing I had made a far more legnthy post to share with everyone. My three paragraphs pale in comparison in both quality and quantity :P. If subject matter like this appeared more often it may lead to a much more intelligent line of threads here on BLTC...because the trolls that populate are far too bewildered to even attempt a hijack of something as interesting as this.

One exerpt in particular (posted by theta) really stuck out to me as it has been the whole basis of my spirituality for around 3 years now.


So, then, we exist as energy. Or, we exist in some state other than the present one. For some reason or another, we take physical form. I believe this is a voluntary choice. Life is just a chance to see things from another perspective. Here the concepts of heaven and hell come into play. Morality can be distilled into a very simple concept: "Do no harm." As our actions in this world echo in the spirit world, so do our choices affect our existence once we return there. An evil man will surely see how petty and hurtful his ways were once he returns to a more enlightened form. He will find that he did not grow during his physical life.

Conversely, those who live a virtuous life [and this is not subject to the judgment of man] will have bettered themselves. They will have grown as a soul. And, they may choose to assist others in this quest.

I had explained my beliefs and why I only hold my particular brand of religion to people in a very
similar way..with maybe a few minor details different. For some time now I have looked at existance (pertaining to our immortal selves and not out mortal forms) as if they are working their way up a cosmic ladder of sorts. The lower sections being of a very minor bit of intelligence (such as human beings as they are now only using 10-12% percent of their minds). Those that are virtuous and rightious will ascend this ladder, their minds becoming more developed/enlightened and their forms taking new shapes as they move along. Those that do the right things are allowed to continue their journey upwards while those who do the wrong things may either stay in place or be set back in their existance.

I never really understood why some believe that the words that come out of your mouth (such as Fuck, Bitch or Goatse) would be such a huge concern of an omnipotent all powerful being. This is just one of the many different "sins" that seemed to be of trivial concern to a being of such evolved intelligence and power such as the god that resides over this planet. Eternal damnnation for questionable actions never made a whole lot of sense to me. Therefore, I never found comfort in hearing these words taken from the bible. This (among other things) is what eventually drove me to Athieism..which I eventually found out (through the use to psychoatives as well as serious thought) made even less sense than believing in a diety or dieties. This is all one cosmic accident? I think not.

Is there a top to this "ladder"? I believe so. Those who live out their soul's existance helping others on their paths (for what could be Eons) I believe will be rewarded with true elightenment in its purest form. Total understanding. Once this happens I believe any number of things could take place. From choice of where to spend eternity in peace to being allowed to act as a"diety" yourself and assist in the circle of life all throughout the cosmos. This goes to my belief that there isn't just one god/totally evolved mind. I believe there is one that sits in the center of it all..a dieties diety of sorts that was there from the beginning..but I also believe there are others. Others that are given the ultimate gift for their long and perilous journey through the trials of existance.

Has anyone else found deep spirituality through these means? Applied what you've learned from these psychoactive tools that are too often insulted and considered to be only drugs?

Anyone else been to agartha while on DMT?

This is all very good shit. Thank you all so much. I am still in the middle of my thought process, so I have nothing of value to contribute at this point, that isn't all confused and garbled the fuck up.

That just means your thinking in the right direction :). I know exactly how you feel dude.

"Machine Elves" is far to 'human' to describe anything involved in DMT. The only word that can do DMT some kind of justice is 'Alien'. Everything is so fucking alien. An alien indescribable head fuck. I have seen an entity, the same entity is there every time. The whole trip is one massive entity, sort of malevolent but again more alien than anything else.

on a high but not totally as high an LSD trip as I've had, I had the thought which totally summed up the experience of LSD, and life in general: alien sex death cult.

I think the term Machine Elves was used to more effectively describe what he was talking about. I do agree that everything is alien...but it's far easier to visualize something (that looks elven mind you) if it's described as a Machine Elf rather than a Machine Alien.

I think the term Machine Elves was used to more effectively describe what he was talking about. I do agree that everything is alien...but it's far easier to visualize something (that looks elven mind you) if it's described as a Machine Elf rather than a Machine Alien.

Of course when we are back in this world we have to try and draw comparisons to things people understand like elves. Mckenna saying machine elves is excellent because it sums up perfectly the 'mischievous' nature of the beings or the experience. The point I was making was not that the word 'elves' should be replaced with 'aliens' but that due to the experience being so damn alien to us that no word will do.

Even the concept of an 'entity' is completely turned on its head when you take DMT. I mean there not physical apparitions because what the fuck does physical mean when you are a discorporated spirit travelling through multiple universes at warp speed.

In short there is no good frame of reference in the real world for the DMT world, but we can still try.

couldnt agree more. I knew some nont-spiritual, no intelligent or deep ppl who tried salvia. And they all got scared witless and hated it.

Salvia is a great ego-smasher.

If you don't already know your place in the universe, the experience will be unpleasant.

There is a good test to determine whether or not you should try salvia:

If you think Hannity and Colmes is a good show... do not try salvia. Get yourself a 12-pack of light beer instead. Trust me on this.

Some really great posts in this thread so far. I have yet to try nn-DMT but I have had some very intense entity experiences with ayahuasca, acid, salvia, and psilocybin.

The first time I ever took LSD I remember a very distinct feeling of becoming aware of the spirit world. I could feel the presence of entities around me and I even had a hallucination of small gray skinned creatures with yellow eyes hiding in trees looking at me. I've never had much or any entity contact on acid since then but I still get a weird spirit world vibe sometimes.

Salvia does much stranger things to me though. The first time I smoked it I was also on LSD and I achieved a definite universal consciousness type of experience. No entities but the entire world was covered in eyes and I could see in more than three dimensions. Everything was infinites upon infinites. I was not only myself but the sky and the trees. I could even look at body through the eyes of my friends and hear their thoughts. I often feel a unity with everything on psychedelics but this was much more intense than the same feeling you'd get on acid or shrooms alone. Later on with further salvia experimentation, I finally experienced entity contact in the way that Terence McKenna describes. During one particular trip I became aware of the most horrifying and indescribable alien deities that fed off my mental energy by inserting a long pincer down my spine from some other plane of reality. I was absolutely horrified until an African witchdoctor saved me and revealed himself as my "spirit guide." I've never had another salvia trip like this one since, but I have seen or felt the presence of my spirit guide on other trips.

Perhaps my most interesting experience with entities though was when I took ayahausca and acid together. The spirit world feeling that I get sometimes on acid was made into a full reality by the ayahuasca. I literally descended into some kind of land of the dead full of demons and spirits and angels and gods. Unfortunately I forgot a lot of the details of what I experienced in the land of the dead once I came down a bit but I definitely remember it being quite overwhelming.

I've also had contact with a many armed goddess on mushrooms who whispered the meaning of life in my ear, but that's a whole big story which I won't get into now. I don't really know yet what I think of these entities or whether or not they come from inside my mind. Particularly the salvia creatures felt quite alien and outside of myself. It's all very interesting stuff and I hope to shed more light on the matter by experimenting with DMT in the future.

The right chemical, the right sound, the right image, the right emotion..........


Somewhere in all this fucked up ness there is an answer. I am changed, and continue to change. Fuck I wish I had the right words to express these thoughts.

it goes beyond thoughts, emotions, senses...what is left?

true mystery lies there.

It took me about four months to really be able to verbalize what happened in my experience.