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Better Living Through Chemistry Discussions of any and all sorts of mind-warping chemicals, pills, booze, mind machines, trippy stuff, current street prices, importing pharmaceuticals, smart drugs, nutrients, herbs, and altered states. Please try to keep your conversations "theoretical" in nature, since this is an open conference.

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  #1   Add Twisted_Ferret to your ignore list  
Old 2008-08-12, 03:04
Twisted_Ferret Twisted_Ferret is offline
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Mars
Thumbs up SSRIs vs benzos

I'm going to the doctor tomorrow to try to convince him to prescribe me Valium, Xanax, etc. No, not for recreational use; I have social anxiety and panic attacks out of ass, and I'm tired of just trying to deal with it. My questions: a.) What can I say to make him more likely to prescribe me benzos? Any tips? I've heard it's a bad idea to say you've tried them illegally before and they worked, because then it makes it seem more like you're just addicted. Would it be equally suspicious to tell him you don't want SSRIs? b.) If he does try to prescribe me an SSRI, do you think I should try it? My mother has had baaad experiences with them and I'm really not convinced that they help for anything... but I'm not a doctor.

Thanks.
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  #2   Add Daran to your ignore list  
Old 2008-08-12, 03:09
Daran Daran is offline
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Default Re: SSRIs vs benzos

No, you don't want to tell him that you don't want SSRI's. If he does prescribe them to you, just wait a month until your next appointment and tell em that they're not helping. He may tell you that they take a couple of weeks to take effect, so you may have to wait 2 months. If he doesn't do it then, find another doctor.
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  #3   Add kwerjack to your ignore list  
Old 2008-08-12, 03:10
kwerjack kwerjack is offline
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Default Re: SSRIs vs benzos

dont take the ssris no matter what. tell him you have done your research and know other people who have had bad experiences and that they just never work for anxiety anyway unless its associated with depression.

ask him to help you look for a non antidepressant, non tranquillizer drug. ask him about buspar and lyrica, i cant think of any others right now. i havent had a panic attack since taking lyrica, and i used to have bad ones. it helps a lot with anxiety too.
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  #4   Add stealth_15 to your ignore list  
Old 2008-08-12, 03:16
stealth_15 stealth_15 is offline
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Default Re: SSRIs vs benzos

You will probably be prescribed both, if you give him the symptons of the associated disorders you pentioned. Shouldn't be hard, wasn't for me, and as other people are saying, its your choice to take the ssri, then actually *gasp* CAN help sometimes...
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  #5   Add Piles Of Crack to your ignore list  
Old 2008-08-12, 03:19
Piles Of Crack Piles Of Crack is offline
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Default Re: SSRIs vs benzos

Just tell him you were on SSRIs before and they make you aggressive and agitated.
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  #6   Add Hazey to your ignore list  
Old 2008-08-12, 04:53
Hazey Hazey is offline
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Default Re: SSRIs vs benzos

I thought you wanted something for anxiety man? Hahaha. Not to get high with.

If you have a legitimate problem, get the SSRIs. Although, I hate them - they seemed to work for me for a little while, and many people have had positive experiences using them.

Say you've either read a lot about SSRIs, or that you know of people on them [you don't like their experiences] or were warned against using them.

Say your anxiety attacks come in waves and you just need something to calm down when they get out of control [once in awhile.] That's how I got xanax. I said that RARELY my anxiety would become to much.
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  #7   Add tripod_dog to your ignore list  
Old 2008-08-12, 04:57
tripod_dog tripod_dog is offline
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Default Re: SSRIs vs benzos

Quote:
Originally Posted by Piles Of Crack View Post
Just tell him you were on SSRIs before and they make you aggressive and agitated.
prozac actually did that for me. i got sent to a Behavioral Center for Health because i did such crazy angry things on prozac. i kicked down my moms door to get to sum klonopin. then i started threatening and scaring my family so they sent me away for ten days... so dont use prozac because, in my opinion, it makes things worse, not better.
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  #8   Add Street_Pharmacist420 to your ignore list  
Old 2008-08-12, 05:47
Street_Pharmacist420 Street_Pharmacist420 is offline
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Default Re: SSRIs vs benzos

Quote:
Originally Posted by Twisted_Ferret View Post
I'm going to the doctor tomorrow to try to convince him to prescribe me Valium, Xanax, etc. No, not for recreational use; I have social anxiety and panic attacks out of ass, and I'm tired of just trying to deal with it. My questions: a.) What can I say to make him more likely to prescribe me benzos? Any tips? I've heard it's a bad idea to say you've tried them illegally before and they worked, because then it makes it seem more like you're just addicted. Would it be equally suspicious to tell him you don't want SSRIs? b.) If he does try to prescribe me an SSRI, do you think I should try it? My mother has had baaad experiences with them and I'm really not convinced that they help for anything... but I'm not a doctor.

Thanks.
You obvisouly want a script for benzos so you can abuse them, it's evident in your post despite the fact that you tried to cover it. If you truly wanted relief from your panic attacks and 'social anxiety', you would be open to any medication that your doctor would prescribe to alleviate your problems, whether it be an SSRI or a benzo. Just because your mother had a bad experience doesnt mean for a second that they will effect you in the same way. But no, you just want benzos, namingly 2 of the most abused benzos in the US. People like you fucking disgust me. I honestly hope that you do get a benzo script and get addicted to those little bastards, you fucking deserve it.

Fuck you
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  #9   Add Twisted_Ferret to your ignore list  
Old 2008-08-12, 10:37
Twisted_Ferret Twisted_Ferret is offline
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Mars
Thumbs up Re: SSRIs vs benzos

A big huge pile of thanks and flowers (or drugs... ) for everyone who posted in this thread!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daran View Post
No, you don't want to tell him that you don't want SSRI's. If he does prescribe them to you, just wait a month until your next appointment and tell em that they're not helping. He may tell you that they take a couple of weeks to take effect, so you may have to wait 2 months. If he doesn't do it then, find another doctor.
Thanks. This was my plan; glad to see it's workable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kwerjack View Post
dont take the ssris no matter what. tell him you have done your research and know other people who have had bad experiences and that they just never work for anxiety anyway unless its associated with depression.

ask him to help you look for a non antidepressant, non tranquillizer drug. ask him about buspar and lyrica, i cant think of any others right now. i havent had a panic attack since taking lyrica, and i used to have bad ones. it helps a lot with anxiety too.
Thanks, I'll ask about those. And you listed the exact reasons I don't want an SSRIs - everything I've read about them has been bad, both in the experiences others have had and in general information.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stealth_15 View Post
You will probably be prescribed both, if you give him the symptons of the associated disorders you pentioned. Shouldn't be hard, wasn't for me, and as other people are saying, its your choice to take the ssri, then actually *gasp* CAN help sometimes...
That'd be nice. I'm really leery of them, but I guess if they're so widely prescribed they can't be deadly...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Piles Of Crack View Post
Just tell him you were on SSRIs before and they make you aggressive and agitated.
Thanks! Just the kind of tip I was looking for.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hazey View Post
I thought you wanted something for anxiety man? Hahaha. Not to get high with.

If you have a legitimate problem, get the SSRIs. Although, I hate them - they seemed to work for me for a little while, and many people have had positive experiences using them.

Say you've either read a lot about SSRIs, or that you know of people on them [you don't like their experiences] or were warned against using them.

Say your anxiety attacks come in waves and you just need something to calm down when they get out of control [once in awhile.] That's how I got xanax. I said that RARELY my anxiety would become to much.
Street_Pharmacist could learn a lot from you... you offered both your own opinion and the information I needed! Thanks a lot.

If BLTC thinks SSRIs are worth trying, I might give them a shot. I recall a thread a while back by some guy who claimed Prozak had messed his head up for life, but apparently that's not a common occurrence...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Street_Pharmacist420 View Post
You obvisouly want a script for benzos so you can abuse them, it's evident in your post despite the fact that you tried to cover it. If you truly wanted relief from your panic attacks and 'social anxiety', you would be open to any medication that your doctor would prescribe to alleviate your problems, whether it be an SSRI or a benzo. Just because your mother had a bad experience doesnt mean for a second that they will effect you in the same way. But no, you just want benzos, namingly 2 of the most abused benzos in the US. People like you fucking disgust me. I honestly hope that you do get a benzo script and get addicted to those little bastards, you fucking deserve it.

Fuck you
This is a forum dedicated to recreational drug use. I freely admit I "abuse" many different chemicals... but not one of them is a benzodiazepine. I named the two most abused benzos because they're also the most common benzos, the only ones I'm familiar with, and the ones Wikipedia claims will most likely be prescribed for anxiety. I'm open to any medication that will help - kwerjack named some I'm looking up right now - but I don't think SSRIs will help, because I know a lot of people who have told me to stay far, far away from them.

Not that I have to justify myself to you.
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  #10   Add Ezekiel35 to your ignore list  
Old 2008-08-12, 12:19
Ezekiel35 Ezekiel35 is offline
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Default Re: SSRIs vs benzos

Quote:
but I don't think SSRIs will help, because I know a lot of people who have told me to stay far, far away from them.
That's because a lot of people are too pathetic to get through a few weeks of side-effects, then tell the world the drugs are ineffective.

If you take benzos, your problems will disappear for as long as you can escalate your dose for, then you'll go through withdrawal and be left in a worse state than the beginning. You don't learn anything on benzos, so you'll revert to how you were before as soon as the dose wears off.

I went to the doctor a while ago in search of benzos when addicted to about 5mg clonazepam/day, but was refused. Pretty much all doctors would refuse these days, although I don't live in a country with a health system based on profit.

SSRIs are currently the only drugs that can lead to long-term solutions for anxiety/depression. They don't kill your memory like benzos, so combined with CBT can actually help past when you're eventually taken off them.

Neither are really long-term solutions more than for a few years, but SSRIs actually have a purpose in dealing with the problem instead of than just giving you amnesia, along with destroying any education/work you had planned.

If you think they're totally ineffective pharmacologically, would you say the same about MDMA? You could compare SSRI effects to low-dose ecstasy, and not many people would deny its antidepressant/anxiolytic benefit.

With all that said though, it's not a bad idea to get some bennies for occasional use (so you don't avoid things) before any other treatment starts working, as long as you can control yourself. If you begin on SSRIs, it's really not that hard to get a few weeks of valium/whatever until it starts helping.

Last edited by Ezekiel35; 2008-08-12 at 12:28.
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 #11 
Old 2008-08-12, 12:21
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Default Re: SSRIs vs benzos

SSRI's are pretty good for anxiety and shit. I'm on Strattera for ADD and I can't even feel physical pain let alone emotions. I can still get angry as fuck when phones start ringing or people started asking me questions though.
 #12 
Old 2008-08-12, 14:47
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NJ
Default Re: SSRIs vs benzos

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrSparkle
SSRI's are pretty good for anxiety and shit. I'm on Strattera for ADD and I can't even feel physical pain let alone emotions. I can still get angry as fuck when phones start ringing or people started asking me questions though.


well atomoxetine is an NRI so i dont see how this is relevant...
 #13 
Old 2008-08-12, 14:54
branflakes branflakes is offline
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Default Re: SSRIs vs benzos

SSRIs are currently the only drugs that can lead to long-term solutions for anxiety/depression.

I'm hesitant to agree but I kind of agree. My experience with SSRIs has been pretty expansive -- I used to get anxiety often and went through a time of depression and I've increased and decreased my dosages without professional "supervision" countless times, skipped doses, and taken many drugs while on my SSRIs.

I've considered that SSRIs are a helpful tool for anyone going through a period of emotional turmoil or extreme self-reflection (aka high school). However, I don't know if SSRIs got me through those unstable teenage years or if they caused them to be that way (radical, sociopathic). Now that I'm out of high school, I've managed to completely wean myself from Zoloft and I'm happier than ever and, once again, I'm lightly distraught at the question of causation vs. correlation with SSRIs.

My advice to you: try as many ways as possible to get over your anxiety problem. I think that SSRIs may help you stabilize your life and let you look at your panic in a more objective way so you might want to head down that path. They're not all that bad once you get used to them, you just have to start slow with dosages (your doctor should help you with that). It takes about a week or two for you to get through the initial "loopy" period when your mind and body feel completely out-of-whack but with a little bit of exercise, good nutrition, and friends to talk to, you should be able to manage relatively easily.

However, if you still want to stick to benzos, you can. One of the downsides is that they mostly mask the problem, sorta like SSRIs, but even more so. So if you do take them and you stop, not only will you have a tolerance and worse attacks from the withdrawal, you still won't know how to deal with your anxiety!

SSRI's are pretty good for anxiety and shit. I'm on Strattera for ADD and I can't even feel physical pain let alone emotions. I can still get angry as fuck when phones start ringing or people started asking me questions though.

Strattera isn't an SSRI.
 #14 
Old 2008-08-12, 15:12
Regular
 
NJ
Default Re: SSRIs vs benzos

Strattera isn't an SSRI.

See above post.
 #15 
Old 2008-08-12, 22:33
Street_Pharmacist420 Street_Pharmacist420 is offline
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Default Re: SSRIs vs benzos

This is a forum dedicated to recreational drug use. I freely admit I "abuse" many different chemicals... but not one of them is a benzodiazepine. I named the two most abused benzos because they're also the most common benzos, the only ones I'm familiar with, and the ones Wikipedia claims will most likely be prescribed for anxiety. I'm open to any medication that will help - kwerjack named some I'm looking up right now - but I don't think SSRIs will help, because I know a lot of people who have told me to stay far, far away from them.

Not that I have to justify myself to you. :p

You just cant make up your mind, can you kid?
Hazey just told you the information you wanted to hear so that you can try to bullshit your way to a benzo script; many others here have told you to try SSRI's yet you pretty much turn a blind eye to them. If your so open to anything to help then why are you trying to avoid SSRI's like the jews wanted to avoid Auschwitz?

FYI, valium and xanax arent the most common benzos, nor are they the most likely to be prescribed for anxiety. No doctor in their right mind would prescribe you xanax because you have social anxiety, simply because of the fact that it lasts for such a short time period and you would need to big of a dose in a daily basis. Valium and Ativan are the most common benzos used worldwide, and ill tell you that if your expecting to go into a shrinks office and tell him you have 'anxiety; and expect to walk out with a benzo script then your a fucking fool.

And im sure when you were young, folks told you to stay far away from drugs didnt they? There bad news, they will destroy your life, etc.. Obviously you didnt listen, so why would you listen to some 'supposed' people who told you to stay away from SSRI's? Fact is you hear what you want to hear, and I still stand by my assertion that your a fucking douchbag

~dU$tY
 #16 
Old 2008-08-12, 23:16
Twisted_Ferret Twisted_Ferret is offline
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Default Re: SSRIs vs benzos

Helpful information
Helpful information
Thanks guys, your posts were a huge help. :) I'd still like to use benzos for specific situations and attacks; I have constant low-grade anxiety, which I guess is what SSRIs are supposed to help with, but some things (like my upcoming trip) are just impossible for me to force myself to do. :( I've tried a lot of mental tricks, like just making myself go out and forge through, and it HAS helped. I never feel better, which is why I want the medication, but I am able to, say, go buy milk at the store now - which is something, at least.

SSRI's are pretty good for anxiety and shit. I'm on Strattera for ADD and I can't even feel physical pain let alone emotions. I can still get angry as fuck when phones start ringing or people started asking me questions though.
Well, even though it's apparently a NRI, it sounds pretty good to me... :D

You just cant make up your mind, can you kid?
Hazey just told you the information you wanted to hear so that you can try to bullshit your way to a benzo script; many others here have told you to try SSRI's yet you pretty much turn a blind eye to them. If your so open to anything to help then why are you trying to avoid SSRI's like the jews wanted to avoid Auschwitz?
I'm not sure where I contradicted myself there. Didn't you read the rest of my post? Confused I said I'd give them a try, since they apparently do help. I'm just leery of the side effects (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selective_serotonin_reuptake_inhibitor#Adverse_eff ects), and I think for good reason.
 #17 
Old 2008-08-12, 23:23
Street_Pharmacist420 Street_Pharmacist420 is offline
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Default Re: SSRIs vs benzos

I'm not sure where I contradicted myself there. Didn't you read the rest of my post? Confused I said I'd give them a try, since they apparently do help. I'm just leery of the side effects (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selective_serotonin_reuptake_inhibitor#Adverse_eff ects), and I think for good reason.


Trust me on this one bro, any negative side effects you may receive from SSRI's are a BLESSING compared to benzo addiction. I don't mean to be a dick, but use benzos as a last option always. For those of us who are in the grip of this hell, it makes no sense for people to go out of their way to score a benzo script when there are other first line treatments that are much better for your health then benzos are. Best of luck with the anxiety, I know how you feel, just alot worse.

~dU$tY
 #18 
Old 2008-08-12, 23:37
absolutecaliber absolutecaliber is offline
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Default Re: SSRIs vs benzos

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hazey
I thought you wanted something for anxiety man? Hahaha. Not to get high with.

If you have a legitimate problem, get the SSRIs. Although, I hate them - they seemed to work for me for a little while, and many people have had positive experiences using them.

Say you've either read a lot about SSRIs, or that you know of people on them [you don't like their experiences] or were warned against using them.

Say your anxiety attacks come in waves and you just need something to calm down when they get out of control [once in awhile.] That's how I got xanax. I said that RARELY my anxiety would become to much.


Sup nigga
 #19 
Old 2008-08-13, 02:03
Hazey Hazey is offline
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Default Re: SSRIs vs benzos

Absolute - Thuzz is what it was, what it do player?

How you doing?

=D
 #20 
Old 2008-08-17, 20:19
Ezekiel35 Ezekiel35 is offline
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Default Re: SSRIs vs benzos

I'm just leery of the side effects (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selective_serotonin_reuptake_inhibitor#Adverse_eff ects), and I think for good reason.

From that list, I'd say only the bold ones below last longer than the first few weeks for most:


* anhedonia
* nausea
* drowsiness or somnolence
* headache
* clenching of teeth
* extremely vivid and strange dreams
* dizziness
* changes in appetite
* weight loss/gain (measured by a change in bodyweight of 7 pounds)
* may result in a double risk of bone fractures and injuries
* changes in sexual behaviour (see the next section)
* increased feelings of depression and anxiety (which may sometimes provoke panic attacks)
* tremors
* autonomic dysfunction including orthostatic hypotension, increased or reduced sweating
* akathisia
* liver or renal impairment
* suicidal ideation (thoughts of suicide)
* Photosensitivity (increased risk of sunburn) (Use protective clothing, such as long sleeves and hats, and sunscreen to decrease the risk of sunburn.)

Some of those are specific to individual SSRIs -- some are sedating, some are more 'activating', some can lead to weight-gain, others to weight-loss. You can probably avoid some side-effects by choosing the right drug.

Also, you should probably ignore the part about liver/kidney impairment.

Remember they are anti-anxiety/anti-depressant meds, so if they made most people suicidal and depressed past a few weeks, they'd be pretty crap.
 #21 
Old 2008-09-09, 02:31
Twisted_Ferret Twisted_Ferret is offline
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Default Re: SSRIs vs benzos

So my appointment got delayed, but finally I've gone. He's got me on Lexapro and Clonazepam (short term). Yes, I listened to Totse and have decided to give the SSRI a try. :p The Clonazepam has been a godsend; I'm hoping to get a stash for "emergency" use (i.e. have to give a speech or something :P).

Anyone have any experiences with Lexapro?

Trust me on this one bro, any negative side effects you may receive from SSRI's are a BLESSING compared to benzo addiction. I don't mean to be a dick, but use benzos as a last option always. For those of us who are in the grip of this hell, it makes no sense for people to go out of their way to score a benzo script when there are other first line treatments that are much better for your health then benzos are. Best of luck with the anxiety, I know how you feel, just alot worse.

~dU$tY
Thanks man. I appreciate the thought. As said above, I've got SSRIs for the long term now... still nervous, but what the heck.
 #22 
Old 2008-09-09, 04:49
Street_Pharmacist420 Street_Pharmacist420 is offline
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Default Re: SSRIs vs benzos

So my appointment got delayed, but finally I've gone. He's got me on Lexapro and Clonazepam (short term). Yes, I listened to Totse and have decided to give the SSRI a try. :p The Clonazepam has been a godsend; I'm hoping to get a stash for "emergency" use (i.e. have to give a speech or something :P).

Anyone have any experiences with Lexapro?


Thanks man. I appreciate the thought. As said above, I've got SSRIs for the long term now... still nervous, but what the heck.

I was on Lexapro for a short time before benzos, and to be honest SSRI's made me feel like total shit(all of them). Backseat driver feeling, horrible headaches, lethargy, bad depression, I could go on and on. Yet one of my best freinds has been taking lexapro for a long time and it works wonders for him. It's all dependent on the person, which is why I still recommend people try SSRI's before going to benzos.

And 8 years ago, my doc perscribed me 1mg klonopin a day for 'short term' treatment. 8 years later, I take 10mg of klonopin a day, along with a tonload of other benzos; never believe anything a doctor tells you Roll Eyes (Sarcastic)

Best of luck man, anxiety is a fucking bitch
 #23 
Old 2008-09-09, 05:13
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washington usa
Default Re: SSRIs vs benzos

When your really fucking depressed or extremely anxious SSRI's help. In my experince they let you get detached and indiffrent to your situation and surroundings. In my experince SSRI's are not something to take longer than a few months at a time. Bottom line is that you will have to take them AT LEAST once before a doctor will perscribe ANYTHING other than SSRI's. Be warned read up on any mood stabilizers or anti-psycotics they may try on you because those are often worse than SSRI's by a landslide.
 #24 
Old 2008-09-09, 14:57
Regular
 
Your medicine cabinet
Default Re: SSRIs vs benzos

Be warned read up on any mood stabilizers or anti-psycotics they may try on you because those are often worse than SSRI's by a landslide.

Seriously. If you find a doctor ready to prescribe you Seroquel or Risperdal for general anxiety it's time to get the fuck out of the office.

When I was about 16 or 17 I had my old crooked doc script me Thorazine 50 mg tablets for severe anxiety attacks. It was basically like nodding out on opiates only in dysphoria instead of euphoria.
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