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Cunning Linguists Languages and their use. What languages do you speak and why? What do words really mean? Can you say things in one language that you can't say in another? Should there be a national language? How many languages should a person know and what are they?

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 #1 
Old 2008-08-10, 17:27
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Groovy.
Default Learning a richer language

Is it technically possible, knowing only a language A, and thinking in this language, to learn a language B, where the language B is a lot more expressive than the language A?
 #2 
Old 2008-08-10, 18:59
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Default Re: Learning a richer language

Are you talking about similar languages, like Spanish and Portuguese?

I think it's possible. I had learned a lot of Spanish in school, and my main exposure to Portuguese was movies, and later talking with a penpal on MSN. Despite not having formal lessons, I still managed to get to the point where I could hold decent coversations whenever I met someone who spoke Portuguese.

What languages are you talking about in particular?
 #3 
Old 2008-08-10, 19:18
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Groovy.
Default Re: Learning a richer language

Quote:
Originally Posted by DerDrache
Are you talking about similar languages, like Spanish and Portuguese?

I think it's possible. I had learned a lot of Spanish in school, and my main exposure to Portuguese was movies, and later talking with a penpal on MSN. Despite not having formal lessons, I still managed to get to the point where I could hold decent coversations whenever I met someone who spoke Portuguese.

What languages are you talking about in particular?


Oh actually you will probably know.

For example, when you were learning Russian.. did you really get the difference between similar words with different suffixes (e.g. таракан, тараканчик, тараканище)?
 #4 
Old 2008-08-10, 19:26
Regular
 
Default Re: Learning a richer language

Oh actually you will probably know.

For example, when you were learning Russian.. did you really get the difference between similar words with different suffixes (e.g. таракан, тараканчик, тараканище)?

Cockroach, small cockroach, and I don't think I've seen the last suffix before, but I'd guess "tiny cockroach"?

Oh, I see what you're asking. Russian is in some ways more expressive than English, so can an English speaker fully learn and understand it? Yeah, I think so. At some point you have to change your way of thinking though, because you can't always translate things. Like "зря"...I understand how it's used, but I can't really think of any way to translate it into English.
 #5 
Old 2008-08-10, 21:52
Regular
 
Groovy.
Default Re: Learning a richer language

Cockroach, small cockroach, and I don't think I've seen the last suffix before, but I'd guess "tiny cockroach"?

Oh, I see what you're asking. Russian is in some ways more expressive than English, so can an English speaker fully learn and understand it? Yeah, I think so. At some point you have to change your way of thinking though, because you can't always translate things. Like "зря"...I understand how it's used, but I can't really think of any way to translate it into English.

Well yeah, you see those suffixes also mean "a cockroach", "a cockroach in an affectionate/positive way", "a cockroach in a negative way".. hard to explain, really. (The last suffix also means "big")

Now, for example, English is not my first language, - and the curse words in English don't really do anything to me, they're just words. Although I can see that changing with time as I spend the time among English-speakers..

Actually, yeah - in English you guys have a lot more tenses than in the Russian language (like present perfect, past perfect, future perfect), and I "got" them after using them for a while.. so I guess you are right.
 #6 
Old 2008-08-10, 22:45
Moderator
 
Default Re: Learning a richer language

words are a dominant object of our logic perception. if some are missing, the perception will be incomplete. the brain will use substitutes and workarounds, but already made emotive connections with similar words might suppress new connections.

I´ll try to explain in a tautologic way. say you know that A is B. later you learn that B is C. now you also know that A is C. but your brain has created a logic path from A to B to C. it will take your brain a long time now to create a direct path from A to C without thinking of B, but only if B is not used as much as the other 2.
it´s like the ant algorithm to find the shortest path. the more ants leave a trace with their pheromones, the sooner the shortest path of a group of alternatives will be chosen.

to answer your question, knowing a richer language is easy, thinking in it and feeling the wohle complexity is not, only if you give up your own language, your fundament, your identity ..
 #7 
Old 2008-08-11, 16:47
scorpio2121 scorpio2121 is offline
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Default Re: Learning a richer language

I'd say definately, depending on where i am, i think in French more than i do in English and express myself in it as well.
 #8 
Old 2008-08-11, 17:19
Moderator
 
Northern VA
Default Re: Learning a richer language

Cockroach, small cockroach, and I don't think I've seen the last suffix before, but I'd guess "tiny cockroach"?

Oh, I see what you're asking. Russian is in some ways more expressive than English, so can an English speaker fully learn and understand it? Yeah, I think so. At some point you have to change your way of thinking though, because you can't always translate things. Like "зря"...I understand how it's used, but I can't really think of any way to translate it into English.
Le Francais:
Il y a autre problem avec aprendre sans francophones. Regarde, je peux penser en frances. Depuis deux ans, sans etudier materiel nouveux, je me repete quelques mots et phrases quand je conduis, quand je me bain, etc. Le majorite de temps je ne traduis, mais quand je traduis c'est du l'espagnol.
C'est ca le problem: ce francais que je sais, c'est un frances personnel. Cest pas le frances du francophones. Je sais beaucoup de phrases et mots, et je peux lire beaucoup. Mais, quand je regarde films francaises et ecoute radio, je peux pas comprendre tout. Mon cerveau est pas bien entraine.

I basically learned french very sloppily(fuck high school) and am currently at a stalemate with a language I can read and write decently but have little practice speaking and listening. The phrases, questions, commands, etc. I can make are mainly english/spanish equivalents and while I can " think" many thoughts in french, it is not yet the french of well... french people. I could refine it, but I have more interest in 2 other languages at the moment to go through the trouble of downloading tv/movies and getting a penpal to talk to regularly and all that.
 
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