I was discussing this with a friend last night: Are the drugs on Earth really meant to be done?

In the very beginning, people must have done some kind of experimenting with different plants, ingesting them to see which affected them positively, and once they learned which plants were the "good" ones, they must have taught their people and their young what they look like and how to spot them, right?

But, how exactly did they decide that the feeling from Cannabis, for example, is a "good" feeling? It's just altered perception, really, but that's technically what all things in our lives are. But anyway, why is cannabis any different from say, maple trees? If I were to eat the leaves of a maple tree or any random plant, I'd say theres a chance I would get sick or have some feeling of altered perception.

So, why isn't this a "good" feeling to us? Who exactly decided that pain is a bad thing? I guess it is unpleasant, but technically that's just a general viewpoint of people, some actually enjoy pain. It's just altered perception, similar to food or drugs or whatever we enjoy putting into our bodies to make us feel "better".

What I'm really asking is, do you think drugs are here for a reason, put on this Earth for us to ingest and feel their effects? Or do you think it's just chance that we decided certain things are good and others are bad, and improved the potency and changed them pretty drastically from their origins with our technology?

I'm thinking the second

well with cannabis as your example...cannabinoids such as THC and CBD were a favorable trait because they stopped animals from eating the plant. this must mean that animals dont like a cannabis high. its all perception. i know plenty of people that dont like being high and plenty that do. its not like god "put" THC there. it was at first a mutation that turned out to be favorable.

Yeah, that's the problem right there though, to me. I feel like drugs are special, and this just kinda puts a huge downer on it for me. I feel like them coming from nature really is what makes them special, I'd like to think they're meant to be there.

As is the case with nicotine and caffeine, the role of THC in Cannabis, it seems, is to protect the plant from herbivores. THC also possesses high UV-B (280-315 nm) absorption properties and it seems likely that this protects the seed buds from potentially harmful radiation.

from wikipedia^

Okay, so THC is special because it protects the plant from harm. But, like you said, it was a mutation.

I just feel like drugs should have a connection with the world and with nature. I know they make those of us who indulge feel "good", but I've began thinking more about the grand scheme of life and how I believe that certain drugs are a pathway to understanding.

It's just through faulty chance that such chemicals react the way they do on the human body, favourably or infavourably.

http://users.lycaeum.org/~sputnik/McKenna/Evolution/

To summarize: McKenna theorizes that as the North African jungles receded toward the end of the most recent ice age, giving way to grasslands, a branch of our tree-dwelling primate ancestors left the branches and took up a life out in the open -- following around herds of ungulates, nibbling what they could along the way.

Among the new items in their diet were psilocybin-containing mushrooms growing in the dung of these ungulate herds. The changes caused by the introduction of this drug to the primate diet were many -- McKenna theorizes, for instance, that synesthesia (the blurring of boundaries between the senses) caused by psilocybin led to the development of spoken language: the ability to form pictures in another person's mind through the use of vocal sounds.

About 12,000 years ago, further climate changes removed the mushroom from the human diet, resulting in a new set of profound changes in our species as we reverted to pre-mushroomed and frankly brutal primate social structures that had been modified and/or repressed by frequent consumption of psilocybin.

It's possible that drugs are what caused people to evolve. Mushrooms open your mind to new ideas. The DNA double helix was thought up by Francis Crick, who was on acid.

So, why isn't this a "good" feeling to us? Who exactly decided that pain is a bad thing? I guess it is unpleasant, but technically that's just a general viewpoint of people, some actually enjoy pain. It's just altered perception, similar to food or drugs or whatever we enjoy putting into our bodies to make us feel "better".

Generally since most things that cause pain are damaging something, common fucking sense told us not to ingest it.

What I'm really asking is, do you think drugs are here for a reason, put on this Earth for us to ingest and feel their effects? Or do you think it's just chance that we decided certain things are good and others are bad, and improved the potency and changed them pretty drastically from their origins with our technology?

Our chemical makeup determines what is healthy or unhealthy for us to ingest, i guess you could blame darwin...

Deers love it. Deers and Caribous and animals like those can consume big fields of the shit in a matter of days.

Generally since most things that cause pain are damaging something, common fucking sense told us not to ingest it.

What about masochists though?

But anyway, my point is just that everything changes your perception. Breathing for example, as opposed to holding your breath. Eating, drinking, whatever. It all just changes our perception, but really you can go without them (except breathing until you pass out...) and be fine until you decide to do them again without causing any lasting damage. Like fasting.

Our chemical makeup determines what is healthy or unhealthy for us to ingest, i guess you could blame darwin...

I'm not really talking about healthy or not, I'm just talking about our brain's perception.

Chemistry seems to be the basis of existence. Since even when the world ends the chemistry behind everything will still be there.

nope. you think its just chance that we have cannabinoid and opioid receptors? favorable mutations lived and darwin explains the rest.

What about masochists though?

well masochists are generally regarded as freaks.

well masochists are generally regarded as freaks.

Haha, true. But is it something in their brains that makes them believe pain as pleasurable? Or are they just posers?

I honestly have no in depth knowledge of masochism, so yeah.

What about masochists though?

But anyway, my point is just that everything changes your perception. Breathing for example, as opposed to holding your breath. Eating, drinking, whatever. It all just changes our perception, but really you can go without them (except breathing until you pass out...) and be fine until you decide to do them again without causing any lasting damage. Like fasting.



I'm not really talking about healthy or not, I'm just talking about our brain's perception.



Masochists are generally fucking stupid.
But apparently find a thrill in causing damage to their health like a druggie finds a thrill in drugs or a normal person see's a benefit in eating an apple or some philosophical wanker see's in fasting.

But essentially it's down to the individual and whether their particular chemical makeup at the time is leaning towards a yay or a nay.

nope. you think its just chance that we have cannabinoid and opioid receptors? favorable mutations lived and darwin explains the rest.

That's not what I meant, I meant it's just by chance that there are plants/chemicals out there that just happen too give us pleasurable effects. Humans weren't meant to get high. It's not like said drugs were put on this earth by an all knowing being for us too have a little fun.

You think too much, thats the problem.

Stop thinking: you'll get your answer.

But, how exactly did they decide that the feeling from Cannabis, for example, is a "good" feeling? It's just altered perception, really, but that's technically what all things in our lives are. But anyway, why is cannabis any different from say, maple trees? If I were to eat the leaves of a maple tree or any random plant, I'd say theres a chance I would get sick or have some feeling of altered perception.

How can you compare getting high off marijuana to eating random leaves and getting sick? Thats apples and oranges my friend

How can you compare getting high off marijuana to eating random leaves and getting sick? Thats apples and oranges my friend

Why? Random plant and random plant. One causes you to feel different, other causes you to feel different. Same thing in my eyes.

So, why isn't this a "good" feeling to us?

The feeling of cannabis is good for frequent dabblers in its effects because we think it is good. We do not think it is good because it is good.

What about masochists?


Masochists enjoy pain because they think it is good. They do not think pain is good because it is good. There is nothing 'in their brains' that causes them to derive pleasure from pain, it's the coveting and eventual receiving of pain that gives rise to pleasure. It's not as if a masochist would be inundated with pleasure upon placing his hand on a hot stove element. They feel pain, but like it. They are not incapable of feeling pain, for without pain, they wouldn't be masochists!

Things like fire and sharp things "hurt" because all the primitive apeman creatures that didn't get hurt would have burnt or bled to death and wouldn't have gotten to reproduce.

I think pot feels "good" for the same reasons being calm and relaxed feels better then being sad and depressed, or angry and pissed. I also think it has to do with expanding the way we think, if you follow Leary's 8-Circuit Model (http:/http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/8-Circuit_Model_of_Consciousness/). THC probably does something with releasing dopamine and maybe serotonin or something as well, I dunno, I haven't looked into it.

But it also has to do with what you desire. People can be panicked into having a bad experience (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Set_and_setting).

There's plenty of evidence to suggest that a lot of different animals have found their own ways to alter their perception/get fucked up. The aforementioned deer often bury fruit, then dig it up and eat it a week later to basically get drunk. I think such things would indicate that there is certainly a quantifiable difference between things that fuck you up and things that don't. Everyone needs an "opiate" or something to take away the pain of cold, sobering reality, and there are plenty of substances on Earth that function solely as an intoxicant chemically. There's been some arguments made that a lot of the intoxication that comes from THC is subjective and determined by an individuals brain, but I think I at least mildly disagree with that theory.

If its there then why not