There are a lot of weird people on totse. I was wondering if anyone found his logic rational. Most criminals want power and money, but the Joker commits crimes for no real reason.

So totse, among you are there any sympathizers for the Joker?

How do you contemplate the logic of the mentally 'insane'?

He can't be that insane if he can earn all that money. He does mention something in the movie that made a bit of sense. Why would the other career criminals deal with someone who is insane? He can't be very insane.

That's the entire basis of psychology, no?

He plainly states his motives in the movie. He says that he doesn't want money, power, or anything like that, he just wants to give gotham the type of criminal it deserves

I don't see Ledger's Joker as being "insane" in the conventional sense. He doesn't seem to have any clear-cut mental disorder. He's an absurdist sociopath -- he wants to hurt people and create chaos in a way that amuses him and/or reflects his own personal chaos.

Also keep in mind that this performance was influenced by Grant Morrison's depiction of the Joker in Arkham Asylum, where he possessed a kind of "super-sanity" in which he experienced all the conflicting sensory perceptions produced by the chaos of modern life simultaneously and was thus unable to filter these perceptions into a coherent identity like a normal person.

Quote from the aforementioned comic: "Unlike you and I, the Joker seems to have no control over the sensory information he's receiving from the outside world. He can only cope with the chaotic barrage of input by going with the flow. That's why some days he's a mischievous clown, others a psychopathic killer. He has no real personality. He creates himself each day. He sees himself as the Lord of Misrule, and the world as a theatre of the absurd."

You can see the influence of this in The Dark Knight in the way that the Joker keeps telling different stories about the origin of his scars -- he really doesn't know, since this way of processing information would make it impossible to have a continuous memory. He isn't completely lying when he describes himself to Dent as a "dog chasing cars". He swings back and forth between methodical bank robber, sadistic murderer, mischievous clown, etc.

Um, he is insane.

No.

Precisely, however let's not quibble over the definition of "insane".

No you do not understand the Joker, shut it.

I think that's more a nod to The Killing Joke, in which the Joker says "If I'm going to have a past I prefer it be multiple choice".

Well, he would definitely be classified as having a mental disorder since he deviates to far from the social norm. (In psychology, a mental disorder is defined relative to the population.)

The question as to whether he's a psychopath or a sociopath...well, it's hard to say. Insanity (characteristic of a psychopath) implies that you are truly out of your mind, can't rationalize, and in a legal sense, can't be deemed responsible for your actions. The Joker character most definitely strikes me as a sociopath, as he appears capable of rationalizing his actions. The character embraced chaos and destruction, but he definitely seemed to be of sound mind.

Dismissed.

Dismissed.

Yeah I just saw the movie today and I can definitely say I felt that I related to the Joker. I found myself rooting for him to win. I have mental problems myself so perhaps that is the reason.

I find I frequently sympathize with people who seem to have the "It's not me who is wrong, it is the world" psyche, as the joker appeared to possess.

1) Shut the fuck up.

2) I was admittedly disappointed at the outcome of the boat thing, though mainly because I felt it was unconvincing and not in tune with the rest of the movie.

1) Suck my dick.
2) Swallow and repeat.

Bingo, somewhat what I had in mind of explaining, but I am too worn out from the sensory overload of watching it in the IMAX to further elaborate.

To everyone else, stop with the "zOMG I can totally relate with teh J0ksters, he's just liek mes." I don't feel like I need to explain why you are not like him.

Goodnight, Fairwell /thread.

Yeah, seriously. I wonder how long before we start seeing YouTube videos of idiots acting like the Joker, or "Project Mayhem"-like sites where kids pick fights with strangers.

Some people just don't understand how anyone can think any different from "their perfect psyche".

Don't feel bad about it "DrDrache" you are more lucky then you imagine.

You cannot relate to the Joker.

If you had anything in common with him, you would not be posting on &T.

This is really all there is to it.

He seems admirable, from a sociopath's standpoint.

Have you ever been in BI?

I was rather disappointed that we didn't get more of a back-story on the joker. Who is he, where did he come from, and where did he REALLY get his scars? That's probably part of the mystique, but I would have liked to "get to know" him more. That being said, there are definitely people who just like to see the world burn. Just like some kids pluck wings off of flys, some people murder and rape just because they CAN. They want to see what happens. It's "interesting." And the Joker is more than "just insane." There is definitely logic there. Look up the Unabomber. He wanted to see the world burn too (but not just for pleasure). Read about some real criminals. Serial killers and the like. True, some of them are just wackos who thought Satan was possessing them, but some had rationalized what they were doing logically.

The fake stories were provided just to show how insignificant his backstory was in the big scheme of things. His father traumatized him, he lost someone he loved...if the film was definitive about one of these stories, what difference would it possibly make?

It would give us a clearer understanding of his character and what formed him.

Backstory provides a lot of dimension to a character and would of been nice to see with the joker.

Totally missing the point.