totse.com | Improv

the_riddler · #1 2008-07-11, 21:54

anyone got any tips for improv solos? like riffs or licks. and im not looking for the whole "spend all day transcribing a great solo, then learn it in 12 keys" thing, just tips on how to be orgiginal and spontaneous

Nightside Eclipse · #2 2008-07-11, 22:12

Learn scales (Ionian, Dorian...etc)
www.ultimate-guitar.com ---> lessons "search: Scales"

sambob · #3 2008-07-17, 16:40

Not over practicing, or working things out too much ahead of time helps. Sometimes when you play the same songs four nights a week it can stifle your creativity. Some of the best stuff I've ever played was say, after getting back from a week long vacation during which I didn't play a single note!

sum42dood · #4 2008-07-17, 17:15

Play? The only way to get good at improvisation is to try it. Not everyday , not once a month just whenever it feels right.

danzig · #5 2008-07-18, 05:04

this is the best way to explain how to make a melodic solo over a chord progression. there are two ways. the classical/jazz way, which is more book knowledge intensive, and then the folk/rock way, which is more internalization/hearing intensive.

the jazz way is well covered with pedagogy, go look at some books to learn which scales, modes and keys work over x chord, etc.

but i'll explain the rock/folk way.

think about singing melodies. is it easy to come up with one out of the blue that sounds good? not really. now, find a progression player online, they're out there. set up a simple 145 progression. now sing along la la la with it, and try to make it melodic. with the chords playing, you can sing things, and work around the chords to find a melody that works, right? try it.

now, realize that your voice is no different then a guitar. it plays notes, and so does your guitar. you need to internalize music so well, and have your hand so well trained at the fretboard, that, you can sing with your guitar, over a chord progression, making a melody in the same way that your voice does over the chords. this is really just a matter of playing alot, and improving your ear.

learn alot of solos, but not note for note, don't do that. just learn the general gist of it, then tinker with it over the chords the song is playing. people like jimmy paige, buckethead, zappa, and other good guitarists, never play a solo the same twice, or really memorize it, because it's not a abstract string of notes to them - it's just singing with the guitar. there is no shortcut, and it won't come quickly.

the best way to learn to do it is to get a boss loop pedal, 180$ or so, and play, play play over chords. start with pentatonics over power chords, and just keep at it. i really can't stress enough how important playing obsessively is, and how helpful that pedal will be.

edit:also, IGNORE those who said not to play too much. BULLSHIT. great guitarists got to be great by playing 8 hours a day. if you can set aside 2 1/2 hours a day, you should see some progress. it is a DISCIPLINE. train like you would train as a soldier, martial artist, or body builder. it is NO different.

Yoh · #6 2008-07-18, 07:56

Word up danzig

Nightside Eclipse · #7 2008-07-20, 17:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by danzig View Post

edit:also, IGNORE those who said not to play too much. BULLSHIT. great guitarists got to be great by playing 8 hours a day. if you can set aside 2 1/2 hours a day, you should see some progress. it is a DISCIPLINE. train like you would train as a soldier, martial artist, or body builder. it is NO different.

While you are right, if someone did like 8-10 hours a day, the efficiency would work in a parabola. Eight or ten hours a day would be great for memorizing stuff though.

I_like_pie · #8 2008-07-21, 21:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by danzig View Post

edit:also, IGNORE those who said not to play too much. BULLSHIT. great guitarists got to be great by playing 8 hours a day. if you can set aside 2 1/2 hours a day, you should see some progress. it is a DISCIPLINE. train like you would train as a soldier, martial artist, or body builder. it is NO different.

Good to see you actually have some sense in you
while it's not necessary for some, it SURE helps.

sambob · #9 2008-07-22, 03:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by danzig View Post

this is the best way to explain how to make a melodic solo over a chord progression. there are two ways. the classical/jazz way, which is more book knowledge intensive, and then the folk/rock way, which is more internalization/hearing intensive.

the jazz way is well covered with pedagogy, go look at some books to learn which scales, modes and keys work over x chord, etc.

but i'll explain the rock/folk way.

think about singing melodies. is it easy to come up with one out of the blue that sounds good? not really. now, find a progression player online, they're out there. set up a simple 145 progression. now sing along la la la with it, and try to make it melodic. with the chords playing, you can sing things, and work around the chords to find a melody that works, right? try it.

now, realize that your voice is no different then a guitar. it plays notes, and so does your guitar. you need to internalize music so well, and have your hand so well trained at the fretboard, that, you can sing with your guitar, over a chord progression, making a melody in the same way that your voice does over the chords. this is really just a matter of playing alot, and improving your ear.

learn alot of solos, but not note for note, don't do that. just learn the general gist of it, then tinker with it over the chords the song is playing. people like jimmy paige, buckethead, zappa, and other good guitarists, never play a solo the same twice, or really memorize it, because it's not a abstract string of notes to them - it's just singing with the guitar. there is no shortcut, and it won't come quickly.

the best way to learn to do it is to get a boss loop pedal, 180$ or so, and play, play play over chords. start with pentatonics over power chords, and just keep at it. i really can't stress enough how important playing obsessively is, and how helpful that pedal will be.

edit:also, IGNORE those who said not to play too much. BULLSHIT. great guitarists got to be great by playing 8 hours a day. if you can set aside 2 1/2 hours a day, you should see some progress. it is a DISCIPLINE. train like you would train as a soldier, martial artist, or body builder. it is NO different.

Sorry but you're very very wrong on a lot of accounts. MTC has already covered some of this, but to comment on your last paragraph. Being an ARTIST is a lot different than being a solider, martial artists, or body builder. Those are SCIENTIFIC endeavors. They are about numbers, giving yourself the best chance, knowing the most about your body, etc etc.

IMPROVISATION especially, as an aspect of music, when it comes down to it relies on CREATIVITY. Creativity CAN be dulled by doing too much of the same thing. This is 100% for sure a FACT.

If nothing else, MANY of the great improvisers in music agree with me.

Do you really think you know more about it than people like Miles Davis, John Coltrane, Wayne Shorter, Herbie Hancock, etc etc., just some of the people who agree that to be fresh and new in what you are improvising, it helps to be fresh in PLAYING a tune. Practicing playing over the same song 1000 times will teach you the chord changes dead on, but it won't teach you to play a good solo. That is where creativity comes in. And an easy way to come up with something new in playing a solo, is to NOT play over those same chords every day for a week before the performance. NOT playing it for some time will allow you to come back to the song FRESH with no preconceived ideas about what you will play in your mind.