.........

Yeah it does matter. Though I'm pretty sure you can use tomatoe leaves as well.

Can you post the cocktail that you are using? As in amounts? Cheers

tomatoe leaves? what like take all the leaves of a tomatoe and absorb them sublingually? how is it done, and what is a good dose of leaves?

im not sure of the doses for a 90 lb kid, thats why im asking.

I'm not sure dude. Wait for JoePedo or someone that knows to post.

I mean can you post the adult dosages you're working on? Cheers

help my sister with phenylalanine cocktail doses. she weighs 90 lbs. i realize i can find the doses for an adult, but 90 lbs?

Well, let's look at the main goodies, rather than the supporting infrastructure, first, shall we?

With the assumption that tyrosine can supply two-thirds of the aromatic amino acid requirement, these data suggest that the aromatic amino acid requirement should be 30 mg.kg-1.day-1 and the World Health Organization recommendation of 14 mg.kg-1.day-1 is an underestimate.

http://ajpendo.physiology.org/cgi/content/abstract/259/6/E835

So, using the "quick conversion estimate" that a kilo is 2lbs, that would mean your sister would need...

1.35g/day

...of either l-phen or l-tyr just to reach baseline.

(I like the way these people think... 'n yes, most people are not at baseline)

630mg/day using the inadequate WHO figures, btw. 'n, yes, it's hoped that most people's diets provide almost-adequate intake if they're planning on jacking their dopamine with grams and grams... otherwise, they're a little over 1 1/3rd grams behind.

'n incidentally, on the study of fun...

Oxidation was low and constant (1.3 mumol.kg-1.h-1) at intakes at or below 10 mg.kg-1.day-1 and increased linearly above this level.

...your sister would need a total phenylalanine intake (diet + supplementation) of 450mg to even have increased production of tyrosine after this level. How much tyrosine is used in non-dopamine reactions is anyone's guess... though the thyroid is dependent on it, and some of any amino acid gets sucked into protien synthesis. As for "minimal essential tyrosine," one could presume that this is indicated by the minimum oxidation level noted in the quote above - I'll let you do the molar weight calculations for how much tyrosine in mg gets scarfed by maintenance...

...but going back to this 30mg/kg requirement...

If one assumes that her needs and her intake are matched in her diet, than each 10mg of intake is 0.22mg/kg, for scaling purpouses. If you want to jack her phenylalanine/tyrosine content by 3mg/kg, you would need to provide just under 150mg... etc.

Now... as for the rest... umm... how old is your sister? Is she prepubescent, in puberty, or post-puberty? What's her current growth rate? If she's in puberty, is she mensturating yet? These can affect a lot of nutritional aspects - like the minor iron/mensturation link, or the calcium/magnesium ratio and rapid bone growth, etc... 'n organizations like the WHO drop different mg/kg figures for men, for women, and for children because of this...

So, while I wait on illicit pix of her pubertal develop- err, I mean, text-based answers, I... guess I'll just answer the rest...

and neither of us have access to a green potatoe.... and does the potatoe matter that much? im interested in using this cocktail as well. can it be omitted? can it be replaced? where to find one?

"Where to find one" = "find a potato, leave it in the sun, munch bitter skin 'n have some fun." I swear to GOD a single potato is not only avaliable but affordable in most markets. ;)

...but as to necessity... well... it's purpouse is cholergenic. There are four major parts to this thing...

- the aromatic amino acids provide the substrate which gets converted to l-dopa.

- the caffiene prevents the conversion enzymes from being switched off by the end product.

- almost everything else in there* involves maxing out conversion reagents for the conversion enzymes so they never run dry 'n grind to a halt.

...and...

- the cholergenic aspect (in the case of your post, solanine) increases production of said enzymes.

Now... it'll all get converted eventually, assuming one has enough iron and THB (which niacin/folate cycle nicely... folate builds, niacin recycles), but rate... helps. Alot. 'specially since dopamine occasionally gets broken down over use. 1mg/hr probably wouldn't meet one's needs. 100g/hr would probably have one euphoric, chronically masturbating, and vomiting all at once. 'n spaces in the middle, well... hopefully get more positive effects without the overdose effects... though the eromania sort of sneaks up on you.

So, you'll want the high conversion rate which comes of acetylcholine-mediated increase in the manufacture of the aromatic hydroxylation enzymes. As for how to activate choline... yes, acetylcholinesterase inhibitors (e.g. the green potato) are very good at it... but there's also just taking choline, along with (I think, but look it up, 'cause I didn't) b1, or a number of direct acetylcholine agonists in your environment... lupine 'n the various brooms (scotch, canary, etc) should provide at least some cholergenic agonism at selective receptors...

So, really, the options are limitless. I just like the AChEs because for all the drooling, stomach cramps, and pinpoint pupils of overdose, it's the most decently broad-spectrum indirect agonist there is... but anything that works (and won't kill you) in a pinch. ;)

Come back with pix -err, I mean, "text-based medical information," 'n I can try to hunt down the figures for the other reagents. Iron 'n caffiene are the two most toxic, really, so they're the main concern...

(p.s. Dare you to get her to eat an entire pound of sunflower seeds the day before...)

um ok didnt get most of that, should i just tell 'er to forget it?

shes 16, end of pubesence. yes, probably menstrating.

Hey Joe, would you mind, for one last time, throwing out some dosage figures for these 'ingredients'?

Phenylalanine/tyrosine
Caffeine
Iron
B3
Folic acid
Magnesium
Cholergenic agent

For a 21yr old Male, reasonably fit, eats quite alright, not on any medication, no allergies/illness etc, 180cms, 75kgs

Appreciate it a lot. Also if there is a journal article(s) or something that you can link regarding this so that I can read up without hassling that would be great as well

Since the phenylalanine topic is up again (and I hoped it would be) I figured I could just get some refs on something. I learned a shitload about neurophamacology and enzymes and junk just by chasing the links from the last thread, but there was one thing that I couldn't find:

"Where to find one" = "find a potato, leave it in the sun, munch bitter skin 'n have some fun." I swear to GOD a single potato is not only avaliable but affordable in most markets.

...but as to necessity... well... it's purpouse is cholergenic. There are four major parts to this thing...

I tried looking for backup on the solanine as AChE inhibitor, but nothing came up. You wouldn't happen to have a link to back that up, would you?

or a number of direct acetylcholine agonists in your environment... lupine 'n the various brooms (scotch, canary, etc) should provide at least some cholergenic agonism at selective receptors...

Would using these provide any benefit not provided by AChE inhibitors?



I'd also like to mention that L-DOPA is readily available (nutritional supplement) and at roughly the same price as phenylalanine. Starting with this cuts most of the steps from the metabolic process.

shes 16, end of pubesence. yes, probably menstrating.

Then she's an "adult" of 90kg from the perspective of physiology. "Old enough to bleed" doesn't mean that much to the cops, but it's pretty much adulthood to pharmacology.

Hey Joe, would you mind, for one last time, throwing out some dosage figures for these 'ingredients'?

Phenylalanine/tyrosine
Caffeine
Iron
B3
Folic acid
Magnesium
Cholergenic agent

varies, see below.
2-500mg
~50mg
100mg - 1g
0.5-1mg
100mg - 250mg
varies.

Phenylalanine and tyrosine are the most variable, and depend on your existing plasma level. At the weight you gave, 75mg per 1mg/kg increase in plasma level, obviously. Common recreational dosages range from 250mg to in excess of 2 or 3g, though doing 10-20mg boosters to adequate blood levels has also been known. Apparently due to the response of phenethylamine - which is an analog of amphetamine - tyrosine usually requires higher dosages to reach a full euphoria, and is usually also gentler.

As for the cholergenic agent, well... it depends quite a lot on what you're using. No one's used huperazine successfully, but it's listed as being active in 2-400ug range... so, it would kill you in the 500mg range, which is commonly used for choline.

Basically, a good measure is to start taking small doses until the cholergenic is psychoactive or physiologically active in its own right. In the case of an AChE, this usually means drooling, pupil constriction, and the like, whereas in the case of choline, this would be a mild decrease in the threshold of muscle spasm & cramping. Try not to get to "major increase," 'cause the dude who did that said it sucked. ;)

Once you've slowly ramped up, either there or 10%-20% lower would be a good dose, depending on your tolerance of the side effects.

Also if there is a journal article(s) or something that you can link regarding this so that I can read up without hassling that would be great as well

http://www.totse.com/community/showthread.php?t=2084457

...has a few journal refs in it.

Just as a side note, I crunched some math on the l-phen/l-tyr content of theobroma cacao, which I use as one of two (and my only weight-measured, and my usual large-dose) phenethylamine amino acid sources, and discovered that my usual intake of said aminos was 15-30mg/kg... usually on the 15mg/kg side. I usually use a much lower level for sustained use.

I learned a shitload about neurophamacology and enzymes and junk just by chasing the links from the last thread, but there was one thing that I couldn't find:

I tried looking for backup on the solanine as AChE inhibitor, but nothing came up. You wouldn't happen to have a link to back that up, would you?

http://www.actahort.org/books/163/163_8.htm

It helps to type out "acetylcholinesterase."

Would using these provide any benefit not provided by AChE inhibitors?

Only in being regionally easier for some to harvest. The AChEI is still the broadest-spectrum agonist.

I'd also like to mention that L-DOPA is readily available (nutritional supplement) and at roughly the same price as phenylalanine. Starting with this cuts most of the steps from the metabolic process.

^^ this man speaks truth. It was only a DLPA thread because, well... that's what silverballs (I think) had, and asked about. ;)

^^ this man speaks truth. It was only a DLPA thread because, well... that's what silverballs (I think) had, and asked about. ;)

So what steps can one skip if you start with L-DOPA? Excuse my complete lack of knowledge.

So what steps can one skip if you start with L-DOPA? Excuse my complete lack of knowledge.

Basically, EVERYTHING. The magnesium's a neuroprotectant NMDA antagonist and dopaminergic receptor upregulator, so you may still wish to exercise its optionality... but you can basically skip... EVERYTHING... if you so desire. It IS the end product.

http://www.actahort.org/books/163/163_8.htm

It helps to type out "acetylcholinesterase."

Thanks.

(p.s. Dare you to get her to eat an entire pound of sunflower seeds the day before...)

BTW...What is the purpose of sunflower seeds/oil. I've been meaning to ask that since the first thread. You mentioned it a number of times as an addition to the cocktail. My guess is that it contains serotonin precursors, but I was unable to verify this by Google, other than a few unreliable links.

this man speaks truth. It was only a DLPA thread because, well... that's what silverballs (I think) had, and asked about. ;)

Speedfreak actually.

I wonder where he went to?
That was the last thread of his i remember.

BTW...What is the purpose of sunflower seeds/oil.

Well, that varies...

Sunflower oil, when extracted from sunflower seed with an alcohol, is damn near pure phosphatidylcholine - both a choline source and cannabinoid synthesis donor.

Sunflower seed itself, otoh, is 1.2% tryptophan by weight. Which is... freakin' huge.

In this case...

My guess is that it contains serotonin precursors, but I was unable to verify this by Google, other than a few unreliable links.

^^ that's the point in question. ;) Dopamine is just so much cooler with a fuckload of serotonin sitting around and/or in vessicles waiting to be processed in the presence of the resultant noradrenaline! :)

Speedfreak actually.

O lawd. That user name sure puts a whole new perspective on the thread, lol...

Sorry 'bout the mixup... I got the "something starting with s" right, I guess...

I wonder where he went to?
That was the last thread of his i remember.

Nah...

Last Activity: 2008-04-12 22:25

...his disappearance was about 3 1/2 months later. His actual last thread - the day before his last logon - involved mixing lorazepam and vicodin.

Hopefully, we don't have another KP, 'n he's just... like... mildly arrested, or something...

Hmm.... odd. Anyone know him IRL 'n wanna do a news search or something???

so if your gonna take L-Dopa then all you need is like 200 mg caffeine and the green potatoe?

I wouldn't bother with the green tomatoe thing at all, just take some huperzine, that's what I used in my cocktails although I can't say I ever had much success with them

If you're gonna take l-dopa, you don't even need that.

so what do you need, just the green potatoe, just the caffeine, or neither, you just take X mgs L-Dopa, and how much L-Dopa

Ok, so I read through most of the first l-phen thread, and read all of this one, and I am STILL confused. Sorry for asking these questions but I just haven't been able to figure this out for the life of me.

I am under the impression that if I take.....
Phenylalanine/tyrosine 2-500mg (which I still don't know exactly what it is)
Caffeine 50mg
Iron 100mg - 1g
B3 .5 - 1g
Folic acid 100 - 250 mg
Magnesium ?
Green Potato - 1

That It will give me an opioid like euphoria?
And if that is the case, do things need to be spread out over a few days or can I just mix all this shit together and be totally out of it?
And 1 more thing, what is this l-dopa you speak of?

That It will give me an opioid like euphoria?

maybe

you just take X mgs L-Dopa

Bingo.

and how much L-Dopa

Well, the supplement-reccomended dosage is 250mg, little old ladies with parkinsons are reported in the literature as liking about 2g, and mg/kg are calculable...

...so, anywhere from .25g to somewhere in excess of 2g.


Caffeine 50mg

Way too low.

Iron 100mg - 1g

Dangerously high.

B3 .5 - 1g

A little high...

Folic acid 100 - 250 mg

Dangerously above the safe dose by several orders of magnitude.

That It will give me an opioid like euphoria?

Possibly. Or a number of other euphoriae, or some other results.

Some of the negative reports used the phrase "all the bad side-effects of amphetamines." It didn't work as pleasantly for them as it did for others, obviously.

And if that is the case, do things need to be spread out over a few days or can I just mix all this shit together and be totally out of it?

Pop at the same time.

And 1 more thing, what is this l-dopa you speak of?

The immediate precursor to dopamine, which all this other stuff is there to turn phenylalanine/tyrosine into. Generally seen as preferable by those who have access to it.

O lawd. That user name sure puts a whole new perspective on the thread, lol...

Sorry 'bout the mixup... I got the "something starting with s" right, I guess...



Nah...

Last Activity: 2008-04-12 22:25

...his disappearance was about 3 1/2 months later. His actual last thread - the day before his last logon - involved mixing lorazepam and vicodin.

Hopefully, we don't have another KP, 'n he's just... like... mildly arrested, or something...

Hmm.... odd. Anyone know him IRL 'n wanna do a news search or something???


oh no im still here, just about as alive as can be and not in any legal troubles. just havnt been visiting totse as much anymore but lately it has been calling to me again