I was wondering, aren't the dead already judged, and by living and dead, could it mean people who have done good/ wrong?

According to Christianity (Book of Revelation, I think) the dead are not judged until the second coming of Christ, when they will be raised from the grave and will stand judgement. 'Til then they just sit in limbo.

According to me, God doesn't judge, after all, there is no sin, so why would it need to?

Ummm, original sin BITCH, * your the kid who read the ending, and forgot the rest of the book.

Also, Limbo was pretty much abolished when Jesus died for peoples sins.

It is called the harrowing of hell, when jesus went to the hades * not necessarily full blown hell* and basically forgave people for their sins.

Where the hell does it say god won't judge? He judges people's sins, the overall goodness of a person.

Ummm, original sin BITCH, * your the kid who read the ending, and forgot the rest of the book.

Which is why the tradition of Baptism arose, to cleanse children and adults of original sin.

Also, Limbo was pretty much abolished when Jesus died for peoples sins.

Limbo, purgatory whatever you want to call the afterlife's waiting room. According to the vatican it still exists.

It is called the harrowing of hell, when jesus went to the hades * not necessarily full blown hell* and basically forgave people for their sins.

Jesus did not forgive anyone in "hades." He merely "opened the gates of Heaven" for the just who had gone before him.

Where the hell does it say god won't judge? He judges people's sins, the overall goodness of a person.

Don't bother looking in the Bible, I don't get my philosophy from that source.

Limbo, purgatory whatever you want to call the afterlife's waiting room. According to the vatican it still exists.


http://www.reuters.com/article/wtMostRead/idUSL2028721620070420

This is where i always get lost in Christianity, if jesus comes to purgatory or what not for all the people who lived before him and says, "believe in me and you will be saved", any logical person would say, "hell yeah, you're right in front of me!". How is it that us post jesus people got the bum-fuck deal of having to believe in some random book, while the pre jesus people get actual evidence.

http://www.reuters.com/article/wtMostRead/idUSL2028721620070420

Ok, so it's not called limbo, thanks for pointing that out ;).

This is where i always get lost in Christianity, if jesus comes to purgatory or what not for all the people who lived before him and says, "believe in me and you will be saved", any logical person would say, "hell yeah, you're right in front of me!". How is it that us post jesus people got the bum-fuck deal of having to believe in some random book, while the pre jesus people get actual evidence.

You would have to have lived a "just-life" for Jesus to have saved you from hades, but yeah post Jesus people do get the shaft.

I'd like to know how the church does a 180 on something that has been taught for centuries, like "Oh yea, we never really believed this, we just taught it"

Limbo isn't just for infants, its one of the four parts of hell.

Well, there are two limbos.

I guess my point, was does everyone sit in limbo? the good and the bad? Because if it just says the living and the dead, and well Jesus has to go to hades to judge the dead, that means that all dead go to hades right?


PS.

Limbo, which comes from the Latin word meaning "border" or "edge", was considered by medieval theologians to be a state or place reserved for the unbaptized dead, including good people who lived before the coming of Christ.

"People find it increasingly difficult to accept that God is just and merciful if he excludes infants, who have no personal sins, from eternal happiness, whether they are Christian or non-Christian," the document said.

It said the study was made all the more pressing because "the number of unbaptized infants has grown considerably, and therefore the reflection on the possibility of salvation for these infants has become urgent".

So, this means that people don't believe in original sin either? I mean really... The new testament says that people are baptized to forgive original sin. Although I view baptism as a remembrance, like communion. and since Infants don't really have choice yet, or consciousness for that matter. Can they really be saved by a ritual?

Although I view baptism as a remembrance, like communion. and since Infants don't really have choice yet, or consciousness for that matter. Can they really be saved by a ritual?

Yes.

Magic can do anything you can imagine.

I guess my point, was does everyone sit in limbo? the good and the bad? Because if it just says the living and the dead, and well Jesus has to go to hades to judge the dead, that means that all dead go to hades right?

Yes, everyone ends up in purgatory, no matter how "good" or "bad" you were. Which then begs the question, is anyone actually in Heaven/Hell? The Church asserts that, at least, all the Saints are in Heaven.

I mean really... The new testament says that people are baptized to forgive original sin. Although I view baptism as a remembrance, like communion. and since Infants don't really have choice yet, or consciousness for that matter. Can they really be saved by a ritual?

This was one of the reasons Martin Luther wanted to break away from the Vatican.

The Church asserts that, at least, all the Saints are in Heaven.

The concept of sainthood is rooted in the Christian belief that aligning one’s motives and actions with the will of God makes one more perfect and holy, and that it is possible in life to approach perfection.

Seems tough doesn't it? If saints are the only ones getting in to the big after party called heaven, how does one RSVP?

Right here: http://scottthong.wordpress.com/2007/07/18/25-to-become-one-of-the-144000-saints/

I think it is 25 bucks to become a saint.

Or you can go underneath the vatican and play with bones of saints, some of the saint magic may rub off.

Even the Pope gets lost in the whole judgement thing. Christians just can't make up their mind - does God judge us when we die, or does Jesus judge us at the ressurection of the living and the dead.?

I hope Christians can have a war over it.

Yes, everyone ends up in purgatory, no matter how "good" or "bad" you were. Which then begs the question, is anyone actually in Heaven/Hell? The Church asserts that, at least, all the Saints are in Heaven.



This was one of the reasons Martin Luther wanted to break away from the Vatican.

Yet Lutherans have baptism?

Yet Lutherans have baptism?

You're right, sorry I got my facts fudged up. For some reason I thought that because Lutheran's stressed an individual relationship with God, they didn't baptize infants. After all how can a newborn have a relationship with God?

Here's some food for thought on Baptism. Nowhere in the Bible does it give an example of an infant being Baptized. Infact to the early Catholic Church, Baptism of an infant was unheard of. It was not until the begining of the Middle Ages, when the idea of original sin became popular, that newborns started being Baptized.

And -limbo was used as propaganda, and the crusades were a good thing.....

According to Christianity (Book of Revelation, I think) the dead are not judged until the second coming of Christ, when they will be raised from the grave and will stand judgement. 'Til then they just sit in limbo.

According to me, God doesn't judge, after all, there is no sin, so why would it need to?

Well said. I totally agree, as do zillions of mystics and shamans and Sufis down through the years, as well as moderns such as Chopra, Wasch, Dyer and a host of others.