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Laboratory Tips Safety proceedures, test reagents, drilling rubber stoppers, bending glass tubes, etc. Contributed to by chemists.

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 #1 
Old 2008-06-23, 20:29
fishtea fishtea is offline
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Default Vinyl vs. allyl groups

What is the difference between a vinyl (ethenyl) and an allyl group? I read the wikipedia explanation of an allyl group but I couldn't make much sense of it.

Is an allyl group just a terminal vinyl group meaning a vinyl group with nothing attached to the second carbon apart from a H?

When people say allylbenzene do they refer to a particular compound or a group of compounds that have a benzene ring and an allyl group? For example is propenylbenzene an allylbenzene? Theres no wikipedia entry for propenylbenzene. Are there any other names for it? I tried phenylpropene but nothing either.
 #2 
Old 2008-06-24, 00:48
FullMetalJacket FullMetalJacket is offline
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Default Re: Vinyl vs. allyl groups

An allyl group is a vinyl group bearing an extra methylene on the non-terminal end of the chain.
 #3 
Old 2008-06-24, 08:55
fcknut fcknut is offline
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Default Re: Vinyl vs. allyl groups

I drew a picture!

http://www.mediafire.com/imageview.php?quickkey=2x06dttmrm3&thumb=4
 #4 
Old 2008-06-24, 12:45
fishtea fishtea is offline
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Default Re: Vinyl vs. allyl groups

Ah I get it now. Thanks. Fucking hell they're some well drawn diagrams fknut.
 #5 
Old 2008-06-25, 09:33
fcknut fcknut is offline
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Default Re: Vinyl vs. allyl groups

Quote:
Originally Posted by fishtea
Ah I get it now. Thanks. Fucking hell they're some well drawn diagrams fknut.


Oh good!

And yes, I'm very talented... ;)
 #6 
Old 2008-06-25, 15:17
fishtea fishtea is offline
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Default Re: Vinyl vs. allyl groups

Took me about 20 minutes to draw this one for my website
http://toxicopoeia.com/plantsofthegods/chemistry/chemicals/harmine/harmine_mol.gif
Harmine. Thank god it wasn't heroin I had to draw.

I never understood what these dotted lines meant
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/7b/Heroin-2D-skeletal.png/220px-Heroin-2D-skeletal.png
those and squiggly lines what do they mean?
 #7 
Old 2008-06-25, 21:09
DiamondX DiamondX is offline
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Default Re: Vinyl vs. allyl groups

The dotted and thick lines mean it is a 3D structure and the molecules are coming towards you or away from you. I don't remember which is which though.
 #8 
Old 2008-06-25, 21:37
fcknut fcknut is offline
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Default Re: Vinyl vs. allyl groups

Took me about 20 minutes to draw this one for my website

Chemdraw ftw!



I never understood what these dotted lines meant

those and squiggly lines what do they mean?


These are just ways to represent the stereochemistry of a molecule - the dashed bonds are pointing back behind the plane of the page, and the bold ones are pointing towards you.
 #9 
Old 2008-06-27, 23:59
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Utah: Mountains, Mormons, Meth
Default Re: Vinyl vs. allyl groups

When people say allylbenzene do they refer to a particular compound or a group of compounds that have a benzene ring and an allyl group? For example is propenylbenzene an allylbenzene? Theres no wikipedia entry for propenylbenzene. Are there any other names for it? I tried phenylpropene but nothing either.

Particular compound--allylbenzene is C6H5-CH2CHCH2. If you change the C6H5 for an OH, you'll get the allyl alcohol that wiki talks about. Allyl is just a propenyl with the dbl bond on the 2nd carbon; phenylpropene is also a compound, but with the dbl bond on the 1st rather than the second carbon as in allylbenzene.

This is illustrated excellently by the (trans) propenyl isomer: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anethole
...and the allyl isomer: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estragole

Alternatively you could call 1-phenylpropene isoallylbenzene (provided you specify which isomer, of course Mad).
 
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