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Better Living Through Chemistry Discussions of any and all sorts of mind-warping chemicals, pills, booze, mind machines, trippy stuff, current street prices, importing pharmaceuticals, smart drugs, nutrients, herbs, and altered states. Please try to keep your conversations "theoretical" in nature, since this is an open conference.

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 #1 
Old 2008-05-21, 23:11
kenton kenton is offline
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Default Engineering Yourself Via Drugs

Basically, I'm a believer, at this point, in determinism:


The universe operates (through physics) in measurable and ultimately predictable ways. Given the analogy of billiard balls bouncing around a pool table, if you had enough information you would be able to perfectly predict the paths and interactions of the balls. But, you see, since the universe can be compared to an almost infinitely huge pool table with gazillions of balls of extremely small size bouncing off of each other, the same reasoning applies on a larger scale.

The universe is a gigantic clockwork and, although science is not currently (and may never be) able to accurately predict everything, fate is real in a sense because the universe is simply an ongoing chain reaction of matter and energy interacting with each other. Thus, there can be only one outcome to any given situation, although we don't know what that outcome is. Every instant is predetermined by the instant that came just before... hence, "determinism."

When this boils down to personal choice and personal ability it seems I find myself limited by my neurochemistry and more chemical than anything "beyond" any predictable chemical machine. Or is the reason I can't change (my habits, my energy, my mood, my mental/physical focus/stamina, spirituality, mental health) merely because I don't believe I can?

Anyways, it seems like my definition of "self-control" has changed to "control over chemicals in body".

I might just find this important right now, at this point in my life, but how can one learn to really do this? Do I just like, take a few neurchemistry and nutrition classes in college and bada bing, bada boom, I can change myself for the better? How much does exercise affect this?
 #2 
Old 2008-05-22, 00:41
Ave2 Ave2 is offline
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Default Re: Engineering Yourself Via Drugs

Basically, I'm a believer, at this point, in determinism:



When this boils down to personal choice and personal ability it seems I find myself limited by my neurochemistry and more chemical than anything "beyond" any predictable chemical machine. Or is the reason I can't change (my habits, my energy, my mood, my mental/physical focus/stamina, spirituality, mental health) merely because I don't believe I can?

Anyways, it seems like my definition of "self-control" has changed to "control over chemicals in body".

I might just find this important right now, at this point in my life, but how can one learn to really do this? Do I just like, take a few neurchemistry and nutrition classes in college and bada bing, bada boom, I can change myself for the better? How much does exercise affect this?

not via the drugs you reed here about.....

and basically the really complex knowledge surprisingly boils down to proper nutrition, vitamins, minerals metals, and elimination of toxic foreign substances....

But as far as i know there are no magical drugs to give you what you want....

]I have experimented with quite a few "nutritional supplements".

some are yay, some are ney.

none come to be a substitute for hard mental/physical work.... which itself regulates un-expleanably complex series of bio-chemical events and...boom there you are.
 #3 
Old 2008-05-22, 01:03
fat_thighs fat_thighs is offline
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Default Re: Engineering Yourself Via Drugs

One of the latest movements in university level psychology is that of "Positive Psychology". It's the study of the use of positivity in your everyday outlook on life. They say that classic psychology instills a feeling of fear, paranoia, and uneasiness with the world because it constantly focuses on the bad things in life. But if you reverse that and only focus on the good things in your life, you will almost always be happy because the bad things won't seem quite as bad.

Be careful if you're using drugs for the sole purpose of changing yourself. That can turn out for better or for worse, but in many cases, drugs can make a person's life far worse. I advocate using drugs only to help you see things differently, but not to directly change your personality. That's a negative side effect in my opinion.
 #4 
Old 2008-05-22, 01:30
Regular
 
Default Re: Engineering Yourself Via Drugs

I am finding out more and more that tweaking your neurochemistry really can have a huge impact on all aspects of life and how you experience it. Even if your physical circumstances do not change, having a better mood/perspective of it will make life better at any moment and will eventually lead to positive changes to your physical circumstances as well.

The hard part is obviously knowing exactly how to change your perspective via chemistry. I've found that meditation helps somewhat in the short term, but one will usually revert to a lesser state of contentment. Psychedelics can help by allowing you to see new possibilities in viewing your reality for the better, but those are also usually short-term.

You can try various diets and nutritional supplements to see which works for you in the long run but this process will take years. I suggest trying to break down what "parts" of your psyche you want to change. Whether it be feelings of detachment, losing interest in things, inability to focus on the present moment, anxiety, negative self-image, social anxiety, etc. You may have all of these things, but each condition can usually be linked to a certain neurotransmitter and they usually have to do with serotonin, dopamine, gaba, and acetylcholine.

Obviously it's a very hard task to know what to tweak and to what degree and even guys like JoePedo don't fully understand it, much less know how it works with other people. So really we aren't at a point technology-wise to engineer neurochemistry to make people feel their best constantly and there are no easy solutions. You should still keep exploring what works for you though.

Only solid recommendation I can give is to give yourself permission to transcend anxiety and just be natural to yourself. There is no use worrying about anything and it is best to live in the context of the present moment without worrying about the past or the future. The mind should just flow without all the mental constructs putting experience into ideas and disrupting immediate presence. Basically it is to experience rather than thinking about the experience.
 #5 
Old 2008-05-22, 01:32
kenton kenton is offline
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Default Re: Engineering Yourself Via Drugs

not via the drugs you reed here about.....

and basically the really complex knowledge surprisingly boils down to proper nutrition, vitamins, minerals metals, and elimination of toxic foreign substances....

But as far as i know there are no magical drugs to give you what you want....

I have experimented with quite a few "nutritional supplements".

some are yay, some are ney.

none come to be a substitute for hard mental/physical work.... which itself regulates un-expleanably complex series of bio-chemical events and...boom there you are.


Yeah, I was basically referring to what you're thinking AND "recreational" drugs, and trying to view them all as things you can change yourself with. I'm kind of wondering how life would differ ten years down the line with like, daily dose of the whole DL-phen thing, or something like that. This is kind of spurred from me going to a psych and I'm debating what would affect change more, psychotherapy or prescription anti-depressants and getting to the point where it goes beyond self-healing to self-improvement and massive life changes via other things affecting neurochemistry.

So you operate on the belief that your consciousness can completely change and you could "reinvent" yourself simply by changing your thoughts and through hard work in doing so?

One of the latest movements in university level psychology is that of "Positive Psychology". It's the study of the use of positivity in your everyday outlook on life. They say that classic psychology instills a feeling of fear, paranoia, and uneasiness with the world because it constantly focuses on the bad things in life. But if you reverse that and only focus on the good things in your life, you will almost always be happy because the bad things won't seem quite as bad.

Be careful if you're using drugs for the sole purpose of changing yourself. That can turn out for better or for worse, but in many cases, drugs can make a person's life far worse. I advocate using drugs only to help you see things differently, but not to directly change your personality. That's a negative side effect in my opinion.

Is this cause and effect though? What leads to the positive thoughts and what keeps the person from having negetive thoughts? ...I always thought this was more pseudoscience but if you have a link or something I'd appreciate it.

Even if your physical circumstances do not change, having a better mood/perspective of it will make life better at any moment and will eventually lead to positive changes to your physical circumstances as well...Only solid recommendation I can give is to give yourself permission to transcend anxiety and just be natural to yourself...Basically it is to experience rather than thinking about the experience.

I wish that for myself! Problem is with my circumstances at this point I'm in a position where I'm making so many life choices for my future I have to both reflect and project and constanly be self-conscious :(
Self-improvement for the power and perspective to change your physical circumstances, yeah. I like all the methods you listed.
 #6 
Old 2008-05-22, 04:15
fat_thighs fat_thighs is offline
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Default Re: Engineering Yourself Via Drugs

Is this cause and effect though? What leads to the positive thoughts and what keeps the person from having negetive thoughts? ...I always thought this was more pseudoscience but if you have a link or something I'd appreciate it.
Yes, the self-help and personal development movement dealt mainly in pseudo-science, but positive psychology blends that with actual researched facts. That's why I mentioned it, because it helps you control your feelings and body in a good way. It's not the hippie-like "if everyone was in peace and love, the world would have no problems" type of thing. It acknowledges that life can't be perfect, but there's a lot you can do to strive for perfection.

I learned about it through a Harvard online course, you can get that for free here:
http://my.harvard.edu/icb/icb.do?keyword=k29664
 #7 
Old 2008-05-22, 04:19
Regular
 
Default Re: Engineering Yourself Via Drugs

When this boils down to personal choice and personal ability it seems I find myself limited by my neurochemistry and more chemical than anything "beyond" any predictable chemical machine. Or is the reason I can't change (my habits, my energy, my mood, my mental/physical focus/stamina, spirituality, mental health) merely because I don't believe I can?

Anyways, it seems like my definition of "self-control" has changed to "control over chemicals in body".

there is nothing to change
 #8 
Old 2008-05-22, 05:10
Ljudska Ljudska is offline
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Default Re: Engineering Yourself Via Drugs

everything just is.
 #9 
Old 2008-05-22, 05:46
kenton kenton is offline
Regular
 
Default Re: Engineering Yourself Via Drugs

I learned about it through a Harvard online course, you can get that for free here:
http://my.harvard.edu/icb/icb.do?keyword=k29664

Thanks for the link! You found my summer project.
 #10 
Old 2008-05-22, 06:50
ignis invictus veritatis ignis invictus veritatis is offline
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Default Re: Engineering Yourself Via Drugs

oP, check this out:

http://www.hedweb.com/hedethic/hedonist.htm
 #11 
Old 2008-05-22, 11:49
DIOTRO DIOTRO is offline
Regular
 
Default Re: Engineering Yourself Via Drugs

Some of the monks spend their entire lives using meditation as a channel the the higher powers, hence the chakras and such.

The only thing that really matters as far as the universe goes is YOUR version or perception of it. To alter one's perception of it, you must believe and accept the fact that you are a part of it.

There is some examples of monks using low doses of MDMA and other psychoactives for raising the speed of escalation to the cosmos but it's really a matter of focus and concetration. Rome wasn't built in a day, and neither was the universe, nor was your mind. (That took at least 9 months. ;))

If the mind was a computer, drugs would be the third party hacks, and the ethnobotanicals would be the native running software. Human OS, think abstract.
 #12 
Old 2008-05-22, 12:48
Regular
 
New Zealand
Default Re: Engineering Yourself Via Drugs

do you mean Better Living Through Chemistry?
 #13 
Old 2008-05-22, 19:32
spl1ff spl1ff is offline
Regular
 
Default Re: Engineering Yourself Via Drugs

Basically, I'm a believer, at this point, in determinism:



When this boils down to personal choice and personal ability it seems I find myself limited by my neurochemistry and more chemical than anything "beyond" any predictable chemical machine. Or is the reason I can't change (my habits, my energy, my mood, my mental/physical focus/stamina, spirituality, mental health) merely because I don't believe I can?

Anyways, it seems like my definition of "self-control" has changed to "control over chemicals in body".

I might just find this important right now, at this point in my life, but how can one learn to really do this? Do I just like, take a few neurchemistry and nutrition classes in college and bada bing, bada boom, I can change myself for the better? How much does exercise affect this?

i think you should just go get laid.
 
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