As one Israeli psychologist claims, Moses vision of thunder and Yahweh's commands were nothing more than the effects of a hallucinogenic plant; an ayahuasca inebriation. Its a shame that in his doped up euphoria that he slaughtered 3000 Jews for jealousy of a Golden Calf, not unlike Charles Manson.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23468364/

1yf3h4x!

Good link, very interesting.

the main thing i find questionable about it is that moses would have regularly drank this beverage. He would have understood and realized its effects, and thus know that he wasn't really speaking to God when he drank it. And everyone else around him would think he was just hallucinating from the tea, and not listen to his prophetic words

"As one Israeli psychologist claims"

I sure hope he's right, because DMT and Ibogaine are the base of my entire belief structure! ;)

It's interesting how easily one comes to look favourably upon an idea when it is aligned with one's ideology, regardless of whether this idea could ever be tested in any meaningful way.

Well at least part of the bible makes sense now, it was people going apeshit on DMT.

Interesting theory.

I am reminded of the words of A. E. Houseman--"Malt does more than Milton can/ To justify God's ways to man."

To the OP.......Awesome thread title.

the main thing i find questionable about it is that moses would have regularly drank this beverage. He would have understood and realized its effects, and thus know that he wasn't really speaking to God when he drank it. And everyone else around him would think he was just hallucinating from the tea, and not listen to his prophetic words

People back then would not understand that it was the drink alone that made them see burning bushes. Fuck man, they didnt even understand basic medicine or science, let alone the chemistry involved in figuring out that the drink is natural and not magic.

Many religions revere drugs and hallucinogens as divine or holy. Meaning God gave them this brew to speak with him.

It's interesting how easily one comes to look favourably upon an idea when it is aligned with one's ideology, regardless of whether this idea could ever be tested in any meaningful way.

There is no way to test whether or not Moses actually did it, we can only assume he did based on the descriptions of the trips, and the mentioning of the acacia tree in the bible.

I, quite simply, find it more probable that Moses was fucked up on this shit, than I do an omnipowerful being exists. One has SOME evidence, at least.

Yeah this definitely sounds more probable than the supernatural explanation offered by Jude-Christians, but this is still wild speculation.

People back then would not understand that it was the drink alone that made them see burning bushes. Fuck man, they didnt even understand basic medicine or science, let alone the chemistry involved in figuring out that the drink is natural and not magic.

Many religions revere drugs and hallucinogens as divine or holy. Meaning God gave them this brew to speak with him.


Yeah, you're probably right. When I read this, Native American spiritual practices came to mind. I suppose I never really thought of the tribes of Isreal like that...

As for your claim regarding basic medicine; they (and the Ancient Egyptians) had some decent medicine and some hygenic practices.. with many of the more 'unusual' ingeredients perhaps previously thought of as redundant; actually having an effect. At least according to some guy with an article in New Scientist magazine, who has spent years restoring and testing the combined and individual properties of ingredients in Ancient Egyptian medicine. He's developing some sort of theory that Greeks and hippocrates weren't necessarily the ones with the best medical practices, or something.. i hardly remember.

Jewz lived near Egypt, maybe they picked up a thing or two. All I know is some of the old Judaic laws and practices were conductive to good hygeine - of course, nothing compared to our modern understanding.

Its a known fact that for centuries people did take psychotropic substances in many, many various religious ceremonies...

how do you guys know that in order for you to hear adonai (the much more acceptable spelling of the y word) you must consume something along the lines of DMT?

it is believed in kabbalah that if you block out all other noises you can here the voice of god whispering from the top of mt. sinai.

Jewz lived near Egypt, maybe they picked up a thing or two. All I know is some of the old Judaic laws and practices were conductive to good hygeine - of course, nothing compared to our modern understanding.


Yes, they were useful. I find it funny that many religions to this day still practice the ancient dietary habits set forth in their cannons.

I think it also says something about the honesty of the cannons (in the literalist sense) and the early usage of the church (of nearly any religion) to be a tool for social control.

I wonder for how long you need to block out all noise. If you enter sensory deprivation for a prolonged period you will hallucinate. DMT (which occurs naturally in the brain) will build up. Same with long periods of not eating or sleeping.

So yes, if you starve, sensory deprive, or sleep deprive yourself you will hear, see and smell things that are not normal....this is due PURELY to the fact that your brain is functioning improperly.

I am sorry to point this out, as I am sure many of you thought something magical was occuring.

There is no way to test whether or not Moses actually did it, we can only assume he did based on the descriptions of the trips, and the mentioning of the acacia tree in the bible.

Hardly. A few pieces of circumstantial evidence are not enough to appease scientific skepticism. The assumption is anything but mandatory.

Lewis Carroll could have gained access to hallucinogenics if he wanted to, and a reading of Alice in Wonderland might suggest he did. But there's no direct proof that he did and unless there are new findings of evidence, no historian worth their salt will ever assert it as anything other than an unverified possibility.

I wonder for how long you need to block out all noise. If you enter sensory deprivation for a prolonged period you will hallucinate. DMT (which occurs naturally in the brain) will build up. Same with long periods of not eating or sleeping.

So yes, if you starve, sensory deprive, or sleep deprive yourself you will hear, see and smell things that are not normal....this is due PURELY to the fact that your brain is functioning improperly.

I am sorry to point this out, as I am sure many of you thought something magical was occuring.

Uh...DMT is magical. Ask anyone who's ever dosed on it.

Uh...DMT is magical. Ask anyone who's ever dosed on it.

I laughed :D

Uh...DMT is magical. Ask anyone who's ever dosed on it.

I have asked someone. Me. I have dosed shrooms, gel tab, blotter and liquid.

It is interesting, and fun for a bit, but it is NOT magical.

Its a known fact that for centuries people did take psychotropic substances in many, many various religious ceremonies...

Read:

"Yeah, you're probably right. When I read this, Native American spiritual practices came to mind. I suppose I never really thought of the tribes of Isreal like that..." - myself

Why assume the expereince to not be real?

Too bad psychologists often talk a load of shit in the current moment, let alone when evaluating 2500ish year old history which no one knows any real "facts" about......

Who gives a shit to be honest...? Give this guy a coconut if it'll make him feel special. Pseudo-science extrodinaire, really.

One thing's for real.... some right knobs are rubbing their hands with glee at this amazing "revelation". Bow down to 21st century Moses, dudes...

I have asked someone. Me. I have dosed shrooms, gel tab, blotter and liquid.

It is interesting, and fun for a bit, but it is NOT magical.

No, but it's absalutely incredibly profoundly amazing in every way you can possibly think (shrooms that is.)

Then again when I did shrooms I was in a extremely open plainsfield after travelling up a mountainside and looking down.

Even if I was sober the sight would've been pretty damn amazing, but shrooms made it mind blowing, thought I was in scotland for a while.


DMT though is magical, shrooms and LCD are like childs' toys compared to what DMT does. And who's to judge that what you see isn't real? The brain is so complex and advanced that humanity hasn't even scratched the surface to understanding it. It could easily percieve things no instrument created yet could come close to percieving.

Makes you wonder how many other hairbrained religions were thought up or contributed, by people fucked on mind altering subtances...