Continued from here (https://www.totse.com/community/showthread.php?t=2084457).

Still waiting for the Huperzine. Any suggestions on how to dose with it? Dose like the potato or some other way?

dlphenylalanine...part deux

in ya face like uhhhh

sign me up for this

Kill this silly topic. Phenylalanine is for Fresca-drinking homos!!! You don't wanna be a Fresca-drinker, do you????

--KP

If being a Fresca drinker involves the production and release of higher amounts of euphoria producing dopamine, then yes, I shall chug.

Even though I'd rather use pure supplements for my source of the chemical. Although Fresca is kind of refreshing.

I wouldnt wanna fuck with my dopamine receptors if i was yall

Phenylalanine is poison.

http://www.sweetpoison.com/

Phenylalanine is poison.

http://www.sweetpoison.com/

Funny, the bitch saying it's evil also happens to be selling a detox program for it. No way could desire for money EVER bias someone. No, never. Especially a "doctor of alternative medicine"



*wipes tear from eye*


Thank you, I haven't laughed that hard in a long time.

Phenylalanine is poison.

http://www.sweetpoison.com/

Actually, phenylalanine is an amino acid which your body requires but does not produce on its own.

Damn, you are ridiculous.

Even though this cocktail pertains to the Levo isomer of Phenylalanine and the latter.

You can get cancer from staring at the sun too long...

God damn you melanoma! Cancerous legions strike again!

So, ephedrine is what all these speed freaks are cooking up their shit from, which would explain why I had a hell of a time buying some today. But anyway, I kind of like the substance by itself. I know that it works mostly as an "impostor" (you know, it looks like noradrenalin but it's not, and the SNS neurons can't tell the difference). I think it increases the presence of dopamine in the brain as well. Today I am going to find out what ephedrine does in relation to increasing your dopamine levels!

Time to go eat that fuckin potato.

Ephedrine sucks and has NO euphoria what so ever.

I'm aware of the effects (or lack thereof) associated with ephedrine. I've used it to stay awake plenty of times, but I have noticed that unlike other phenethylamines I have known and loved (lol shulgin ref), there is no euphoria. Maybe that's because of low dopamine-related activity? So that's why I'm trying it with this phenylalanine combination. Maybe some 5-HTP a little beforehand also, because I know that it has a very limited action on serotonin release.

Is this good for someone who has high anxiety? Someone on an SSRI?

My girl friend is a crazy bitch, maybe this will fix her.

Either way, I'm trying this myself.

Spot reserved for later first-page development.

I've finally aquired everything in abundance!
l-phenyl, iron, niacin, folic acid, magnesium, st. johns wort, coffee, and a bunch of tomato leaves that i picked from wal mart. and also some vitamin C and 5-htp.

I will begin dosing in a day or two, once i run out of bupe.

but i'm wondering when should the vitamin c and 5-htp be thrown in???

^^^People seem to be dosing the vitamin-c and 5-thp around an hour or two prior to the rest.

WRY U LOCK THRED?!? I SPAM UR FORUMZ NAO!!!

Moving on to the next order of business (>400 posts and php runtime limits, for the reader still asking the last question)...

Is this good for someone who has high anxiety? Someone on an SSRI?

Well, that's a long and complicated story, and one which was eaten alive by the board's traffic problems just a little while ago...

...the magnesium is probably good. There's nothing like an amygdalic NMDA antagonist which also serves as a secondary messenger to whatever GABAergic transmission survived the massive influx of dopamine.

...flooding the dopaminergic inputs to the nucleus accumbens is probably good. It's hard to be terrified when you're in tranquil bliss.

...flooding the dopaminergic neurotransmision in the pre/frontal cortex is probably good, as is maximizing the dopaminergic projections of the PFC into the limbic system. It's hard to mindlessly panic when one's mind is locked into rational consideration.

...flooding the interface between the amygdala and the locus ceruleanis with shitloads of noradrenaline is probably bad for anxiety. "As your attorney," which I'm not, I suggest you roofie your gf and tie her to a chair, before feeding her shitloads of magnesium, cough syrup, and St. John's wort when she wakes up. Maybe chuck a shitload of tryptophan down the well, for that secondary oxytocic messaging effect on the amygdala... mmm... sweet, sweet oxytocin, makes all your anxieties go away.

Alternately, you could just dose her with beta blockers. But then, you couldn't become an instant &totse icon by posting pics of you poopering your gf after you roofied her. Where's the fun in that?

Incidentally, should you do something like this without the roofies and the poopering, you'll probably have to balance they hypericum anthroquinones 'n the cough syrup such that they don't interfere with day to day life. As for raw catecholamine builds for anxiety, well... it's a mixed bag. Flooding some things with dopamine has a calming effect, dumping shitloads of adrenaline/noradrenaline has an un-calming effect.

Any suggestions from those of you for whom it worked?

Well...

1g L-tyrosine

^^ multiply by 3 or 4.

will iron as Carbonyl Iron work??

Yes. As will finely ground carpentry nails, or a variety of other sources.

it's also with 117mg calcium.

MOAR MAGNESIUM.

...there's this funny little story about eating an antacid right before a preoperative 250ug tablet of xanax, once... long story short, that was a waste. 'n the hearburn went away just fine.

Anyone know about possible effects of this cocktail on body temperature

Well, there's actual body temperature, and then there's...

...thermoregulation per se is almost entirely serotonergic. Nor/adrenaline, otoh, pretty much shuts off blood flow to the extremeties, doing the opposite of what alcohol does... more-or-less.

I'm starting to really feel like I snorted a whole bunch of amphetamine, but more in a bad way than good, extremely jittery, nervous, keep getting these little rushes like I just got the shit scared outta me.

Yeah. That definately advances the "adrenergic vasoconstriction" hypotheosis.

i believe this cocktail crushes ADD but enhances the anxiety.

Try a little of the St. John's wort. ;)

i get really bad flushes when i take niacin whats up with that bullshit?

i only take 100mg

That's... remarkably normal. You might be able to decrease it a bit by waiting about 5 minutes before taking the niacin... but, no guarantees.

Also, I was wondering how the produced dopamine gets released. This question was asked before and Joe said it was 'cause some of the L-PHEN metabolizes into something that releases dopamine, as well as making some reference to amphetamine during that. But if some dopamine-releasing chemical is produced, wouldn't that show on drug tests?

There's a lot of questions here...

- a lot of dopamine-releasing chemicals will be unlikely to show up on drug tests.

- drug tests test for nothing BUT a specific drug... though in some cases (such as codiene->morphine), these become logically indistinguishabe.

- no drug test will pick up neurotransmitters - such as phenethylamine - and a drug test for neurotransmitters themselves would come back positive for every living person.

The immediate decarboxylation product of phenylalanine is phenethylamine. Amphetamine is alpha-methylphenethylamine. All that methyl group does is serve as an MAO inhibitor for that single molecule, without affecting molecules which it is not.

Personally, I find PEA to be mostly an annoyance. There's more than enough release from simple gross surplus that I don't feel I need a PEA-rage. Luckily, usually, a lot of l-phen metabolizes further 'n it's not that bad in small doses, so long as synthesis predominates... IMO.

Just a quick question though. How do you think this will interact with my risperidone? I'm on 6 mg which still allows for the occasional line or bowl, but it might be dangerous to increase my dopamine levels too far.

Well, the risperidone will blunt the crap out of any dopaminergic agonist.

Also, is there an easy way to increasing serotonin levels? More specifically the 5HT2 receptors?

I believe that antipsychotics blunt the crap out of that, too. Nonetheless, chucking a methyl donor into a fair bit of tryptophan should get at least the unmedicated a few steps down the path of melting walls...

Here's another question, how would this affect my weight lifting if at all? Not completely sure on the effect of extra dopamine on hormone activity

Well... I believe l-dopa is sold in the bodybuilding community as an HGH-promoter. Doesn't mean I believe everything a supplement company tells me. Just means that's what the supplement companies are trying to claim.

What would be the effects of phenethylamine, for example from chocolate, taken with a natural MAO inhibitor be? Bad idea?

Very bad idea. Most natural sources of raw phenethylamine - chocolate, for instance - contain, or could cause you to produce, a crapload of tyramine. Which means... as you've outlined it, the effects would be your heart going pop, along with several blood vessels in your brain.

Might work for raw PEA isolated in proper chemical procedure....

Taking that a little further, how would any amount of a MAO inhibitor affect these supplements' effects?

Well, if you take "several orders of magnitude too much of a good thing," and add in "heart go pop"...

...might not be a bad idea in trace dosages. You can still occasionally get a bitchin' tyramine response without the MAOI, though, so be damn careful.

Fools rush in...

I´ve dosed yesterday and today, and haven´t had any urges to eat since.

...a small pinch of St. John's wort could be right for you. ;)

unless daily gastric intake of any of these supplements fucks with my liver??

Shouldn't particularly. Technically, nothing you can consume doesn't, but probably less than broccoli.

Now that you mentioned melationin, would eating like 3mg daily before bed help with the tryptophan converting into everything other than melatonin (the following morning after like 6hrs of sleep) since there would be plenty of melatonin from night before? or taking melatonin and tryptophan concurrently? Im just trying to find a way around eating more than 4g of vitamin c for the serotonin build.

Worth a try!! Let us know how it goes...

Also, have you tried the 5-meo/dmt version ? has anyone? results?

Not deliberately...

...getting to n-methylates with a giant surge of methionine has ranged from almost-cannabinoid psychedelia, when the tryp'n mixed with the adrenal surge, to, well... swirling tiles on the floor, and other classic indicators.

...getting to huge quantities of n-methylates without additional methionine was the culmination of the most fucked-up week of my life. I spent my ten-second trip trying to figure out if I was masturbating in public or not, but had no means direct or indirect by which to discern this. For those who were curious, I was neither masturbating nor in public.

WTF does that mean? if i eat theze lil red coenzyme q10 caps with teh coctail will i get moar fuxxored?

This is certainly the case if you are eating flawed batches of designer opiates...

...it may or may not be the case otherwise; the extremely brief abstract, and I suspect the study, did not give sufficient data to confirm nor deny... though it certainly looks interesting. Makes one wonder what the action of MPP+ on T3H is, and if there are non-MPP+ things in normal life with similar mechanism.

Would there be any possibility of tolerance to the dopamine cocktail?

Not per se, but neglecting the rest of your brain, and your diet, can blunt things a tad. I usually fix this with one of three things : salad, huge piles of greasy ground beef, a couple days off. All three tend to work.

JP, could you give a description as to the effects of a moderate dose of the serotonin and dopamine cocktails mixed?

I usually end up on the couch cuddling and snuggling with nonspecific imaginary people whom I am very much in love with. It's quite a nourishing experience. Rediculous, but nourishing.

...outside of its most acute phases, well.. it's an alert happiness with ample doses of serenity, tactile comfort, and confident happiness...

...anyways... I think that covers everything...

Was this answered already in the previous thread?

JP-
I have to admit, after the increasingly good results & outcomes of the experiment, as a previous none-believer i decided to give this coctail the good ol' college try.

Using everything except the source of Solanine, i have tried so far, at least 5 times on seperate occasions:
1.5g L-Phen
350mg Magnesium
800ug Folic acid, 100mg Niacin (Luckily, in a Vitamin B complex i have, per pill there is 200ug of teh Folic and 25mg of teh Niacin, therefore i take 4.)
58mg Iron
2 Caps Saint John's wort
200mg Caffeine
and finally, a 1000mg vitamin C supplement.

My problem is, for me, it's not working.. at all. In all honesty, i've noticed nothing :(

Could it be the Vitamin B complex?.. i use only use it for the Niacin as its the one thing i can't get hold of on it's own, as i have Folic Acid supplements. (I of course have tried the coctail with the Folic Acid supplements on their own and simply not used Niacin at all, and this doesn't work too.)

To be honest i'm also on a bunch of meds at the moment, including Atomoxetine (Nordrenaline reuptake inhibitor, for concentration) and Prozac. And Mebeverine, for teh bowe Sometimes Ritalin, although as of it's abuse potential i like to avoid it.. it's a shitty drug, however with my love of recreational activity, i use it anyway.
Any contradictions there, of your opinion?

If you've worked throught this, you're a real trooper, JP.
I love you.
As does &Totse.
And if they don't, they should.
:D

You need the tater, the leaves or the alzheimers med.

I tried reading the original thread but the chemistry jargon was very confusing. Can anyone briefly explain?

Phenylalanine, when taken with the right amounts of other supplements, turns into the same "happy juice" that is released by cocaine, dextroamphetamine, etc.

What is Phenelalanine and is this as harmful as cocaine/dex?

Any contradictions there, of your opinion?

Well, let's see...

The noradrenaline reuptake inhibitors could easily lead to a compensatory downregulation in T3H... but the mebeverine is an acetylcholine antagonist, which definately downregulates T3H.

...the mebeverine also implies that you might want to be more careful than the average person that the cholergenic component of the cocktail, which you missed, absorbs in a way which bypasses your gastric complex as much as possible...

...other than that? Find some niacin! God only knows how much pyridoxine and such you ended up eating... after that, we can try to plink on the rest 'till we force it through... which will likely involve extreme cholergenic upregulation of T3H, among other things.

Was this answered already in the previous thread?

Oh, sorry...

...the official "theraputic" dosage is listed as 1-400ug, so... start with ~200ug and do 50ug bumps every hour or so until you start drooling and raving, then back off?

start with ~200ug and do 50ug bumps every hour or so until you start drooling and raving, then back off?

When you say bumps, you mean orally or insufflated?

What is Phenelalanine and is this as harmful as cocaine/dex?

Phenylalanine is an essential amino acid. Your body needs it to function normally but it doesn't produce it so you get it from eating plants and stuff that produce it.

(Note: any statements regarding the functioning of the human body are grossly oversimplified.)

TLDR? First day, nothing exciting.

Okay, it's taken me a while to get the phenylalanine, but I've finally done it. Day one, felt nothing more than the caffeine, but I hear that's normal:

T-1:15: 1,000mg Vitamin C
T-1:00: 100mg 5-HTP
T-0:30: 250mg magnesium--MgO pill. (was this right or did it have to be absorbed only through the mouth?)
T-0:00: 1 bawls energy drink (feel free to look up the caffeine content, my internets are too slow for that). 65mg Iron, from FeSO4. 500mg L-Phenylalanine. 800ug folic acid. Appx. 125mg Niacin (about a quarter pill). 500mg Vitamin C. Held a chewed-up tomato top underneath my tongue and behind my lower lip for about 5 minutes.

About 5 minutes after the 5-HTP I felt my stomach rumble, but no real pain, just slight discomfort. Moderate stomach pains followed after the start of the mix, but nothing too serious.

I ate right after taking the mixture, should that impair anything? Also, tomorrow I'm planning on taking the magnesium with the rest of the mixture, and only a half gram of vitamin C an hour before the mixture, along with the 5-HTP, as well as a half tsp of flaxseed oil (contains tryptophan?). Sound good? Too much vit. C? Help is appreciated. Also, no niacin flush, though it was nicotinic acid.

EDIT: One last question, would it be a good idea to take a B supplement? I heard positive results from B6 and wanted to get some into the mixture but didn't have any outside the supplement. It also has 100mg niacin, so it could substitute the niacin tabs. Too much chemical competition?

Well, that's a long and complicated story, and one which was eaten alive by the board's traffic problems just a little while ago...

...the magnesium is probably good. There's nothing like an amygdalic NMDA antagonist which also serves as a secondary messenger to whatever GABAergic transmission survived the massive influx of dopamine.

...flooding the dopaminergic inputs to the nucleus accumbens is probably good. It's hard to be terrified when you're in tranquil bliss.

...flooding the dopaminergic neurotransmision in the pre/frontal cortex is probably good, as is maximizing the dopaminergic projections of the PFC into the limbic system. It's hard to mindlessly panic when one's mind is locked into rational consideration.

...flooding the interface between the amygdala and the locus ceruleanis with shitloads of noradrenaline is probably bad for anxiety. "As your attorney," which I'm not, I suggest you roofie your gf and tie her to a chair, before feeding her shitloads of magnesium, cough syrup, and St. John's wort when she wakes up. Maybe chuck a shitload of tryptophan down the well, for that secondary oxytocic messaging effect on the amygdala... mmm... sweet, sweet oxytocin, makes all your anxieties go away.

Alternately, you could just dose her with beta blockers. But then, you couldn't become an instant &totse icon by posting pics of you poopering your gf after you roofied her. Where's the fun in that?

Incidentally, should you do something like this without the roofies and the poopering, you'll probably have to balance they hypericum anthroquinones 'n the cough syrup such that they don't interfere with day to day life. As for raw catecholamine builds for anxiety, well... it's a mixed bag. Flooding some things with dopamine has a calming effect, dumping shitloads of adrenaline/noradrenaline has an un-calming effect.


After a long, painful ticking of the ol' noggin, brooding what the hell you just said, I think I've finally came up with a response.

I'm a little confused on whether you just said that hypericin anthroquinones are better for her anxiety or not. Because as far as I understand, and this is all stemming from what I've read solo on this board, is that "hypericin-spectrum anthroquinones serve as a dopamine beta-hydroxylase inhibitor, reducing cannabalization of dopamine for adrenal production," and wouldn't she want this to limit adrenal production? Rather she be too fatigued than too stimulated?

And this hypericin stuff is the St. Jon's wort? How much is recommended? How much is too much?

I'm also a little at a loss on how the cough syrup is related?

Sorry. Although highly informative, you're posts go right over my head.

I'm also a little at a loss on how the cough syrup is related?

Ca-ching!

http://www.google.gr/search?hl=el&q=NMDA+amygdala+anxiety&meta=

TFSE delivers!! :D Same as the magnesium, but without the natural nutritional value or the secondary ionic messengerhood for GABA...

and wouldn't she want this to limit adrenal production?

Bingo!

Rather she be too fatigued than too stimulated?

Pretty much... especially stimulation involving excess adrenaline!

And this hypericin stuff is the St. Jon's wort?

Yup! A whole host of interrelated analogs, which even synergize!

How much is recommended?

Pure? I'd guess about 10-50ug, maybe less... Raw plant? I take an eyeballed 5-10mg of powdered leaf as a maximal dose, "the amount which will stick on a dry finger on a touch without attempts to trap powdered leaf therewith"... but god knows what condition the average herbal supplement is in. It could be any potency; I think the people in the original DLPA thread were mentioning half-capsules of the standard market product or so...

...if you want to clean it up, an alcoholic solution should form a bright pink band in chromatographic resolution of the target compound. Really quite beautiful when making a tincture of the flowers. Alternately, for a crude enhanced anthroquinone fraction, one can take the flowers, BHO them (save that, the hyperforin which comprises ~80% of the butane extract is pharmacologically identical to cocaine... of course, so's ritalin, so don't get your hopes up, but why throw it out?)... and then an alcohol extract of the remainder should be predominantly hypericum anthroquinones...

How much is too much?

"When you're suicidally tired and unable to focus." ;)

I don't think DBH-inhibition can kill one at any dose, so it has a much higher saftey margin than, say, grain alcohol... but the day after can sometimes be unpleasant in overdose... sort of like not getting enough sleep.

Then again, some people actually deliberately eat seroquel, so who knows...

Day two, same as day 1 but with a few anomalies.

Basically I moved the Magnesium up with the rest of the mix and took it an hour after I had taken 100mg 5-HTP with 500mg Vitamin C. I also lowered my dose of vitamin C for the mixture down to 500mg. Took just under 200mg niacin this time, and drank 2 cups of fresh-ground coffee instead of the energy drink. Went to sleep right after I took this (it appears that caffeine has little effect on me), and woke up an hour after the mixture feeling nothing but a small increase in heartbeat. Ate some borscht w/ bread, and 5 minutes later started chewing a tomato top. 20 minutes after chewing and keeping the mush underneath my tongue each for 5 minutes at a time, I started to feel the niacin flush that faded to an ignorable state after 40 minutes, though I still feel it now if I think about it (5 hours after taking the niacin).

Is it normal that the niacin flush occurred nearly an hour and a half after taking the mixture?
Also, I realized that the flaxseed oil also contains some sunflower oil and a lot of omega oils. The expiration date is in December 2005 though. However it does smell normal, and I'm still debating whether I should take some.
Should I crush up the pills for faster absorption next time?

Any help is appreciated.

Ah nvm... no logs of #bltc...

Dude. This shit is bullshit. The most you fuckers are going to get out of this is a slight increase in energy, and thats mostly from the caffiene.

Of course eating healthy is going to make all drugs better. Thats common fucking sense. None of you will ever get "high" or even come close to the euphoria of a simple ecstacy tab. This might help potenticiate it, but the increase is so low, its pointless.

Go ahead and eat healthy, have a coffee in the morning, have a multivitamin, but dont waste fucking hundreds of dollars on random vitamins just to feel a bit better. Or go ahead and waste your money, what do i care?

Fuck you all.

When you say bumps, you mean orally or insufflated?

Either should work, or buccal or suppository use if you are so inclined. Depending on the dose of your pills, smaller doses may be more conducive to different means, but... if it gets in there, it should have its effects.

and drank 2 cups of fresh-ground coffee instead of the energy drink.

This is usually a good thing. Quick question, though... if I'm reading correctly, you were relying on the energy drink as an iron source; did you replace the iron, or do without?


and woke up an hour after the mixture feeling nothing but a small increase in heartbeat.

That's... usually a telltale sign that one has engaged phenylalanine hydroxylase, but that one's body tried to engage tyramine hydroxylase and eventually gave up, spitting out tyramine. One of the more unusual personality side-effects I've gotten from using this, in fact, is an obsession with keeping my blood pressure low enough to have no detectable pulse, lol... enough tyramine episodes can do that.

...so, now we have a clear and fairly unequivocal symptomatic indication of where on the journey it is getting stuck. All that remains is to unstick it.

Fuck you all.

Y'know, a belief that chemical input affects a chemical reaction is one thing, and a belief that it does not is another. Extreme personal hatred, otoh, is a third thing entirely, unrelated to the other two, and probably belongs in headshrinkers.

In the interim, consumption will probably continue whether those who have not tried it believe or disbelieve your assertions... because tweakers are unlikely to resist anything that cuts their recovery time. ;) It's kinda like trying to get etards to stop munching serotonin precursors.

Is it normal that the niacin flush occurred nearly an hour and a half after taking the mixture?

Fairly remarkably unusual... but it could be an indicator of the rate of absorption... which is itself interesting.

I've had a potato sitting in front of the window for 2 or 3 weeks now, i forget, it has a green tint in most parts, and i peeled some of the skin off today and it looked like a kiwi underneath..
i think I'm just going to get some tomato leaves instead..

Damn, nigga... if I knew you offline 'n you were close by, I would've been more than happy to help you recoup your costs on such a potato.

...if you want to clean it up, an alcoholic solution should form a bright pink band in chromatographic resolution of the target compound. Really quite beautiful when making a tincture of the flowers. Alternately, for a crude enhanced anthroquinone fraction, one can take the flowers, BHO them (save that, the hyperforin which comprises ~80% of the butane extract is pharmacologically identical to cocaine... of course, so's ritalin, so don't get your hopes up, but why throw it out?)... and then an alcohol extract of the remainder should be predominantly hypericum anthroquinones...



Whoa, whoa, whoa, when you say pharmacologically identical, what does that mean? That wouldn't mean identical in effects, would it? So, I wikid Methylphenidate and Hyperforin, and saw that Methylphenidate is a DRI (like cocain), and "Hyperforin is one of the principal constituents identified in St John's wort. Hyperforin is a prenylated phloroglucinol believed to be the main active constituent responsible for its antidepressant effects. (Barnes et al., 2002) Hyperforin has been shown to inhibit the uptake of 5-HT(serotonin), dopamine, noradrenaline, GABA and glutamate. (Chatterjee et al., 1998)" Now this is just me talking, but that sounds recreational. Any thoughts/experience, Joe? Also, if ritalin is pharmacologically identical to coke, why is it so lame and coke so notorious?

Phenylalanine is poison.


so is excess of many vitamins which every1 consumes daily......

gonna try this, i wanna see what all the hype is about :D

This is usually a good thing. Quick question, though... if I'm reading correctly, you were relying on the energy drink as an iron source; did you replace the iron, or do without?
No, I took an 65mg supplement of iron, but it was from iron sulfate, so it was a 325mg pill. The energy drink was just for the caffeine.

That's... usually a telltale sign that one has engaged phenylalanine hydroxylase, but that one's body tried to engage tyramine hydroxylase and eventually gave up, spitting out tyramine. One of the more unusual personality side-effects I've gotten from using this, in fact, is an obsession with keeping my blood pressure low enough to have no detectable pulse, lol... enough tyramine episodes can do that.

...so, now we have a clear and fairly unequivocal symptomatic indication of where on the journey it is getting stuck. All that remains is to unstick it.
Sounds good, but don't you think it could just have been the caffeine? I think it might have been the niacin that kept me stuck, I'll post about that in a sec.

Fairly remarkably unusual... but it could be an indicator of the rate of absorption... which is itself interesting.

It turned out that the niacin was "extended release". But it was nicotinic acid and I had already spent the money on it so I made do. I saw that it contained some calcium phosphate and figured that it was probably coated with the stuff and had the niacin on the inside. So I crushed the pill on my next dose.

Day three: A really good day, though likely a placebo. Needs more experimentation.

Same dosage as day 2, except this time I crushed the niacin into a powder and parachuted it. I probably only took 125ish mg because I can't crush pills worth a damn. No niacin flush this time either. About 11 hours after I felt this deep contentedness inside of me, but that might have been because of a good meal and a period of relaxation after a day of exhaustion. Today (day four) I'll be crushing all the pills and seeing what will happen.

Day four:

5-HTP and Vitamin C crushed and swallowed. An hour and 15 minutes later, crushed and parachuted the rest with 2 cups of coffee. An hour after that felt the niacin flush? Is this when I'm supposed to feel it? Would it be a better idea to take the niacin along with the 5-HTP?

Felt nothing, but I forgot the tomato leaves, so I'll be crushing the pills and chewing some tomato tops tomorrow.

*edit*

Did the research myself, see post below.

Day five small energy boost in the morning, not much else:

T-1:00 Parachuted 100mg 5-HTP, 500mg Vitamin C, and app. 150mg niacin
T-0:50 Feeling a moderate niacin flush.
T-0:00 Drank 2 cups of coffee, parachuted 250mg Magnesium, 65mg Iron, 500mg Vitamin C, 800ug Folic acid, and 500mg L-PA.

So from this I deduced that my last niacin flush was a fluke and that I'll be taking the niacin at the same time next. No more 5-HTP either. Partly to conserve what little vit. C I have, and partly to avoid any chemical competition. I'll also be doing this twice tomorrow.

Whoa, whoa, whoa, when you say pharmacologically identical, what does that mean?

DNSRI. The actions on GABA and glutamate reuptake are new info to me...

That wouldn't mean identical in effects, would it?

Not all the time, no....

Now this is just me talking, but that sounds recreational.

That was my best guess, as well. Unfortunately, I'm still waiting to get my hands on a new shipment of flowers...

Also, if ritalin is pharmacologically identical to coke, why is it so lame and coke so notorious?

I'd guess SARs. I forgot where I put it, but somewhere out there I got this fascinating document which describes how to tweak the structure to change its affinities at serotonin, noradrenaline, and dopamine reuptake sites... presumably, the magnitudes of effect in ritalin are in less-desireable proportions to one another...

...but that's just a guess. Transporter subtypes in different brain regions would also affect things all to hell as well if they were found.

Day five small energy boost in the morning, not much else:

Hmm. This and other commentary of inadequate yet system-appropriate effects suggests that something is making it to neuronal storage... yet it is only natural to, well, want moar.

Hmm. Has you considered choline, and has you a direct source for such a thing?

Hmm. This and other commentary of inadequate yet system-appropriate effects suggests that something is making it to neuronal storage... yet it is only natural to, well, want moar.

Hmm. Has you considered choline, and has you a direct source for such a thing?

Well on day five I also took a tomato top and chewed it, but still nothing. I do have a lot of tomato tops left over so that's not a problem; unless you're talking about something else.

Day six: One hour after dosage, feeling nothing. Fed up with the bullshit, I decided to take double doses today.

T-0:00--Parachuted half a B supplement (includes Vit A, a bit of C, 50mg niacin, and all the B vitamins), about 200mg niacin, 1600ug folic acid, 500mg vit. C, 1,000mg L-phenylalanine, 130mg iron. Drank a bit more than 2 cups of coffee.

T+0:10--Put 2*250mg tablets of magnesium under my tongue until they dissolved. Also chewed 2 tomato tops for the next half hour, though they didn't taste bitter at all, unlike all the others that I had chewed before.

Some light nausea a half hour after dosage, but nothing major.

EDIT: 15 hours after dosage, feeling nothing.

Hey JP, In the other thread you said something about being able to make aspartame into normethylaspartame by boiling it in water. Could you do the same thing in a microwave?

After messing with the dosages, I've come to the current conclusion that this formula needs to be either refined or rewritten, because I sense no "brain boosts", per se. I've tried this, with the Huperzine A, and still nothing. Just a nasty niacin flush and thats it. The potentiation of cannabis was only temporary, might as well have been placebo.

JP? You suggest choline? What kind specifically? I really want this formula to work, or I am not sensitive enough to feel this?

Trust me Diotro...it works. Here's my results:

Trial 1:
1 gram DLPA
200mg caffiene
65mg iron
125mg niacin
800ug of folic acid
350mg magnisium via oral mucosa...didn't swallow the powder, took it 15 min before everything else
4 tomato leaves spaced out 15 min each after initial DLPA dose

From this trial it felt like it just put me in a good mood and mildly stimulated from the caffeine, nothing much.

Trial 2:
Same thing only with 500mg L-Phenylalanine and 7 tomato leaves 3 initially then the last four spread out in 15 min intervals after initial dose. Also, spread over the next 3 hours of the initial dose I took 3 grams of ascorbic acid (vitimin c).

This felt like a shot of adrenaline. It just seems like it builds a confidence in you and you have glow about you. It's pretty sweet, not the easiest to describe but ya, like a lot of adrenaline, I was sweating...

The combo felt a lot too speedy after I had a bowl later that night, I wish I knew exactly how much St. Johns Wort to dose to make it not speedy, I'll try to do the conversions to figure it out... this is especially true with the ascorbic acid.

Anyways, ya good stuff! I'll probably do this every day for a long time because it seems like I'm a much more confident, active person when I do this combo!!

**Edit**
I forgot to mention timing and way of ingestion...on the second try I parachuted everything ('cept for magnisium of course). I also let the tomato leaves sit underneath my tounge. I dosed everything at the same time except for the magnisium (15 min beforehand) and the whole interval way of doing the tomato leaves.

Day Seven: Fucking nothing.

T-0:20--Parachuted ~200mg niacin. Took in pill form: 500mg Vitamin C, 800ug Folic acid, 250mg Magnesium, 65mg Iron, 500mg L-PA.
T-0:00--Drank nearly 3 cups of coffee.

Forgot the tomato leaves, but I don't think you could blame me given the last couple of results. Hopefully tomorrow I'll get more Vit. C and do what kenton did.

This noradrenergic stimulation is awesome. A real beneficial effect to be noted, It KILLS colds. My airways felt incredibly messed up even after a couple shots of cough mixture, took this and suddenly i´m awake and my breathing is free without cough. Something individual to me, is that I have bad circulation in my legs, and when I take this and go outside for a smoke my legs start to cramp up real bad. Serotonin cocktail: Great for meditation, buzzy feeling in body and mind, feeling of warmth. It causes a kind of dopey happiness. The dopamine way for me seems to really speed me up, and the potato sprout/tomato leaves seem to tweak the happiness factor more than the speediness.

Also, forgot to say, I had a good bit of headies today, and felt zoned out when the buzz wore off. The L-phen etc. took care of it :)

Day 3: for those who are interested....

Did everything I did before, including the 5-HTP and 500mg vitamin C.

This was the first time I actually got a strong niacin flush (it's ridiculous not knowing what to expect for a niacin flush and the feeling starting in your testes) , not incredibly unpleasant, just weird looking like a tomato for about an hour and a half.

It didn't work, I felt tired and strung out afterwards.

It's probably because I worked out really hard yesterday and didn't get enough sleep.

So I've tried this three times and it's worked (2/3) by work I mean I found it worthwhile.

That was my best guess, as well. Unfortunately, I'm still waiting to get my hands on a new shipment of flowers...

Definately post somethng when you learn more.


I'd guess SARs. I forgot where I put it, but somewhere out there I got this fascinating document which describes how to tweak the structure to change its affinities at serotonin, noradrenaline, and dopamine reuptake sites... presumably, the magnitudes of effect in ritalin are in less-desireable proportions to one another...

I would very much like to see this document. Its funny, this info about chems having varying effects despite pharmacological similarities, being a result of different affinities for neurotransmitters, I've always thought this but never had it backed up. Thanks.

Okay, so I didn't take anything on day 8, so I guess this is day 9. Changed the mixture to reflect what kenton did. Still nothing. Got 133X1,000mg of vitamin C though, so I should be experimenting with this until the L-phen (or maybe the coffee, who knows) runs out (60 pills).

T-0:15--Dissolved a magnesium oxide tablet w/250mg Magnesium in it under my tongue.
T-0:00--Swallowed the magnesium, parachuted ~200mg niacin, 500mg L-PA, half a B-complex (will list ingredients if desired), 65mg iron, 800ug Folic acid. Drank 2 cups of coffee.
T+0:15--Ate a pear and some oatmeal. Strong niacin flush begins without warning, fades out over the next half hour. Started chewing and holding some tomato tops under my tongue.
T+1:10--After feeling short pangs of slight stomach discomfort and bits of nausea here and there, decide that this is what was meant by "raving mad". At this point I've probably gone through ~20 1cm by 3mm by 1mm of moderately bitter tops. Take 1,000mg Vitamin C
T+1:50--1,000mg Vitamin C
T+3:00--1,000mg Vitamin C

Okay, JP; should I just eat some eggs in the morning or something?

Right so here come the dumb questions ..

With the greened potato, do you actually cook it or do you eat the green flesh raw ?

And choline I have some of this, will it help with the cotail at all ?

Also I have seen people list the supplements they are taking in all sorts of orders through the posts, would someone be kind enough to list a cocktail that worked fro them and the order they took it in ? The niacin flush seems to be an important part in the reaction and people are reporting taking it at many different stages in the coctail, any suggestins here ?

Day 10. Just dosed, according to JP's suggestion I had some choline in the form of eggs and meat.

T-0:20--Dissolved a magnesium oxide tablet w/250mg Magnesium in it under my tongue.
T-0:10--Magnesium is fully dissolved. *swallows it*
T-0:00--Parachuted ~250mg niacin, 500mg L-PA, half a B-complex (will list ingredients if desired), 65mg iron, 800ug Folic acid, and 500mg vitamin C.
T+0:05-0:08--Drank 2 cups of coffee
T+0:08-0:18--Ate 2 hard-boiled eggs, and a ham & cheese sandwich with sun-dried tomatoes.
T+0:20--Started chewing and holding under tongue~10 moderate-highly bitter tomato tops.

to be updated...

Okay, so apparently MgO turns into Mg(OH)2 in the presence of water, which in turn interferes with the absorption of folic acid and iron (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnesium_hydroxide). Research ftw .

Day 11:
T-0:15--Dissolved about 1/8 of a teaspoon of epsom salts under my tongue. According to calculations that should be about ~133mg of Mg++. In reality it was probably less because I couldn't stand the taste after a while and spit it out.
T-0:00--Parachuted: 500mg vitamin C, ~325mg Niacin, 65mg iron, 800ug Folic acid, 500mg L-PA, and half a B supplement (will list ingredients if desired).
T+0:05--Drank 2 cups of coffee.
T+0:20--Start of the strongest niacin flush I've ever felt; entire face as well as knees, upper arms and upper back looks sunburnt and feels very hot and uncomfortable.
T+0:30--Start chewing some very bitter tomato tops.

I'll reply back in 8 hours with the results.

and what is the point of all this ^ ?

you getting some good results ?

Day six: One hour after dosage, feeling nothing. Fed up with the bullshit, I decided to take double doses today.

...

nausea a half hour after dosage, but nothing major.

~sigh~ Yeah, I've been really slacking off in adressing this and other threads.

Anyways... emetic responsiveness is fairly solid proof of the synthesis and decarboxylation of l-dopa, since one of the leading medical uses of indiscriminate dopamine agonists is as an emetic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apomorphine) - ironically, usually in the torture of homosexuals to no medical purpouses, but we'll ignore that...

Other candidates, incidentally, include 5HT3-series serotonin agonists, so the 5H-tryp didn't help... but we'll ignore that for now, because serotonin is like alcohol - it's a good thing, no matter how much it makes you puke.

What makes that little tangent (the one about Dx emeticism, not 5HT3x emeticism) interesting is that dopamine antagonists do not need to cross the blood-brain barrier to be antiemetic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domperidone).

Those who are familiar with the large transport molecule are asking themselves "how fucking much do you eat, fatty, and why the fuck is all of it red meat?"

Irrespective of preliminary speculation as to why your blood-brain barrier functions as though you wolf down ungodly amounts of competitive protiens without pausing for air, the point is that it does - a little mild noradrenal release in the morning is not the full weight of a gram of catecholamine between the ears, while the body side of your blood-brain barrier is apparently reporting full-out dopaminergic toxicity symptoms. Something is not transporting.

If you were really determined, you could try a good fast for a day or so, consuming only protien-deficient things like fruit juice to keep your blood sugar up, and then promptly slam the shit with a glucose tab, to draw the remaining branched-chain amino acids into your skeletal muscle, reducing competition for transport at the BBB even more.

'n in case it's not clear, by "slam," I mean "shove down your gullet swiftly," not IV. 'cause that'd be kinda fucked up, lol. 'specially the "whole plant matter" parts.

...but... we appear to have established dopaminergic symptoms. They're... just not in your brain, unfortunately. Damn.

Hmm...

The only protein I get is 2 pieces of deli meat for my afternoon sandwich (usually turkey or ham). Other than that I gorge on sweets all the time, so I don't think that's what is causing the problems.

Anyway, today (still day 11, the day I figured out not to take MgO), I took 2g of vitamin C 1 and 2.5 hours after the initial mix, and chewed ~15 tomato tops. Still felt nothing.

I'm not going to fast to get this to work (what kind of a drug makes you work for results?), nor will I go out and buy any more pills (unless it's absolutely crucial), and I don't see many reasons for believing that I really am synthesizing the dopamine. Today, for example, I felt no nausea whatsoever. Maybe you could deduce something from my other posts?

and what is the point of all this ^ ?

you getting some good results ?

Read the rest of my posts.

Hey Joe or anyone else who's tried it and got results, how does the serotonin jacking thing compare to a good dose of mdma?

Also, to anyone who might know, is tryptophan actually available as a supplement down here in aus? :)

bump,

Does this really work or what?

How many days consistently do you have to take it for it work?

Arent SSRI's bad for you? - just wondering here


How much St.Johns wort must be taken with the cocktail? ( if i I remember right you said a little bit or something unspecific, Is it easy to od if you wrongly estimated how much a "little bit" is? )


What were you saying, Joe, About 5 hour energy having neurotoxic dosages of B12?

- Could you drink a "5 hour energy" and then eat tomato leaves to get the same results?

I've tried taking the dosages listed on the first few pages of the old thread and I got no effects. However, I didnt eat the tomato or potato sprouts...

------------------------------------------------------------------ Some additional confusion needs additional clarification-------------------------------------------------------------


- Whats the point of the tomato or the potato leaves? - Didnt you say they were an AChe inhibitor? I forget but isnt that what they give to people who get hit by nerve gas?

- Isnt datura in that same category

what happens if I "preload" Adderall with phenylalanine in the same manner someone would preload XTC with 5-HTP? more dopamine released than usual?

Hey Joe or anyone else who's tried it and got results, how does the serotonin jacking thing compare to a good dose of mdma?


The way I did it (35mg 5HTP [I think] and 500mg vitamin c) it was purely synergistic with the cocktail and the cocktail isn't like mdma, I'm not that experienced with many other drugs so just think of extreme confidence + big adrenaline rush. Who knows, may have affected other ppl differently.

How many days 2 work?

It worked on my second day. I'd go for those tomato leaves or potato sprouts, that's what makes the difference for me.

I'm wondering what the toxicity levels for both those are, however, when I looked up 'tomato leaf toxicity' the only thing I found was a government article saying "a lot". Anyways, I weigh 160 pounds and it rarely starts before 7 leaves, I just do the whole three leaves originally then 1 leaf/15 minutes until effects.

Hello there, I just got to try the lala combo...

1. took couple tomato leafs in my mouth for 15 minutes
2. 10 minutes later holded 250 mg magnesium in my mouth for 6 minutes
3. after another 5-10 minutes, I took:
200 mg cafeine
100 mg niacin
54 mg iron
800 ug folic acid
4. 5-10 minutes later, ate 1500 mg dl-phenylalanine powder (taste is good!)

I waited before taking dl-phenylalanine powder to allow capsules and pills to dissolve a bit so that everything would be absorbed at the same rate. I ate some chicken sandwitch 3-4 hours ago and a few chocolate candies 30 minutes before. I will have to try again with more rigor and with more free time on my schedule.

It's been an hour since I took the dl-phenylalanine... right now I feel pretty speedy, probably from the cafeine. Now I just took my heartbeat and it was like usual... 46 beating per minute. This is weird, 200 mg cafeine is a lot, it should have raised it. Maybe it's working...? I have to go to bed pretty soon because I work tomorow. I hope sleep will be okay. So far, I can't tell much about lala... except I had this weird feeling on my heart a few minutes ago... it just felt weird. I'm in a good mood... but things have been going really good for me in the last days so it could be placebo. I also took phenibut this morning so am not surprised I feel good. I also feel quite hungry and a bit sleepy. I will report back tomorow or when I get to try it again. I hope I get something out of this for the trouble and the money I putted in this...

Hello there, I just got to try the lala combo...


l-phen > dl-phen

I stand corrected. From experience I've had better results with the l-phen but I guess there is no reason for why thats possible other than different OTHER conditions.

Joe said this in the first thread but I'll restate it (here's (http://healthlibrary.epnet.com/GetContent.aspx?token=e0498803-7f62-4563-8d47-5fe33da65dd4&chunkiid=21664) my source):
d-phenylalanine inhibits the enzyme that breaks down enkephalins - the natural painkillers made by your body which bind to opioid receptors. Furthermore, d-phenylalanine metabolises to phenylethylamine (http://www.newhope.com/nutritionsciencenews/NSN_backs/Feb_99/depression.cfm?path=ex), which increases "extracellular levels of dopamine" according to Wikipedia.

Anyway, since d-phenylalanine isn't biologically active, it's hard to think of reasons not to take it. A gram of dl-phenylalanine contains 500mg l-phenylalanine with the fringe benefits of stimulating dopamine release and giving you more endorphins. Can't say no to that. :-) I'd say dl-phenylalanine > l-phenylalanine, just use twice as much.

P.S. Tyrosine works great too, more noticeable, but doesn't seem to last as long. It also seems to produce more of the "speedy" effects, but it works better in combination with food. Anyone know why is that? Just for my own curiosity. :-)

Yeah from what I recall, using dl-phenylalanine or l-phenylalanine is fine. After posting my post, I must say I felt pretty good and full of energy and kind of joyful... I started playing a video game I haven't played in a while. I didn't even had to warn up, I was totaly owning other players and just felt great! I went to bed, did a bit of meditation before and my body felt soft, especially my arms... and I just felt good during my sleep (??) and had cool dreams. I woke up at 7 a.m and my mind was racing with ideas and even thought I only slept 6 hours... I feel refresh. I will try again and report back. It seems like there is something promising there.

So, this is a little odd, and I probably should've mentioned this earlier, but there's a nutritional outlet near me that sells L-phenylethylamine as well as L-DOPA. Now, that doesn't seem right, but that's what the bottles are labled as. But, wouldn't taking those be the most direct way to achieve this effect?

This is the stuff:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Phenylethylamine-250mg-caps-Free-United-states-shipping_W0QQitemZ130203023578QQihZ003QQcategoryZ1 9262QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

And this is a shadier version (and way overpriced) but check out the ingredients:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Fastin-Phenylethylamine-HCL-Fast-Weight-Loss_W0QQitemZ160208592544QQihZ006QQcategoryZ31820 QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQ_trksidZp1638.m118.l1247Q QcmdZViewItem
Thermo-Rx® 245mg * Phenylethylamine HCL, R-Beta-Methyl-Phenylethylamine HCL, Methylphenylethylamine Tartrate, Methylsynephrine HCL, N-Methyl-Phenylethylamine HCL, Synephrine HCL, Theobromine Anhydrous, Yohimbine HCL Caffeine (Anhydrous) 100mg *

And if you Ebay L-DOPA, you get a lot of "mucuna", a plant that contains L-DOPA, but I couldn't just find the chemical pure. The bottles of it available at my nutrition place appear to be from the same manufacturer as the phenylethylamine.

Any comment, Joe?

EDIT: Methylphenethylamine? Isn't that just amphetamine? A lie or loophole, methinks

Methylphenylethylamine Tartrate,

Reading is fun.

Sounds intriguing, but I dont like the fact that you guys are talking about eating parts of the deadly nightshade family.

EDIT: Methylphenethylamine? Isn't that just amphetamine? A lie or loophole, methinks

Nope, I was wrong, amp would be phenylproylamine. Still sounds fun though...

You eat tomatoes and potatoes every day, and you are exposed to secondhand smoke from tobacco (or you smoke), AND I'd bet money you have eaten eggplant before.

Don't be a smartass.

Hey Joe or anyone else who's tried it and got results, how does the serotonin jacking thing compare to a good dose of mdma?

Oftentimes, not much. Alot of the thought processes become similar, but if you really want to emulate MDMA, you're going to have to go with catecholamines rising in a shitload of serotonin... oddly enough, they're what really provide the juice.

An unreasonable case of the smilies with impressive calmness is not unusual, though. ;) It's not that bad, sitting around 'n smiling for no reason. 'n dropping tryp with caffiene/iron/etc while you've got a shitload of unprocessed leftovers in your system is damn near identical...

Also, to anyone who might know, is tryptophan actually available as a supplement down here in aus? :)

Sunflower and pumpkin seeds both contain unreasonable amounts thereof. ;)

How much St.Johns wort must be taken with the cocktail? ( if i I remember right you said a little bit or something unspecific, Is it easy to od if you wrongly estimated how much a "little bit" is? )

Well, I use about a quarter of a square milimetre of leaf... but it's some good, potent leaf. Other people go with a quarter-capsule or so.

...it is easy to OD, but luckily, OD's pretty harmless. The fatigue and lethargy are unpleasant, but I've never heard of anyone coming anywhere close to near-death experiences... so, there's room to dink around.

what happens if I "preload" Adderall with phenylalanine in the same manner someone would preload XTC with 5-HTP? more dopamine released than usual?

The reports so far suggest signifigant potentiation and strongly reduced crash.

So, this is a little odd, and I probably should've mentioned this earlier, but there's a nutritional outlet near me that sells L-phenylethylamine as well as L-DOPA. Now, that doesn't seem right, but that's what the bottles are labled as. But, wouldn't taking those be the most direct way to achieve this effect?

l-Dopa is win!!!

...I've generally considered PEA < dopamine, for about the same reason I personally consider amphetamine = phail.... it's great for releasing existing dopamine, yes... but spending 10+ hours as a pissed-off insomniac is nowhere near as fun as that first flush.

...otoh, if you're producing well enough to cover the costs, might as well go for it if you wanna.

Eating straight PEA has the same difficulties as eating DMT, however. Without an MAOI, it runs the risk of being ripped down. You can probably through it in an oil evaporator and have "speed whippets" - I think the only reported duration from this was about 2 minutes of spun - but, well... it can get munched down. If you're hell-bent on the pure-PEA experience, increasing AAAD with b6 while confining one's self to phenylalanine would be more effective... and a great way to end up, well... exceptionally pissed off. With insomnia. Lol...

...but l-dopa? Win. You can not only skip the reagents and have an automatic win, but it'll also quench the discomfort and rage from endogenous PEA synthesys beyond your dopamine stores' capacity to support. Don't have to make anything, just rip it apart and go!

EDIT: Methylphenethylamine? Isn't that just amphetamine? A lie or loophole, methinks

a-methylphenethylamine is amphetamine. n-methyl, 4-methyl, and other such are not.

Incidentally... that b-methylphenethylamine might just be sort of interesting. Should have the potential to possibly be a decent amphetamine analog...

As it turn out, the stuff online just says Phenylethylamine, vs the stuff in the store near me says L-phenylethylamine. Does the isomer matter? If I did go with PEA/LPEA, I should probably do that in combo with the Phenylalanine mix to keep my dope stocked up. Also, would some of those famed hypericum antroquinones keep things more happy and less angry? Also, for ingestion purposes, would intranasal circumvent MAO?

With the L-dopa, wiki says I should take it with something (peripheral DOPA decarboxylase inhibitor) to keep it from getting converted to dopamine on wrong side of the BBB, which is bad. Somewhere else I read that green tea stuff (EGCG?) would work as a peripheral DDCI. Wiki also said if using L-dopa, I should take B6 (to fuel DOPA decarboxylase?), is there any other regent that I would want while using L-dopa?

It also said that they also use a catechol-O-methyl transferase inhibitor to boost L-dopa. Is that worth investigating?

I think I found some some problems with the whole phenylalanine--->dopamine thing. If I understand correctly, the precurser list is there to boost enzymes (Tyrosine and Phenylalanine Hydroxylase) which convert Phenylalanine into Levodopa. That part appears legit (I checked teh refs). But what that fails to take into account (I think...) is that Levodopa is OTC. The reason for this, is because without a preipheral Dopa-decarboxylase inhibitor, it's just not that great. This is because, at least according to preliminary research, the great majority of it gets converted to dopamine on the wrong side of the BBB, where it is not only useless, but actually a bad thing. This dopamine in the body causes the physiological symptoms. (increased heart rate, BP?) So, you can't just take more to compensate for the L-DOPA being synthed in the body 'cause you'd get too many of the "stim" symptoms.

So, what I think this means, is that without a peripheral DDC inhibitor, phenylalanine can't compete with chems that release dopamine or prevent its reuptake.

Oftentimes, not much. Alot of the thought processes become similar, but if you really want to emulate MDMA, you're going to have to go with catecholamines rising in a shitload of serotonin... oddly enough, they're what really provide the juice.

An unreasonable case of the smilies with impressive calmness is not unusual, though. ;) It's not that bad, sitting around 'n smiling for no reason. 'n dropping tryp with caffiene/iron/etc while you've got a shitload of unprocessed leftovers in your system is damn near identical...


Makes me wonder whether you can get a bit of a roll going on if you take some speed or opiates along with it all.


Sunflower and pumpkin seeds both contain unreasonable amounts thereof. ;)



Funny that it's a favourite snack of the Isreali's.. :)

Eh, so if this is anobolic will my pe0r get smaller?

Is JoePedo just getting some lulz at decreasing the penis size of totsians?

/paranoia

Metabolism consists of two major processes: catabolism and anabolism. Catabolism is breaking big shit down into little shit, and anabolism is making big shit out of little shit, to oversimplify things a tad.

In other words, "anabolic" does not mean "anabolic steroids".

Ah ty for your response.

I guess it's just a coincidence that I'm getting random flappy muscles in places that I don't remember singling out.

Eh, so if this is anobolic will my pe0r get smaller?

Is JoePedo just getting some lulz at decreasing the penis size of totsians?

~sigh~ I was hoping that post would remain buried from sometime. ;)

Anyways... actually, most of the side effects of anabolic steroids come not from the anabolic steroids themselves - testosterone and its analogs - but rather from the fact that they decrease the body's production. "Roid rage," for instance, is a symptom of low testosterone.

In this case, the anabolic side effects come from insulin. Dopamine raises insulin sensitivity in muscle tissue, and its anabolic effects would be pretty much no different than dopamine-mediated insulin sensitization from other sources, such as meth or heroin... except for the fact that tweakers and junkies aren't neccesarily known for eating big and eating well, lol. ;)

Ironically, since insulin releases LH and FSH, which cause a release of testosterone (and since niacin increases HDL to fuel the biosynthetic steroidal pathway), releasing dopamine and eating a fuckload of carbs would have the opposite effects of injecting... your gonads would produce more test, which might make your balls grow. 'n ironically enough, cassia, whose polyphenols were investigated as upregulating insulin sensitivity, did show "an increase in testicular weight" when its overdose was investigated... though this could be a result of god knows what, really.

So, no. Dopaminergically-increased insulin sensitization, while anabolic, is not going to shut off your testes. ;) Only a sledgehammer can do that.... :p

eating a fuckload of carbs would have the opposite effects of injecting... your gonads would produce more test, which might make your balls grow.

Oh fuck I gotta try this. I'm gettin' a ruler + high carb diet.

...perhaps some cassia too...

Glad to not have pedo-sized balls too...no offence. :)

Okay, so apparently MgO turns into Mg(OH)2 in the presence of water, which in turn interferes with the absorption of folic acid and iron (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnesium_hydroxide). Research ftw .




wait... so does this mean that magnesium, as magnesium oxide, won't work for this???
If so, I'll need to acquire a different form of magnesium then.



I also found a source for DLPA at 50, 500mg tablets for $2.45 a bottle. online. ftw! :)

wait... so does this mean that magnesium, as magnesium oxide, won't work for this???

It's dependent on a change in gastric pH...

http://www.truestarhealth.com/Notes/1431002.html
http://www.harristeeter.com/healthnotes.aspx?org=harristeeter&pgpid=359&ContentID=1481006
https://healthlibrary.epnet.com/GetContent.aspx?token=e0498803-7f62-4563-8d47-5fe33da65dd4&chunkiid=21407
http://health.med.umich.edu/body.cfm?xyzpdqabc=0&id=6&action=detail&AEProductID=hw_cam&AEArticleID=hn-1242008&AEArticleType=Cam

...etc, so any neutral or acidic salt would do, or for that matter, probably just chugging a shot of vinegar or lemonade...

Seeing as any quantity of magnesium in just about any form in the gastrointestinal tract will, umm, motilize your colon, one usually tries to avoid getting it in there anyway... but buccal or sublingual, or even IV/IM, won't interfere if you don't swallow anything.

I also found a source for DLPA at 50, 500mg tablets for $2.45 a bottle. online. ftw! :)

Sweet. there's a reasonable price. ~$0.10/g is about where it should be...

would introducing a DOPA decarboxylase inhibitor be a good idea? Why not some B6 as well?

would introducing a DOPA decarboxylase inhibitor be a good idea?

If you want the mix to be totally useless then sure!

EDIT: Nvm, was thinking of something else.

You'd need a peripheral dopa decarboxylase inhibitor (PDDI). I've done the research. Not available except by perscription; carbidopa, benserazide, are the common ones. These, B6, and LDOPA (unlike PDDI's, LDOPA is OTC) would be major win.

On the other hand, if you could source a PDDI, it would also be great with the phenylalanine/tryptophan cocktail. Keep all that sh!t on the right side of the BBB. A big part of the problem with the cocktail is the loss to the peripheral enzymes. Still works great though.

Oh, and without a PDDI, don't take the cocktail with B6. If you do, your stuff will be way more metabolized on the peripheral end of things. There's a reason JP didn't include it in the original formulation. Also, I think it does something else you don't want. JP'll explain when he comes around.

You'd need a peripheral dopa decarboxylase inhibitor (PDDI). I've done the research. Not available except by perscription; carbidopa, benserazide, are the common ones. These, B6, and LDOPA (unlike PDDI's, LDOPA is OTC) would be major win.

On the other hand, if you could source a PDDI, it would also be great with the phenylalanine/tryptophan cocktail. Keep all that sh!t on the right side of the BBB. A big part of the problem with the cocktail is the loss to the peripheral enzymes. Still works great though.

Oh, and without a PDDI, don't take the cocktail with B6. If you do, your stuff will be way more metabolized on the peripheral end of things. There's a reason JP didn't include it in the original formulation. Also, I think it does something else you don't want. JP'll explain when he comes around.

Hmm, well I don't think B6 is such a horrible idea with DLPA. Obviously, a terrible TERRIBLE idea with 5-HTP or L-DOPA.

But with such an early precursor as L-PA, and products that easily pass the BBB (tyrosine, L-DOPA) I would think that B6 with L-PA is not so bad of an idea. Plus, generic pyridoxine hydrochloride is not active immediately, it's gotta be converted into pyridoxal phosphate before it can be a cofactor.

I may be wrong though, so take it with a grain or two of salt. :D

So in short: No one's gotten any effects.

False; the ratio at last count was about 2:1 reporting positive effects.

Someone did a writeup around here...

Plus, generic pyridoxine hydrochloride is not active immediately, it's gotta be converted into pyridoxal phosphate before it can be a cofactor.

...of course, if consumed with a phosphate ester lysis inhibitor to promote cAMP-mediated phosphorylization of serine 40.... that conversion is a one-way trip.

The only endophenethylamine which can actually cross the blood-brain barrier as its decarboxylate alkaloid is... phenethylamine. Charming stuff, the molecule that amphetamine (alpha-methylphenethylamine) was modeled on, but a bitchin' dopamine releaser and hence, depletor.

If all one's amino resources to MAKE dopamine are turned into stuff that depletes dopamine by forced mass decarboxylation... it can get hard. Sort of a double whammy, as contrasted against, say, amphetamine abuse. Don't get me wrong, I fully advocate that everyone should feel free to try it once, 'cause it's not going to kill you or anything... but unlike 5HTP and/or l-DOPA, it might end up being a rough ride that you spend, well... rather pissed off...

As far as I can tell, the only thing worse to mix a caffiene/b6 megadose cocktail with than l-PA is... d-PA. Go ahead and give it a try if you want. If you don't mind being really fucking pissed off, it'll keep you awake for a while.

False; the ratio at last count was about 2:1 reporting positive effects.

Someone did a writeup around here...
DLPA (or LPA) FTW. Success right here.


...of course, if consumed with a phosphate ester lysis inhibitor to promote cAMP-mediated phosphorylization of serine 40.... that conversion is a one-way trip.

The only endophenethylamine which can actually cross the blood-brain barrier as its decarboxylate alkaloid is... phenethylamine. Charming stuff, the molecule that amphetamine (alpha-methylphenethylamine) was modeled on, but a bitchin' dopamine releaser and hence, depletor.

If all one's amino resources to MAKE dopamine are turned into stuff that depletes dopamine by forced mass decarboxylation... it can get hard. Sort of a double whammy, as contrasted against, say, amphetamine abuse. Don't get me wrong, I fully advocate that everyone should feel free to try it once, 'cause it's not going to kill you or anything... but unlike 5HTP and/or l-DOPA, it might end up being a rough ride that you spend, well... rather pissed off...

As far as I can tell, the only thing worse to mix a caffiene/b6 megadose cocktail with than l-PA is... d-PA. Go ahead and give it a try if you want. If you don't mind being really fucking pissed off, it'll keep you awake for a while.
Wait, what is this? I can normally follow your stuff, but what is being taken here to release massive dopamine? Is this just the simple addition of b6 to the cocktail or something more?

Also, if 5HTP is added to the cocktail, that produces serotonergic responses as well, right? How can the um.."entertainment value" of the 5HTP addendum be maximized?

Hey JP, i posted this ages ago, and never got a reply. It was just a thought, as your concoction is essentially a means of creating Dopamine in your body, like L-dopa. You claim if we had L-dopa, then we can skip the process and take it and get high- but the problem here is, L-dopa doesn't get you high, it acts on different Dopamine receptors to that which stimulates the reward system- this is obvious, isn't it? :S
I mean if this was true- taking L-dopa would be an infinitely superior version of Cocaine, but it's not. It has nothing to do with the reward pathway. The drug'd be moved up to Schedule 1 and immediately become the world's most infamous/notorious recreational substance..
Then again, i'm probably all wrong here. It was just a thought as to why hardly anyone is declaring the insane highs we once all thought would individually ensue..
Correct me. :)

Correct me. :)

http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/119335325/abstract?CRETRY=1&SRETRY=0
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6TB9-4NY4RXT-2&_user=10&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&view=c&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=6ed07a95fe0054dd710ead2917399722
http://biopsychiatry.com/levdophi.htm

Okay.

Wait, what is this? I can normally follow your stuff, but what is being taken here to release massive dopamine? Is this just the simple addition of b6 to the cocktail or something more?

In the case mentioned, 100mg b6 tablet, though smaller doses seem to perform the effect.

It's not as cool as you seem to think it sounds... but go ahead and try it.

Conversely, more intelligently-applied microdoses at opportune times perform better than the text you're quoting. I just corrected a deficiency, and that was nice, but a slight excess of dose is unfun. Doubly (actually, a lot more than doubly) so with l-PA and caffiene in one's system.

Also, if 5HTP is added to the cocktail, that produces serotonergic responses as well, right?

Quite. :)

How can the um.."entertainment value" of the 5HTP addendum be maximized?

Oh, a couple ways...

...one of the easiest is to dose the PA the day before, and then just swap out the PA for tryp the next day. One should have some l-tyr and l-dopa residues floating around from yesterday, plus a spot of 5HT, the residual elevation of NE... perfect.

Of course, the simplest thing one has to do is to try to consume the 5HT with a low-impact effective stimulant to try to minimize the conversion to melatonin. Caffiene, large doses of ascorbic acid, what have one. Ephedrine seems to overpower it a tad... it doesn't take much, just enough to make bodily-drowsy fatigue not quite possible.

...but the lazy way is to just replace the l-5H/T for the PA when one's dopamine is high, or alternately, the day before...

http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/119335325/abstract?CRETRY=1&SRETRY=0
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6TB9-4NY4RXT-2&_user=10&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&view=c&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=6ed07a95fe0054dd710ead2917399722
http://biopsychiatry.com/levdophi.htm

Okay.

You know, at one point I was taking it, but in all my caution, never thought to jack the dose. I might still have some laying around...

In the case mentioned, 100mg b6 tablet, though smaller doses seem to perform the effect.

It's not as cool as you seem to think it sounds... but go ahead and try it.

Conversely, more intelligently-applied microdoses at opportune times perform better than the text you're quoting. I just corrected a deficiency, and that was nice, but a slight excess of dose is unfun. Doubly (actually, a lot more than doubly) so with l-PA and caffiene in one's system.

If this was done with the standard LPA stuff AND some L-DOPA, would that about level out dopamine losses?

...one of the easiest is to dose the PA the day before, and then just swap out the PA for tryp the next day. One should have some l-tyr and l-dopa residues floating around from yesterday, plus a spot of 5HT, the residual elevation of NE... perfect.

Of course, the simplest thing one has to do is to try to consume the 5HT with a low-impact effective stimulant to try to minimize the conversion to melatonin. Caffiene, large doses of ascorbic acid, what have one. Ephedrine seems to overpower it a tad... it doesn't take much, just enough to make bodily-drowsy fatigue not quite possible.

...but the lazy way is to just replace the l-5H/T for the PA when one's dopamine is high, or alternately, the day before...

thanks.

that stuff called "focus factor" has all the ingredients mentioned minus caffeine and amino acids (including huperzine A)

im not convinced the dopamine we're creating is in the brain

^where else is it being made then genius...

Fuck you're stupid.

Well dude, thats exactly what I think separates no-effects, from Awesome effects. I hit a ringer just one time, the dopamine definitely crossed the BBB, but all the other times Ive tried I haven't quite gotten it, that slight euphoria, energy/adrenaline rush, great mood lift. It was quite impressive! Anyways you should record EXACTLY how you take the cocktail each time you do, and do a trial and error, like I plan too, because the effects are truly worth it. ;)

why can't someone right a standrdized text of what we should take to reach these effects. including amounts were appropriate like dosage/body mass. im getting sick of being confused by evrything in this thread

^ he read my mind

as for that detox lady....she cured herself from a disease she didn't even have...wtf?

False; the ratio at last count was about 2:1 reporting positive effects.

Someone did a writeup around here...



...of course, if consumed with a phosphate ester lysis inhibitor to promote cAMP-mediated phosphorylization of serine 40.... that conversion is a one-way trip.

The only endophenethylamine which can actually cross the blood-brain barrier as its decarboxylate alkaloid is... phenethylamine. Charming stuff, the molecule that amphetamine (alpha-methylphenethylamine) was modeled on, but a bitchin' dopamine releaser and hence, depletor.

If all one's amino resources to MAKE dopamine are turned into stuff that depletes dopamine by forced mass decarboxylation... it can get hard. Sort of a double whammy, as contrasted against, say, amphetamine abuse. Don't get me wrong, I fully advocate that everyone should feel free to try it once, 'cause it's not going to kill you or anything... but unlike 5HTP and/or l-DOPA, it might end up being a rough ride that you spend, well... rather pissed off...

As far as I can tell, the only thing worse to mix a caffiene/b6 megadose cocktail with than l-PA is... d-PA. Go ahead and give it a try if you want. If you don't mind being really fucking pissed off, it'll keep you awake for a while.


Ahh, I had no idea PEA was produced from LPA...I'm glad you've mentioned that, I've found myself feeling particularly angry on some mornings lately...

Methinks I'm gonna move my EmergenC dose to midday...;)

If the goal is more dopamine, wouldn't selegiline be a lot easier? Probably a lot I'm missing here I know...

Well dude, thats exactly what I think separates no-effects, from Awesome effects. I hit a ringer just one time, the dopamine definitely crossed the BBB, but all the other times Ive tried I haven't quite gotten it, that slight euphoria, energy/adrenaline rush, great mood lift. It was quite impressive! Anyways you should record EXACTLY how you take the cocktail each time you do, and do a trial and error, like I plan too, because the effects are truly worth it. ;)

dopamine can't cross the bbb you mean L-DOPA, but ya i get what your saying...

the problem is that dopamine in peripheral tissue has completely different ramifications than dopamine within the CNS and i really don't desire any excess dopamine outside the CNS in the same way excess serotonin outside the CNS is generaly undesirable....dopamine outside the brain has alot of involvement with prolactin...

Now if i could get my hands on a PDDI to go along with this cocktail than I think this might have more recreational potential

Ahh, I had no idea PEA was produced from LPA...I'm glad you've mentioned that, I've found myself feeling particularly angry on some mornings lately...

Methinks I'm gonna move my EmergenC dose to midday...;)

PEA is produced from both DPA and LPA

dopamine can't cross the bbb you mean L-DOPA, but ya i get what your saying...

the problem is that dopamine in peripheral tissue has completely different ramifications than dopamine within the CNS and i really don't desire any excess dopamine outside the CNS in the same way excess serotonin outside the CNS is generaly undesirable....dopamine outside the brain has alot of involvement with prolactin...

Now if i could get my hands on a PDDI to go along with this cocktail than I think this might have more recreational potential

I had your same concerns and I forget how JP answered them, but I think he did a few pages back. But, yea, I think would be content with a massive boost of PEA. Not truly content, but it has its purpose.

As for the PDDI: Online Pharmacies. Unlike strong script opiates, Parkinson's Meds are somewhat less regulated. Well, actually, not really regulated at all (IE, I don't think the gov will care about you foreign sinemet). I was looking a while back, but got distracted. I found a few possibilities, and recently a legitimate online pharm review board site.

Don't ask about opiates on such sites, but I think posting about where to get cheap, non-prescription sinemet wouldn't raise any eyebrows. Make some shit up about how you're old and can't afford doctors, but know you have parkinson's, I think people on such boards would be more than helpful.

Also, EGCG (the sh!t in green tea) is a DDI, and it's a pretty fuckin' big molecule (IE not likely to cross the BBB), thus making it a PDDI. Not 100% on that last bit, though...

Oh, if EGCG works, and does so without too many adverse other stuff, then it'll also mean major good sh!t for the coctail with Tryptophan, and do so in a really OTC way. If I find time and money, I'll do some trials.

EDIT: Did some research and found out EGCG does cross the BBB (Suganuma, 1998) making it a general DDI, not just a peripheral one. Oh, well...

I had your same concerns and I forget how JP answered them, but I think he did a few pages back. But, yea, I think would be content with a massive boost of PEA. Not truly content, but it has its purpose.

As for the PDDI: Online Pharmacies. Unlike strong script opiates, Parkinson's Meds are somewhat less regulated. Well, actually, not really regulated at all (IE, I don't think the gov will care about you foreign sinemet). I was looking a while back, but got distracted. I found a few possibilities, and recently a legitimate online pharm review board site.

Don't ask about opiates on such sites, but I think posting about where to get cheap, non-prescription sinemet wouldn't raise any eyebrows. Make some shit up about how you're old and can't afford doctors, but know you have parkinson's, I think people on such boards would be more than helpful.

Also, EGCG (the sh!t in green tea) is a DDI, and it's a pretty fuckin' big molecule (IE not likely to cross the BBB), thus making it a PDDI. Not 100% on that last bit, though...

Oh, if EGCG works, and does so without too many adverse other stuff, then it'll also mean major good sh!t for the coctail with Tryptophan, and do so in a really OTC way. If I find time and money, I'll do some trials.

EDIT: Did some research and found out EGCG does cross the BBB (Suganuma, 1998) making it a general DDI, not just a peripheral one. Oh, well...

thanks for the insightful response but I'm officially convinced that Joe Pedo has failed epically here for the following reasons...

-one can bypass the whole cocktail by simply taking L-DOPA
-Dopamine is most likely created within peripheral tissue instead of within the CNS. Dopamine within peripheral tissue controls several functions including the production of the hormone prolactin.
-even if you can find a PDDI and throw some L-DOPA in there this combo is not euphoric or even healthy for that matter. The only thing this cocktail is going to potentiate is psychosis. Seriously, they use this (Sinemet) as a medication for Parkinson's Disease and elevated levels of dopamine is the main cause of schizophrenia.

I'm not saying if you take this cocktail you will go crazy but I do believe the logic behind this cocktail is inherently flawed. Feel free to convince me otherwise.

For those who don't know the lingo...
*L-DOPA is the direct precursor to Dopamine
*PDDI a PDDI inhibits Dopamine production at peripheral tissue, maximizing dopamine production within the brain

thanks for the insightful response but I'm officially convinced that Joe Pedo has failed epically here for the following reasons...

-one can bypass the whole cocktail by simply taking L-DOPA


No. L-dopa doesn't magically get you high. L-Dopa + PDDI + 5HTP + B6 would be epic though.


-Dopamine is most likely created within peripheral tissue instead of within the CNS. Dopamine within peripheral tissue controls several functions including the production of the hormone prolactin.


It's not really harmful acutely, though. And SOME of it will get to the brain.


-even if you can find a PDDI and throw some L-DOPA in there this combo is not euphoric or even healthy for that matter. The only thing this cocktail is going to potentiate is psychosis. Seriously, they use this (Sinemet) as a medication for Parkinson's Disease and elevated levels of dopamine is the main cause of schizophrenia.Hehe, wouldn't go that far buddy. Elevated dopamine levels are also the main cause of feeling fucking fantastic.

And that schizophrenia\dopamine link?

It's about as proven as the serotonin\depression one.

(READ: We have no fucking clue how it works)


I'm not saying if you take this cocktail you will go crazy but I do believe the logic behind this cocktail is inherently flawed. Feel free to convince me otherwise.

For those who don't know the lingo...
*L-DOPA is the direct precursor to Dopamine
*PDDI a PDDI inhibits Dopamine production at peripheral tissue, maximizing dopamine production within the brainApparently, some people have gotten decent effects from it. I haven't, but then again, I've never tried it. :P

-one can bypass the whole cocktail by simply taking L-DOPA

True, and in fact, this is specifically mentioned.

However, the original thread was some guy asking "wut teh hell does DLPA do?," which rather changed the focus of the thread.

-Dopamine is most likely created within peripheral tissue instead of within the CNS.

False, actually.

If l-DOPA from ingested amino acids didn't lead to dopamine within the CNS, several parts of the nervous system would entirely shut down - among them the motor cortex, the frontal lobes, and the VTA.

Ergo, the fact that we aren't all a bunch of terminally pissed-off, convulsing zombies actually proves that ingestion of amino acid precursors will create dopamine in the CNS. No two ways about it...

...now, if you had've said dopamine will most likely be created within peripheral tissues and within the CNS, you would have been correct. Instead, however, you posited a false dilemna whose CNS-prong can be tested by the predictions of the hypotheosis (loss of motor control, constant rage, etc) - and is found wanting when those predictions are checked against the world.

Dopamine within peripheral tissue controls several functions including the production of the hormone prolactin.

You forgot a few... ;)

- bodily comfort/absence of RLS. ;)

...and, of course...

- regularity of gastric motility.

...which is an interesting side effect, albeit concurrently dependent on tryptamines.

-even if you can find a PDDI and throw some L-DOPA in there this combo is not euphoric

That's actually contradicted by the literature.

or even healthy for that matter.

...though that's certainly up for free debate, with references. ;)

The only thing this cocktail is going to potentiate is psychosis.

Well, the term "only" is contradicted by the literature... but the fact that it's a hallucinogen in strong enough excess actually is noted in the literature regarding l-DOPA abuse.

I'm not saying if you take this cocktail you will go crazy but I do believe the logic behind this cocktail is inherently flawed. Feel free to convince me otherwise.

Well, to be blunt, the hypotheosis-prediction and falsification surrounding "no amino acid consumed will ever turn into dopamine in the brain" is probably the best argument there, while the literature surrounding l-DOPA abuse for euphoria is probably the best argument surrounding the euphorogenesis of dopamine.

Personally, I'd honestly be afraid of chronic abuse of a PDDI - the whole "bodily comfort versus restless leg/body syndrome" is a pretty freaking compelling argument in my mind, despite how thoroughly sensical a more rare and occasional, intelligent use of a PDDI might be.

Personally, I'd consider the most ideal method of CNS uptake to be one of decreasing competition for the transport molecule (http://www.jci.org/articles/view/5017); in short, this would probably involve a protien fast immediately prior to reduce the general plasma levels of LNAA, and the intake of glucose to force the subset of LNAA which are also BCAA into skeletal muscle through insulin release, reducing competition at the blood-brain barrier...

Once that's done, dilution should help make up the remainder; while the linked article discusses displacing phenylalanine with tyrosine, any of the large neutral amino acids can displace others by changing their relative concentrations...

The ideal short-term case, of course, would be one in which hepatically-synthesized, undecarboxylated l-DOPA successfully shut out 100% of tyrosine and phenylalanine, as well as histidine and methionine, while the BCAAs were drawn into skeletal muscle - leaving uptake across the blood/brain barrier totally occupied by the ratio of l-DOPA and 5-HTP desired... for a few hours, with the ensuing decarboxylation and release continuing thereafter. It'd take the processing load off the CNS and guarantee that the maximum possible intake was devoted to increasing one's stores of happiness... though it'd sort of be shit for structural protien synthesis if one kept it jammed 24/7.

The common case, however, is merely one of proportional displacement, as illustrated in the article. LNAAs are drawn up on the basis of their plasma levels, and compete with each other. This is just manipulating the outcome of that competition ever-so-slightly, on the side of reward, pleasure, and clear function and signalling of the frontal lobes... ;)

the subset of LNAA which are also BCAA

What? i-butyl groups are "large" now?

EDIT: Oh, I get it; the transport protein takes up both, but they're different groups rather than subsets.

What? i-butyl groups are "large" now?

EDIT: Oh, I get it; the transport protein takes up both, but they're different groups rather than subsets.

Damn. Notinb4edit...

Yeah, I'm assuming the LNAA transport was named before they figured what all it took up. Personally, I wouldn't exactly go around calling any sort of monomer peptide an "astoundingly-giganormic macromolecule," but technically, some of the smallest amino acids around are "large amino acids" when viewed from the perspective of "what does the 'large neutral amino acid transporter"... transport?" ;)

...which, of course, makes the BCAA a subset of the LNAA for discussions of transport, and completely seperable groups for a discussion of, well... function, or effects on molecular weight...

Crazy, but a historical artifact. Sort of like how we call propanone "acetone," despite having more carbon than the various acetyl crap like acetic acid or acetic anhydride or acetoxy masking groups or acetamide or... etc. Since it was originally probably characterized as a ketone derivative of acetic acid, "acetone" appears to have stuck...

There's a few other quirks like that... "sodium carbonate" is actually disodium carbonate while "sodium bicarbonate" is actually sodium carbonate, or monosodium monocarbonate, or just plain sodium monocarbonate.

Such is life, 'n it was apparently a lot easier to just avoid changing all the names of everything when science figured out shit it didn't know.

Since it was originally probably characterized as a ketone derivative of acetic acid, "acetone" appears to have stuck...

Exactly. Acetone was made by destructive distillation of AcOH back in the day. Still today, the process is the inspiration for many a false reaction in chemistry books and many more a meth cook. But that's the nature of scientific knowledge, it has "inertia", if you will; it just makes it difficult to learn for each successive generation of scientist. Anyway, enough about that, back to L-PA. I've been taking just the TBH activators for a few days (and Tyr hydroxylase jammers) and have yet to feel anything. Any comment or is it to early to call?

False, actually.

If l-DOPA from ingested amino acids didn't lead to dopamine within the CNS, several parts of the nervous system would entirely shut down - among them the motor cortex, the frontal lobes, and the VTA.

Ergo, the fact that we aren't all a bunch of terminally pissed-off, convulsing zombies actually proves that ingestion of amino acid precursors will create dopamine in the CNS. No two ways about it...

...now, if you had've said dopamine will most likely be created within peripheral tissues and within the CNS, you would have been correct. Instead, however, you posited a false dilemna whose CNS-prong can be tested by the predictions of the hypotheosis (loss of motor control, constant rage, etc) - and is found wanting when those predictions are checked against the world.

Yup, of course a portion of the dopamine is created within the CNS the question is simply how much and does peripheral dopamine production create an issue here?

No. L-dopa doesn't magically get you high. L-Dopa + PDDI + 5HTP + B6 would be epic though.



It's not really harmful acutely, though. And SOME of it will get to the brain.

Hehe, wouldn't go that far buddy. Elevated dopamine levels are also the main cause of feeling fucking fantastic.

And that schizophrenia\dopamine link?

It's about as proven as the serotonin\depression one.

(READ: We have no fucking clue how it works)

Apparently, some people have gotten decent effects from it. I haven't, but then again, I've never tried it. :P

i would say the depression/serotonin link is pretty solid at this point.
But also anecdotaly speaking i have induced pretty intense serotonin syndrome on myself by taking some of those said supplements and it was pretty horrible in terms of anxiety and fear so i do believe there is risk involved.

Interesting this topic should come up now. I was just reading into DL-Phenylalanine in combination with selegiline/deprenyl (seletive MAO-B inhibitor) in order to greatly asist the conversion of the Phenylalanine into Phenethylamine/PEA.

But I'm only 21, so I was thinking of taking a small dose of selegiline (1 mg every 4 days, to start off with). I hear it naturally accumulates, and once MAO-B levels are reduced it takes a couple weeks for them to return... but I was wondering with such a small dose, spread out quite far apart, would I receive enough MAO-B inhibition to make much of a difference with the Phenylalanine converting to phenethylamine? I've heard some very interesting things about the combination of selegiline and phenylalanine... but I'm not sure if at that dosing I'll be able to reach much benefit?

I've read reports where people taking 5-10 mg of selegiline/deprenyl boosted the brain's natural production of PEA via MAO-B some 25x or so... which sounds quite significant. But I'm too young to be using selegiline at that high of a dose, so I'm wondering if in a month, dosing 1 mg about twice a week at every 4 days, will my brain tissues accumulate enough selegiline to inhibit MAO-B enough to make much of an impact in phenylalanine's conversion into phenethylamine?

I was thinking of doing this for the whole motivation/antidepressant purpose... but I don't want to screw around too much with my dopamine system at such an age.

True, and in fact, this is specifically mentioned.

However, the original thread was some guy asking "wut teh hell does DLPA do?," which rather changed the focus of the thread.



False, actually.

If l-DOPA from ingested amino acids didn't lead to dopamine within the CNS, several parts of the nervous system would entirely shut down - among them the motor cortex, the frontal lobes, and the VTA.

Ergo, the fact that we aren't all a bunch of terminally pissed-off, convulsing zombies actually proves that ingestion of amino acid precursors will create dopamine in the CNS. No two ways about it...

...now, if you had've said dopamine will most likely be created within peripheral tissues and within the CNS, you would have been correct. Instead, however, you posited a false dilemna whose CNS-prong can be tested by the predictions of the hypotheosis (loss of motor control, constant rage, etc) - and is found wanting when those predictions are checked against the world.



You forgot a few... ;)

- bodily comfort/absence of RLS. ;)

...and, of course...

- regularity of gastric motility.

...which is an interesting side effect, albeit concurrently dependent on tryptamines.



That's actually contradicted by the literature.



...though that's certainly up for free debate, with references. ;)



Well, the term "only" is contradicted by the literature... but the fact that it's a hallucinogen in strong enough excess actually is noted in the literature regarding l-DOPA abuse.



Well, to be blunt, the hypotheosis-prediction and falsification surrounding "no amino acid consumed will ever turn into dopamine in the brain" is probably the best argument there, while the literature surrounding l-DOPA abuse for euphoria is probably the best argument surrounding the euphorogenesis of dopamine.

Personally, I'd honestly be afraid of chronic abuse of a PDDI - the whole "bodily comfort versus restless leg/body syndrome" is a pretty freaking compelling argument in my mind, despite how thoroughly sensical a more rare and occasional, intelligent use of a PDDI might be.

Personally, I'd consider the most ideal method of CNS uptake to be one of decreasing competition for the transport molecule (http://www.jci.org/articles/view/5017); in short, this would probably involve a protien fast immediately prior to reduce the general plasma levels of LNAA, and the intake of glucose to force the subset of LNAA which are also BCAA into skeletal muscle through insulin release, reducing competition at the blood-brain barrier...

Once that's done, dilution should help make up the remainder; while the linked article discusses displacing phenylalanine with tyrosine, any of the large neutral amino acids can displace others by changing their relative concentrations...

The ideal short-term case, of course, would be one in which hepatically-synthesized, undecarboxylated l-DOPA successfully shut out 100% of tyrosine and phenylalanine, as well as histidine and methionine, while the BCAAs were drawn into skeletal muscle - leaving uptake across the blood/brain barrier totally occupied by the ratio of l-DOPA and 5-HTP desired... for a few hours, with the ensuing decarboxylation and release continuing thereafter. It'd take the processing load off the CNS and guarantee that the maximum possible intake was devoted to increasing one's stores of happiness... though it'd sort of be shit for structural protien synthesis if one kept it jammed 24/7.

The common case, however, is merely one of proportional displacement, as illustrated in the article. LNAAs are drawn up on the basis of their plasma levels, and compete with each other. This is just manipulating the outcome of that competition ever-so-slightly, on the side of reward, pleasure, and clear function and signalling of the frontal lobes... ;)

fail.

fail.

http://www.facepalm.org/images/31.jpg

fail.

Son? BLTC is pretty damn heavily science-affiliated, which means that while you can criticize anyone and anything you like - there are no sacred cows - you're damn well going to have to be a lot more constructive, concrete, and specific than that.

'cause that's science, nigga. 'n we down for hard drug-science 'round here.

will my brain tissues accumulate enough selegiline to inhibit MAO-B enough to make much of an impact in phenylalanine's conversion into phenethylamine?

Pardon my brevity, I'm running late.

Selegine - and MAO-B - doesn't handle conversion, which is handled by AAAD. It prevents the PEA from breaking down, which raises levels.

I hear it naturally accumulates, and once MAO-B levels are reduced it takes a couple weeks for them to return...

That's true for an irreversible enzyme inhibitor, but the enzyme is active the minute the inhibitor leaves your system if it's reversible.

I don't know which selegine is, and don't have time to google it - but medical science has usually tried to avoid most irreversible inhibitors since the invention of Sarin.

I was just reading into DL-Phenylalanine... to greatly asist the conversion of the Phenylalanine into Phenethylamine/PEA.

Speaking of which, watch out for overconversion, if you're fucking with conversion rate, but...

Get a chirally bonded sorbent and chromatograph the isolate d-phen. It's still alleged by the literature to be an active substrate for AAAD but will not further metabolize. Continue to eat normally.

With care, you can outcompete with d-phen for AAAD and then jack up conversion rates so the rest of your amino byproducts decarboxylate at a standard, rather than deleteriously high or low, rate. This should allow you to maintain any level of PEA you want, and PEA (unlike most endophenethylamines) will cross the blood-brain barrier.

I was thinking of doing this for the whole motivation/antidepressant purpose... but I don't want to screw around too much with my dopamine system at such an age.

:D Dopamine's close to harmless to mess around with; it's glutamate you have to worry about, whose excitotoxicity provides the 'fuse box' for the dopaminergic system.

Speaking of which...

i would say the depression/serotonin link is pretty solid at this point.

While it's been established that the effects of serotonin are close to opposite of depression, the 5HT/depression hypotheosis per se is being phased out.

Check the ketamine trials for treatment-resistant depression. IMO, it's a much better step than the fucked-up "norepineprhine hypotheosis" and the fucked-up drugs that came out of that, when it supplanted the 5HT hypotheosis to create the SNRIs and before the NMDA/AMPA hypotheosis.

Whole damn chapter was a monkeyfuck. I've bitched about it before.

But that's the nature of scientific knowledge, it has "inertia", if you will; it just makes it difficult to learn for each successive generation of scientist.

Yup. But it also gives informally-trained "outsiders" a strong competitive edge. No dogma. ;)

and Tyr hydroxylase jammers

lol que?

You realize that's usually a synonym for "inhibitor," right? WTF U EATINZ?

I've been taking just the TBH activators for a few days ... and have yet to feel anything. Any comment or is it to early to call?

Doez u has headache/cardiac symptoms?

If no, umm... detox for a bit, nigga... if so, skip the PA and force what's there through.

gotta run, plur.

lol que?

You realize that's usually a synonym for "inhibitor," right? WTF U EATINZ?

But not in this case. :o

Some quick question..

I've been reading through the previous thread, and I've seen it asked, but i can't seem to find the answer anywhere so far..
what exactly is the role of ascorbic acid? 'cause I ordered a 'phat bottle of it along with the DLPA and tyrosine.

I haven't had a chance to try it with any AchE inhibitor yet, (I'll eventually get around to it) but so far this cocktail has been winning all over! :)

Concrete, constructive, and specific example of your failure? ok.

the cliffs...

spl1ff: "could you be more specific about the effects?"

JoePedo:
"if you've got a fuckload of serotonin, you will immediately start rolling."
"fairly huge amounts of euphoria"

Me: o'rly?

JoePedo: "There is no drug that proper amino loading cannot blow out of the water."

Me: lol wut?

JoePedo:
"expect to nod the fuck out everytime you go to sleep, with all the euphoric bliss and everything else that such entails."

Me: "one can bypass the whole cocktail by simply taking L-DOPA"

JoePedo: "True, [...]"

Me: So you mean the legal and cheap supplement L-DOPA induces euphoria/bliss and blows other drugs out of the water?

...

JoePedo:http://webjunk.info/wp-content/uploads/2008/07/fail-keyboard.jpg

the cliffs...

So, you're saying your assertion actually had no relation to the entirety of the long-ass post you quoted?

Umm... okay.

Me: "one can bypass the whole cocktail by simply taking L-DOPA"

JoePedo: "True, [...]"

Me: So you mean the legal and cheap supplement L-DOPA induces euphoria/bliss and blows other drugs out of the water?

The slight flaw in your little summary is that, in order to be accurate, you would have had to replace "JoePedo: True" with "JoePedo: Yeah, and that was mentioned about half a year before you registered."

Nice try, but try to read the thread (both) and the actual replies to you before you just go and post whatever you feel like, if it tries to be about something. No biggie, happens sometimes, but it'll help.

If you don't feel like being pertinent to what's going on from the moment you register, try to keep it to "molotov everything." Much more appropriate. Either way.

But not in this case.

...then I'll assume you meant the phosphorylization inhibitors/dephosphorylization promoters.

(edit : the fuck nigga? Been up for a few days and waiting to come down. long story involving holiday scheduling. phosphorylization promoters/dephosphorylization inhibitor. eh, sorry, fuckin' sketched)

Yeah. Detox off those too. ;) 'cause after your system's cleaned, you'll probably be spending a day eating attack doses of them... and detoxing the next few days after. ;)

We... will... make... your... transport... work! :)

what exactly is the role of ascorbic acid?

Upregulates noradrenaline production by upregulating dopamine production via means unknown in the noradrenal cortex known as the locus cerulianis. If you're looking for the refs, I think it's somewhere in the first thread.

The original hive post was "potentiates adrenomimetic challenge via mechanism unknown;" it was a while ago, and good luck finding a whole and intact hive archive.

I haven't had a chance to try it with any AchE inhibitor yet, (I'll eventually get around to it) but so far this cocktail has been winning all over!

Oh lawd... lol. Have fun...

It was originally induced to adjust for enzymatic downregulation after several years of use...

...but, hey. It belongs there. Spend the sixty cents; buy a potato some time and see if you like it. ;)

Will do, JP. Just piracetam and choline for the next couple of days. Or should I cut those too?

Oh, yeah. Thanks for mentioning that...

:D Definately lots of choline. Back off when you start having enough muscle twitches (in my experience, usually facial skeletal muscle, but could just be me) to be annoying, and stay just beneath that... in the "rarely occasional" random muscle tic category...

...be careful jacking it up, though. Remember the poor boy who locked himself into full-on involuntary skeletal convulsion with that shit; I hear it kinda sucked... so approach gently, but definately ramp it to the threshold bottom underside of interfering choline side-effects. Keep it there for a few days while detoxing.

Your orders in your sleeper position will arrive by encrypted message in the next few days.. ;)

Oh, yeah. Thanks for mentioning that...

:D Definately lots of choline. Back off when you start having enough muscle twitches (in my experience, usually facial skeletal muscle, but could just be me) to be annoying, and stay just beneath that... in the "rarely occasional" random muscle tic category...

...be careful jacking it up, though. Remember the poor boy who locked himself into full-on involuntary skeletal convulsion with that shit; I hear it kinda sucked... so approach gently, but definately ramp it to the threshold bottom underside of interfering choline side-effects. Keep it there for a few days while detoxing.

Your orders in your sleeper position will arrive by encrypted message in the next few days.. ;)

Okay then, if I do take AChE inhibitors it will be in ridiculously small dosages. I'll also take some lecithin to push it up there, no more than 360mg of choline phospholipids per day.

Personally, I'd honestly be afraid of chronic abuse of a PDDI - the whole "bodily comfort versus restless leg/body syndrome" is a pretty freaking compelling argument in my mind, despite how thoroughly sensical a more rare and occasional, intelligent use of a PDDI might be.
What do you mean by rare, occasional, intelligent use? Is your concern that overuse of a PDDI would produce a distinct lack of DA? I thought having some carbidopa around would be the sh!t for this cocktail. Seeing as how I get effects without it, I can only imagine if ALL that dopamine wound up in the brain. Jesus.

Oh, something I asked earlier but didn't get a response on was the use of B6 with DLPA (to make lots PEA) and LDOPA (to replenish depleted DA) and if one can source it* carbidopa (so each and every one of these lovely chems gets made in the brain). I have been interested in boosting PEA for a while (in the original thread you mentioned someone made PEA whippets, something I was contemplating) but just bumping it naturally seems much easier than that. And, with something in the system to replenish DA, does PEA have definite recreational potential?

*Further googling confirmed that sinemet is available online, cheap, and unwatched. Some sites I found actually had it listed as a nutritional supplement.

EDIT: Oh... almost forgot. Can you post an official cocktail recipe 2.0? I'm still working off of the original (25mg niacin, .4mg folic, .1mg huperzine caps, 18mg iron, and 200mg caffeine, all per 500 mg DLPA) and I haven't been able to follow some of the advances in the formula as of late.

EDIT: Oh... almost forgot. Can you post an official cocktail recipe 2.0? I'm still working off of the original (25mg niacin, .4mg folic, .1mg huperzine caps, 18mg iron, and 200mg caffeine, all per 500 mg DLPA) and I haven't been able to follow some of the advances in the formula as of late.

Yes, a "cocktail recipe 2.0" should be compiled with all useful information. I mean this thread is sort of the recipe, but if it was compiled into one post, I'd be one happy camper.

Is sublingual Magnesium still the best method of administration for example, epsom salts? Or can a low-dose of oral Mg affect the GI tract without acting as a laxative?

I've been using this formula for the past few working days, and to be honest I've been noticing a slight mood lift, although nothing to cry home about.

1g of L-PA
Super B-Complex + C
an extra 125mg of Niacin (Not Inositol)
extra Folic Acid (800mcg)
54mg of Iron
400mg of Huperzine A
500mg of L-Tyrosine
A cup of coffee or two

All are taken on an empty stomach 45mins to an hour before breakfast, to allow the B's to break down and be ready for food-to-energy conversion, but maybe that's why it's not working for me.

It could also be the fact that I am lacking an Mg source. Tips? Is my timing off? These supplements are all contained in capsules; should they be combined and parachuted? Does this cocktail need to be taken over time to eventually gain some benefit?

Forgive me for my ignorance, but this whole thread has always been very exciting and interesting to keep up with.

this thread has me a bit confused as well. So you can just buy something at the store instead of making a cocktail for the same effects? also, the cocktail instructions are placed throughout this thread and is confusing me even more.

Yes, a "cocktail recipe 2.0" should be compiled with all useful information. I mean this thread is sort of the recipe, but if it was compiled into one post, I'd be one happy camper.
Cocktail 2.0? Oh here it is, I got it right here hold on... L-DOPA. That's it! Stop wasting your time (and money) on his overhyped cocktail to do the same thing one supplement does.


next up: someone try a dperenyl+l-dopa or deprenyl+pea combo

...next up: someone try a dperenyl+l-dopa or deprenyl+pea combo


Even better: Selegeline + D-PA + L-DOPA + 5-HTP + Caffeine + Iron

Take B complex like 45 minutes in. BAM.

Cocktail 2.0? Oh here it is, I got it right here hold on... L-DOPA. That's it! Stop wasting your time (and money) on his overhyped cocktail to do the same thing one supplement does.


next up: someone try a deperenyl+l-dopa or deprenyl+pea combo

I got some l-dopa and took 2 grams of it. Didn't do much of anything. So either, l-dopa by itself is lacking, or my shit it bunk (a real possibility considering dietary supplements aren't regulated). If anyone wants to know, its Unique Nutrition brand. 250mg capsules. Haven't tried it with DLPA. I'll do that. I think the advantage of DLPA is PEA production, an essential component of the cocktail.

Also, deprenyl isn't OTC, is it? Where does one get it?

I got some l-dopa and took 2 grams of it. Didn't do much of anything. So either, l-dopa by itself is lacking, or my shit it bunk (a real possibility considering dietary supplements aren't regulated). If anyone wants to know, its Unique Nutrition brand. 250mg capsules. Haven't tried it with DLPA. I'll do that. I think the advantage of DLPA is PEA production, an essential component of the cocktail.

Also, deprenyl isn't OTC, is it? Where does one get it?

No sir. It's Rx only, but not scheduled.

(USA)

Apparently you can get a decent buzz from some(high quality) dark chocolate when combined with selegiline alone.

There are plenty of sites offering it, and seeing as it's unscheduled I would imagine they are legit.

No sir. It's Rx only, but not scheduled.

(USA)

Apparently you can get a decent buzz from some(high quality) dark chocolate when combined with selegiline alone.

There are plenty of sites offering it, and seeing as it's unscheduled I would imagine they are legit.

I don't know why, but I view MAOI's to be bad sh!t. I've probably heard to many nightmare stories, but mainly it's that they don't get out of your system for a while.

I still hold that since sinemet is also unscheduled, that would be the safest option ('cause MAOI's are bad) and would yield the same results as selegiline. I would then assert that when taken with extra B6 and phenylalanine (thus boosting endogenous PEA production) as well as extra L-DOPA and possibly some tryptamine precursers, this would be the GREATEST THING EVAR! Well, next to opiates and alcohol (taken together), of course.

I still hold that since sinemet is also unscheduled, that would be the safest option

Dude, your handle is a slang term for a schedule I drug. Don't you think that schedule III Marinol or unscheduled research cannabinoids like CP-55,940 or HU-210 would be a safer alternative?

Anyway, selegiline is an MAO-B inhibitor. MAO-B deaminates phenethylamine. MAO-A inhibitors are where you sometimes run into trouble because they deaminate norepinephrine.

Also, selegiline has a half-life of 2 hours, so it would probably be out of your system before many of the other chemicals you propose putting into your body, which should pretty much assuage any fear you still have about MAOIs. :-)

Dude, your handle is a slang term for a schedule I drug. Don't you think that schedule III Marinol or unscheduled research cannabinoids like CP-55,940 or HU-210 would be a safer alternative?
This is a joint account (don't ask why). The hadn;e was a function of my counterpart. As for the idea, I wouldn't know where to begin looking for marinaol, CP-55, or HU-210. Hydroponichronic, on the other hand, is everywhere.
Anyway, selegiline is an MAO-B inhibitor. MAO-B deaminates phenethylamine. MAO-A inhibitors are where you sometimes run into trouble because they deaminate norepinephrine.
I thought the problem was amine neurotransmitter toxicity in general. MAOA works on about everything with nitrogen, leading to an unpleasently/deadly buildup of DA, NE, and serotonin. I don'tknow a whole lot about MAOB, but even if it was more selective, it still seems to me like playing with fire.
Also, selegiline has a half-life of 2 hours, so it would probably be out of your system before many of the other chemicals you propose putting into your body, which should pretty much assuage any fear you still have about MAOIs. :-)
Although the short half life is very reassuring.



BTW, WTF's JP @?

BTW, WTF's JP @?

Dead.

Dead.

JP, JP, WHY HAST THOU FORSAKEN US?!?!?!?!

/endblasphemy

This is a joint account (don't ask why).

lol

"joint account"

JoePedo has been playing with our minds since day one.

Those who felt it speak in placebo.

What do you mean by rare, occasional, intelligent use?

A PNS without dopamine is sort of like heroin withdrawl, nicotine withdrawl, and amphetamine withdrawl all at once...

...well, okay, that last one focuses more on CNS than PNS symptoms, but it affects both. Long story short, I wouldn't want to PDDI my way into the 90-odd percent of my body that's on the OTHER side of the blood-brain barrier having shutdown of several systems...

So... occasional use, is good. Enough to shut down... anything which operates on an amine neurotransmitter... is, umm... bad. 'n yes, aromatic amino acid decarboxylase is that nonspecific.

Among other things, you'd also lose the ability to clot your blood. Look how well that worked for the royal families of europe, no?

(in case you're wondering on the mechanism... platelet aggregation is highly serotonin-dependent, which, yes, is an aromatic decarboxylate monoamine)

Is your concern that overuse of a PDDI would produce a distinct lack of DA?

Bingo!

...plus other aromatic monoamines.

I thought having some carbidopa around would be the sh!t for this cocktail. Seeing as how I get effects without it, I can only imagine if ALL that dopamine wound up in the brain. Jesus.

:D Also true.

You can shorten the recovery time by shoving ungodly craploads of protien in your face on the days you don't take carbidopa, and it's probably harmless in moderate use - not to mention, potentially really fun.

...but... yes, the flipside of that is that if you notice you happen to have really bitchin' RLS and happen to be leaking blood out your pores... lay off the constant carbidopa OD, man. 'least for a little bit.

Oh, something I asked earlier but didn't get a response on

Sorry.

was

...problem.

1.
the use of B6 with DLPA (to make lots PEA)

2.
and if one can source it* carbidopa (so each and every one of these lovely chems gets made in the brain).

You have a forced mass decarboxylation of an aromatic amino acid and forced inhibition of an aromatic amino acid. Pick only one...

...and, yes, you could theoretically rely on the BBB blockade of carbidopa to let them compete for the limited AAAD in the brain. PEA, otoh, crosses the BBB just fine, and you're probably better off trying to crash your catecholaminergic system by stuffing the caffiene and the B6 megadose in the same cap while taking the PA, and then slamming your system with the l/carbi-dopa mix when the heightened euphoria turns into rage 30-60 minutes later...

just bumping it naturally seems much easier than that.

It is. To the point of accidentally ODing on PEA (and the loss of later-stage metabolites) accidentally, in fact.

And, with something in the system to replenish DA, does PEA have definite recreational potential?

I would say it would be fairly likely in (and only in) that case...

Hell, not replenishing, it works really fucking good mixed with a tryptophan overdose, it's just that it sucks ass 30-60 minutes later when one runs into a 100% deficit.

EDIT: Oh... almost forgot. Can you post an official cocktail recipe 2.0? I'm still working off of the original (25mg niacin, .4mg folic, .1mg huperzine caps, 18mg iron, and 200mg caffeine, all per 500 mg DLPA) and I haven't been able to follow some of the advances in the formula as of late.

Well, your niacin is 1/4 mine and your iron is a third mine, and I still sometimes redose those two a few hours later. For the most part, though, the formula remains the same as the first thread... with the exception of the fact that pretty much everyone who reported reduced results, except you, was utilizing the huperazine...

Hmm. It really begs for investigation. Starting with trying to confirm quality control of the supplement market...

But... yeah. The basic concept, you just wrote out. Except that buccal and sublingual soleanaceous quid has a higher success rate than huperazine by reports to date. The number of options and customizations are... vast, and mostly covered in the first thread. 'cept the things that haven't been posted yet. Your list is also short on the shoving of dried milk of magnesia or epsom salts into one's cheek like a cracked-out squirrel, which was also in the first thread, and - as noted in the first thread - the day to day alteration of dopaminergic megadoses with tryptaminergic doses (same formula, skip the ACh manipulation, swap l-pa/l-tyr with l-tryp or 5htp, the former charmingly avaliable in massive dosages from things like sunflower, pumpkin seed, and, of all things, shrimp)... often promotes a vigorous seratonergic/dopaminergic balance...

...and better living through chemistry (the hedonistic socioutopic concept rather than the forum) usually isn't complete without both of these.

JP, JP, WHY HAST THOU FORSAKEN US?!?!?!?!

I was... umm... writing a book?

post
Dope. :)
I was... umm... writing a book?
I knew it! lol.

I have everything minus the Potato, rearing to go but I have a few concerns.

I bought the nessisary things, but they are not pure. In adition to all the other stuff, I would have to be prepared to also take a whole host of various vitamens in large excesses, particually B6 and B12. I don't want to poison myself so tell me if it would be safe to take, or should I just wait until I can get the pure suplements.

Well, your niacin is 1/4 mine and your iron is a third mine, and I still sometimes redose those two a few hours later. For the most part, though, the formula remains the same as the first thread... with the exception of the fact that pretty much everyone who reported reduced results, except you, was utilizing the huperazine...

Hmm. It really begs for investigation. Starting with trying to confirm quality control of the supplement market...

This makes sense to me, because

1. There is no quality control, so the Huperzine potency varies immensely.

2. I only experienced results while using tomato leaves.

does anyone know (JP?) what should or could be taken before, during, or after taking L-dopa??

I just bought a bottle of 60, 400mg Mucuna Pruriens (10% L-DOPA) along with several grams of fairly pure 5-HTP.
should be fun.

Take mucuna and 5HTP and take both with B6. Then, a half hour later take Phenylalanine (ideally DL, not just L). Then as soon as you start felling effects, take two magnesium. Then, five hours later, get on totse and post results.

I just bought some Huperzine A. 50 caps of 50 mcg each (micrograms, right? so that'd be .05mg each) Thats a total 2.5 mg.

And how much do I need per 1g DLPA? I'm seeing mixed figures on this one.

Another thing, whats up with the epsom salts? Why can't it be taken orally as a vitamin? I do have epsom salts but I bought it as a fertalizer for my mj plants, I wounder if it'd be safe...

I'm waiting for my DLPA to arrive, it was just shipped today and should take a couple of days. I'll post my findings after I try it a couple of times.

Here is my cocktail recipe I'm working on:

-1 g DLPA
-0.1 mg Huperzine A (?)
-Multivitamin containing notably:
---180 mg vitamin C
---6 mg B6
---36 mcg B12
---800 mcg folic acid
---240 mg Mg
---32 mg Niacin
-27 mg Iron
-100 mg caffeine
-a cheek full of epsom salts (?)

Do you think thats enough B6 and B12? Anything else you'd change?

Once I got everything sorted out, I'm going to try 3 experiments and, hopefully, two trials for each. The first will be the DLPA cocktail on it's own, the second will be the DLPA cocktail mixed with poppy pod tea, and the third will be the poppy tea on it's own.

Take mucuna and 5HTP and take both with B6. Then, a half hour later take Phenylalanine (ideally DL, not just L). Then as soon as you start felling effects, take two magnesium. Then, five hours later, get on totse and post results.

I'll have to get more DLPA, as i just ran out today. I've gone through two bottles of DLPA, one of L-PA, and one of L-tyrosine, and DLPA seems to be, by far, the best.

I also don't have pure tablets of B6 yet (it's on the list of things to get) but i do have this energy spray that has.. for each 5 sprays (dose) 10mg B6, 200mcg of B12, and 125mg Niacin/B3,
along with a "216mg proprietary energy blend of: Caffeine, Green Tea Extract, citric acid, Guarana extract, Panax Ginseng extract, White Willow (bark), Astragalus root, Bee Pollen, Fo-Ti (root), Ginko Biloba (leaf), Royal Jelly, Cinnamon extract, and Galangal extract.
could this possibly be used till i get B6 tabs?

So, nothing else should really be taken with it? no caffeine? no AchE inhibitor/green-potato/tomato leaves?

One of the biggest things I have noticed here is nobody has said shit about the dangers of Iron.

Large doses of Iron every day are sure-fire way to go to the hospital.

One of the biggest things I have noticed here is nobody has said shit about the dangers of Iron.


LIES.

I'm positive it has been stated, I'm not gonna go back and read everything to find where though.

I'll have to get more DLPA, as i just ran out today. I've gone through two bottles of DLPA, one of L-PA, and one of L-tyrosine, and DLPA seems to be, by far, the best.
Yup.
I also don't have pure tablets of B6 yet (it's on the list of things to get) but i do have this energy spray that has.. for each 5 sprays (dose) 10mg B6, 200mcg of B12, and 125mg Niacin/B3,
along with a "216mg proprietary energy blend of: Caffeine, Green Tea Extract, citric acid, Guarana extract, Panax Ginseng extract, White Willow (bark), Astragalus root, Bee Pollen, Fo-Ti (root), Ginko Biloba (leaf), Royal Jelly, Cinnamon extract, and Galangal extract.
could this possibly be used till i get B6 tabs?
I'm going to be hoonest, while I put up with huperzia extract for huperzine (and maybe mucuna for ldopa), I don't trust the shit out of herbal extracts. I don't know what any of the "energy-related" herbal stuff does, but I'd say steer clear. But I could be wrong. Anywho, it does have the B6 and B12 you could use, so go for it. Just check B6 and B12 dosages. No more than 3000% of daily B6 and nor more than 5000% daily B12. It shouldn't be toxic, it just seem excessive to go more than those.
So, nothing else should really be taken with it? no caffeine? no AchE inhibitor/green-potato/tomato leaves?
Caffeine should potentiate, but don't overdo. maybe 100-200mg. As for AchEI, in this case, I don't know what it would help, but what the hey, just throw some huperzine (.5mg) at it anyway. Or maybe green potato, but I feel better about huperzine.



sry, cozy
I'll get to your post later.

I found my dlpa in my mailbox last night, so I think I have everything I need.

Just a couple of questions I still need answered:

1) How much huperzine do I need?
2) How do I take the epsom salts?
3) Why can't I just take magnesium as a vitamin?

Thanks for any help.

I just bought some Huperzine A. 50 caps of 50 mcg each (micrograms, right? so that'd be .05mg each) Thats a total 2.5 mg.

And how much do I need per 1g DLPA? I'm seeing mixed figures on this one.
Potency varies with the stuff (even though it says standardized .05mg) so anywhere from 1~6 caps (".05"-".30")
Another thing, whats up with the epsom salts? Why can't it be taken orally as a vitamin? I do have epsom salts but I bought it as a fertalizer for my mj plants, I wounder if it'd be safe...
You could take Mg as a vitamin, but the max you can take without getting diarrhaea is probably 500mg at a time. It'd be healthier maybe to take more, so you have to take it in the cheek. I wouldn't recommend using Epsom (much less fertilizer Epsom) but only because I don't know the biological role of sulfate ions in the body. It might just be paranoia, but, ask JP. But, anywho, he did recommend the epsom, and it's like $1/lb ($2/kilo) so what they hey.

Here is my cocktail recipe I'm working on:

-1 g DLPA
-0.1 mg Huperzine A (?)
-Multivitamin containing notably:
---180 mg vitamin C
---6 mg B6
---36 mcg B12
---800 mcg folic acid
---240 mg Mg
---32 mg Niacin
-27 mg Iron
-100 mg caffeine
-a cheek full of epsom salts (?)
looks good
Do you think thats enough B6 and B12? Anything else you'd change?
JP would advise against B6 and B12, but they're in low dosages, so don't worry about it.
Once I got everything sorted out, I'm going to try 3 experiments and, hopefully, two trials for each. The first will be the DLPA cocktail on it's own, the second will be the DLPA cocktail mixed with poppy pod tea, and the third will be the poppy tea on it's own.
Make sure you standardize the tea batches. You might get more goods in one batch than in another, leading to opinions about DLPA.
I found my dlpa in my mailbox last night, so I think I have everything I need.

Just a couple of questions I still need answered:

1) How much huperzine do I need?
2) How do I take the epsom salts?
3) Why can't I just take magnesium as a vitamin?
1) Probably .2mg (4 caps)
2) I'd say 15ml of epsom in the cheek for 5-10min, but like I said, get the kind from the store, not the fertilizer. Oh, and spit when you're done. Nothing craps up your day like a shit-ton of diarrhea.
Thanks for any help.
You're welcome. You can show your gratitude by posting results.

You're welcome. You can show your gratitude by posting results.

Will do! And thanks again.

Before you try some DLPA combos, make sure you get the cocktail working first. Like we've seen, some people have to take more of some stuff (caffeine, huperzine, niacin, etc) who knows. My biggest worry is that the huperzine dosage is unestablished (JP said it had very low success sates) but I have faith in the stuff 'cause it works for me (+ its an NMDA antagonist and though the supplements are usually weak, huperzine is a well established AChEI) So... yea... just make sure you got a working cocktail. It it doesn't, blame the huperzine and take more. Hopefully it doesn't kill you. If there are problems that upping the huperzine doesn't fix, post back.

Just got my L-dopa [extract] and 5-HTP powder in the mail today! :)

the 5-HTP came with this cool lil' plastic measuring scooper, one side is 100mg, and the other side I'm not sure what it is yet, but it's way smaller than the 100mg side.

Results shall be posted soon :)

So...

quick question before this place gets shut-down and all of this VALUABLE information and time is lost. :(
I'm gonna need to go through and save everything :(



what's a good dose of this Mucuna Pruriens extract, each cap is 200mg, standardized to conatin 15% L-dopa.