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Network (in)Security Interesting hacks and cracks. Info on firewalls, TCP/IP, encryption, networks, and security. The ins and outs of the phone system, caller services, how things work, what's illegal and what's not, cellular phones, beepers, telephony legislation, the PUC, ISDN, taps, who's listening, and switches. Talking about phones, hacking systems, technical advice, and such is completely LEGAL in the United States -- it's covered by the First Amendment. What's illegal is conspiracy to commit a crime. So if you say something like "Meet me at 2am so we can crack a can" or "I changed my cell phone's number myself" you are criminally liable. Stating "You can crack a can by doing thus-and-so" or "If you wanted to change a cell phone's number, you could do it like so" is perfectly OK. Posting passwords, calling card numbers, or credit card numbers is forbidden on this network. Posting such info will get you booted off the net.

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  #1   Add Lazarus to your ignore list  
Old 2008-02-09, 09:56
Lazarus Lazarus is offline
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Default unprotected wifi

Hi... I'm not entirely sure if this is the right forum for this post, but I'll ask anyways.

Say you had received a letter saying that a copyright infringement had been detected on your IP (for downloading software etc)... If your wireless AP is unprotected (or even protected by WEP), isn't it pretty much open for anyone to use?

The crux of it all is: Can having an unprotected wireless access point be a plausible defence (UK spelling) to copyright infringement, seeing as literally anyone with a wireless enabled computer within a 100ft radius could use the connection?

Thanks
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  #2   Add Toxic Shadow to your ignore list  
Old 2008-02-09, 11:19
Toxic Shadow Toxic Shadow is offline
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Default Re: unprotected wifi

Im afraid not, it's your responsibility to ensure your network is secure
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  #3   Add Lazarus to your ignore list  
Old 2008-02-09, 11:56
Lazarus Lazarus is offline
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Default Re: unprotected wifi

balls.

I was afraid someone was going to say that. It's a somewhat contentious legal issue as far as I can tell; the problem is that the only precedents of cases like this are between massive organisations like the RIAA (and whatever the british equivalent is) and small-time, average individuals. As I see it, they can pretty much bully people into going quietly and settling out of court because they know that the organisation will be able to afford top notch lawyers to assrape you in court, and the law seems to favour the big companies anyway.

The only case I've found in my (albeit brief) search where someone was stupid/brave enough to go to court with the RIAA, she got slapped with a fine of $220,000. That was for sharing music files on Kazaa - just under $10k per song. Wtf?
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  #4   Add Prometheum to your ignore list  
Old 2008-02-09, 18:52
Prometheum Prometheum is offline
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Default Re: unprotected wifi

In the US it's been used successfully before. Check out the Electronic Frontier Foundation, and contact them, they'll have the best legal advice on this matter.
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  #5   Add oddballz194 to your ignore list  
Old 2008-02-09, 19:21
oddballz194 oddballz194 is offline
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Mental Ward #173
Default Re: unprotected wifi

In the US, the RIAA and MPAA have a habit of dropping cases involving unprotected wireless APs because they don't want to go through the expensive courtroom process and have to pay the lawyers of their opponents.

It's quite hard for them to extract money from someone for a legal tort (such as copyright infringement) unless they can prove that specific person was really involved.

Of course, they can always ask for a subpoena and forensic examination of your computer even if you have an open AP...
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  #6   Add Prometheum to your ignore list  
Old 2008-02-10, 06:45
Prometheum Prometheum is offline
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Default Re: unprotected wifi

...And you should always deny them that, because they aren't a LEA, they're the fucking MAFIAA.
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  #7   Add freeRadical to your ignore list  
Old 2008-02-10, 07:38
freeRadical freeRadical is offline
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16th Century Japan
Default Re: unprotected wifi

Quote:
Originally Posted by oddballz194 View Post
In the US, the RIAA and MPAA have a habit of dropping cases involving unprotected wireless APs because they don't want to go through the expensive courtroom process and have to pay the lawyers of their opponents.

It's quite hard for them to extract money from someone for a legal tort (such as copyright infringement) unless they can prove that specific person was really involved.

Of course, they can always ask for a subpoena and forensic examination of your computer even if you have an open AP...
This. But AFAIK, the internet is the FBI's jurisdiction and if they wanted to really pursue it, they would have to go through them. But the upside is, the FBI is getting real sick of hunting down kids that download music illegal. They've got better things to do. That's why they charge 200,000 dollars to even look at a case.
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  #8   Add Issue313 to your ignore list  
Old 2008-02-10, 13:11
Issue313 Issue313 is offline
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Ireland
Default Re: unprotected wifi

According to laws in Europe and America, such as the DMCA, as well as English common law, you aren't liable for incidental or unauthorised use of network resourses for anything.


Quote:
said Chris Castle, a copyright attorney and longtime music industry executive.

Castle said the Web makes it simple to hide. Proving who was sitting at a computer at any given time is very difficult for copyright owners. What is precedent-setting about this case is that the jury decided it doesn't matter who was sharing music on Thomas' computer.

"The answer that the court gave was 'It's your account, you're responsible,'" Castle said. "'It's your screen name. You pay the bills. It's in your house. You are on the hook for it.'"
^^^ Bullshit.
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  #9   Add oddballz194 to your ignore list  
Old 2008-02-10, 17:47
oddballz194 oddballz194 is offline
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Mental Ward #173
Default Re: unprotected wifi

Quote:
Originally Posted by Prometheum View Post
...And you should always deny them that, because they aren't a LEA, they're the fucking MAFIAA.
You can't deny them a subpoena; that's the job of a judge. Chances are, if they look like they might be able to prove something if they examine your drive, their request for a subpoena will be granted. But take heart -- this is expensive and it's something else that they're not likely to do unless they think you're involved in large-scale commercial infringement.
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  #10   Add Prometheum to your ignore list  
Old 2008-02-11, 02:37
Prometheum Prometheum is offline
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Default Re: unprotected wifi

Quote:
Originally Posted by oddballz194 View Post
You can't deny them a subpoena; that's the job of a judge. Chances are, if they look like they might be able to prove something if they examine your drive, their request for a subpoena will be granted. But take heart -- this is expensive and it's something else that they're not likely to do unless they think you're involved in large-scale commercial infringement.
They won't subpoena, they'll just send you a letter asking for shit. If they subpoena do what you have to, but if they just wave around badges and wear jackets, kick them the fuck out.

RIAA agents have impersonated feds before, and they routinely blanket suspected areas with "send us 3000 dollars and we won't sue you" letters. They do a lot with the assumption you'll cooperate. Don't.
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This thread continued for 2 pages in the real archive, 12 posts total - only page 1 survived here.
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